Another good reason to go vegetarian: global warming

Starting off by disclosing I'm not vegetarian -- but quickly drifting in that direction.

This morning there was a post on this article: Belching Moose add to Global Warming, which sounded like a pathetic RW attempt to minimize the contribution of transportation to greenhouse gases.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=1646696&mesg_id=1646696

And it is, in a sense. But while attempting to debunk, I came across this tidbit: "According to the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, the livestock industry is responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions measured in CO2 equivalent, a higher share than transportation."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greenhouse_gas

To me this is astonishing. The source is largely methane produced by "enteric fermentation" (belching and flatulence) but also comes from manure. Add this to the forest burning necessary in some locales to create grazing land, and the fact that veggies remove CO₂ from the atmosphere--and I have yet another great reason to completely rid my diet of meat.

that you need never miss it. Quorn products will cure your fried chicken Jones when it happens. Boca Burgers will make you wonder why you ever bothered with fast food hockey pucks in a bun. Smart Foods makes fake steak and chicken strips that work well in stir fries, for fajitas, and in stroganoff. It doesn't all have to be beans, rice, tofu and sprouts the way it was back in the late 60s. Even soy based cheeses and yogurts are getting much better.

There are enough really good substitute foods out there that switching to a vegetarian diet doesn't mean changing your whole life around overnight, in other words. You can make changes and introduce new foods slowly.

Some people don't feel right on a vegetarian diet, though, so it all has to be on an individual basis. However, cutting meat consumption is something all of us can do, even the people who feel they need meat in their diet.

There are a lot of phytoestrogens and it's bad for people with hypoactive thyroid disease. Also, it's highly processed food.

exclusion of all other foodstuffs (and who would?), processed soy foods provide a great transition to a vegetarian diet.

That was my point, after all.

"Which is responsible for more global warming: your BMW or your Big Mac? Believe it or not, it's the burger. The international meat industry generates roughly 18% of the world's greenhouse-gas emissions—even more than transportation—according to a report last year from the U.N.'s Food and Agriculture Organization.

Much of that comes from the nitrous oxide in manure and the methane that is, as the New York Times delicately put it, "the natural result of bovine digestion." Methane has a warming effect that is 23 times as great as that of carbon, while nitrous oxide is 296 times as great.

There are 1.5 billion cattle and buffalo on the planet, along with 1.7 billion sheep and goats. Their populations are rising fast, especially in the developing world. Global meat production is expected to double between 2001 and 2050. Given the amount of energy consumed raising, shipping and selling livestock, a 16-oz.T-bone is like a Hummer on a plate.

If you switch to vegetarianism, you can shrink your carbon footprint by up to 1.5 tons of carbon dioxide a year, according to research by the University of Chicago. Trading a standard car for a hybrid cuts only about one ton—and isn't as tasty."

http://www.time.com/time/specials/2007/environment/article/0,28804,1602354_1603074_1603171,00.html

I'm a vegan and I found the switch to a meatless diet to be very easy, and I feel much better now than I did then.

make it OK to eat something that actually tastes better than sausage. The MSF vegan burgers are pretty darn good too

I am more of the "Mrs Dash on everything" type than an afficiando of the alternates. However, I do admit I have a taste for Boca Burgers.

http://www.slate.com/id/2059720/

and even my omnivorous friends prefer it to real bacon

best to become a breatharian.

All those who don't eat it simply facilitate increased consumption from others owing to a lower price?

Thats why I like CAFE standards over increased taxation or pure free market conservation. It has the effect of forcing everybody into a more efficient vehicle bracket.

It's not really what you eat. It's how we get the food.

Not only that, but what are we going to do with all those cows, chickens, and pigs when everyone goes vegetarian? We've bred them to fit our wants, we've controlled their evolution. Where are they going to go? There's no wilderness for them. Unless we let them starve(probably creating some type of virus that will do something somewhere), they still need to be fed.

We're not getting out of this mess that easily.

to let excess chickens/cows/pigs reproduce? There is a magical bottom limit to their numbers?

They don't have lives of their own anymore. We own them. They are specifically bred to fit our narrow wants, not what they would need to survive unhooked from machines. Do we kill them? Do we let them die? Do we send them off somewhere? Do we keep feeding them? They're completely useless other than as products for our consumption. Some/most/all probably can't even reproduce on their own they're so completely filled with who knows what type of chemicals.

I'm just asking, if everyone went vegetarian right now(which wouldn't solve much since we're not all going to become small farmers), what would we do with all those products(a.k.a, cows/chickens/pigs)?

So your roadblock to vegetarianism is that if EVERYONE did it overnight we would have a problem of excess farm animals.

