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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:27 AM
Original message
Guatemala 'on brink of ruin' after 40 murdered
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 06:36 AM by Judi Lynn
Source: Sunday Telegraph

Guatemala 'on brink of ruin' after 40 murdered
By Philip Sherwell in Guatemala City, Sunday Telegraph
Last Updated: 1:42am BST 26/08/2007




Congressional candidate Hector Montenegro holds a picture of his murdered daughter Marta Cristina

Hector Montenegro took a break from election campaigning in Guatemala last week - to bury his murdered teenage daughter. Her killers had pulled out her fingernails, tied her hands behind her back, slit her throat, then stuffed the corpse into the boot of a taxi with two other victims of similarly brutal attacks.

The distraught congressional candidate for the leading party was in no doubt that 15-year-old Marta Cristina was the latest victim of a particularly violent election campaign, even by the standards of a country that endured a bloody 36-year civil war.

"I am sure that her killing was politically motivated," said Mr Montenegro, 71, a veteran activist for the poor and elderly. "I am used to the threatening phone calls, the insults, the people calling me a communist. But what sort of animal could do this to a teenage girl?"

Forty candidates or senior party officials have already been murdered during the campaign - a grim tally that does not include supporters or relatives such as Mr Montenegro's daughter. With two weeks to go before the September 9 poll, the death toll makes this the bloodiest election in the country's history, as drug lords, crime gangs and political rivals seek to buy power, settle scores and intimidate enemies.
(snip)

Indeed, in the murky and dangerous world of Guatemalan politics, Mr Montenegro, a UNE candidate for congress, has his own suspicions about who is to blame for his daughter's murder. "Who has most to gain from the creating insecurity in the country? The candidates who say they will bring security back to the country, of course," he said.




Read more: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/08/26/wguat126.xml





Hector Montenegro took a break from election campaigning in Guatemala last week - to bury his murdered teenage daughter

The distraught congressional candidate for the leading party was in doubt that 15-year-old Martha Christina was the latest victim of a particularly violent election campaign, even by the standards of a country that endured a bloody 36-year civil war.



Forty candidates or senior party officials have already been murdered during the campaign - a grim tally that does not even include the killings of supporters or relatives such as Mr Montenegro’s daughter.
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shenmue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:52 AM
Response to Original message
1. So awful
:cry:

That poor kid. What did she do to anyone?
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:16 AM
Response to Original message
2. is that the sound of silence that i hear from our candidates?
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 07:17 AM by madrchsod
let us worry about fidel instead of worrying about...oh shit i forgot...there is not a rich guatemalan voter base to appeal to here in the usa. never mind... it does`t matter.
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mia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 12:06 PM
Response to Reply #2
19. You've got it right. n/t
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peacebuzzard Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:38 AM
Response to Original message
3. that is beyond barbaric.
this should not be happening; but like the above poster speculated, chances are slim this subject becomes a focus up here in the MSM.
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dipsydoodle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:51 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cause and effect
Goes back that to those unholy bastards the Dulles bros. I hope they've both been reincarnated as statues of Arbenz so's pidgeons can shit on them both all day.

Usual link : http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Guatemala_KH.html
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 10:51 AM
Response to Reply #4
10. Your link is superb. Not that many Americans have any idea what happened in Guatemala, yet.
It's good to mention before unsuspecting DU'ers read this article that the "United Fruit Company" which was so deeply involved in the overthrow of Guatemala's President Arbenz in the 1950's, became the more familiar "Chiquita Banana" company, and at one time, the largest share holder was the Zapata Company, owned by #41, George H. W. Bush. You will notice the heavy involvement of both the Republican President Eisenhower's administration and the C.I.A.

Great points from your article:
In March 1953, the CIA approached disgruntled right-wing officers in the Guatemala army and arranged to send them arms. United Fruit donated $64,000 in cash. The following month, uprisings broke out in several towns but were quickly put down by loyal troops. The rebels were put on trial and revealed the fruit company's role in the plot, but not the ClA's.
The Eisenhower administration resolved to do the job right the next time around. With cynical glee, almost an entire year was spent in painstaking, step-by-step preparation for the overthrow of Jacobo Arbenz Guzman. Of the major CIA undertakings, few have been as well documented as has the coup in Guatemala. With the release of many formerly classified government papers, the following story has emerged:

Headquarters for the operation were established in Opa Locka, Florida, on the out skirts of Miami. The Nicaraguan dictator Anastasio Somoza lent/leased his country out as a site for an airstrip and for hundreds of men-Guatemalan exiles and US and Central American mercenaries-to receive training in the use of weapons and radio broadcasting, as well as in the fine arts of sabotage and demolition. Thirty airplanes were assigned for use in the "Liberation", stationed in Nicaragua, Honduras and the Canal Zone, to be flown by American pilots. The Canal Zone was set aside as a weapons depot from which arms were gradually distributed to the rebels who were to assemble in Honduras under the command of Colonel Carlos Castillo Armas before crossing into Guatemala. Soviet-marked weapons were also gathered for the purpose of planting them inside Guatemala before the invasion to reinforce US charges of Russian intervention. And, as important as arms, it turned out, hidden radio transmitters were placed in and around the perimeter of Guatemala, including one in the US Embassy.
(snip)

Arbenz himself was offered a bribe by the CIA, whether to abdicate his office or something less is not clear. A large sum of money was deposited in a Swiss bank for him, but he, or a subordinate, rejected the offer.
On the economic front, contingency plans were made for such things as cutting off Guatemalan credit abroad, disrupting its oil supplies, and causing a run on its foreign reserves. But it was on the propaganda front that American ingenuity shone at its bright ~t. Inasmuch as the Guatemalan government was being overthrown because it was communist. the fact of its communism would have to be impressed upon the rest of Latin America.
Accordingly, the US Information Agency (USIA) began to place unattributed articles in foreign newspapers labeling particular Guatemalan officials as communist and referring to various actions by the Guatemalan government as "communist-inspired". In the few weeks prior to Arbenz's fall alone, more than 200 articles about Guatemala were written and published in scores of Latin American newspapers.
Employing a method which was to become a standard CIA/USIA feature all over Latin America and elsewhere, as we shall see, articles placed in one country were picked up by newspapers in other countries, either as a result of CIA payment or unwittingly because the story was of interest. Besides the obvious advantage of multiplying the potential audience, the tactic gave the appearance that independent world opinion was taking a certain stand and further obscured the American connection.
The USIA also distributed more than 100,000 copies of a pamphlet entitled "Chronology of Communism in Guatemala" throughout the hemisphere, as well as 27,000 copies of anti-communist cartoons and posters. The American propaganda agency, more over, produced three films on Guatemala, with predictable content, and newsreels favorable to the United States for showing free in cinemas.
(snip/...)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Guatemala_KH.html



