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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:55 PM
Original message
Obama isn't really black? Huh?
Heard it on NPR today. He's being criticized by African-Americans that he isn't really black because he isn't decended from slaves? What the...?
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ceile Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
1. Was that someone they interviewed on the street?
An uneducated person I hope-not an NPR contributor.
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bif Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. I wasn't really paying attention
But it was from an NPR host repeating a comment some folks were making.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #1
43. The woman on the Corbert show said this the other night
I don't know who she was, but she did state this. Corbert got her a few times, the last thing he asked her was if Obama was made a slave, not in a racist way, but if Jesse Jackson or Al Sharpton made him their slave and then set him free, would that give him street cred? She sit there for a minute, then laughed weakly and said, "Yeah, I guess it would." Enough said. Anyone that thinks you have to be a descendent from slaves to be identified as "black" in this country is living in a dream world. And having a white mother does not change that either. I can attest to that from personal experiences.
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kdmorris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:57 PM
Response to Original message
2. From what I heard
Alan Keyes started that little bit of bullshit.... and we all know how nuts he is.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. That would make sense. Maybe it's a divide and conquer strategy of some sort. n/t
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:19 AM
Response to Reply #5
36. Does his politics matter?
Look, I love the guy mainly for his politics and the fact that he looks Black. But given his parents and upbringing would I be as consistent in praising him and proclaiming his right to be African-American, instead of multiracial, if he so chooses, if he had turned out to be a Republican and become Secretary of State or something similar? Probably not, but maybe. What if he had a white wife and one of their kids wanted to run for President one day (since we are in the era of family dynasties). Would I accept this kid as an African-American? I don't know.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 04:58 PM
Response to Original message
3. Same criticism from African Americans on CSPAN WJ this morning.
"He's not really black." :eyes:

I figure it's the latest RW talking point courtesy of Rove and Company because I'm hearing it everywhere.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:00 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. I want to match those folks up with the folks who say this country
isn't ready to elect a black man yet!
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:22 PM
Response to Reply #6
18. Oy! n/t
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me b zola Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:10 PM
Original message
Was it a female AA writer for Salon?
I ask because last night on Colbert there was an AA female writer for Salon who was espousing the same thing. It makes me wonder WTH is going on @ Salon.
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CottonBear Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
19. The caller was a woman. I Don't know who she was. n/t
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3waygeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:44 PM
Response to Original message
30. Debra Dickerson is her name
she's been writing for Salon for quite a while -- her original "Obama isn't black" article was published there a couple weeks back.
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dogday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #3
23. Absolutely, I have already heard this on Faux
They have spoken that he was somewhat privileged growing up and he has no knowledge of blacks and their needs...

Its a bunch of poo that the right is slinging..


Smells like Rove to me....... :shrug:
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
7. Sounds like a Kkkarl byte to me.
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idealistMO Donating Member (40 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:04 PM
Response to Original message
8. according to LimpBalls...
Obama is Halfrican
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:30 AM
Response to Reply #8
39. That's just... wrong.
Ick.
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JustABozoOnThisBus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:05 PM
Response to Original message
9. delete
Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 05:05 PM by JustABozoOnThisBus
never mind.
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seasat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
10. Here's the basis for the criticism.
Y'all need to check out the brief interview by Stephen Colbert night with Debra Dickerson of Salon (LINK). Stephen exposes it for a rather ridiculous critcism.
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:09 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. I loved how she said "he's not african american" he's "african american"
or something like that. really nutty. Stephen handled her well.
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wellst0nev0ter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:07 PM
Response to Original message
11. *Sigh* He Heard That Same Bullshit During His Senate Race
Alan Keyes always going about how proud he is about his slave heritage and how Obama isn't an authentic African American.

