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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:06 PM
Original message
DUers who aren't in the U.S. - re Christian fundie nutjobs
I figure there must be some in other countries, but is this mainly a U.S. thing? Do fundamentalist Christians have any influence anywhere else?
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Art_from_Ark Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
1. Not here in Japan
Japan had a bitter lesson some 60+ years ago about getting too wrapped up in a religion.
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lvx35 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. I'm here in the US, but the answer I presume is yes.
A lot of fundamentalist evangelical groups run vast overseas missions in developing countries, and also British, Canadian and Australian culture is just so similar to our own.
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Az Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. There are elements in other nations
But as I understand it there is nothing approaching the level we have here in the US. I have known people that were quite shocked at how god soaked our nation is.
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enid602 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:18 PM
Response to Original message
4. yes
I'm in the US, but I know from frequest travels that Mormons and other groups are trying to infiltrate Argentina, and such groups are VERY much present (and having success) in Brazil.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Do they have influence laws, etc?
If the culture is more conservative than that in the U.S., do they have less to complain about?
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:20 PM
Response to Original message
6. They're here in Canada - they just don't run the place
We tend to swiftly banish any fundie nutjobs before they get into public office.

We're funny that way.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:21 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. How do you do it?
We need to know down here!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #8
17. They just never make it out of nomination meetings
We have a long history of avoiding overtly religious leaders. My theory is that we had a lot of trouble with the Feenians/Orangemen and other Irish religious spats back in the 1800's.

And a beloved and respected Irishman MP(Darcy McGee)was shot in cold blood on the streets of Ottawa.

From then on, we kept religion (or at least open proselytizers) out of office. And we don't like people importing their religious problems here, either.

And besides, we are NOT a churchgoing people. About 75% of us don't belong to any church. And we've become such a multicultural society, that to espouse only one religion seems bizarre.

Separation of Church and State is a bedrock principle that virtually EVERYONE here agrees with.
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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:21 PM
Response to Original message
7. Well, we'd appreciate it if Russia kept some of it's crazyass fundamentalpatients.
I don't know if they still have any there, because there are so fucking many here I assume they must be running out. :grr:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Russians who are fundamentalists go where?
Hard to imagine a Russian fundie nutjob, but would they find Russia to be a comfortable place to be?

Are they a reaction against years of enforced atheism?
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:35 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. A lot of them in Sacramento.
Anti-gay and racist, to boot.
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 01:50 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. Yes, and also in
southern Placer County. That whole area is a fundie assylum.
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Lydia Leftcoast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
16. During the 1970s and 1980s, when Soviet Jews were emigrating
there was a less-publicized emigration of Soviet Pentecostals. I briefly attended a church in Portland (not Pentecostal) that sponsored a family of them as refugees.

I'm not sure how anyone got to be a Pentecostal in the first place over there, since proselytizing was illegal, but there were enough for a sizable wave of emigrants.

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:25 AM
Response to Reply #9
23. We've got a load of 'em here around Sacramento
:shrug:

Mostly pentacostals of one sort or another, often with some "deliverance" thrown in (in this case deliverance is the idea that demon possession causes every bad human fate from halitosis on up so prayers are needed to keep the demons out.)

I don't mind them having their own sort of crazy, but they get violent and cause problems, usually related to their high degree of homophobia.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #23
36. Do they mix and mingle with the local fundies of the American variety?
Sounds like a fun group. :sarcasm:

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LeftyMom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:52 PM
Response to Reply #36
53. Not so much
:shrug:

Of course, we don't have a lot of native fundies, and what we do tend to abscond for the burbs or nearby states.
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spindoctor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
10. Fundamentalism is big business and therefore universal
They would have no influence in the US if the Republicans could win an election without them.

For shits and giggles, here's Australia's take on tv evangelists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=15u6fHkICxc
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #10
19. excellent humor
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:55 AM
Response to Reply #10
37. LOL and the fundie shows are imported from the US!
:rofl:

Do laundry prayerfully! :rofl:
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:34 PM
Response to Original message
11. For some reason, Australia has more than they deserve.
And some of the eastern European former Soviet Union countries have become fundy-obsessed too. In their case I think it's a very short pendulum sort of effect...???
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Blashyrkh Donating Member (816 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:51 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. As an Australian, I can confirm.
Our last election saw the creation of the "Family First Party" (read Right Wing Christian Conservative Party). There is certainly an increase in the amount of religion used corporately/politically. Our government takes its order from your government, so I'm not at all suprised this crap is gaining prominence here.