Can you not see how ridiculous this is? Who among us, even the most bright-eyed dreamers, have any hope whatsoever that the entire country (world???) will become vegetarian overnight? You cannot perceive that the ONLY way that vegetarianism is going to become "mainstream" is a gradual process, and that the "problem" of excess animals will be self-regulated as ranchers etc adjust to the demand for their product?

use it to produce electricity from the biogas (waste fermentation by-product).

http://www.cglg.org/biomass/pub/AgriculturalBiogasCasebook.pdf

there is a middle way. I have cut out red meat , and eat chicken and fish 2--3 times a week , and the rest is meatless.

This does not have to be an all or nothing life style;

Just a responsible one.

Or you can eat Kangaroo.

:yourock: have i told you lately that i love you! :loveya:

btw, for the record, i am a vegetarian.

not because of health reasons or moral objections to meat itself, but because of how much water it takes to raise a pound of beef.

I know some people still hold out hope for it, but it ain't gonna happen. If we accept this, we can work to change the livestock industry so that it is less destructive to the environment. This is where we should focus our energies. And, while doing so, gain converts by example and by making really yummy vegetarian food (not that fake meat crap that isn't fooling anyone, even if some of it is good on its own). There's no reason for not having an awesome chain of vegetarian "fast food" restaurants, for example.

vegetarian restaurants!
http://markssfdiningclub.pbwiki.com/ReviewLeCommensal
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0820/is_n225/ai_18230842

They want to create a budget and hire people to track, hunt, poison and shoot the wolves that we restored to the Yellowstone NP ecosystem in the 1990s. They want to run them down and shoot them from airplanes. There are only about 100 wolves in the Yellostone ecosystem. Decent management plans for this endangered species were drafted in Montana. In Wyoming, they want to treat them as targets. The Governor of Idaho has said he wants to be the first to shoot one.

The wolf issue has been over-hyped and cynically manipulated in the cattle ranching states. There is a budget to replace cattle that are taken by wolves. That is not the issue.

Right now, the bush government Fish and Wildlife Service is allowing the scant wolf population to be killed anywhere that they go in Wyoming outside of Yellowstone NP and Grand Teton NP. bush has manipulated this issue to create a conflict between the environmentalists and the ranchers.

Nothing says that you have to patronize the cattle industry. Their product is inferior, anyway. No fiber, no vitamins, no minerals to speak of. It's saturated fat and hormones and antibiotics.

I have been boycotting beef since I read an expose' in the Utne Reader called "Are you still eating beef?". Won't you please join me?

http://www.defenders.org/programs_and_policy/wildlife_conservation/imperiled_species/wolves/index.php">Defenders of Wildlife

pardon the hijack, wtmusic

I'm getting the impression that our need for beef has been highly manipulated, just as has our need for oil. I like it now and then, but it's amazing how many people think it's an essential part of their diet.

excellent reading.

thank you for the post. :thumbsup:

There is not enough of us to have an impact on reducing the cattle raised for beef production.

Maybe you should look at the health benefits of becoming vegetarian.

Everyone has an impact, and this is a significant one.

Why is it that here on DU even in the face of a sound rational statement some people perpetuate the same stupid thinking?

Can you tell me how much global warming will be improved if even a couple of thousand new vegetarians materialize?

Cattle production would not be reduced one bit. Not everyone is going to stop eating beef.

Where do you get such stupid ideas?

Say there are 4 million veg*ns in the US. Average annual meat consumption in the US is 194 lbs (2000 figure) of which 113.5 was red meat.

4,000,000x194=776,000,000

That's lack of demand for 776,000,000 lbs of meat for one year. Lack of demand for 454 million lbs of red meat. And if it takes just 435 gallons of water (that's the Cattlemen's Association number, btw) to make 1 lb of beef, that's 197,490,000,000 gallons of water.

No one expects everyone to stop eating beef--that'd be ridiculous. However, I don't think there's anything wrong with encouraging people to eat less or no beef. The larger effect is real.

Same as voting. One person makes no difference, but en masse, we make changes.

Who says everyone has to stop eating beef? Now that's stupid. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

What if a couple of million new vegetarians materialize? Aw nevermind, just be good and complacent. They're counting on you!

The place is literally overrun with Bison, and it doesn't smell like farts anywhere. The air clean, pristine, beautiful, and the park is nature at it's most hypnotic. There's also moose there. They probably belch too. I highly doubt that causes forest fires.

How about reducing factory farming, and increasing free range ranching? Why is it all or nothing?

...and you will not only be contributing to a less-destructive human impact on the environment, you will see health benefits galore.

And economic benefits, as a local community of food producers grows and strengthens.

stridently,
Bright

There are 90 million heads of beef cattle in the US in 2007, and 62 million hogs/pigs.

Just for comparison.

