I've come to the conclusion not that English is evil as a language but

that I can't support forcing it on people who's ancestral culture does not contain it. 312 years ago people who had taken over the island of the majority of my ancestors forced English on them, and it did not work out for our betterment at all. Differing languages should be now as they should have been then respected.

I am not saying people learning a predominate language in the country or society where they are is not a good thing. There really is no way to say learning anything is bad.

They (including my ancestors) chose to come here.

ya can't learn a new language overnight. :shrug:

and any number of other indigenous languages, then. Oh, and those of us from the Southwest definitely should have spoken at least one additional language! Since we chose to come here.

now, speak Cherokee". I saw that bumper sticker the other day. :rofl:

tried to do to the Welsh (forbid them talking in their language). Our line of thinking actually follows the language we speak. Think of the German language and Germans, Italian and Italians, and French and French people---their personalities fit their languages. Other languages have words for things and concepts that English does not.

Kill the language, kill the culture.

could be both. equal. interdependent.

Puerto Rico for example. After the US invasion at the end of the 1800's switching the language to English was attempted. Puerto Rican Culture and political system was well developed then and the change was impossible. Changing the language of a nation proves to be difficult IMO based of this case. People are very concerned about the immigration issue, that the USA will lose its culture and language. That won't happen.

And English isn't alone in borrowing words and phrases from other languages (although English does do more such borrowing than any other language, at least in part because of the extent of the spread of English due to British imperialism from the 1600's to the early 1900's).


And it's really rather silly to say that personality is shaped by language; by CULTURE, yes, but culture is to a large extent independent of language (look at the differences between a stereotypical New Yorker, influenced by the culture of Jewish, Italian, and Irish immigrants, a stereotypical Southerner, influenced by the culture of English and Scots-Irish immigrants, and a stereotypical western Pennsylvanian, influenced by the culture of German and Polish immigrants...all of them speak English, yet they're dissimilar in other important cultural respects, and what you call "personality").

Can anyone translate what this person is saying? If I got to france to live I learn french... if I go to puerto rico, i learn spanish (with a puerto rican inflection), if I go to Rome, I learn Italian, If I go to Germany I learn German, If I go to India I learn Hindi etc.

WTF is this person saying. If the argument is that people who come to America DON'T have to learn English, then you are condemning these people to a disadvantage. It has NOTHING to do with some sort of American Nationalism born from some xenophobic racist asshole. It has to do with fucking waking up to the reality that you are in a new country that you NEED to ADAPT to.

What the fuck is wrong with you people. If I moved to Europe, the first PRACTICTAL thing I would do is learn the fucking language. I would not expect Italy, France, Germany, Saudi Arabia, Japan, China to adapt to me.... It is MY responsibility to adapt to THEM. I came into THEIR country.

HAVE we all gone insane or does that not seem fucking reasonable to me?

Who the fuck is ANYONE to come into ANY country and expect that country to adapt to their needs...

On the flipside...anyone who comes to America need not abandon their cultural practices or language when they come here, but don't expect the dominant society to adhere to your every whim.

of immigrants here...much the opposite, in fact.

But there are areas and good people who do work to be accepting of Americans' choices of languages.

not only is my state accepting, but it's just the way we live. I personally think it adds quite a bit to life itself in terms of cultural diversity and enrichment. It's not threatening at all. I don't understand this language xenophobia or whatever it is.

...a person who speaks Spanish, yet all the signs in stores etc. are now in English and Spanish.
We do have French speakers and some Chinese too. Where are the signs in their native languages for their convenience? :shrug:

That someone else might be helped? How could that possibly hurt you?

who owns the stores or who is the market targeting? It is not about "discriminating" against other cultures but about markets. We are still talking about stores right?

"E Plurubus Unum", or "Out of many, one" (or is it "From many, one"?). Meaning, people from all over the world come here, but when they arrive they assimilate, learn the language, customs, and traditions, and contribute a little bit of their own culture to the nation. Then it all gets stirred up in the Great Metling Pot and one common heritage and culture is born. As the saying goes, "When in Rome, do as the Romans do".

and I am generally in disfavor of what most people consider "assimilation." Some people think that there is only one version of what "America" is, and I find that version exceptionally limited and sad.

America has incorporated the customs of many peoples into its culture, and I find our culture to be quite vibrant and diverse. From Blues to Jazz, Mardi Gras, Thanksgiving, entrepreneurship, and many others. There are, of course, negatives as well, but there is no culture in the world that is without negative aspects.

That's where I come from as well, somewhat, from New Mexico, though not quite as richly diverse. It's the "English-first" point of view that I find disheartening and really just not beneficial in any way at all. That's what I'm talking about when I refer to some people's version of what "America" is. Mine is quite different.

What should we accept?
Should we accept the male domination of Mexican culture, how bout the female mutilation that is normal among many African cultures, how bout female infanticide, or female genital mutilation?

I work with young Pakistani and Afghani youths whose parents believe that they should be intermarried, against their will, or if they do not agree with their rigid patriarchal authority, should be thrown out of their homes?

