Why the amazing reluctance to pursue impeachment?......... The anthrax mailer is still on the loose.

Maybe there is more to this impeachment imbroglio than meets the eye.

The only person who was specifically targeted by the anthrax mailer and died due to that targeting died because there was no warning note.

All the other targets got warning notes with the anthrax letter.

I doubt it would even take a noticeable amount of anthrax spores to infect someone who got no warning.

Once anthrax symptoms have evidenced themselves your chance of survival is not all that good.

How do you protect your loved ones in such a situation?

We used to have brave people that led this country.

Now?

Not so much.

It's entirely another to sacrifice one's children.

All I want is for our Democratic representatives to do their fucking jobs.

If we leave our children a country where the constitution is null and void, why bother at all?

With no guarantee of success?


This is the way these people think:

Barbara Comstock, Monica Crowley, Frank Gaffney, Laura Ingraham and James Woolsey are some of the board members of this wonderful group Family Security Matters:

"The wisest course would have been for President Bush to use his nuclear weapons to slaughter Iraqis until they complied with his demands, or until they were all dead. Then there would be little risk or expense and no American army would be left exposed. But if he did this, his cowardly electorate would have instantly ended his term of office, if not his freedom or his life."

They are perfectly willing to slaughter millions in pursuit of their political aims.

What is a few more to them?

Hold this administration accountable.

Apparently that is too much to ask in these days.

As I've pointed out, these people are utterly ruthless and perfectly willing to advocate in public the slaughter of millions to advance their political agenda..

We need leadership right now, not a bunch of frightened wimps.

Who then is to replace them?

And do you think that the replacements will not be subtly made aware of the situation?

if you don't have the stomach, or balls, then pack it up and go home.

What was I thinking?

i'm having a difficult time understanding some reponses to this thread.

the people in the mailroom were the folks who were going to infected, not daschle and brokaw

"give me liberty or give my staffer death" doesn't have the same ring

the decision was tougher than people make it sound, there was no magic way to guarantee the poison letters would get to the "intended" person, in fact, they would almost certainly not get to a senator or a top anchor

the target had to consider that if he was brave, someone ELSE might pay with their life -- someone who didn't get a choice

You know who's responsible. Why don't you do something?

That they won't do anything because they fear for their lives?

Threats are not always directly stated, in fact they are even more ominous when simply implied.

Most Congresscritters have families..

I think that there are dark forces who are threatening to take down any opposition party whatsoever, and this is what they genuinely fear. It's one thing to risk your own life, but to risk out entire way of governing is something altogether different.

FISA, Posse Comitatus, Habeus Corpus, First Amendment, Fourth Amendment, black bag jobs..

The list is nearly endless.

they're holding the American public hostage.

As has already been stated, I believe, there is the general threat of it.

That, which pretty much is factually indisputable -only Democrats DID get mailed anthrax, and the first victims WERE the tabloid reporters that printed pictures of Bush's drunk floozy daughters, and the anthrax WAS typed as Ft Detrick Made in Amerika Anthrax - is itself a fact.

Who could look at and know these facts (there are more) and NOT feel the "generalized threat" if one stands opposed to the Imperial Family, that is?

Then there is the more direct mode of threat, the Al Capone "When it happened, I would be in Florida. It would be the prefect alibi. No one could ever pin it on me."

This, we can never know about, because if such threats were made, the victim isn't speaking up. But following this line of thinking, how could they?

Because in this case, there really is nowhere to run to. In this case, Al Capone controls the FBI and the Treasury Department, too. The Bush Mafia own, intimidate, or control the MSM which would relate the story to the people (just like they blacked out the First Attempted Wellstone Assassination in Columbia during 2000, and so many other things since).

In THAT second case, the rawest of fear would have to be overcome. Like Wellstone, you could be killed and the very organizations relied upon to find out the truth are dispatched by the Bush Mafia to cover up their own crime.

Like the victims of the Loyal Bushie Antrax Assassin, they know that inc ontrolling the FBI, ANY investigation which points to Loyal Bushies will be tanked (and yes, there are still some honest parts of the FBi and Justice that might enforce the law...and those people are being driven out as fast as they can be to make way for Loyal Bushies).

Yep, the anthrax was genuine made in the USA.