Guatemalan President Arbenz
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:49 AM
Response to Reply #10
17. I knew that somehow the Bush Crime Family was involved in this
That's why our Press Corpse won't talk about this issue. They won't want to paint Dear Leader in a bad light. Besides, who wants to report about boring poor people in a country in, um, uh, where is...hey, lets ask Miss Teenage South Carolina if she can tell me where Guatemala is!
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L. Coyote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 05:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
29. Just part of the Covert Global War n/t
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catzies Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:02 PM
Response to Reply #4
39. There are literally days full of reading from that source in your link and thank you
...off to read EVERY page of it! :hi:
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Danger Mouse Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 08:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. And in the American media...let me guess...silence...
:cry: the poor girl. What kind of sick bastards could do such a thing???
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Joe Chi Minh Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. There never seems to be a downward limit on how low the far right
in every country will sink to attain or protect its demonic ends.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Having read the article, I don't think it's as simple as blaming 'the far right'.
From what I read, the entire system is to blame. Officials from the left-wing party also couldn't swear all their candidates were 'clean'. Corruption IS the system in countries like Guatemala and it knows no 'left' or 'right'.
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SharonAnn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:04 AM
Response to Reply #7
11. Unfortunately, it's at least party the fault of he USA. We kept dictators and "strong men" in power
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 11:05 AM by SharonAnn
to suit American companies who wanted "stable" governments that could be counted on to let the companies expropriate their resources and oppress their people. The legacy of companies like the United Fruit company are horrific.

By doing that, we prevented the education and development of the populace, prevented experience in self-government, created an environment where the population could not trust the government, and showed that the way to survive and even to prosper was to become part of the corruption.

What a horrible legacy we have there.
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PittPoliSci Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #11
13. delete
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 11:19 AM by PittPoliSci
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
30. You are right: it's partly the fault of the US. But also without US engagement, corrupt dictatorship
or 'unstable democracies' (like Guatemala) continue to exist. And many countries in e.g. Africa and South-East Asia show that big Western corporations can freely do as they please with the native inhabitants and their natural resources, without a Western government 'officially' intervening. I would not rule out US influence, past and/or present, but I would 'blame' Western corporatism for ruining the respective countries, as they usually make sure the dictators can stay in place. However, the US indeed has a 'dirty' history in South-America about which most people don't know a thing; not even in Europe. We are too busy painting Chávez as the Big Boogieman to examine 50 years of US influence in the region.
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arikara Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 12:46 PM
Response to Reply #7
21. Hmmm... sounds familiar
no different here in Canada, or with you in the US. The leaders of both right and left have the same goals and many are just as corrupt. The only difference being the level of violence necessary to achieve the goal. We're more brainwashed by our media here which they aren't as much able to be subjected to down there. So they are terrorized instead.

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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. I DO think there's a big difference between countries like Guatemala, and countries like Canada...
Sure, I'm cynical enough to accept the notion that to a certain extent, MOST of the politicians are looking at for their career first, and the common good second, as it happens to fit into their agenda. In fact, there was a piece on that on Dutch tv just the other night. But I don't think they're ALL like that, and that they're all alike. I also see a big difference between left and right, at least in Europe. Policies/approaches/points of view of leftist parties are vastly different from those of right-wing parties. It shows both in campaigns as in governing. Maybe it's because our politicians aren't bought with corporate money, like in Guatemala and the US, that I'm more positive? :shrug:
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 02:11 PM
Response to Reply #7
27. Please read my post below. The Telegraph is a righwing rag, and they may well have
colored the facts, and omitted facts, so that you and I come away with the impression that all parties--left and right--are committing this dreadful violence, when history (including the history of Guatemala, in the '80s, for instance) and current experience (for instance, in Colombia and Mexico) tell us that violent repression in Latin America is almost always the doing of rightwing fascists in conspiracy with the CIA and U.S./global corporate interests. The possible corruption in leftist parties (that is mentioned in the article) is not the same thing as violence. We have corruption--very serious corruption--in OUR party, the Democratic Party, but it is the Bushites who are actually torturing and mass murdering Arabs and Islamics. We may despise corruption, but is not the same thing as killing people. The Telegraph article slides over this difference, and conflates the two sides, meaning they are all violent, they are all guilty of ripping this girl's fingernails off and killing her. But is it true? Would leftists do this? Even corrupt leftists? I doubt it very, very, VERY much. I think it's a clever piece of rightwing/corporate propaganda.
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. Well, I said it was my judgment based solely on this article. However,
I think it's naive to "doubt it very, very, VERY much" that leftists would do the horrible things described in this article. Would you say being a leftist makes you inherently good and being a right-winger makes you inherently 'evil'? I would disagree. I know leftists whom I would never vote for, because I think they're jerks and not interested in the common good. I know right-wing politicians with whom I don't agree, but who have integrity and are friendly people.

And don't forget there have been/are left-wing dictatorships that were/are VERY cruel to their people. What about Soviet Russia and their 'satellite states'? What about Cuba? What about Pol Pot's Cambodia? Not nice places to live, I would think.
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WinkyDink Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 06:57 PM
Response to Reply #7
32. I think in Central America, the death-squads are right-wing.
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 06:58 PM by WinkyDink
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DutchLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #32
34. Or paid for by Coca Cola, like in Colombia.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 09:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
37. You are so right. nt
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go west young man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 10:23 AM
Response to Original message
8. Absolutely terrible.
I'm sure our mainstream media will skip this one as a young girl having her fingernails removed doesn't fit in well next to water skiing squirrels and the like. Not feel good enough. Plus they don't have oil or a voting block here (as someone above mentioned). Her grandfather seems a great man as he campaigns for the poor and needy. On the other hand General Otto Molina seems quite scary. "Operation Iron Fist" is also a pretty Nazi sounding name for cleaning up corruption. I have a feeling General Molina needs to look no further than a mirror for poor Marta Cristina's killer.
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AllyCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #8
18. Yeah, she's not a blonde co-ed so they don't usually report on that n/t
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Colorado Progressive Donating Member (980 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
9. Unbelievable. Pretty bad when another country is in such a sorry
state that it makes the US look civilized. Poor girl :cry:
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:07 AM
Response to Reply #9
12. The U.S. was simply involved in helping Guatemala arrive in that savage state.
It kicked into high gear during the Eisenhower administration:
1954 U. S. Involvement in the Coup against President Arbenz