Obama ended up grabbing 92 percent of the black vote. If there's one lesson the reichwingers have failed to learn, even after years and years of failure, it is that blacks aren't stupid.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:58 AM
Response to Reply #11
44. Ecactly, that old arguement just did not fly here in Illinois.
the only time here lately that I have been proud of this state is when he was elected and the governor (don't have time to figure out the spelling of his name) was re-elected.
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LSK Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
12. so I guess the whole basis of his entire campaign is blown now
Edited on Fri Feb-09-07 05:08 PM by LSK
There goes his slogan "Elect me because Im black"

:sarcasm: :sarcasm: :sarcasm:

Seriously can the media create more strawmen? There just isnt enough out there.
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Hav Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:27 PM
Response to Reply #12
22. .
Exactly. At least I don't see Obama running around shouting "I'm black! I'm black!!" or that he is demanding that all "the real Blacks" should vote for him.
After all the shit Harold Ford had to go through, suddenly the new talking point is "He's not black enough"?
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:08 PM
Response to Original message
13. They're right
He's really more of a shade of cocoa brown.
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #13
46. And I'm a blushing peach,
but they still call me white. ;)
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:09 PM
Response to Original message
15. There's thread similar to this at GD-Politics.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x3103477

The argument as I, a white guy, understand it is that recent immigrants from Africa and the Carribean do not suffer from psychological effects of slavery to the extent that the descendants of slaves do, though they are affected by the same daily discrimination and racism. First and second generation immigrants have higher capita incomes and high college attendance rates than the descendants of slaves do. The fact that they, or their parents, were born in Africa or the Carribean has insulated them from much of the psychological damage suffered by American slaves and their descendants.
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lapfog_1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:10 PM
Response to Original message
16. racism exists in a lot of forms

One of the most overtly racist acts I ever saw was when I was traveling in the Virgin Islands.

My girlfriend and I went to a local nightspot (we are both white) and were having a couple of drinks at the bar...
a single black man sat down near us and tried to order a drink from the bartender... he tried everything to politely and then not so politely get the man's attention (a local black man). Nothing worked. I then ordered another round of drinks for me and my girlfriend... and included a drink for the man next to us... which we received. But as soon as I slid the drink over to him, the bartender asked that we all leave, immediately! He grabbed a baseball bat from under the bar to make his point... I thought jeez, who IS this guy that we bought a drink for??? some kind of criminal? So we all left and on the way out, he told us that this would be his only trip to the Islands, he was a photographer from LA there to do a shoot, and he had NEVER been treated so bad as by the local black people in the islands. Simply because he was a well dressed, successful, "continental" (the term they used for black people from the 48 states).

This was 20 years ago, but it shocked me and opened my eyes to idea that racism doesn't need a skin color to go with it.
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smalll Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:12 PM
Response to Original message
17. But then, the Church he goes to is so "black"-centered that
it isn't even Christian, according to Tucker Carlson! :wtf:
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
20. Kerry wasn't a war hero...Obama isn't really black...
Yeah, yeah, yeah... we've seen this movie before.



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azurnoir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
21. Seems like the noise machine is trying to play on
the divide between American born Blacks and African born Blacks, there is one to a degree. I have heard some Africans say that American born descended from slaves Blacks are not really Black because they are racially mixed, the last part is true to a certain extent, less then 10% of American blacks are 100% Black most have some American Indian ancestry due to the fact that some tribes sold "excess" women to slave owners as "breeding stock", however IMHO if the majority of people consider you Black and treat you accordingly for good or ill; then you are Black.
Note here, I am speaking as the mom of 3 bi-racial daughters.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
24. HE'S NOT BLACK!!11 HE'S IRAQI!! BARACK 'HUSSEIN' OBAMA/OSAMA
:sarcasm:

:eyes:

On a serious note though, some people do make a distinction between american blacks who have ancestry in this country vs. those who have ancestry in other countries. Obama's background doesn't make him any less black, although some people might question his ability to relate to the 'african american' experience.
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hedgehog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 05:38 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. That's it - let Obama take the cab test! Just let him try to catch a taxi
some night. That'll show if he's black enough or not!
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rebel with a cause Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:01 AM
Response to Reply #25
47. According to them he should be driving one.
:sarcasm:
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Crunchy Frog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 06:02 PM
Response to Original message
26. Well, he just needs to change his ancestry then.
He needs to learn not to commit political gaffes such as having the wrong parents, if he ever wants to be taken seriously as a candidate. I mean, this is even worse than Kerry's botched joke. :sarcasm:
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 06:25 PM
Response to Original message
27. saw that on Colbert Report.
He's AFRICAN African American, not an African American.

