Bush Administration restricting travel rights of outspoken US citizens

BUSH RESTRICTING TRAVEL RIGHTS OF OVER 100,000 U.S. CITIZENS

By Sherwood Ross

The freedom to travel of more than 100,000 Americans placed on “watch” and “no fly” lists is being restricted by the Bush-Cheney regime.

Citizens who have done no more than criticize the president are being banned from airline flights, harassed at airports’, strip searched, roughed up and even imprisoned, feminist author and political activist Naomi Wolf reports in her new book, “The End of America.”(Chelsea Green Publishing)

“Making it more difficult for people out of favor with the state to travel back and forth across borders is a classic part of the fascist playbook,” Wolf says. She noticed starting in 2002 that “almost every time I sought to board a domestic airline flight, I was called aside by the Transportation Security Administration(TSA) and given a more thorough search.”

During one preboarding search, a TSA agent told her “You’re on the list” and Wolf learned it is not a list of suspected terrorists but of journalists, academics, activists, and politicians “who have criticized the White House.”

Some of this hassling has made headlines, such as when Senator Edward Kennedy was detained five times in East Coast airports in March, 2004, suggesting no person, however prominent, is safe from Bush nastiness. Rep. John Lewis of Georgia has also been mistreated. And it can be nasty. Robert Johnson, an American citizen, described the “humiliation factor” he endured:

“I had to take off my pants. I had to take off my sneakers, then I had to take off my socks. I was treated like a criminal,” Wolf quotes him as saying. And it gets worse than that. Nicolas Maduro, Venezuela’s foreign minister, said he was detained at Kennedy airport by officers who “threatened and shoved” him. And that was mild. Maher Arar, a Canadian software consultant was detained at Kennedy and “rendered” to Syria where he was imprisoned for more than a year by goons that beat him with a heavy metal cable.

(snip)

Again, Chaplain James Yee, an American citizen born in New Jersey who had converted to Islam and had the Christian compassion to call for better treatment of Guantanamo prisoners, was nabbed in Sept., 2003 on suspicion of “espionage and possibly treason” and flung into the Naval brig at Charleston, S.C., where he was manacled, put in solitary for 76 days, forbidden mail and family visits, demonized in the media and warned he could face execution. Wolf writes, “Within six months, the U.S. government had dropped all criminal charges against Yee,” claiming it did so to avoid making sensitive evidence public, not because the chaplain was innocent.

Over and again, the Bush gang claims it can prove terrible crimes about suspects but, like the men imprisoned at Guantanamo, it repeatedly turns out to have “conspiracy” zilch in its briefcase rather than hard proof of actual misdeeds. Yet it goes on punishing hundreds of suspects with solitary confinement and worse without ever bringing them to trial.

(snip)

“When you are physically detained by armed agents because of something you said or wrote, it has an impact,” Wolf writes. “…you get it right away that the state is tracking your journeys, can redirect you physically, and can have armed men and women, who may or may not answer your questions, search and release you.”

Wolf traces the “watch list” back to a 2003 directive from Bush to his intelligence agencies to identify people “thought to have terrorist intentions or contacts.” After the list was given to the airlines, CBS-TV’s 60 Minutes got a copy. The list was 540 pages long and there were 75,000 names on it of people to be taken aside for extra screening.

The more stringent “no fly” list has 45,000 names on it, Wolf reports. Prior to 9/11, the list had just 16 names, but 44,984 suspects were quickly manufactured to justify the creation of the vast airport security apparatus at God knows what cost to American taxpayers.

One ludicrous “no fly” story concerns John Graham, president of the nonprofit Giraffe Heroes Project, an organization that honors people who stick their necks out. A former government careerist who served in Viet Nam, Graham is an inspired speaker that receives standing ovations from groups such as West Point cadets, yet is kept from flying from his Langley, Wash., base by the National Security Agency. NSA won’t tell him why, either. Maybe they have “secret” information on him, too.

Author Wolf notes that dictatorships from Hitler’s Germany to Pinochet’s Chile have employed arbitrary arrests to harass critics. And Bush’s airport detention policies are more of the same. As Wolf writes, “being free means that you can’t be detained arbitrarily.” Somebody ring the fire bell!"

http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/?q=node/26399

I just "appropriated" it.

pnorman

K&R!!!!!!!!!!!!