In 1954, a CIA-orchestrated coup ended what Guatemalans call the "Ten Years of Spring," which began with the bloodless overthrow of military dictator Jorge Ubico in 1944. During this period, two democratically-elected civilian presidents governed Guatemala, trying to provide opportunities and raise the standard of living. Jacobo Arbenz, elected in 1950, began to push agrarian reforms more seriously than his predecessor. The United Fruit Company (now Chiquita) (UFCo) protested when unused portions of its vast holdings were expropriated and distributed to land-less peasants. The Guatemalan government paid the US company the tax-declared value of the land, but UFCo protested to the highest levels of the US government. Two UFCo stockholders at the time were the Dulles brothers, Secretary of State and head of the CIA in the Eisenhower administration. © 1998, Piet van Lear, A War Called Peace

Following the coup, Colonel Castillo Armas became the new president. the U. S. Ambassador furnished Armas with lists of radical opponents to be eliminated, and the bloodletting promptly began. Under Armas, thousands were arrested and many were tortured and killed.
A "killing field" in the Americas: U. S. policy in Guatemala

The coup unleashed one of the most brutal military regimes in the hemisphere. Some 140,000 people have been killed and another 45,000 disappeared in a U.S. backed scorched earth campaign to wipe out dissidents, rebels and activists for peace and social justice in Guatemala. The abuses by the Guatemalan military and its death squads were do horrific that even Amnesty International reported that they "Strained credulity." But next week, the guerrillas of the Guatemalan National Revolutionary Unity or UNRG, will sign a controversial peace accord with the government and formally end a generation of war.
(snip)

1954 - 1996 U. S. Support for Guatemala's Dictators
  • During the 1960s and 70s, American military aid and training made Guatemala's army the strongest and most sophisticated in Central America. Between 1966-68, during the Johnson presidency, the Green Berets were sent to Guatemala to transform its Army into a modern counter-insurgency force and to conduct a Vietnam-style war there...Death squads, never before seen in Latin America, were started during this period. Army leaders, government officials and the businessmen who supported andoften bankrolled the death squads, had close ties with many US. administrations...Journalists, lawyers, teachers, members of opposition parties, and anyone who expressed sympathy for the anti-government cause was machine gunned...American planes and pilots, flying out of Panama, dropped napalm on suspected targets A "killing field" in the Americas: U. S. policy in Guatemala

  • 1977, as a result of international publicity which revealed thepattern of torture and killing, U. S. President Jimmy Carter cut off overt military aid. However, money and arms still got to Guatemala through the CIA. Argentina and Chile also aided the Guatemala Army. "And Israel has played a very important role in Guatemala since 1977, supplying weapons, building munitions factories, and training soldiers." A "killing field" in the Americas: U. S. policy in Guatemala.
    (snip/...)
http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/guatemal.htm





Rio Negro, and Acteal massacre victims
relatives carrying remains for reburial.
Only two of many Guatemalan massacres.
Guatemala Massacre

Excerpts from "Charlie Rose," March 31, 1995
Guests: Rep. Robert Torricelli, Elliot Abrams, Allan Nairn

This may not be news to most Deep Times readers, but it is a conveniently packaged interview that might be effective with students when discussing "human rights" and imperialism. The massacre in Guatemala of 100,000 is on a proportionate scale, equivalent to TWENTY FIVE THOUSAND Tienamien Square incidents. That's 25,000 times as many deaths, in relation to the size of the country, and of course, students know quite a bit more about the China incident than they do about Guatemala.
-----(forwarded by Alan Spector)

. Rose: Tell me what you have found out, Allan. You've got a story in the Nation magazine thats called "CIA Death Squad: Americans Have Been Directly Involved in Guatemalan Army Killings." What can you add to this story before I go to Elliot in Washington?
. Nairn: Alpirez is one Colonel on the CIA payroll who committed two murders. From talking to both Guatemalan and US operatives involved in this, its clear that there are many, perhaps dozens of Guatemalan military officers on the CIA payroll who've been involved in thousands of killings. The G-2, the military intelligence service which coordinates tha assinations and disappearances -- their top officials have for years been paid by the CIA. I was able to learn the names of three of them who've been on the payroll, as well as General Hector Gramajo, General Roberto Matta, two of the top officers, closest US proteges, who've been directly involved in commanding massacres in the Northwest Highlands. Furthermore, there are actual US CIA agents who work directly inside the G-2. I was able to learn the names of two of them, Joe Jacarino and Randy Capister. They provide what's called technical assistance and advice. I was able to reach colonel Alpirez on the phone in Guatemala. He denied being involved in the Devine and Bamaca killings, said the CIA wasn't paying him, but he talked rather extensively about how the CIA essentially helps to run the G-2 with ongoing advice and American advisers right there inside this systematic killing operation.

Rose: You recorded this conversation?