Reminds me of the story about Maya Angelou's visit to Nigeria and was waxing eloquent on happy she was to be back to the land of her "roots" and how she was proud to be an African. A Nigerian woman interrupted her and told her, "You are NOT an African. *I* am an African. You are just an American."

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Bucky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:53 PM
Response to Reply #27
33. She was bright and tough and played in Colbert's game pretty good. But in the end....
Colbert made her look like an idiot, just like he always does. She even admitted "Okay, now I'm confused." The audience laughed, cause she was such a good sport about it. But her argument boils down to this: he's an American whose family came from Africa, therefor he just can't be African American. That "African African American" comment was just lame.

He's not the descendent of West African slaves from the United States. I wonder if really mattered when he was a kid and faced discrimination. Lika a potential employer is going to look at him and say "Oh wait, you father is from Kenya, not Watts. Okay, the job is yours."

I wonder if this writer would conclude that, because I've never burned a cross in anyone's yard, I'm not really a Southern white.
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mzteris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:09 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. what really started bothering me
was the fact that I have an adopted black son. We're white.

Would she say HE's "not black" because he was raised in a white household/environment?

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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #33
40. Right?
I could *almost* understand the argument if he was raised in another country and then came here, because he would not have grown up under that clowd of white American privledge and institutional racism... but he did grow up here. And whether his great great great grandparents were African slaves or not, people in this country would assume so, and treat him as such.

This is all such a load of crap.

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Spider Jerusalem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #27
53. To be fair...
that's something that Americans of any ethnic background are going to experience if they go to their ancestral homeland and call themselves "African", "Irish", "Scottish", "French", etc. The fact that most of your ancestors came from somewhere three or four hundred years ago doesn't mean you did. Most of my ancestors were from England; that doesn't make me English.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 06:27 PM
Response to Original message
28. Where does he stand on the issues?
What difference does it make if he's black or white?

In fact, he's both.

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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:43 PM
Response to Reply #28
29. Exactly , a multicultural president would be identified with most..
...of the country and the world ,except for those inner bred european Americans,like me a canuck.
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:59 AM
Response to Reply #29
45. I think it would be good for us to have someone a little more
international - which Senator Obama is, since he is of Kenyan descent.

Though in the end I would vote based on their stands on the issues.
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ZacharyG Donating Member (39 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:45 PM
Response to Reply #28
31. Obama: If You Look African-American, You are Treated Like One
Sorry to link to the Drudge Report, but nowhere else is reporting this yet:


OBAMA: IF YOU LOOK AFRICAN-AMERICAN, YOU ARE TREATED LIKE ONE
Fri Feb 9 2007 15:51:32 ET

Acknowledging that his presidential campaign has opened a racial debate, Sen. Barack Obama, who has a white mother and an African father, says if you look African-American, you are treated like one. Obama and his wife, Michelle, who also addresses the race issue, appear in an interview with Steve Kroft to be broadcast on 60 MINUTES, Sunday Feb. 11 (7:00-8:00 PM, ET/PT) on the CBS television Network. If, as expected, Obama declares his formal candidacy for the Democratic presidential nomination tomorrow, it will be his first interview to be broadcast after that event.

When asked by Kroft if growing up in a white household had caused him to make a decision to be black, Obama replies, "I'm not sure I decided it. I think... if you look African American in this society, you're treated as an African-American.Ó "It's interesting though, that now I feel very comfortable and confident in terms of who I am and where I stake my ground. But I notice that... I've become a focal point for a racial debate," says Obama.

Obama's wife also addresses the race issue when asked by Kroft whether she fears for her husband's life as a black candidate. "I don't lose sleep over it because the realities are that... as a black man... Barack can get shot going to the gas station," says Michelle Obama. "You can't make decisions based on fear and the possibility of what might happen."

Will being African-American hold him back as a candidate? "No.... If I don't win this race it will be because of other factors -- I have not shown to the American people a vision for where the country needs to goÉthat they can embrace," Obama tells Kroft.


http://drudgereport.com/flash2.htm
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Katherine Brengle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:36 AM
Response to Reply #31
41. Exactly - black is black in this country, whether you are the descendent of
slaves or a Puerto Rican immigrant.