Since it's not like the raising of cows for meat is going to slow because of your becoming a vegetarian, then the same amount of cows will be alive that were alive prior to your becoming one. But if anything, if you and some others stop eating yummy steak then maybe a few cows wouldn't need to be slaughtered as quickly to meet the demand. If that was the case, then you're actually HURTING global warming because the methane emissions would actually INCREASE by the cow being left alive a little longer. Pretty funny right? LOL

Fact is, meat eating is fine. Though the emissions from the cows are a huge contributor to global warming, there are many solutions being worked on to curb it. Let me assure you, getting people to turn vegetarian is not one of them. What is being worked on is ways in which food, grain etc that is fed to the cows can be done in such a way as to limit the methane production etc. But if you think for a second that preaching becoming a vegetarian would in a million years help curb this than I also got a bridge to sell ya.

The cows being raised are being raised anyway, with or without your consumption. Their methane will be produced anyway. Like I said, if anything you're risking their being alive a little longer than otherwise, thereby contributing even more methane. Becoming a veg ain't gonna stop a damn thing. What we need is to make sure enough people and resources are working on the issue of how to reduce the methane produced by the cows via their feed, etc.

Until then, enjoy that juicy yummy steak. It's all good!

but why the promotion of eating meat?

I'm not promoting it, per se, I'm just sayin if ya like it, eat it!

Sorry pal, you're on your own.

:spray:

It has nothing to do with your argument (most of your arguments) being consistently specious, bullyish, and flat wrong.

They don't get my business for political reasons. If less people eat beef, there will be less cows on the planet and less cow-related greenhouse gasses. It is really not that complicated. And there is no realistic possiblity that greenhouse gas emissions from grain that is fed to the cows can be done in such a way as to limit the methane production etc.

The average human exhales 724 pounds of CO2 per year. Multiply that by 6 billion, and you get 2.2 GigaTons.

That's right. Humans exhale about 2.2 Billion Tons of CO2 per year. Just our being here is ruining the earth.

An excellent argument for population control.

Short of genocide, not much we can do about those of us already here. A lot we can do about the choices those 6 billion people make.

I'm sorry but I refuse to take this kind of misdirecting *bullshit* seriously. Get it - bullshit? BULL shit? eh? Anybody? No?
Ok maybe later...

No really this is bullshit. We have to focus on CO2 that comes from our industrial products and processes. The Earth is just as full of grass-eating fauna as it used to be, indeed probably less so, but the problem of greenhouse gas induced global warming is new and urgent. We should focus on what we've done to cause the imbalance and change the things that we can change to fix it. You cannot fix a problem this size by individuals deciding that they will be saintly and noble and stop eating cows, or that they'll go around surreptitiously assassinating all the moose in the northern forests of Scandinavia and N. America. (I don't eat cow myself, just for the record.) You need to work on a mass scale to effect change to the atmosphere of the magnitude required to avert further catastrophe, and also within the time frame required. And you cannot legislate a vegetarian diet. You cannot and will not. People will kill you before they let you move forward with something that even hints at that. And then they'll probably eat the better cuts of meat off your carcass.

Just look at who delights in "news" like this. You said it yourself: this is rwinger-bait. This report goes beside Ronald Reagan's scientific pronouncement that trees caused more air pollution than automobiles.

Proclaiming it bullshit means nothing. This comes from the United Nations -- the people that RWers would just as soon wipe off the face of the planet, remember?

We have to focus on both. If you can't accept that livestock actually affects GW more than transportation, some introspection is in order. It has nothing to do with being noble -- it's addressing the most significant causes of a problem first. In the meantime, don't freak out--whatever the hell you eat, I promise I won't take it away from you. :eyes:

Or else you can just go on helping RWers belittle the problem of global warming, ensuring we do nothing about it.

Think much harder.

Factory farming causes pollution and does the animals no good, either. We've searched out locally-raised meat and eggs and get better quality from products that didn't wreck the environment.

Here's where we get our beef nowadays.

http://www.strathande.com/

We need veal crates for the adult cows now, too. I say this because I can't see them putting a dome over a feedlot. It's a budget thing.

when it's pointed out that their dietary choices might have a very real impact on the planet.

Not cattle, not moose, not anything else. 18% is not enough.

Even if everyone became vegetarian, it does very, very little to stop global warming until we stop driving as much.

I am of the (pessimistic) opinion that we can't actually stop global warming. It is much too late. So we all better move away from the coasts and hang on to our hats.

highly recommend the spiritual high you'll feel --

I'm a Vegan -- happier than ever.

And love food even more now --


I think we need to examine and end "Manifest Destiny" and "Man's Dominion Over Nature" . . .
which are simply patriarchal license for the few to exploit nature, natural resources, animal-life and even other human beings according to various myths of inferiority.

Animal-exploitation is taking a huge toll on our planet --
just as human overpopulation is doing.

Run-off from animal waste, etc. is polluting our rivers and streams --

And the violence of the animal-slaughtering business is well hidden still-
12 million+ animals slaughtered every day.

That's a high degree of violence we are all living amidst --

It's been about 4 years now. No reason at all to ever look back, never been healthier.