I think its part of the propaganda designed to split the world into Christians (White people) & Muslims (brown people). It's just another label people can hide behind.
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karlrschneider Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. Just out of curiosity have you ever heard of Laurie Appleton?
No matter either way, it's a 'thing' with me. :D

I was in Oz only once, way back in ... 1975 I think, and I love your country. I actually considered emigrating there at one point after then but it just didn't happen....
:-)
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Archae Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:46 AM
Response to Reply #22
24. HooooBOY! Laurie the Mad Creationist!
I remember him all too well. :crazy:
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JHB Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 06:14 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. No mystery there...
...Australia speaks English. American evangelists can just re-edit their materials for the Australian "mark(et)" (if they bother changing them that much), and flood every nook and cranny they can get access.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:56 AM
Response to Reply #11
38. That's what I was thinking
Years of state enforced atheism suddenly let loose.

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BobTheSubgenius Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:47 PM
Response to Original message
13. I live in Canada,
and I work for one. It's kind of hysterical, actually.

And, in fairness, he's not exactly *Rushdoonie nuts*; he's *Creflo Dollar* nuts. Sort of a distinction, anyway.

That's about the only exposure I have to the species. We don't go in for that sort of thing around here.
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:06 AM
Response to Reply #13
18. Hey, BobTheSubgenius, welcome to DU!
:toast:
:hi:
Nice to see another Canadian on board.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:57 AM
Response to Reply #13
39. What is Rushdoonie and what is Creflo Dollar?
Welcome to DU! :hi:
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B3Nut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #39
51. Both are figures in Fundamentalism, though doctrinally very different
R.J. Rushdoony is the generally-acknowledged father of Reconstructionism, a virulent and militant strain of Reformed (Calvinistic) Christianity which seeks to replace secular society with laws based on the Ten Commandments and Old Testament law. The movement also goes by the name of Theonomy or Theonomic Reconstructionism. Theonomists advocate the death penalty for homosexuals among other things. Google these guys...and pour yourself a really stiff drink. You're going to need it.

Creflo Dollar is a "name-it-and-claim-it" prosperity preacher from Atlanta. Aside from bilking people out of their dollars, he's mostly harmless. Followers of Rushdoony would probably like to sentence Dollar to death for heresy, if the truth were told...fundies eating each other! Bon appetit, guys! :D

Todd in Cheesecurdistan
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-20-07 11:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. Nein, und ich wohne in Österreich. Sehr wenig Einfluss
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:08 AM
Response to Reply #15
20. Wo in Österreich?
Ich habe Freunden von Oberoesterreich.
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wake.up.america Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 12:20 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Nicht weit von Innsbruck, ungefähr 30 km entfernt
Edited on Tue Aug-21-07 12:22 AM by wake.up.america
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coffeenap Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:37 AM
Response to Reply #21
48. Hey--my family and I were just there this week--GREETINGS! nt
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 01:51 AM
Response to Original message
26. I can honestly say I've never met one "fundie" in all of the years I've lived here. (nt)
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 07:58 AM
Response to Reply #26
40. Where is "here"?
:hi:
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Heidi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #40
47. Southern Switzerland.
:hi:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #47
49. Must be a wonderful place to live!
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GeniusLib Donating Member (117 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 01:56 AM
Response to Original message
27. Poland and Mexico
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DemocratSinceBirth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
28. How About Countries Under The Nominal Control Of The Catholic Church?
I believe divorce* and abortion is illegal* in Ireland...I know it is in the Phillipines...


*It is extremely difficult to get either a divorce or abortion in Ireland...
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #28
41. I thought the Irish recently liberalized enough to allow for divorce
Abortion, maybe not.

But that's long term culture, so I bet they even have some of their own home grown fundie nutjobs - who have a state that is more cooperative. Maybe the US fundie missionaries get their cue from there that the US ought to be similar.
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BlooInBloo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 02:06 AM
Response to Original message
29. They're crazy the world 'round - being in the US just makes them a little bit stupider to boot.
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Truthiness Inspector Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 02:11 AM
Response to Original message
30. Have you ever left the US?
If so you would realize how fundamentally retarded your question is, for God's sake.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #30
43. Get up on the wrong side of the bed this morning?
Take your meds, for God's sake.
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 03:03 AM
Response to Original message
31. Much less in the UK than the US...
The partial exception is Northern Ireland, where the Catholic Church has a lot of influence, and, for example, abortion is still illegal under most circumstances. Also, the Troubles and resulting terrorism were based on sectarian conflict between Catholics and Protestants, though this is a rather different matter from fundie influence.

Ironically, even though we don't have official separation of church and state and America does, there seems to be much less intrusion of religion into politics in the UK than the USA. We do have individual politicians who might be described as Christian Right, but it's not a big movement like in the USA. For one thing, there are far fewer regular churchgoers here; for another, the Church of England in its present form is not associated with strongly right-wing views (the current Archbishop of Canterbury is fairly liberal, though some bishops are more conservative).
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mr blur Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 04:50 AM
Response to Reply #31
32. I'd second that
We tend to think that we elect people to do what we want not what their invisible friend wants. Having said that, there are whackjobs here, of course, but they have little political or social influence.