Mil Spec even..

blackmail of all sorts.

But we know for certain that anthrax has been used to intimidate Democrats and the media.

The target of the first anthrax mailing was "American Media Inc".

Could it really get more obvious?

nor safety.

Wise words from Benjamin Franklin.

Thank goodness we had people like Benjamin Franklin, or our country would have never made it to this point. If the wussies we have now had been in charge back then, we wouldn't have stood a chance.

King George "The Decider" is right here, and he owns our military.

This is not the same game, and seen that way, we're pretty much screwed. The only advantage we have is that the US is not being supported in the shadows by any other nations...or maybe we are. Regardless, if we throw these people out, and I mean all of them, I don't think we'll have to worry about a foreign nation coming in and putting back in place, the way we regularly do.

as were many of his supporters. The signers were definitely living under a cloud of threat, and none of them knew how the rebellion was going to end up. They could have all just as easily been sent to the gallows.

I agree with you though in principle that it's not the same game.

but this was not their home ground, and they were used to facing armies, not guerrilla fighters.

Our Military does not have that weakness. This is their home ground, and they are trained to hunt down people like us. The CIA has spent years developing techniques to spot people who are hiding from the Gov't, and how to torture information from them.

It's like they wargamed all of this, and they plugged all the leaks that could be plugged. Mind you, the harder you grasp the sand, the more slips through your fingers.

they were stretched very thin, and they were trying to build and hold an empire together.

I read recently that from the beginning of European colonization to the time the American Revolution happened, there had already been 14 wars on American soil, so I suppose the British army was quite familiar with the lay of the land by then.

Guess who cut his teeth there? Another George. Our forces were not green, and had commanders willing to take risks. Yes, the British had a few vets, but I seem to recall they shipped a bunch of support forces in from other places...and they didn't expect us to be getting support from France. We can thank Ben for convincing Louis XVI to help us out and get himself thrown out in the process.

Are we gonna ask Russia for guns this time?

:rofl:

God, if we only had men like Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson conducting our diplomacy now..:cry:

well being of the public at large, just have to do something because it's the right thing to do.

I'm not convinced that all of our military would march in lockstep to George Bush's orders. There are a great many, including quite a few higher up in the ranks, who do not approve of his actions.

All of them took an oath to protect and defend the Constitution, not George Bush.

I hope we never get to the point where we actually have to find out how they would react, but if we have Congress Members who will not do what they are supposed to do out of fear, it's time to find some new ones who will take steps to see that none of us have to live in fear.

but I doubt many of our military would refuse to attack us "Unpatriotic Lefties"

I know a few of these people and their wives, and they devoutly believe the best thing we could do is destroy Berkley and San Fran.

Scary. VERY scary.

I think there are a great many who are Democrats and do not approve of what's going on. Look at how many are coming back from Iraq complaining about the lack of support, the lack of planning, etc.

Our military today is not a group of happy campers. I think many of them will be glad to see the Bush Regime leave office.

But what happens if the camps are split evenly...that could get ugly.

If Congress would just get it's act together, and do their jobs, Bush and his cronies would be too busy defending themselves to stir up much new sh!t.

And it would be in the headlines, covered by the media. A missing blonde college student couldn't detract from impeachment proceedings.

as a congressman should resign!

If their children had to be there with them?

There is NO excuse for not fulfilling their duties. If for ANY reason they're unable to do so, they should resign!

And that point for many is going to be when it involves the possible murder of your children.

I agree, they should resign.

But do you then think that their replacements would not get some sort of subtle hint of the consequences should they stray too far off the reservation?

Would *you* sacrifice *your* children for the Nation and the Constitution?

Without, of course, any guarantee of success..

Once again, anyone who allows fear to take precedence over fulfilling his/her congressional duties needs to RESIGN!

But who then is going to replace them?

And would they not then get the same treatment?

I for one am heartily tired of the daily detailed reports on the amazing progress being made in finding the anthrax mailer(s).

But how could you forget about the 360 tons of hundred dollar bills missing in Iraq when the investigation has been in the news every night..

Ever see the MASH episode where a goat eats the payroll cash?

I think most people got the message.

Utterly, utterly absurd.

Perhaps you would care to state yours?

Do you deny that anthrax was sent to Congressional Democrats and media figures?