:mad:

bring bush up for impeachment, then she should be impeached.......

complicit. She should be removed as well. Let's start going down the line until we've cleansed the criminals and their supporters!

Ya' think Nancy is going to notice sometime before the U.S. is owned by own ten corporations?

Duh.

She's PART of the problem.

and they want the U.S. to attack Iran, just like all the NeoCons do. They're all in bed together.

be stormin' Nancy's office..not just Cindy Sheehan.

...they could form their own airline. A bunch of single- and twin-engine props for the "caged" traveler. Use private airports instead of the urban monsters. Site them on Indian lands and prohibit the presence of all federal agencies except the FAA -- particularly the TSA geniuses.

Call it "Adventure Airlines: Where Every Air Pocket or Crosswind Could Mean the End!" Cheap fares, though, and the peanuts are delicious.


wp

I HAVE to fly to Hawaii in 3 years..with buSHITS ya never know.

Edit~ to say..that's an Excellent idea wp! The hell with the rogue regime.

Sorry if I'm offending anyone here, but it feels like this is the movie we're living in! A little photoshopping...

OK by me. Free speech.

The thugs have Nancy under control. How, I don't know?

how can people walk around (not us) are in denial over this fucker, and what he has done to this country, doesn't anyone think there are many Americans who are ex-pats watching this all and saying we will never go home with this fucker in office.

And that doesn't speak well of America and the truly lame excuses for not doing so makes it even worse

they just fade away....imo

When there's nothing left to quit, no one is a "quitter".

When there's nothing left to win, no one "wins".

Wake up and smell the coffee.

You can drown in that mud all you want, I prefer staying alive and finding some place where my young son might have a future worth living for.

There won't be any place safe. We're the country who used to have a plan to destroy the world with nukes rather than be taken by Russia remember? This beast won't stop until it has complete global hegemony.

You have the same overblown notion of who we are that led the neocons into their delusional misadventure in the mideast.

You think China, Japan, Russia and Europe are just going to roll over for us?

My family is made of of quitters, people who left Europe 100 years ago and prospered in the USA (up until the end of the 90's) as they had never done in centuries in Europe. I left the USA 4 years ago to live in a less parinoid and repressive country, France. Now that I have dual nationality our government has become reactionary so I may leave again, but with EU citizenry I have 26 other countries to choose from that cannot refuse to let me live there.

I am a migrant descended from migrants.

It's called Survival, Dude.

Sheesh.

As long as you don't mind the lack of air conditioning.

Move to Cuba if you want, and enjoy the heat, just do not wear suits, wear shorts and a short sleeved shirt. Do not forget that there are many tiny islands that are territories of European countries that have excellent social systems that you can choose from as well.

It's time for the chickenhawks to go:

One ludicrous “no fly” story concerns John Graham, president of the nonprofit Giraffe Heroes Project, an organization that honors people who stick their necks out. A former government careerist who served in Viet Nam, Graham is an inspired speaker that receives standing ovations from groups such as West Point cadets, yet is kept from flying from his Langley, Wash., base by the National Security Agency. NSA won’t tell him why, either. Maybe they have “secret” information on him, too.

seems odd to me, I wasn't aware the NSA stops anyone from flying.

Will the next president have the courage to scrap these lists?
x(

If so, that would be a great place for us all to start. We need someone in the white house who is willing to step up to the machine in favor of its people, if their are any out there, we should all as democrats be voting for that candidate. This election will tell you what the American people are made of and where we stand, will we vote for the best candidate for us or the best candidate for them?

I figured I would get comment after comment on everyones own candidate? Are you telling me we are going to elect a candidate that is not willing to step out there for their people?

That's exactly what I'm saying.

-Hoot

I'm curious to know if there are any other candidates that are standing up on the issue of our constitution that will stand up for their people if in office? If anyone supports a candidate that doesn't stand up for the constitution, why do you support them and what is it that leans you to them? I want to make sure I pick the right candidate for the country in the primaries before its too late and I believe the constitution would be one of the most important issues out there?

More and more people are coming around, but I fear it will be too few too late. Blind issue polling has Dennis winning hands down.

-Hoot

doesn't stand a chance in hell.

