No longer an acceptable topic for DU discussion?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said on Wednesday she believed Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez was destroying his country economically and politically.Venezuela's Congress on January 31 granted Chavez powers to rule by decree for 18 months as he tries to force through nationalizations key to his self-styled leftist revolution.

"I believe there is an assault on democracy in Venezuela and I believe that there are significant human rights issues in Venezuela," Rice told lawmakers at a congressional hearing. "I do believe that the president of Venezuela is really, really destroying his own country, economically, politically."

Venezuela is the fourth largest oil exporter to the United States and Washington, which has been at odds with Chavez for years, has criticized his plans to nationalize his country's oil and utility assets.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070207/pl_nm/venezuela_usa_rice_dc_2




......

note the different takes on reality between the Reuters story, and the following ("conveniently" omitting the highlighted passages below....I wonder why), thanks to Judi Lynn, via Say_What:


Week of Feb. 08 to Feb. 14, 2007

Why Hugo Chávez was given more authority

By Maria Páez Victor, PhD.

This week the parliament of Venezuela gave President Hugo Chávez the authority to pass laws by decree for the next 18 months on 10 issues of domestic importance. This type of power has a time limit and an issue limit and is specifically allowed by Article 203 of the Venezuelan constitution.

It is not the first time President Chávez has been allowed this prerogative. Twice before he was given such powers, according to this constitutional provision, and he carried out the duties allowed to him by the parliament without any misstep or abuse of power.

A close look at Venezuelan history shows that this power, also enshrined in the past constitution, was given to presidents Rómulo Betancourt (1959) Carlos Andrés Pérez (1974), Jaime Lusinchi (1984) and Ramon Jose Velázquez (1993) to carry out decisions related to finance, external debt and creation of new state institutions among others. However, since these presidents were in friendly terms with the White House, there was no decrying of an erosion of Venezuelan democracy then.

In fact, during the past 40 years, and during previous presidential terms, glaring abuses of human rights have been committed in the country but not one word of protest or concern was uttered by Washington.
(snip/...)

http://www.progresoweekly.com/index.php?progreso=Maria_...

Thanks to DU'er Say_What for sharing this material.

STFU Condi.

.

I have always maintained that Hugo is a good guy, only trying to protect his beloved country and it's people, hell they voted him in with a huge margin.......

ww

than I.

simple juxtapositions like the above, though, are so glaring, yet so completely ignored by M$M in the US, and their talking points parroted by so many commophobes here at DU, that they demand discussion, so that the other side gets at least a chance at being heard.

Chavez is no saint, but, for god's sake, all you need to do is read the insanely ironic quotes by psycotic/congenital mendaciomaniacs like Rice and her corporate masters, would seem to make me take everything said against Chavez with several multigrains of salt.

Do they EVER tell the truth?

I still back Hugo Chavez. If it weren't for him, nothing would be stopping the gringo-backed drive to austerity and misery throughout the Americas.

There is NO non-reactionary case for being an anti-chavista. If you are, you're on the side of the rich and you know it.

Like anyone cares what butcher Rice has to say.

I've never heard of that name. So if I don't like him all that much that means I'm on the side of the rich?

Just want to be clear here.

If Chavez is overthrown, the poor of the Americas lose all hope forever.

There's nothing he's done that's worth that.

Dislike him, fine, but don't give aid and comfort to the coup planners.

If you're not rich, at this point Hugo is all you've got. "Western-style democracy" only works for the priveleged.

If you dont' "like" his uniforms, or his accent, well I wouldn't call that anything more than a matter of taste.

If you don't like his native heritage I would call that leaning racist

If you don't like his democratic socialism you are, in that particular instance, and probably others if you search your inner neo-liberal soul, on common ground with the fascisti.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

My comments were about Condi and about those who grumble about Hugo's mythical "anti-democratic" tendencies.

Those people never cared about democracy BEFORE Chavez came along.

I actually like what you've said here.

Are you and I clear now?

didn't mean to sound defensive.