Nairn: No, I took extensive notes on it. And its not just the CIA. Its the Pentagon, the State Department, and the White House as well. For example, here are some internal State Department records which indicate that during both the Bush and Clinton administrations after there was a supposed cutoff of military aid to Guatemala, the State Department authorized at least 114 separate sales of pistols and rifles to Guatemala. The US military has been planning joint maneuvers with the Guatemalan military this spring. This is an across the board policy and you have to hold the President accountable for that.
(snip/...)
http://www.copi.com/articles/guatmala.html

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Reagan & Guatemala's Death Files
by Robert Parry
iF magazine, May/June 1999



Ronald Reagan's election in November 1980 set off celebrations in the well-to-do communities of Central America.
After four years of Jimmy Carter's human rights nagging, the region's anticommunist hard-liners were thrilled that they had someone in the White House who understood their problems.
The oligarchs and the generals had good reason for the optimism. For years, Reagan had been a staunch defender of right-wing regimes that engaged in bloody counterinsurgency campaigns against leftist enemies.
In the late 1970s, when Carter's human rights coordinator, Pat Derian, criticized the Argentine military for its "dirty war" -- tens of thousands of "disappearances," tortures and murders -then-political commentator Reagan joshed that she should "walk a mile in the moccasins" of the Argentine generals before criticizing them.
Despite his aw shucks style, Reagan found virtually every anticommunist action justified, no matter how brutal. From his eight years in the White House, there is no historical indication that he was troubled by the bloodbath and even genocide that occurred in Central America during his presidency, while he was shipping hundreds of millions of dollars in military aid to the implicated forces.
The death toll was staggering -- an estimated 70,000 or more political killings in El Salvador, possibly 20,000 slain from the contra war in Nicaragua, about 200 political "disappearances" in Honduras and some 100,000 people eliminated during a resurgence of political violence in Guatemala.
(snip/...)
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Ronald_Reagan/Reagan_Guatemala.html
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Colorado Progressive Donating Member (980 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:36 AM
Response to Reply #12
15. well shit, I shouldvé guessed nt
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:30 AM
Response to Original message
14. this is the future that the repukes want for amurka.
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The M Double Donating Member (67 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:40 AM
Response to Original message
16. Kick
.... "Must know" stuff.

Nice input so far everyone...
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 12:46 PM
Response to Original message
20. But, but.................Chavez might turn out to be a dictator!!!!
:sarcasm:
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 12:54 PM
Response to Original message
22. John Negroponte neocon fascistic murder squads in action since the early 1980s
...and has returned again when BushCo took power in January 2001 :wtf:

<snip>
Guatemala: Between Justice and Terror
Resurgent death squads hamper genocide trials
by Mark Engler & Alexandra Durbin
Z magazine, November 2002



In the past year, a new wave of repression has swept through Guatemala. One of the many anonymous letters received by the country's human rights activists reads, "In a war there are no guilty parties, and it is not your place to judge us." Another simply warns: "You had better take care, you son of a bitch, we are going to shut you up."

With several recent murders, Guatemala's resurgent death squads proved that they are prepared carry out their threats. In late April, Guillermo Ovalle de Leon, from the prominent Rigoberta Menchu Foundation, was killed. On September 6, unknown assailants abducted and tortured Manuel Garcia de la Cruz, a rural activist involved in exhuming clandestine wartime cemeteries. Journalists investigating his murder were followed and had their equipment stolen.

The renewed acts of violence and repression are designed to silence activists seeking to prosecute military officers for genocide and other war crimes. In May 2000 and June 2001, representatives of indigenous communities belonging to the Association for Justice and Reconciliation (AJR) filed two cases in the Guatemalan legal system. They charged former dictators Romeo Lucas Garcia and Rios Montt, along with members of their high commands, with genocide and crimes against humanity. Complementing these efforts, Nobel Laureate Rigoberta Menchu Tum previously filed charges in December 1999 in the Spanish courts against the two generals and six other Guatemalan officials.
The genocide cases and the attacks against human rights workers have brought mainstream attention back to a country that faded from international view following the passage of Peace Accords in 1996.

Since the Guatemalan Republican Front (FRG) came into power in 2000, human rights violations have increased dramatically, reaching their highest levels since the 1996 Accords. Examples of abuses abound. Anselmo Roldan Aguilar, president and legal representative of AJR, was stabbed in July 2001 by a person with links to the army. This August Roberto Romero, a key lawyer in a trial attempting to prosecute three Guatemalan army officials for ordering the assassination of anthropologist Myrna Mack, received several threats on his life. Shots were fired at his home and, a few hours later, two anonymous callers warned him to abandon the case. Since the trial began on September 3, Romero and his family have been the targets of further death threats, surveillance, and intimidation.

Continuing violence has impeded efforts to take meaningful steps toward justice and reconciliation. The country has yet to collectively reckon with the 1.5 million people displaced and the 669 massacres, which took place throughout the countryside-a situation that a 1999 UN-backed report acknowledged as genocidal. Two hundred thousand Guatemalans were killed or disappeared during the country's 36 year-long war, when death squads linked to the U.S.-backed military targeted analysts, activists, and journalists who spoke out against state repression.

Recent human rights violations, while not directly committed by the government as they were during the war, are often carried out by clandestine groups with links to the State. Guatemalan civil society, the United Nations Mission in Guatemala, and the governmental Human Rights Procurator report the existence of "hidden" power structures parallel to the State. These Mafia-like power cells, linked to the economic elite and laced throughout the government and military, carry out surveillance, intimidation, threats, political assassinations, and extrajudicial executions. In a clear moment of double-speak, President Portillo's spokesperson Byron Barrera recently denied the existence of clandestine groups, yet admitted that such groups are responsible for some human rights violations.

Meanwhile, many wartime human rights violators continue to wield influence in Guatemalan politics. Former dictator Rios Montt currently serves as Head of Congress. According to a survey by the daily newspaper Prensa Libre, most Guatemalans consider him the most powerful person in the country. The government has failed to follow the Peace Accords' mandate to abolish groups responsible for wartime atrocities, groups like the Presidential guard and military intelligence units. Congress has also elevated the army's budget to levels that violate the Accords.
<MORE>

http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Central_America/Guatemala_Justice_Terror.html
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Capn Sunshine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. Everywhere Negroponte goes, death squads follow
They popped up in Iraq the week after he went there. It's almost like he gave seminars.
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struggle4progress Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 01:12 PM
Response to Original message
24. U.S. will end ban on military aid to Guatemala (2005)
U.S. will end ban on military aid to Guatemala (2005)
By Ginger Thompson
Published: SATURDAY, MARCH 26, 2005

MEXICO CITY: Donald Rumsfeld, the U.S. secretary of defense, has announced that the United States will lift its ban on military aid to Guatemala, whose government has embarked on a major effort to change a military accused of kidnappings and killings during more than 30 years of civil war ...

Human rights investigations into the violence uncovered significant military atrocities, conducted under so-called scorched-earth policies. About 200,000 people were killed or missing in Guatemala from 1960 to 1996, mostly Mayan Indian civilians. A truth commission backed by the United Nations found that 90 percent of those deaths had been caused by the military.