The party is over. America is dead. The people are not the government.

Big corporations that hate unions & peons elect presidents.

I know lots of people that plan to vote for him. I've met ONE person who plans to vote for HRC. ONE. Don't believe the media hype. Vote your conscience.

What people support candidates for, and why they don't seemed concerned at all with things like how smart they are, what they believe, and if you actually think they are sincere. Instead it seems that looks, expensive haircuts, and other crap rules the day.

Look at this moron? What a sign of our eventual downfall, that our media managed to convince almost 50 percent of the people to vote for this idiot in office. Then he was reelected. I never know how much 2004 was influenced by corruption. We know about Ohio, but I wouldn't doubt it if other places were corrupted. These people will do "anything".

could you imagine how bad he would make a republican look? I think he would have the best chance at winning Americas vote, as the republicans would only use talking points or try to slander the democrats and I think Dennis has already shown that he will stand up and talk about real issues with anyone on a national forum. Things like the constitution, war, health care for all and he would be able to get his air time then if hes the candidate we put up. I think some of the medias democratic favorites would just do like they mostly have in the debates, never answer straight answers and always play the politics game. No honesty! Its sad that there is a candidate out there that could possibly make change in our country when we need it most and you have to fight people to open their eyes?

I truly believe that the primaries will show you where people stand on the issues of war and our freedoms. There are no do overs after that point and after what we have seen Bush do to our country, we all know once they are elected, we can do nothing!

Keep spreading the word!

you know, so that they can 'get things done'

can't 'get things done' if you don't play nice nice with the corporatocracy, you know

is voting for Dennis because he's against wars for profit and believes in Democracy.

:crazy:

:crazy:

Right back at ya. If you vote the issues there's no other choice.

-Hoot

We can all point out things about the front runners that I don't agree with, whether its voting for and continuing the war or the patriot act or whatever but they for some reason are still electable and dominating in these polls? I would say that 98% of what I see about Kucinich that is said about him is that he is UNELECTABLE? What does that mean, I know the media feels this way and try to keep him unnoticed but why do so many here on DU say hes UNELECTABLE? If we look at all the issues we all seem to talk about, he is the only candidate standing up and speaking about them. I saw one post that said he only speaks up because he has nothing to lose? If we are making the votes and one guy is being courageous and speaking the truth, I think that would be respected by us all and we would invite that into the white house but instead we want to support the popular media candidates because they have something to lose I guess? So they have to dodge questions and avoid as many real issues as possible when they take part in a DEBATE of presidential candidates? Not so presidential to me!! We need to wake up before its too late, the primaries have passed and we end up with Washington running the same way it always has.

Unelectable, as in the case with Dean being "unpresedential" means that they will try to run the country in a manner that benefits the greatest number of residents in the country instead of running the country in a manner that ensures that the wealthy elite will become wealthier and more elite. This is an international problem (Blair in Labour, centrist socialists in France like Royal etc. etc.) Basically anyone who will acutally help the poor is treated as crazy, unAmerican unfrench unbritish etc. and the media tells you endelessly that you should not vote for them. (The media is controlled by the elite after all.)

That's libertarian as in "ME" society and screw you, Jack...

Not as in Liberty and Freedom from this kind of fascist bullshit...

"We need to shake off the spammer label.
Be more subtle when spreading Ron Paul to other people online. Add to the discussion at hand and then slowly change the topic to Ron Paul." - http://ronpaulinfo.wordpress.com/

They're insidious like Jehova's Witnesses, and I get sick of their spam at Youtube every time I watch an el'08 video.
Like a Kucinich supporter is gonna think about some stinking Republicon anyway.

Yeah, the way HE reads it.

I don't think anybody here is interested in a Christian Dominionist.
The current Theocrat already restarted the Inquisition, we NEED somebody who will stop it.

Well as much I hate to name a Republican, Ron Paul seems to be the only candidate that stands up for the constitution. I know he is anti abortion but he is a staunch constitutionalist and a strong advocate for states rights and a large critic of corporate wellfare.

Does anyone know Kucinich's position on no fly lists? He is anti war and anti patriot act too so he is also probably anti no fly list.

because you've been here for a while, and you're from France.
In this country we have an infestation called "Christian Reconstuctionalists" who surface now and again like locusts, trying to hijack our Constitution.