I just don't get the wildly inaccurate tales woven about Chavez here, or all places, when there's ample evidence to dispute the most outrageous, unsupported BS being spouted about him, like this:

1- Anybody who will not participate in your cult/idolatry of Saints Hugo/Fidel/Che/AMLO must be demonized. Notice, if I attack HUGO, you personally attack ME (not my beliefs) with name-calling as in your o.p., OR "DLC/CORPORATIST".

2- For the record, it is UNDEMOCRATIC to participate in royalty-love, personality CULTISM, placing a HUMAN in a SUPERhuman position. And Venezuela (and Iraq, for that matter) are perfectly FINE WITH ME if they want to "elect" a fucking asshole for life. Fine with me. If I were Venezuelan I would GET THE FUCK OUT. Life is too short to spend it under the thrall of a JERKOFF A-HOLE!!1

Hugo and his -istas have a POWERful totalitarian bent. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck---------IT'S A DAMNED DUCK!!1

All it had was another picture of your Hieronymous Bosch action figures(and btw, where can I order those?)and a question about whether or not I was calling YOU anti-chavista. What the freak where Skinner and the boys so worried about?

because it linked to the locked thread.

I just wanted you to see the thread itself; did you get a chance? check your PMs

was right on with his talk about the Devil during his speach at the UN...... He hit the nail right on the head IMHO....

ww

we all know bush likes to fart and apparently Hugo does too.

:)

Viva Chavez!

:D

:rofl:

or, maybe something with Neil's herpes-infested carapace?

:loveya: see PM. :D

"... Neil's herpes-infested carapace?" :rofl:

check your PMs...I have some Terri for you, as well

oh yeah....have you done any St. Rudy yet?

if so, please put it/them up here, or let me know where I can vid.

thx

Like the Saudi fucking royals don't rule by decree. Chavez is going to nationalize the oil--or at least force the foreign oil companies to renegotiate the terms of their leases. For that he's considered a commie dictator by the Bush administration. The lesson here is, whatever Bushco tells you, the opposite is closer to the truth.

standard.
It shows that democracy is not in the real interest Condi is expressing, indeed its anathema, to Bush fascism.

I don't know the history so I can't comment onthat. I get the point of the OP but without a helpful history of what had been going on in Venezuela, we just don't know.

I will say that Condeleeza Rice has her nerve talking to Venezuela about their democacy!

the specific post I linked? where did I call you ignorant? you should choose your words more carefully

why are you so defensive about not knowing something?

just curious

to swiftly and exactly rid his country of the corrupt corporations who have exploited its citizens and resources for decades. of course big money is going to cry "dictator". wa wa wa. let us watch this all unfold, then judge. after all, it's none of our business.

I'm disgusted by these people here at DU who repeat BushCo's anti Chavez lies, with their own bran of neocon republican fascist propaganda! Chavez exposes Bush's imperialism for what it is and these idiots just watch the corporate news media, believe every lying word spouted by Bush and the media...And then they shoot off their ignorant mouth's here at DU uttering the same shit and arguments made by the complicit corporate media and these same wars for profit imperialist, like BushCo!

Bush is a habitual liar, a killer, who despises the poor, allows corporations more rights than individuals, believes in no government regulations or restrictions including pollution laws for corporations...Bush is also a war-monger, a true imperialist, a true fascist, torturer of people, a rich elitist, a dumb stupid arrogant man, a regressive, an intolerant asshole. Bush never takes the correct position on anything, it's always & only his agenda helping the wealthy and their corporations...Bush's whole republican ideology is flawed and fucked.

Yet people agree with Bush about Chavez, his opposite....Why? When they really don't know shit about Chavez, except what the same corporate media tells them about Chavez, and what to think about Chavez....

These are the truly ignorant!

Cheney's not interested in Darfur - not enough oil.

and VENEZUELA with THE UNITED STATES.

that made in the second paragraph of the Reuters story.

Yep.

If only the TV people were so clever. Especially anti-chavez pit bull Lou Dobbs.