This ignorant idea of accepting every cultural norm under the auspices of "multiculturalism" is absolutely bullshit.

Multicultalism is an understanding of a culture is an attmept to MEET a common ground for the purpose of intra communication. It does not mean we HAVE to ACCEPT EVERY CULTURAL NORM, regardless of how distasteful it may be.

THEY came here for many reasons. I worked with a young (14 y/o) woman/child from Sierra Leone who was gang raped for 2 months by the militias in SL. She escaped with a bullet in her foot (from trying to escape before) and has 3 year old child that is the result of the rape. Should we accept their irrational authority...Hell no.

What makes you think that we need accept any irrational or destructive belief system just because we are free?

Fuck that. IF you come to America...the first thing you NEED to do (not because of other reason than practicality") is learn English.

If I went to any other country in the world, I would NEVER expect that dominant culture to adapt to me. I would NEED to adapt to IT. ESPECIALLY if that dominant culture is accepting me into it's fold.

What fucking audacity.

culture? What does this have to do with such "belief systems?" Please stay on topic. Thanks.

harboring them, protecting them, and giving them their basic needs may be different from their own culture may, at the very least expect a bit of positive culture as opposed to the fucking country that has disowned them and given them up for dead.

Are you for real or just pretending to be an ignorant fool.

Look, I am am a die hard liberal but on this issue I am hardcore. you come to another country, you learn the fucking language. It is NOT because I am some xenophobic idiot, it is becauase that is what the fuck you do when you come to another country.

WHY DOESNT anyone Get this?

If I, and my family, had to, under the most extrme distress, have to move to another country, I would, FIRST AND FOREMOST, LEARN THE FUCKING LANGUAGE. Not because I felt pressured (which might be the case) but because I needed to protect and prepare my family.

Tell me now...what the hell can you argue with that?

that my objection was in some way enabling practices such as female genital mutilation or Mexican "machismo" culture or whatever you'd like to call it. So if we're talking about language, how did your initial post to me relate to that at all, and who said there was anything wrong with learning the language of the country to which one may immigrate? Who? Where? What "argument" are you even talking about?

who talked about some historical issue with language being "forced" upon his/her culture. It is what it is. I am all for multiple language capability, as I think it means that we shoul develop and preserve a multiplicity of language, but to think that any country "owes" you anything is ridiculous.

elsewhere.

It is not that bad... By the second generation those who are born here adapt to the new culture. I cannot provide with a link for you but it is proven. Besides, some of the practices you mention are illegal. I had met a few people that had been "thrown out" of their houses and are living the real "American dream".

an intelligent, NOT, response. Wtf is that supposed to mean?

Is the xenophobia getting to your head?

:eyes:

the country that sat back and watched the Nazi's rape that which was around Switzerland while their populace was protected becauase of their banking industry.

Good comeback... do me and the world a favor and read some history.

:wtf: Is there a "Biggest Asshole" prize competition somewhere that I've not heard about? If so, please alert the media.

at least, you wouldn't be a frontrunner. Others on this thread...maybe not so much.

:evilgrin:

:rofl:

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Considering the obvious preoccupation you have with it, History class must be a real challenge for you. Don't worry, though - you'll get out of 9th grade eventually.

:shrug:

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Didn't you know that if you make a relevant point that succinctly and clearly illustrates the banality of a different position, it's only because you don't know history? :sarcasm:

post hoc ergo prompter hoc? nt

an automobile might be called an auto, an automobile, a car, a cah, that thing in your woodstove, is it a fire or a far? On your house, is it a roof or a roof (that one I can't figure out how to write)? Is it a couch or a davenport?

What about areas of this HUGE country where they do speak other languages than "american english"?

Don't expect any society to adhere to every whim, that goes for everyone.

English was forced upon the island where many of my ancestors came from more than 600 years ago.

They forced us to speak their language. We taught them how to make it sing.

Seriously, English is an ugly language to learn. I'm convinced that each set of conquered people on that island clung to the most inconvenient parts of whatever language had evolved since the last conquering group had taken hold just to confound the newcomers.

How else do you explain the many ways to pronounce the "gh" monster?

tried to force it on the French Canadians who fought back. Since then Canada has functioned nicely as a two language country. I don't see why we can't either. Switzerland has three official languages. Honestly, it hasn't hindered their ability to produce chocolates or exquisite time pieces.

we live in America. And in America, I personally believe that we should all speak English. I'm not saying to abandon your former culture, but, I mean come on. Our country will assimilate you whether you are here legally or not. Your welcome to come here and do whatever. But, I don't see what is wrong with expecting others to make the effort required to function in our society. I live not too far from Miami, and the attitude of some of our guests is unbelievable. They are entitled to be angry with me if I do not communicate with them in the language or their choosing as opposed to the common language of our country.

Our common thread is language. Culture doesn't die if immigrants learn english. In fact I would say that learning english helps bring more of a particular culture into society.

From a practical standpoint it is impossible for people to learn every language. Our common thread is language. I never get upset when someone doesn't speak english very well, as long as they are trying then I am willing to work with them to communicate. I think most people are like that.