Their candidates never voice their whole intent but Ron Paul fits the profile to a T. They are the most dangerous enemies of America as they want to dismantle the government to nothing but military and police under the control of the church.

We have to fight them, joining them is out of the question.

As for you question, I don't think the no fly list would fly with Dennis.
Here's a video where he talks about fear mongering.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=5rv42tm2u4w

"people who use fear to stay in power are not worthy to govern a democratic society"

I am American too but I have not lived there for 4 years. I noticed Ron Paul and Dennis Kucinich for being what I considered 2 mavericks, one on the left one on the right. I personally prefer the policies of Kucinich but Paul is basically a libertarian so I figured that he, in p^rinciple, should stand up for constitutional rights. His voting record is like that of Kucinich on key votes, such as the war in Afganistan, the war in Iraq, the 2 patriot acts etc. As far as taxing the wealthy to help the poor Kucinich seems better, he supports national health care for example, whereas Paul supports a system where each state would be able to set up their own welfare and health systems. Seeing as I think wealthy states should help poor states I prefer the economics of Kucinich. I worry what I will do if the Democrats nominate Clinton, who voted for the 2ns patriot act and the war in Iraq, and the Republicans nominate Paul who did not. To me the war and the patriot acts are more important than anything else. Hopefully my senator from Illinois, who was not there to vote for the Iraq war or the patriot act, will get nominated so I will be able to rationalize voting against the anti war Paul if he is nominated.

I don't know how you folks feel about it but to me Paul's kind of right wing ideology is a hell of a lot less dangerous than that of W. whereas Kucinich's stance is not dangerous at all and Clinton, well based on her voting record I would say she is more dangerous than Paul.

What do you folks think?

I have been since 9/11. Every time I fly alone, I am told that I am on a "no fly" list (this never happens when I travel with family or colleagues, for some reason). The counter agents always have to make a phone call before I am allowed on the flight. On my last international trip, I was detained for more than an hour at Ft. Lauderdale upon return from Jamaica. This time, I was told that I'm now a "lookout," so I guess somewhere along the line I received a promotion from whatever shadowy organization I supposedly belong to.

I'll be taking another international trip next week - we'll see what happens.

Certainly they wouldn't be trying to hide the fact to others that you are actually on the list, thereby having witnesses to prove its happening to you.

n/t

Bahamas Firm Screens Personal Data To Assess Risk
Operation Avoids U.S. Privacy Rules

By Robert O'Harrow Jr.
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, October 16, 2004; Page A01

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A36853-2004Oct15.html

Maybe they've contracted 'ChoicePoint' disease and have a polluted or hacked database. But have no fear, they'll continue screwing their political "enemies" (read fellow citizens) until all the fun has gone out of it, or until the worm turns...

The list keepers wouldn't have the security clearances to handle sensitive personal information about us.

I smell identity theft coming up for most of the people in that database. What was that July 17 executive order about seizing assets? I haven't heard anything more about it, and nothing in the MSM. Where is the outrage?

is something anyone with any kind of 'security clearance' can do if they are acting outside of oversight. As long as conservatives in the mode of the Milgram Experiment will go along with orders to shock fellow citizens then whomever gives the orders calls the shots. Even if those 'shots' aren't fired from a gun, they can still screw with someone's life. Perfectly legal is their excuse.

Two weeks ago I was in an Irish pub in Victoria, B. C. talking to a nice young Canadian couple. I told them what I thought about Bush and the whole fascist regime that is presently running the USA. I warned them not to trust their conservatives because what happened to us could happen to them if they aren't vigilant. I hope Bush's ears were burning. Incidentally, the Canadians were happy that there still are Americans out there who haven't completely lost their minds.

any information/notes that would pertain to your being detained or witheld from flying.

I don't let them know it bothers me, although of course it does. But it's not some TSA's fault some moron somewhere in the bowels of bushville put me on a list. I think it bothers them too, they know they are wasting their time searching citizens, and their shoes, meanwhile the cargo is still not screened.