I read your reasoning. It's absurd. If you can't see why it's absurd then you're beyond help, quite frankly.

Saying something is absurd is not the same thing as showing it is absurd.

At one time the idea that the Earth was not flat was thought absurd by all right thinking people.

Now it is the flat Earthers who have the absurd idea.

Did any Republicans get an anthrax letter?

The FBI had the cultures destroyed. Why? Those cultures were like fingerprints. Why did our government drop the investigation? That's absurd!

Well, it would be very embarrassing to certain parties if the investigation were to lead in a specific direction.

The current resident has proven himself to have no compunctions in using political clout to effect the outcome of nominally non political processes.

Why not this time?

The Democrats are not being terrified by a bunch of fat pedophiles. Life is not a bad espionage movie.

Do you deny that the anthrax came from US weapons stocks?

Do you deny that the search for the anthrax mailer has come to nothing?

If I were a sociopath bent on world domination and the accumulation of as much power as possible I have outlined what I would personally do in order to stifle opposition.

Frankly, I think my scenario is all too likely and all too believable.

I'm not saying this scenario is definitely what is happening but there are a lot of things going on that don't make a lot of sense otherwise.

You are right though, it makes the case very clearly that there is/was some sort of conspiracy to intimidate those who would stand in the way of the neocons.

I find it most telling that both of those on this thread who have said I'm wrong have absolutely no reasoning to back up their opinion, they just say I'm wrong.

Patriot Act was voted in on the heels of the attacks..but Hartmann put it together (I had a duh moment).
The Democrats then never had to put the Patriot Act up for vote. Just like the Democrats this time around didn't have to put the FISA Amendment on the floor for a vote.... In both cases, the Democratic Leadership sold us and our Constitution out.

BTW.. I don't know if you know this either. When John Conyers had FBI Director Mueller in front of his Committee a few weeks ago, Conyers asked Mueller if the Anthrax Investigation was still being pursued and if his Committee could receive materials on it and be briefed on it.

Was the photo editor at _American Media_ who ran this photo:




And to answer your question, no I wasn't aware of Mueller being questioned about the anthrax investigation. What was his answer?

the first victim had photos of Shrub and his "friend" Victor Ashe in compromising positions.

As to Mueller's response..after some errs and ummms he said he'd see what he could do for Conyers.

But I bet Shrub's supporters would find some way to rationalize it.

And Mueller's response surprises me not at all.

Just like bin Laden, they don't *want* to catch the anthrax mailer.

If all electronic transmissions on this subject are being blocked, how did the story end up on the web in the first place?

It is damn interesting though.

Maybe I need new tinfoil for my hat...this stuff isn't conducting properly. :tinfoilhat:

Yes, I know Democrats were the victims of this attack and that I wouldn't put it past GOOP operatives to spread fear this way. Now how does impeaching remove this threat? If anything, I'd see it as an invitation to launch an attack to distract from the political circus that would happen in Washington.

Also...riddle me this...why hasn't there been any verified attack in nearly 5 years...wouldn't ya think if this was such a potent weapon to shut up dissent it would have been used?

In fact, just the opposite.

It is the anthrax which is stopping impeachment, among a lot of other things.

Nuclear weapons haven't been used since WWII but they are still a potent threat. Note that no nation whic has them has been invaded and several that don't have been invaded.

Of course, all this is speculation but I think it is informed and logical speculation.

Do you *really* think that a group willing to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocents for their own personal gain would think twice about killing a few more to hold on to that gain?

Maybe there's a reliable source that can verify a link between some GOOP operative or organization and the anthrax mailing. The only case I remember was a botched one involving a college researcher/professor. I think trying to link anthrax and using this as a reason for the lack of spines from Congressional Democrats (or some) is missing several parts here. Got ways to link them together? I'd be curious to see it.

Don't get me wrong, I have long felt that anthrax was mailed from within this country by some right wing killer, but I don't see that as being a weapon controlled by the party itself to intimidate Democrats. Why bother when you have a complicit corporate media that does a far more efficient job in confusing and silencing dissent.

Cheers...

One with sufficient access to highly classified weaponized anthrax to walk out of a highly secure facility with samples.

That whittles the list of possible suspects down to a toothpick.

And greatly increases the chances of it being someone politically connected.