so if you're in favor of a draft,

you shouLd head right down to the recruiter's office? now, how does that work?

i understand saying it to a chickenhawk war supporter, but it's not even cLose to the same circumstance.

or that anyone who supports a draft, doesn't have to worry about their ass, or that of their kids, grandkids, etc.

do i have that right?

:rofl:

and should be held prior to going to war. Not in the typical "a draft would end the war" meme.

Seriously - if the country does not believe that a military action is not important enough for everyone to support (via draft) than that military action should not be pursued.

My father left college to join the Army Air Corps, just prior to when the draft was instituted. The cause was seen as that important and universal. He served in the Pacific.

He was also dead set against Vietnam, and the first Gulf War (he would have been against the current war in Iraq, though I am not sure where he would have stood per Afghanistan). What does he have to do with it? He always served as a reminder for me - as to the seriousness of war (hell) - and that the whole country should be in active support if action is taken.

I think the conversation now - is not the same conversation as now it is what the heck do we do while our military is breaking... but drafting folks into service of a war that is not popular and does not have public support - is crazy. However, while folks didn't want to talk about it before the IWR, or before the invasion - that is exactly when we SHOULD have had a serious national conversation about it - and similutaneously about the decision to go to war at all.

I think that our congress would have rubber stamped a draft along with a war of aggression back in 2002.

folks KNOW they would lose elections -thus it isn't something that they would have rubberstamped even at a time when they were rolling over for bushco.

I see it completely differently.

A debate over the draft in 2002 would have been the last thing to get rubber-stamped if only because congress would be putting the behinds of too many civilians on the line for the firs time.

I'd wager that a debate over the draft was avoided by the Republics like the plague.

and quite brutally honest, tried to join after 9.11, back up, and in case you have to wonder

A DRAFT WILL BE THE ONLY THING TO WAKE THE YOUTH UP... I am sorry to break this one to you, but nothing else will pry them away from Heroes, or Flash Gordon, or whatever happens to be on Idol tonight.

I think that would wake them up too, and it would be cheaper, and it wouldn't result in our killing people outside our own national boundaries.

from the 360 that does not involve a draft, and that will work

From the youth I have spoken, the ONLY thing that will get their attention IS a draft, and them being at risk of BEING DRAFTED

is your objective, then there are much cheaper ways to go about doing that.

comming out and protesting, they don't care. They really don't

And we need the youth to start caring

That, from their own admision, will get their attention

Sorry if you have not noticed this, but going to demonstrations, OUTSIDE war vets, you can count the young people with the fingers of ONE hand

They also are overtly cynical and don't believe they can make a difference, or change anything, or for matter have any national identity

You tell me, if you can find a way to wake them up that does NOT involve life and limb, I'm all ears

is by killing them. Got it.


Cheers.

they just don't care

Look, the problem is we do NOT have a sense of nationhood any longer

That is your fist step.

The draft is not ideal, I'd rather do national INTERNAL service, but something has to be done to get these kids to care. If they don't, kiss a lot of this country good bye

I am possitive you are against any form of service... and I mean that. That is your prerogative

You have not given me any non draft options to wake them up. I will give you mine NATIONAL SERVICE, INTERNAL NATIONAL SERVICE, such as the WPA.

Sure I did: summary execution. Much cheaper and as a bonus we don't kill foreigners.

I thought you were a snark

So you have no problem with the economic draft and are wholly against any national service, such as the WPA

I see

because you think they spend too much time on xbox 360 cutting each other up with virtual chain saws. You can pretend that a draft would be 'national service' or any other bullshit you want to pretend it will be, but what it will be is you and others like you taking my children at gunpoint and forcing them to fight and die in wars they didn't start and have no interest in fighting. Go kill your own children and leave mine out of your mess.

Self delete.

Long day and the post was not directed at me, so I'm outta here...

not yet,

But that will get your children away from the XBox and finally engaged

Is this a problem with you? Getting the youth engaged?

and leave my children the heck out of your nightmare. Yes it is a problem with me.

PERIOD

And from nany of these kids the only thing that will get their damn attention away from the 360 IS A DAMN DRAFT

Pay attention...

I agree. Youthful & trendy cynicism has almost destroyed the national conceptualization of the Hope that Dr. King so often spoke of.

Almost as if Dr. Leary's bumper-sticker was read backwards to: Tune out, Turn out, and Drop In.

But, hey! At least they look cool doing it... :sarcasm:

I suppose that explains it. :eyes:

:puke:

For example if you were a draftee on the eastern front in WWII, pretty much you were dead, especially if you happened to be German. But by all means if you want to put your kids into the death lottery, go for it. Just don't try and take my kids with you.

It took years of protests and tens of thousands of deaths before public opinion finally brought an end to the Vietnamwar.

A draft is the only way the necons would have enough fodder for their world-domination fantasies. A draft is the last thing we need, if the aim is to bring about peace.

that is why they have avoided one (beyond the economic draft that seems to be fine for many people here since they volunteered, doncha know?)

They know that a real threat to the children of the middle classes and even the upper crusties will lead to all kinds of disruptions that they don't care for

This is why they have avoided one... mind you, passing one on 9.12 would have been easy politically, and if the war was that important, justifiable

The actions of the neocons have proven that the war is not that important... but the only way you will get the disengaged to pay attention is to make it matter to them

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

... and just going with the first thing that pops into their small heads, no matter how little sense it makes.

Then you should go on to say:

"If you're really against your duly represntative government killing people in your name and with your money and with your tacit approval, you should FILL-IN-BLANK..."

I do support dialog over the possibility of one and the need for one if we're to be a warring nation. It takes more than money to feed a war machine, it also takes warm bodies.

Just wanted to get that on record here someplace.

to represent them in the armed forces of the United States" or something to that effect. So to me, anyone who supports the draft supports the war because you chose to send people to represent you to possibly fight and die in the war.

If you were really against the war you would be against a draft as many of my friends and neighbors were back then.

Indeed. My lovely draft board ... at the time that the more affluent 40% had little to worry about.

Well, we've "improved" things ... since it's now the more affluent 80% with little to worry about. Gotta love being part of the privileged folks.
:eyes:

No deferments for young Dick Cheney's.

Flush Limbaugh's get to serve even with the ass boils.

But NO DRAFT to support Chicken Dick's oil wars.

Only a system begun during peacetime.

And it would be involuntary servitude -- unless you made it voluntary.

I'm sick of people thinking of a draft as some sort of political ploy. Hey draft-mongers: a draft means that more kids will be killed!

to know that if they did back it they would be kicked out of office.

I do favor a draft - with no deferments! Whenever our country goes to war, ALL socioeconomic classes should be expected to participate and provide substantive support. I totally agree with Rangel's viewpoint. I believe that our leaders would not jump headlong into an unnecessary war if they knew their children, grandchildren may get killed. A draft, IMHO, would cause thinking at a much deeper level.

It's as simple as that.

I support the forced induction of all fighting age children of all Members of Congress and the children of all Senate-approved appointees of the Executive Branch.

I support the "drafting" of all defense-industry executives, seizing all income above that of a buck private in times of war, just as Smedley Butler suggested.

In cases where war is fought on false pretenses, I support the draft of all involved policymakers and sympathetic media figureheads into an unarmed "peace corps" with the job of going unarmed and un-escorted into the most war-torn districts of the illegally invaded nation and trying to broker peace.

That's the kind of draft I'd support.