The United States withdrew aid from Guatemala's military in 1990 after it was learned that soldiers had been involved in the killing of an American named Michael Devine ...

Adriana Beltrán, an expert on Guatemala with the Washington Office on Latin America, a research institution, said Berger's government had done very little to stop private groups of gunmen from intimidating and killing people who were working to uncover past and present human rights abuses in Guatemala ...

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/03/25/news/guate.php


24 March 2005
United States Releasing $3.2 Million in Military Aid to Guatemala
Secretary Rumsfeld praises Guatemala's human-rights gains
By Eric Green
Washington File Staff Writer

Washington -- The United States is releasing $3.2 million in military aid to Guatemala, U.S. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld has announced.

Speaking March 24 in Guatemala City after holding talks that day with Guatemalan President Oscar Berger, the defense secretary indicated that the aid is intended for a number of uses ...

http://usinfo.state.gov/xarchives/display.html?p=washfile-english&y=2005&m=March&x=20050324170023AEneerG0.3781549


Re-establishing overt military ties is, of course, done under cover of "humanitarian aid" or the "war-on-drugs":

March 25, 2005
Press Conference with Secretary Rumsfeld and Honorable Oscar Berger Perdomo, President of Guatemala

BERGER: ... Also mentioned was the participation of our army in protecting our citizens to come to humanitarian, provide humanitarian help in the case of activity and of course cooperate in security issues of very important. To fight our drug trafficking, terrorism and organized crime ...
RUMSFELD: ... This morning we talked a bit about, as the President said, the problems of gangs and drug trafficking ...

http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/transcript.aspx?transcriptid=2492


Rumsfeld Sends General to Coordinate Guatemalan Disaster Relief
By Kathleen T. Rhem
American Forces Press Service

TAMPA, Fla., Oct. 11, 2005 – Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld has dispatched a senior U.S. general to assess relief efforts in hurricane-stricken Guatemala, officials said today as Rumsfeld prepared to travel to Miami for a meeting of Central American defense and security ministers.

Army Gen. Bantz J. Craddock, commander of U.S. Southern Command, arrived in Guatemala Oct. 9. In a conference call with Rumsfeld and Joint Chiefs Chairman Marine Gen. Peter Pace this morning, Craddock assessed the preparedness of the Guatemalan military as good ...
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=18107


Naturally, we must ignore the fact that using the military for (say) anti-drug work makes no sense in contexts

Guatemala’s Cursed Armed Forces: Washington’s Old Friend is Back in Town

One can be forgiven for arguing that Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, who demonstrably is losing the war in Iraq, is now trying to achieve an easy win in Latin America, where he is presiding over the rehabilitation of what he sees as the Latin American military’s sense of honor. But the murderous reputation of that institution was established not due to invention or superficial judgment, but because of the fact that during the 1970s and 1980s, tens of thousands of innocent civilians were tortured and murdered throughout the region at the hands of local armed forces ...

Guatemala’s newly appointed defense minister, General Francisco Bermudez, is currently in Washington D.C., for a four day visit that began on March 13. On his agenda is an appointment with the Secretary of Defense. In that meeting, Rumsfeld is expected to address the matter of a renewal of U.S. military aid to Guatemala, and possibly the construction of a DEA base in the Guatemalan rainforest to help combat drug trafficking in Central America. The relatively high visibility of Bermudez’ visit is not adventitious, but represents a longstanding Rumsfeld policy of upgrading ties with some of Latin America’s most reprehensible and unsavory military establishments, who during the 1970s and 1980s savaged their nations’ constitutions and citizenry, including in Chile, Argentina, El Salvador and, perhaps most of all, Guatemala.

It was ironic to hear Guatemalan military officers discussing political stability. The armed forces of that Central American nation have long had a reputation for their covert behavior and unqualified brutality, whether they were overthrowing de facto governments almost at will, setting up infamous death squads, staging massacres of indigenous communities in Guatemala’s highlands in their “beans and bullets” crusade, and torturing tens of thousands of civilian victims. Dating back to 1960, it is estimated that almost 200,000 civilians have been put to the sword by the Guatemala military, as part of Washington’s “Cold War”-abetted national security hemispheric policy. The country’s 1960-1996 civil war, which featured unspeakable cruelty, has been sometimes referred to as the “silent Holocaust,” for its mindless slaughter. Unfortunately, the end of military rule and civil war did not bring about a new era featuring highly professional, law-abiding, loyal-to-the-nation armed forces. Nor has the Guatemalan government had the temerity to implement some of the most important of the requirements listed by the country’s “Truth Commission” in 1999. Despite the Guatemalan military’s notorious reputation for drug trafficking, contrabanding and harsh treatment of the indigenous population, the U.S. is once again involving itself in the internal affairs of the country, extending a growing amount of military aid in exchange for the country’s participation in the “war against drugs.” In that war, Washington’s best friend in Central America is the Guatemalan military, closely followed by the Salvadoran and Honduran armed forces. Ironically, the DEA will remind you that in recent years, the Guatemalan military – particularly its G-2, was the prime drug trafficking cartel in the country ...

http://www.coha.org/2006/03/16/guatemala%E2%80%99s-cursed-armed-forces-washington%E2%80%99s-old-friend-is-back-in-town/
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
25. Bear in mind that this is the righwing UK Telegraph. They may be helping the fascists
and the murderer's of Montenegro's daughter, by the way they are framing this story, and interpreting certain facts and leaving some possibly critically important facts out. I'm reminded of Karl Rove's narratives for pre-ordained events, such as Bush/Cheney's 'win' in 2004, accomplished by obviously rigged voting machines. He feeds his phony narrative to the lapdog corporate press about "why we won" (gay marriage, "Soccer mom" fear of "terrorism," their "invisible get out the vote campaign in the churches," etc.), and they lap it up and never look at the impossible numbers or the egregiously riggable new electronic vote tabulation system.

This article, for instance, says some 40 candidates or party leaders have been assassinated so far in this campaign. But they don't say who they are. They just leave that out. Is it 50/50 right/left carnage, or all aimed at leftists, or what? I of course suspect the latter (it's the leftists who are being killed) because they DON'T SAY. Thus we are left with the impression that everyone is violent in Guatemala, which probably not true. It is more than likely all rightwing violence, and more than likely funded, supported and even directly committed by Bush C.I.A. black ops hit men.

