Can you imagine if the Polio vaccine was invented today?

Here's the thing--- Big Pharma has made it that we simply can't trust them. Their greed counteracts anything that they may do to help mankind. Hence the debate that is currently taking place here on DU about the cervical cancer vaccine.

because the same loonies who were against the polio vaccine are still around and they've just coopted hatred for pharma companies into their conspiracy theories.

I work on the research side of the industry, so I know a lot people typically would not know.

The reason we have regulatory bodies to oversee drug development is to keep companies honest. Scientific research produces substantial social benefits - but it also poses troubling ethical questions. Reported abuses of human subjects in biomedical experiments during WW II, especially during the Nuremberg War Crimes Trials drew public attention to these questions. The Nuremberg Code was drafted as a set of standards for judging physicians and scientists who had conducted biomedical experiments on concentration camp prisoners. The code became the prototype of many later codes and regulations (like the FDA) to assure that research involving human subjects would be carried out in an ethical manner.

Pharmaceutical companies are driven by profit. We cannot assume they will operate ethically, so the FDA was established to make sure they do. Over the last six years of the Bush administration and the obvious corporate cow-towing we've seen, I am not as confident the FDA is doing its job to protect human subjects and those in the general population who will eventually be exposed to new drugs.

Whether or not a drug works and whether or not a drug is safe are two entirely different issues. My concern over this vaccine (and a vaccine IS a drug) is safety; if adequate safety studies were done prior to FDA approval, and prior to inoculating millions of girls. I am not convinced they were.

As sticky paper catching the fly. Now you have a little more insight as to who works for pharmaceutical lobbying/PR groups on DU.

the CONSPIRACY!!!!!!

give me a break.

the vaccine is bc they work for Big Pharma.

Bullshit.

sub-standard or inadequate. We do not have insight into the process, we wouldn't know what journals to query or have access to the ways one would query them.

What protocols were not followed? What sample sizes were used? Why were they inadequate? What examples can you provide that would show that the FDA is now compromised and that inadequate testing is no longer a very low frequency occurrence in the approval process?

How many drugs has the FDA approved since 2001? How many of them have caused more harm than good? In what ways has regulation been compromised?

The reaction to this particular vaccine by the vast majority here at DU has been knee-jerk at best, often using the canard of mercury contained in vaccines and leading to a large increase in the diagnosis of autism. This is a pretty well debunked item. Study after study has shown this to be inaccurate, yet again and again the anti-vaccination crowd consistently point to a single study that has been debunked as their "proof" along with the standard, for the alt-medicine crowd, anecdotal evidence.

Give us a reason to doubt beyond "I think the Bush administration has screwed up the FDA"

:eyes:

and for the same reasons you stated

I do not trust this drug in today's environment.

I am against a mandate.

They categorized it as "required" because that's the only way to get it covered by insurance and public health care systems.

You would prefer that it would only be available for those who have lots of money???

those who want to try a vaccine that hasn't been extensively testing on 9 year old girls can.

Don't force public health to pay for this very new questionable drug which could do some very serious damage.

If you want to use this brand new drug, that is your choice and your money. Or at least it should be a choice. You want it to be mandatory.

The public healthcare system is overloaded as it is. It is shameful to make the system pay for this shiny new funny drug which rode into town on tons of GOP lobbyist money.

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there were loonies opposing it, they weren't making much noise where I lived. We had clinics at public schools where whole families would line up and wait for hours to receive the shots.

I remember lining up with my whole family at school, but for the sugar cube vaccine, not the shot.

cards home for the parents to sign and the county health nurse would come to the various schools and administer the vaccinations. For the polio vaccine, however, they sent teams to centrally located schools and people in the surrounding areas could come and get the shots.

is quite a compliment.

But as you know, I'm not against vaccines. My children are fully vaccinated, except for the one vaccine (the older version of the DPT, that has since been replaced with a safer version) that caused them serious adverse effects (including a leg tremor in one child that lasted for months, and a week of seizures in another) . This was the same vaccine that my baby sister had died from. So call me a loony, if that makes you happy. But I think I'm right to be cautious.

One reason for the debate, in my view, is that we're dealing with a disease that's nothing like polio. HPV doesn't spread through casual contact, and it isn't spreading like wildfire. Because of pap smears -- which will still be necessary -- it contributes only about 1% of deaths from cancer a year (and doesn't kill any children at all, unlike polio.)

And the other reason is that the vaccine has JUST been released. There's no emergency that requires that it be mandated now, before we know if any adverse effects come to light as it is increasingly given to the general population -- or as we work out the kinks in administering the vaccine. (For example, some doctors are giving the vaccine to girls along with other vaccines, although it was never tested in combination with other vaccines. Also, some girls, like my relative with epilepsy, have been given the vaccine even though the protocol calls for them NOT to receive it.)

Oh yes, there's that argument that it MUST be mandated so that lower-income girls can receive it. The problem is, that also puts lower income girls right up front in the guinea pig line, as we now proceed to test out the vaccine on millions of girls in the general population (as opposed to the small, carefully controlled studies). That doesn't seem fair to me, but I guess it does to you.

