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Utah Mine: What happened to the oxygen?

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piedmont Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 02:31 PM
Original message
Utah Mine: What happened to the oxygen?
Reading the MSNBC article on the Utah mine situation, I came across this bit of information that raised my curiosity:
"When the drill was raised a few feet to clear it from debris, the oxygen readings fell to just over 7 percent — too low to sustain life — and have remained there, said Richard Stickler, head of the Mine Safety and Health Administration.

There was no sign of carbon dioxide to indicate that people below were exhaling."

So, the oxygen level is 7% instead of atmospheric 21%. And apparently the CO2 is still around its normal 1% or less. So what replaced the oxygen? Looks to me like the only thing that makes sense is methane, which they haven't mentioned.
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HysteryDiagnosis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 02:39 PM
Response to Original message
1. I have to wonder why oxygen generating cannisters like the ones that
brought the jet down in the glades every couple hundred feet or so in a mine. One has to wonder why precautions such as this are not the standard. They could even be set up wireless so a person could activate them if they couldn't be reached, or if a person(s) were incapacitated.
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Wilber_Stool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #1
11. This is what they all should have.
But it is completely useless in most circumstances:

Once donned, the Life-Saver 60 SCSR operates as a closed-circuit breathing apparatus, generating its own oxygen. Oxygen is released from two chemicals within the capsule. The first and immediate source of oxygen is generated by a chlorate candle which is activated automatically when the breathing bag is extended. Up to 10 liters of oxygen inflate the breathing bag in anticipation of the wearer's first inhalation. The second source of oxygen is potassium superoxide (KO2). Both carbon dioxide and moisture exhaled by the wearer into the breathing tube react with the KO2 to generate oxygen.

http://www.coaleducation.org/technology/chapter1/life.htm

Buy the way, the atmosphere is 23% oxygen.
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 02:41 PM
Response to Original message
2. Really, what did happen. Yesterday's report was so rosy. Now you're
saying that there isn't as much oxygen in the mine as they thought. Who gave yesterday's report? Oh, that would be Robert Murray, wouldn't it?

<snip>

US federal mining inspectors have issued 325 citations for alleged safety violations at the mine since January 2004. Of those, 116 were considered "significant and substantial" and likely to cause injury.

However, some experts have said the number of citations is not unusual.

Three construction workers died in a mine accident in southern Indiana on Friday.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/6941904.stm
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Stargazer99 Donating Member (943 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. Legalized Murder- how many violations does it take?
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acmavm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. Remember the Sago mining disaster? That mine owner was a miserable
greedy bastard but that mine had FEWER safety violations than this one did...

<snip>

In the past two years, the mine was cited 273 times for safety violations, of which about a third were classified as "significant and substantial," according to documents compiled by the Labor Department's Mine Safety and Health Administration (MSHA). Many were for problems that could contribute to accidental explosions or the collapse of mine tunnels, records show.

In addition, 16 violations logged in the past eight months were listed as "unwarrantable failures," a designation reserved for serious safety infractions for which the operator had either already been warned, or which showed "indifference or extreme lack of care," said Tony Oppegard, a former counsel to MSHA.

"That is a very high number, and it is usually indicative of a very poor safety record," Oppegard said.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/03/AR2006010301433.html



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TheMadMonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 12:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
7. Depends on the nature of the violations.
I could have probably matched that number when I first started work at my current job. Not because of management perfidity, but the cowboy who preceded me in the job. Unsecured and unlabeled chemicals by the dozen. Broken and damaged tools. An old 24 foot step ladder still in use (8 ft is now legal max). Unsecured light fixtures.

And I work in a ruddy basketball stadium, not a kilometer underground.

My guess is that a lot of those violations (if the number is indeed not unusual) are down to individuals not wearing safety gear properly (or at all) and shortcuts, like not setting out barriers to do a "small job". Management might contribute by not cracking down on such violations, but ultimately it's the workers who have to make the decision to do whatever it is that management lets them get away with.

Individual violations of safety regulations are not the problem that systematic violation is, and if there was any hint that those violations reported had been systematic, the crucifixions would have already begun.


I'd put it down to the risky (but apparently legal) practice of removing support columns (columns of coal left behind to support the hanging wall) while working a seam, to get the last few tons of coal from a gallery, which I believe was reported earlier.

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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. Murray has said something different every day.
The only thread of consistency is his bogus earthquake excuse.

I have no doubt that the 'just released' new coal ads were sent to MSM with instructions.
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Kool Kitty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 12:34 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. Funny you should mention the coal ads.
I have been watching CNN and they have been reporting about the Utah mine disaster. What was the first commercial at the break? An ad for coal and why we need it so desperately. I was thinking, hmmmm, what a coincidence. Or not.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Kharmatrain and I were
discussing this on another thread.
What really pisses me off is all the god and prayer talk from the owner and MSM. It is too convenient to ignore all the safety violations and scream about god's will. If I am a drunk driver who causes the death of some family, their relatives may well pray, but they will demand justice.
Robert Murray should be taken away in chains. This is manslaughter.
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-11-07 03:23 PM
Response to Original message
4. Murray made a statement that he and only he is going to give information.
He sent a bunch of mine rescue teams away. At least CNN reported this.
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-12-07 08:06 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. They must not be allowed to see the evidence
of his crime.
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