The fascist press often uses this tactic (omission of facts). Articles on Colombia, for instance, seem to justify rightwing paramilitary carnage against leftists (union leaders, peasant farmers, community organizers, leftist politicians) by citing the on-going government war on FARC (leftist guerrillas). What they DON'T SAY is that 95% of the carnage is committed by rightwing paramilitaries (some of it paid for by Chiquita Banana) and the rightwing government (made fat with billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars in so-called "war on drugs" military aid), mostly against completely innocent and peaceful people. Thus, you come away from these articles thinking it is a civil war, when it is in fact mass murder as political oppression BY THE RIGHT, funded and supported by, with some of the murders possibly even committed by, the U.S., under the Bush Junta. (Courageous prosecutors and judges in Colombia have recently disclosed the very close ties between the Uribe government--Bush's pals--and the rightwing military death squads.)

Another hole (omitted facts) in the Telegraph article is their reference to the Guatemalan civil war. "...a particularly violent election campaign, even by the standards of a country that endured a bloody 36-year civil war." This was not a "civil war." This was mass murder on staggering, horrifying scale, again as political oppression. TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND Mayan villagers were slaughtered in the 1980s, on suspicion of being "communists," with Saint Ronald Reagan's direct complicity. Pregnant women were skinned alive and their babies slain. Parents were made to watch their children burned alive. Entire villages were murdered and then torched. This rightwing, U.S. supported torture and genocide is made to sound rather tame--a "bloody civil war"--as if it were somehow an equal fight among soldiers. Not so! It was a classist cleansing, to remove an entire population of leftist VOTERS. (The UN "truth and reconciliation" process has recently brought these facts to light--with investigations of the mass graves, and of U.S. documents, etc.).

The fascist press did the same thing with regard to the recent PEACEFUL uprising in Oaxaca, in southern Mexico. It was portrayed as a "violent clash" of government troops and "protesters." It was nothing of the kind! U.S. readers/news viewers (if they get any information at all) are given the impression of "unrest," "disorder," "violent" PROTESTERS, when, in truth, rightwing paramilitaries (once again) in the employ of the fascist governor were kidnapping, torturing, raping and killing hundreds of entirely peaceful people involved in the teachers' union strike (over salaries), and the federales of the rightwing Fox/Calderon government then came in on the side of the rightwing paramilitaries, and inflicted more violence, and smashed the strike and the community peaceful protest that had arisen around it.

The rightwing commits violence, and then the rightwing press portrays it not as it should be portrayed--as the crimes of rightwing thugs and murderers in the employ of fascist politicians and corporate/drug cartel interests--but as GENERAL MAYHEM.

We get a HINT of what's really going on, in the current Guatemalan elections, at the END OF THE ARTICLE (that part that Judy quotes, above) when Mr. Montenegro says, "I am used to the threatening phone calls, the insults, the people calling me a communist....". Who gets called "a communist"? Leftist politicians. He also states his suspicions about who benefits from his daughter's death and the other violence--the rightwing thugs who want everybody to be scared and thus vote for a rightwing thuggish government.

But there is a strong likelihood here that what we are seeing is a Karl Rove-type "narrative" to "explain" another stolen election. Mr. Montenegro is no doubt right in his suspicions of who benefits, but possibly wrong (or half wrong) in what he thinks the point of it is: to get votes. Fascists rarely get votes. They more usually steal votes--or suppress the vote (with violence and other tactics).

I don't trust the poll that the Telegraph cites. The U.S. Bush/NED/USAID was sponsoring FALSE POLLS in Venezuela, to make it appear the recent election won by Hugo Chavez (with 63% of the vote) was a "close race." The false poll was connected to yet another rightwing/CIA plot to destabilize Venezuela and mount yet another fascist military coup attempt (which the opposition candidate publicly disavowed, to his credit). The Telegraph says the Guatemalan poll was by "independent Prensa Libre daily." I'm not sure who they are. But I do know that almost every newspaper and TV/radio station in Latin America is owned and controlled by rightwing corporate news monopolies (just as it is here), some of whom are foaming-at-the-mouth fascists, and, in Venezuela, some of whom have actively participated in violent coup attempts.

So we don't know if the basic premise of the article is true--that, because of the violence, the leftist candidate is losing ground to a fascist candidate who is promising "law and order." What IS clear, however, is that Guatemalans are being terrorized, and whose favorite tactic is that? --in Guantanamo Bay, in Abu Ghraib, in secret prisons all over the globe, on the streets of Baghdad, on the streets of New Orleans, in the mountains of Afghanistan. Fear, terror, torture, thuggery, murder, genocide. "Shock and Awe." The Reagan legacy writ even larger and uglier.

Someone mentioned that Guatemala has no oil--and thus is of little interest to the Bushites and their lapdog corporate press. But there is a lot more going on in Bushite Latin American policy than oil. There is first of all the geopolitical configuration of the western hemisphere. Imagine if there were a Bolivarian Revolution in Guatemala (which is certainly ripe for it--conditions there are similar to conditions in Venezuela, when the Chavez government was elected). The Bolivarian Revolution (grass roots democracy, social justice and Latin American self-determination) has swept South America--winning elections (by big margins) in Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Argentina (and soon Paraguay), with governments that are closely aligned with the leftist governments in Brazil, Uruguay and Chile (and also with Cuba, which doesn't have a political democracy, but is popular, due to its economic democracy). Last year, a leftist--of a very similar Bolivarian type--came within a hairsbreadth--0.05%--of getting elected president of Mexico. (Only last minute, stolen election shenanigans prevented it.)

Beat in mind also that the social revolution that is occurring in Mexico (the Oaxacan uprising, the Zapatista movement) is occurring in southern Mexico on the border with Guatemala (also in Mexico City), where there are cross-border alliances among the indigenous (as there are in the Andes countries, where the indigenous are important leaders of the Bolivarian Revolution; Evo Morales, president of Bolivia, for instance, is 100% indigenous).