They want to make money. Big pharm. companies do not care about people, altruism is way low on what drives them. Smaller research firms may care, may be about making money also. To say that those of us who distrust big pharm. companies motives are conspiracy theory loonies is insulting. There is a reason to distrust them.

They buy out patents from smaller companies to hold the patents, not to make whatever the medicine is available. For example there was a case in the 70's about factor VIII (8), blood factor needed for clotting that is missing in some hemopheliacs (I was working with a group of hemopheliacs at the time). A small company figured out a way to make it affordably and safely. The smaller co could not afford to go through all the processes to market it, so sold it to a bigger co. The big co sat on it. Why sell a cheaper product when you could make more on it?

Sorry, but big pharm companies have shown over and over and over that they are out for the money.

from the polio vaccine. No vaccine has ever been without risk. Our parents and grandparents were happy for progress. Nothing has changed. There have been people opposed to new-fangled medicine forever.

because the live Sabin vaccine, which not only boosted immunity, but drastically reduced the number of carriers, was preferred to the dead Salk one. I don't know if people would accept the greater risk needed to eradicate the virus nowadays. Probably not.

If people hadn't put the massive benefit ahead of the miniscule risk? We're spoiled is what we are.

problem solved.

then that would be a legitimate concern. Jonas Salk was out to cure polio. These companies are out to make a profit. They don't care what their products do to us, so long as we don't sue them. Vaccines contain all kinds of poisonous chemicals, including formaldehyde and mercury. You shouldn't take a vaccine unless you absolutely have to.

Now, it's very important to cure HPV, especially for women. But we can't just run headlong into a dangerous solution. We have to be wary of the dangers. I know if I had a little girl, I wouldn't want her to be poisoned by a vaccine that I was promised would save her from cervical cancer. We have to use our brains when it comes to important things like this.

Yes, lets.

There is NO formaldehyde or mercury in the HPV vaccine.

"The vaccine also contains amorphous aluminum hydroxyphosphate sulfate, sodium chloride, L-histidine, polysorbate 80, sodium borate, and water for injection."

Aluminum, salt, amino acid protein. Polysorbate 80 is used in ice cream. Sodium borate is borax, a pH stabilizer.

That's it. Used in the hepatitis vaccines for years.


http://depts.washington.edu/hhpccweb/article-detail.php?ArticleID=340&ClinicID=17

First of all, the vaccine is against HPV which may (not does) cause cervical cancer.

The fact that this vaccine is being MARKETED as a vaccine for cervical cancer, when it is really a vaccine that is partially effective against SOME of the HPV viruses speaks volumes to any thinking person, and is a major difference between what happened with the polio vaccines in the 1950's.

Second, who discovered the HPV vaccine? What is her or his name?

The polio vaccines were discovered by Sabin (oral) and Salk (injected).

The HPV vaccine was discovered by a money-grubbing, lying corporation.

The vaccine is an Australian discovery, by Professor Ian Frazer from the University of Queensland's Centre for Immunology and Cancer Research (CICR).

For 20 years, Professor Frazer has been researching the link between papilloma viruses and cancer, seeking ways to treat these viruses in order to reduce the incidence of cancer.

He was named "Australian of the Year".

Most every reputable scientist in the field is convinced of that.

This will not prevent all cancer just like the Sabin vaccine did not stamp out polio (because some kids got it from the shot). But it will ptevent a lot. One cannot let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Not everyone who gets the HPV will get cervical cancer.

HPV is not like HIV.

If someone gets the HIV Virus, they WILL get AIDS (unless they receive treatment). (And, yes, I am aware that there are a few people who are HIV positive, but who have not been treated and who do not have AIDS).

So, the HIV Virus causes AIDS.

But not everyone who gets HPV gets cervical cancer. So it is not correct to say that HPV causes cervical cancer.

Besides, some people get cervical cancer without ever getting HPV.

...but how does anyone know whether or not they will or will not get cervical cancer from HPV? Isn't taking a proactive stance better than not doing anything at all?

The HPV-cervical cancer connection has been sufficiently proven for many of us to want our daughters to have this vaccine. If they will never get it, even without the shot, great. The vaccine just gives them extra protection. I'm not turning my back on that.

What other people do/think/feel about this is their business, and just as they don't want people making decisions about the health and welfare of their children, I don't want them making the same decisions about mine.

corporation.

And robots

and aliens

and mad scientists working with robots and aliens and North Koreans!

Don't forget the Jews! :rofl:

If so, all I can say is God bless their Jewish motheres for sending them to medical school!

See? Clearly they were part of the conspiracy!

I know this because the machines in my teeth told me so.

create interference with your teeth reception? I'm always having that problem!

shiny side OUT shiny side OUT shiny side OUT

You are most correct to say that robots were discovered by a money-grubbing, lying corporation.

But I do not think that any corporation discovered aliens. I do, however, think that there are many many corporations that exploit aliens (immigrants, really) who come to this country for work. Look at the agribusiness industry, and the meat-packing industries.

I have no clue about who discovered mad scientists who work with aliens and North Koreans. Are you talking about the film industry in Los Angeles, perhaps?