So Venezuela has invaded which country recently?

I thought perhaps you meant they were the same. Instead it seems you meant that everything kindofnasty said of chavez is actually applicable to dumbass. Got it. Good point.

Nuttin' fancy.

that was locked! Kind of funny when I think about it...the zealous comments are always about 'free-speech', and 'dictatorships'...

Nobody could have imagined airplanes flying into DU threads, could they?

actually I'm getting pretty good at anticipating the crash...I get to the crash-site early enough to view some of the carnage. Lately I've had my fill, so I'm trying to stay low.. :hi:

This is basically a repost of another thread that was locked for being flamebait.

are any topics that have been locked for flaming not eligible to be discussed ever again?

just curious

by saying they're just like Condi. That may be the difference.

posts "insulting" DUers who drew the obvious analogy between Condi's words and those of the who maintain their disaffection for Chavez, and showed such on that thread with unsupported vitriol.

anybody who thinks I'm mischaracterizing that thread myself can have me PM the link to it...I saved it.

judge for yourself who was doing the balance of flaming on that thread

" Finally the anti-Chavez crowd at DU has found a kindred spirit "

"It's "Kindasleazy" Rice! "

That alone is what got the thing locked.

titles/comeons, that lasted for hundreds of posts?

not buying that

the ratio of antichavez insults was far higher than the other way around

like I said, all one has to do is read the thread; it's quite obvious

Why else was it locked?

I don't agree with your answer, based on the myriad other threads with similarly provacative openings.

I hope this one stays around, because the info in the OP, regarding previous actions by Chavez predecessors hasn't been discussed before, and shoots a big hole in the argument that Chavez is headed inexorably towards dictatorship, not to mention the clearly delusional (and unsupported, to be kind) assertions that he's already there.

easily hurt. :eyes: :eyes:

It is a typical Right-Wing strategy (Gingrich started this shit) to whine about being insulted, but invariably we find that the insult, if it was indeed felt and not faked, is that of an ignorant jackass that misunderstood what he read!

The whole purpose of all of this whining is to simply shut out the truth. In that case it was showing a common link between Condi's stand on Venezuela and some here at DU. THAT is the fact, uncomfortable as it may be, presented.

"You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means."

lol

/oops

Kindasleazy Rice.

They both hate Chavez! :bounce:

Congress has passed statutes in the past 10 years or so purporting to cut off judicial review of certain questions, giving complete and total dictatorial power to the executive branch. Of course that is still challenged in the courts.

This parliament does not seem to be representing the people very well. Can their courts overturn it? It's just not healthy, good guy or no. I wouldn't want to live in a government where the executive had no limits on his power, even if he were a "good guy."

"If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier...just as long as I'm the dictator''

did you read the bolded section of the OP?

which country hand-counted fifty five percent of all ballots cast in their last presidential election?

I was pointing to the legal steps taken here, too, but they are piecemeal. Still, maybe more insidious.

But if the Venezuelans have voted that power to their leaders, it seems dangerous. Then they are a smaller country, so they can perhaps get out of it easier. Still, they could give it to the wrong person someday. Some Venezuelan version of Bush.

and there certainly appears to be a cult of Chavez in Venezuela, as well as at DU, according to many kneejerkers who have their own diametric animus.

but considering the CENTURY-plus long history of US active intervention throughout the world in the affairs of governments who take action on behalf of their own people against the global corporatists who would seize any vulnerable country's assets as their own, does anyboy blame Chavez for taking the actions that he has?

and always remember, political democracy begins with economic democracy

Venezuela seems to be working in that direction, and we here in the United States are clearly working in the opposite

btw, the Chinese middle class, if not already so, will very soon be larger than that of the US

remember this?

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/haha_america.jsp?channelKeyword=channel_political_parodies

the discussion???

let's all be friends on this thread

btw, did you see that ha ha ha America video when it was here awhile ago?

I just reposted it above

http://www.atomfilms.com/film/haha_america.jsp?channelKeyword=channel_political_parodies

Mod call out.