People see COLOR - they aren't going to sit there and study your genealogy to see if they should discriminate against you or not.

:eyes:
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #31
48. So Senator Obama is being treated like someone seriously
running for President. Only the most extreme racists would think he can't do the job on account of half his race alone.

Those who call him an "inauthentic black" disagree, too, since they claim he cannot understand their experience.

But then they by their own admission can't understand his.
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HamdenRice Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:51 PM
Response to Original message
32. It's a serious issue. I'll be posting something about this ...
tomorrow or the day after. I won't go into it now, but maybe we can discuss this seriously in the near future.
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Solo_in_MD Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Feb-09-07 07:54 PM
Response to Original message
34. Its more subtle: Its not that he is not black, it is that he is not really an African American
since he did not grow up in a large city or the south. Some of this murmuring is attributed to African American leaders who are feeling upstaged and the Obama has not paid his dues. Is the above true? I have no clue, but I have certainly heard it and read it.

What is true that he was raised in Hawaii by a white mother and went to a very prestigous prep school, chock full of the island's wealthiest kids, which is not a typical African American background. I don't consider this an issue, but some may. Full disclosure: I went to the same school on scholarship and graduated several classes ahead of him. www.punahou.edu

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tabasco Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:06 AM
Response to Reply #34
49. ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzz z z . . . . . .
Edited on Sat Feb-10-07 11:06 AM by tabasco
:boring:

Tiresome stuff Solo. Get a new schtick or perhaps get a life.
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cgrindley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:26 AM
Response to Original message
37. It's a common argument and has been for years
A lot of people define an "African American" as a person whose ancestors were enslaved and brought to America. Maybe some people are making a distinction between African Americans and Black Americans, as it could be argued that not all Black Americans are "African Americans". Some are immigrants from all over the world. For that matter, I know plenty of people from Nigeria and the Cote d'Ivoire, Ghana, Burkina Faso and so on, who wouldn't even want to be described as anything other than their original nationality or tribal identity. Others, like Obama, who are by birth Americans, are nevertheless not descended from people who were enslaved. I think that the issue is too complex for easy labels.

I suppose that some people would probably describe Obama a bi-racial American-African.

I work in a very very very poor part of the US, practically the poorest congressional district in the entire country. Obama's upbringing simply cannot be compared to what people around where I work deal with. Personally, I don't think it matters very much as people will identify him according to their own agendas. It's probably an issue that good sidetrack intelligent debate about the real issues.

I support him for President, although I'd rather see him as Hilary's VP.
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pampango Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:54 AM
Response to Reply #37
54. Excellent post. Obama is "Black" as far as I am concerned.
But it is a fact that first and second generation immigrant Blacks have higher incomes and educational achievements than do "African Americans." Immigrants in any country typically work harder than nonimmigrants. That is the main reason that they immigrated in the first place.

They and particularly their children graduate from college at higher percentages. Immigrants want their children to become "American" and achieve a better life (not that the rest of us don't but we may not be as motivated as someone who pulled up roots and moved to a foreign country to achieve our goals.)

Do immigrant Blacks suffer from the same daily racism that African Americans do? Of course, they do. But it would be hard to argue that they do not escape some of the effects of the "legacy of slavery" that effects many low-income and inner city African Americans.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:29 AM
Response to Original message
38. i saw the woman on colbert report. it is something n/t
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Beelzebud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:15 AM
Response to Reply #38
51. And she dug herself an idealogical hole. African African American.
What the fuck was her point there?

If his father was actually from Africa, he's actually MORE of an African American.

Her calling him "African African-America" was redundant and stupid.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 12:03 PM
Response to Reply #51
55. i thought so. n/t
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undeterred Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 10:50 AM
Response to Original message
42. He's not black ENOUGH
That's the real issue. Needs more black experience and darker skin. A little ebonics training and shoe polish should fix him right up. :sarcasm:
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Roxy66 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:12 AM
Response to Original message
50. I'm sorry....but THIS is RACIST!! He's not black enough?
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treestar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Feb-10-07 11:18 AM
Response to Reply #50
52. Exactly! What racist BS! And as if, if he becomes the nominee
the Repukes aren't going to be emphasizing his "foreign" background and exaggerating the "madrassa" he went to.

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