If Guatemala and Mexico elect leftist governments, what we would have is an almost solid block of countries from the Mexico/U.S. border to the Antarctic, who are anti-U.S. dominated "free trade," anti-World Bank/IMF, anti-U.S. "war on drugs" corruption, pro-worker, pro-poor people, pro-the Majority, and with Bolivarian goals, such as a Latin American "Common Market" and common currency (to get off the U.S. dollar). Mexico is the Bushites' first line of defense against the free and democratic "brown hordes" of the south who won't cooperate with the U.S./corporate rape of their countries. And Guatemala is the second line of defense. It may not have Mexico's oil, or the rich oil, gas, minerals, forests, fresh water and other resources of the Andes democracies, but it's on the line of march right TO these resources, and if Mexico and Guatemala turn left together, then profit from Mexico's oil, and from sweatshop labor, will be imperiled. The corporate thugs who control our government don't want to share their ungodly profits. They adamantly oppose social justice. What the Bolivarians want is NOT to harm the U.S. but to be EQUAL PARTNERS, with Latin American sovereignty respected. As Evo Morales has said, "We want partners, not bosses."

But that is NOT in our global corporate predators' game plan, as we know. Social justice is out. Local control of resources for the benefit of local people (other the rich few) is out. They don't want partners.

Guatemala is a stepping stone. And considering conditions there, the people must certainly feel stepped upon. And they have been, and are--by the Big Fascist Boot from the north. The rightwing fascists in Guatemala pave the way, and drop rose petals for the conquering corporate forces who are passing through, as they squish the "little people" along the way.

Guatemala is of strategic importance. Fascist control of the government provides a bulwark against the Bolivarian Revolution. It is also a pathway for rightwing paramilitary and Bushite drug trafficking.

So, whatever is going on in this election in Guatemala--whether the bloodshed is scaring some voters and making them want a big daddy protector (police state), or whether this is all just made up, to "explain" the next stolen election--you can be sure that it is of no little interest to the Bush Junta and its puppetmasters. Back in the '80s, when they slaughtered this large segment of the indigenous population, it wasn't primarily for sport. It was because they were LEFTISTS. They wanted fairness and justice. And they were no doubt beginning to get organized to exercise political influence. And THAT was a matter of abiding concern to the Reaganites, as it is today to the Bushites.

One final thing--in the global picture. The U.S. government has game plans for war with China, has new beefed up bases all over the Pacific, including within and off the coasts of Central and South American countries, which would be strategic launching pads for an Asian/Pacific war. The Bolivarian who was elected president of Ecuador--Rafael Correa--had, as one of his campaign planks, not renewing the agreement that allows a U.S. military base on Eduadoran soil. He recently said again that he was not going to renew it. Latin American sovereignty is a big issue to the Bolivarians. The majority wants the base gone. It is a sore point. The vast majority of South Americans condemn the war on Iraq, and want no part of that or any other U.S. corporate resource war. Therefore, friendly fascist governments, like the ones in Colombia and Mexico, are all the more important to the U.S. And the Bushites want one in Guatemala--and we can be sure that they are supporting, funding and/or directly implementing dirty fascist tricks including violence, to achieve their ends.
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Peace Patriot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #25
28. Well, there it is: The Rumsfeld plan for a "war on drugs" base in Guatemala.
Struggles4progress comment #24, above, from coha.org:

"In that meeting, Rumsfeld is expected to address the matter of a renewal of U.S. military aid to Guatemala, and possibly the construction of a DEA base in the Guatemalan rainforest to help combat drug trafficking in Central America."

These "DEA bases" have nothing to do with interdicting drugs, and everything to do with drug trafficking, on a huge scale, and training and arming government and paramilitary forces for the war against the poor. But, ultimately, I believe, they are part of the creation of a worldwide network of U.S. military bases with several WW III scenarios in mind, including war with China. And it is an Asia-Pacific war that would make the western and coastal areas of Latin America so strategically important.

A while back, I read an article by the official California state historian (--can't recall his name--Kevin Phillips?), which I thought very odd. He was talking about the San Diego naval base and its strategic importance for a war in the Pacific. This was 2-3 years ago, soon after the invasion of Iraq, and it hadn't even occurred to me, at that point, that there might be another war in the Pacific. We now know, of course, that China gets much of its oil from Iran, where the Bushites dearly want to slaughter hundreds of thousands more people for their oil, and that China holds much of our debt paper, and can crash the U.S. economy any time it wants to. So war with China has become not so unimaginable as it was, especially given the mass murder loving Bushites (and frankly I'm not sure that the Democratic leadership is any more trustworthy).

The occasion for this state historian's article was some issue about demobilizing the San Diego naval base, and turning it over to the city or something. He opposed it, and used the article to promote the SD naval base's strategic importance and openly discussed the possibility of war in the Pacific with China. At the time, I figured it was war profiteers wanting to keep all that new Bushite military booty flowing into California (so far from the Mideast oil fields). But now I wonder. And I wonder about the need for a "DEA" (i.e., U.S. military) base in Guatemala, especially in view of the sentiment of the overwhelming majority of South Americans against U.S. bases on their soil, and the election of so many leftist (majorityist) governments which oppose it.

Just one other fact in this picture. Paraguay now has a wonderful man running for president--Fernando Lugo ("the bishop of the poor")--who is way ahead in the polls, and will likely win. It appears that the Bushites had Paraguay picked out as one of its bases of operations for its war against the Andes democracies (Venezuela, Bolivia and Ecuador)--in addition to its obvious Colombia base--and for its other evil purposes--major drug trafficking, the war on the poor in general, and world war. They turned the minor U.S. airstrip in Paraguay into a major U.S. military air base, and rumor had it that the Bush Cartel had purchased several hundred thousand acres of land in Paraguay, on top of a major aquifer. Lugo--I'm sure to protect his own life--recently made some statements to distance himself from the Bolivarians. He said something like, "We are not political. We are poor. Our people need bread. Right or left, it doesn't matter." But I'm sure he is not that naive. He just has a target on his back. Even the current rightwing government of Paraguay can see the advantages of Bolivarianism, and became a member of the Bank of the South (which was started by Venezuela to replace the World Bank--global corporate predator loan sharks). If the Paraguayan people go on to elect a leftist president who is a strong advocate for the poor--Lugo--he will more than likely align with the Bolivarians in Venezuela, Bolivia, Ecuador and Argentina, and this will throw a monkey wrench into Bushite/global corporate predator plans. The Bolivarian Revolution is immensely successful and popular. I can't see that Lugo would have much choice but to align with them. It would be very beneficial to Paraguay; whereas all the Bushites have to offer is ruinous "free trade" and unwanted militarism.