I think there's very little to be gained here by appealing to religious beliefs - most people, I'd say, don't have any and couldn't care less what you believe in unless you're an out-and-out crazy in which case you're a figure of scorn rather than admiration.

Very few people here would ever ask you what church you went to or, indeed, if you go at all.
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muriel_volestrangler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 05:52 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. The religious nutjobs in Northern Ireland are mainly on the Protestant side
Indeed, the current First Minister has a web page so extreme that I hesitate to link to it from DU - it could be counted as hate speech. So, with the caveat that this may offend any Catholics, and this is just to show what an extremist Paisley is in his religious views:

the home page of the European Institute of Protestant Studies. The Institute's purpose is to expound the Bible, expose the Papacy, and to promote, defend and maintain Bible Protestantism in Europe and further afield
...
5 Reasons Why Catholic is not Christian
...
An exposure of the Vatican conspiracy to overthrow civil government from the twelfth century to the present.

http://www.ianpaisley.org/main.asp


etc.

And it's real power he has, as First Minister. Sinn Fein (and the SDLP, for that matter) are republican/nationalist, rather than 'Catholic' - their basis is political, not religious. But Paisley really is a fundamentalist Protestant, who'd like a theocracy:

The past year was characterised by the increase of man’s rebellion against God. The flagrant and unceasing violation of God’s commandments can only bear fruit in our national life, which will be most deadly to its national health and prosperity. The refusal of the Prime Minister to call a national day of prayer was an ill omen. The national day of prayer was rejected because praying to the one true and only Triune God was objected to by those who worship the gods of their own making and not of the true God’s own divine revealing. The only true God can only be known because He has revealed Himself to us in the Bible.
...
Clones will be without any conscience or any soul. Proud man playing God! The black clouds of the threat of worldwide war are gathering speedily, and who can say what the end will be!

We are told we must put our faith in the UNO and its will must be international, law in the future. A world ruled by the UNO is a recipe for world destruction. The UNO has never achieved peace anywhere it has interfered amongst the nations. Congo is an example of that. Its claims are many and very loudly proclaimed, but they are baseless, dishonest and deceptive.

Meanwhile, the plague, the result of rebellion against God’s moral law, sweeps multitudes into premature graves. Parts of Africa are becoming graveyards for its millions. The appalling catastrophe of the world cannot be exaggerated!

http://www.ianpaisley.org/article.asp?ArtKey=newyear


An uplifting New Year message, eh?
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LeftishBrit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 06:11 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. You're right - they have both Protestant and Catholic influences in NI, but the Paisleyites are the
worst and have the most dire influence.

It's very difficult in the sectarian conflict to disentangle religious issues in the strict sense from political/nationalist/territorial issues. The latter have predominated for a long time. Much of the violence in and related to NI was based on tribalism, rather than fundamentalism, and I suspect that most of the terrorists on both sides could not have given a really coherent description of the differences between Catholic and Protestant doctrines. But you are right that Paisley is much more of a true fundie than most of the others, and often sounds like a cross between Pat Robertson and one of the more extreme Islamic preachers. This makes him particularly dangerous.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:05 AM
Response to Reply #34
46. I wonder if the political pressure has an effect
Like the Muslim fundie nutjobs, where there could be a political element or reason for focusing on a religion that might otherwise be moderate.
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pink-o Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #31
42. I spent 5 years in the UK during the 70s...
...and that's the first thing I noticed: not half the religious whackos that we have on our side of the pond.

Then I figured it out.

You Brits sent 'em all to us during the Jacobean period cuz they were being persecuted by sane people who didn't want them around. So the fundies came to Plymouth, burned a few witches, and for the last 4 centuries have somehow permeated the American landscape.

Thanks a lot, GB!! Next time you want to send us your religious lunatics, can't you give us the Pagans and the Druids who merely worship big rocks and get potted on Honey Mead??? Think how different our country would've been with those guys at the helm!
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
44. That's kind of the impression I got - they must exist, they just don't have
the kind of political sway they have here. It could be the longer term culture, or it could be they don't have the numbers considering the different type of electoral system.
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:03 AM
Response to Original message
45. It also varies in the US from State to State
although I have to say that I've seen more churches in CT than anywhere in Canada, and CT is nowhere near as religious as other states. People here even go to the churches.
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rucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 08:55 AM
Response to Original message
50. Every culture has extremists in one form or another. n/t
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-21-07 09:40 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. But where is it that they have such influence?
Something about the parliamentary system avoids it, maybe? On the thread DUers seem to indicate that that UK, Canada and Australia have them but don't let them get into a position of so much influence.

Whereas with our system, the Conservatives need them more to win elections (than say, Tories, etc.)
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