What I'm saying is: Look out for Bushite interference in Paraguay. And be aware of Bushite strategies and goals in countries like Guatemala, where there is not much to steal, but which have political and military importance, as well as importance in drug and other illicit trade (including weapons). In the case of Guatemala, they are stealing from U.S. taxpayers, to feed their death machine. And they are facing dwindling options, in Latin America, in general, on "free trade," illicit trade and military bases.
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EnricoFermi Donating Member (139 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 02:05 PM
Response to Original message
26. Contact your local CIA agent
Because you know they played a part, like they did before, and like currently are in more and more of the Americas due to the growing number of leaders that are not U.S. corporation friendly. Whether it is messing with elections, controlling and supporting media organizations, supporting terrorists, militias, and other killers, or just economically destabilizing them. It isn't honorable and is at the cost of countless civilians so that some can make a buck.

The organization needs to be disbanded and the members tried for murder, but I know that will never happen. It isn't just war, it is organized crime and genocide with hundreds of thousands paying the price. Then we glorify them in books and movies as if they are secret warriors somehow bettering mankind. They are out of control.

It just isn't right.
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BrainGlutton Donating Member (202 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 07:15 PM
Response to Original message
35. It's horrible, but how can a mere 40 political murders put a country "on the brink of ruin"?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #35
36. The CIA is not a defender or protector of democracy.
The CIA has one goal: Capitalism The main goal is to promote, defend & protect Capitalism & to overthrow any country's leadership that does not embrace Capitalism that favors America's Multi-Natl. Corps.
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lostnfound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 09:47 PM
Response to Reply #35
38. Terrorize 1, warn 1000. That's how. It's standard operating procedure
for the thugs trained by the dark side. It's how they "deter democracy". It's not just murders. It's fingernails pulled out of their children. It hearkens back to the 1970s and 1980s. It's deja vu for some of these people, no doubt.
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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
40. What kind of people are even capable of such things?
Edited on Sun Aug-26-07 11:46 PM by drm604
I'll never understand things like this. How could anyone look at the child in that picture and do those things to her? How could anyone torture a child in that way? HOW? I don't understand. I'll never understand. This makes me sick.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-26-07 11:54 PM
Response to Reply #40
41. It is because you don't understand that you fail.
You can't comprehend the capacity of apparently normal human beings to commit evil. Well, they do. And until you understand that, you will never accomplish anything in life. You may not even accomplish life for very long, if you run into one of these people you can't understand.

This is the tragedy of the 1960's and too many of the New Left kids; they never understood how people could be evil, and therefore they had no way of stopping that evil. For too many of them, evil was a concept like the posessed girl in The Exorcist. They never understood how evil could reside in that nice lady down the block whom they wave to...who happens to abuse her daughter nightly.


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drm604 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 12:01 AM
Response to Reply #41
42. I'm hardly a kid
and you have no idea what I have or haven't accomplished in life. :eyes:
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 02:27 AM
Response to Reply #42
46. Age does not mean an end to innocence.
I still see people who honestly believe all the hippie philosophy of the 1960's. They've never figured out that every human has the potential for immense evil, and when they get bit by it, they just puzzle over it.

You're right, I don't know you or what you've done. But I know what you've written. And as long as you refuse to believe there's a switchblade being clutched in each hidden hand, you'll never have an effective approach to life.
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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 06:05 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. The kind of people that would destroy a country to remain in power
We're seeing it today in the US.

The Guatemalans don't have the resources to destroy other countries, so they kill each other.
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tomreedtoon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Aug-28-07 02:34 AM
Response to Reply #43
47. That's the definition of a third world country.
Third world countries, almost always, have their populations warring against each other. They fight over things like religion, soccer games, ancient racial grudges and other nonsensical things. That enables various manipulators to attain and gain power. It doesn't help their nation as a whole, but those ruling classes never cared all that much about their nation, only their personal power.

Which is why America isn't truly a third world country. True, it's the reds versus the blues; the thing we seem to be fighting over, after all this time, is "Who lost the Vietnam War and wrecked American life?" (My mechanic, for the most part an honest and worthy man, is still fighting Jane Fonda. And he ain't alone.)

The one thing that keeps America from being a third world country is that our leaders, while they may be greedy, actually have a higher ideal in mind for America. They are fighting wars for the greater glory of this country above all others, something that no tinpot dictatorship would ever try to do. It's not much to be proud of, but it keep America from having the status of, say, Guatemala.
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Judi Lynn Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-29-07 09:36 AM
Response to Reply #47
48. You need to read the history of the United States and Guatemala.
It will take you a while to start seeing the picture, evidently.

Please don't let any time weigh on your hands before you start reading on what has been happening in Latin America all this time.

A good place to start would be to start researching what happened in Guatemala to President Arbenz, during the Presidency of Dwight D. Eisenhower, involving the United Fruit Company, a HUGE organization which owned a huge part of Guatemala, having bought it for almost nothing, and exploiting the native workers and their children, paying them almost nothing whatsoever, and continuing that practice up into the present. It's current name is "Chiquita."

Please take time to read from more than one source, and don't stop until you finally understand what happened.

It's a miracle our own country may be working its way out from under the death sentence to this democracy attempted by the right-wing, through the thrusting of George Bush into a position no one sensible would believe he's qualified to fill.

We are not out of the woods here, by any means. If you think it has a thing to do with a lofty national moral sensibility, you REALLY need to stop watching tv and start catching up on a whole lot of reading.

Pick ANY country in Latin America.

Read "Confessions of an Economic Hitman." Don't waste any more of your own time. It's a sin to be dependent on stories you were told as a child, without testing their truthfulness.
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 07:54 AM
Response to Original message
44. UN Security Council
I could be remembering wrong, but i thought there was an open spot on the UN SC last year that Venezuela was vying for. The US put up Guatemala (through back channels?) as its candidate instead. Was it a different Latin American country? Who got the spot? Maybe i'll google it...

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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Aug-27-07 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
45. here ya go...
Now why would we think they'd be better at "Security"? And didn't we stop selling them arms or something?

An anti-Chavez link about the UN Security Council debacle:
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/02/world/americas/02nations.html?ex=1320123600&en=e7dd01652b514671&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

yikes, long link, hope it works...

If not, i googled "UN Security Council, Guatemala" and got a host of links...

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