Bright side: singling me out for a special search means I can skip right by the long lines and get through the process a lot quicker.

it would get some recognition. I don't think that anyone (myself included) has a grasp of the extent of this, and maybe the reps would find it eye opening as well. And then again, maybe not....

me he hears about this all the time from constituents. So has Maria Cantwell. They say they are stonewalled or form-lettered by Homeland Security in almost all cases. I think just about everyone this happens to contacts someone to complain. Our Reps know full well the extent of this. They have just learned to go along with the program. Complicity, not ignorance, is the problem.

to my senator, just for kicks I guess.

A list of this or a list of that...

because it is not reported 'enough',do not understand habeus corpus, nor the wrongs of surveillance and other harassments as mentioned in the OP. I find it hard to believe the public is so collectively stupid; surely, when enough people have been personally touched by these evils, a reaction may occur. Of course, by then it may be too late for the American Republic.

NoFederales

And could not of happened if not having been approved by a Republican led Congress G. W. Bush could not of done it on his own. So why give the IDIOT, credit for some thing that belongs to the Republican Party.:sarcasm:

:grr: :banghead: :argh:

between the pukes and the Dems...both right-wings of the business party voted for this SHIT...

only fly when you absolutely have to.

a stinking bus, 35k feet above ground level in a squinchy little seat. .

ugh

too follow too

the misuse of anti-terrorism procedures it would be them. Also, airlines are already suffering because people are choosing not to fly due to the security hassles.

Welcome to Orwells 1984 you americans... Everyone who havent read it, MUST try to get a copy before its banned as a "dangrous literature".. And try to pay in cash, a creditcard can be controlled...

... The Big brother your government is making, is not good, but verry bad.. And it looks like the most of the americans dont care what is happeing anyway.. My guess is that I am not welcome to US anytime soon.. Wel bad, but it is another places to visit...

Its good to see that many americans indeed care about it. But its maybee to late.. I am verry afraid you have to go the some road some nations in Europe have been under... But you may get out of it in time, if you really want to do a shange..

Dicotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not may native language.

:thumbsup:

Thank you;). Nice to know, that my engelish is not THAT bad:)

--would be. Learning languages other than your birth language is hard for anyone, and it's especially hard for those of us whose first language is the rest of the world's first choice for a second language.

Vel,you can try it out and try to understand it:P..It is in the language familiy as german, and some dutch I guess. (Old dutch).

Usaly in Norway we learn engelish from the 3 grade, but i guess it is british engelish.. Not american engelish. In the High school we are learing both the british and american engelish, but for the most part I have the wiew that the school like to learn the british type of engelish.. Even that british engelish is little more "dificult" to learn.. In that retrospect american engelish is mor easy to understand and learn..
I was probely never a great student of engelish, either it was british engelish or american engelish; But that my bad:

And, the TV is full of american movies and series... But we do have some british series to.. I try to read engelish sometimes, and have the old BBC runing on the TV usally. Betther than CNN if I have to say it. Both the way the news is presented, and they are speaking more understandtable.. And they usaly dont speak in the others mouth all the time.. As they are doing in many american media it locks like.. I think its rude to speak in others mouth all the time.. Maybe its customary to do it in america, but i dont belive that is the case over here...

Engelish is probably the language for the small countrys when it come ot it. It is some pepole that think that engelish vil be tha language of the future, even for Norway.. Becouse of the culturelle, and political "power" the engelish language have.. I that is the case, I do hope it wil be the Brittish engelish, and not the american engelish.. Brittish engelish just have the "little tutch" that american dont have... No offence for your americans, but I belive the british have a better "accent" when it come to it..

Diclotican

sorry my bad engelish, not my native language..

--for whom English is a second language, and most of the people in the tourist industry that I met in the Netherlands and Denmark spoke four or five languages in addition to their own. I hope that Norwegian, Swedish, Danish and Nederlands never go away.

Train conductors in Denmark and the Netherlands, if they heard riders speaking their native language, always seemed to switch to that language when asking for tickets. Germany was different. If I had trouble understanding, I could request English, but German was always the default option. I figured that was because Germany was a much larger country.

The reason becouse of the second language often, or allways is engelish, is maybe becouse of the fact that all the nations have some conection to the english speaking world.. Before the WW2 it was german who often was the second language, but for obevius reason, after the war it was the english language who "was the winner". And i belive that the language was shoosen to be second language not long after the german had traveled home, to germany..

Impressive, 3-4 language, I have problems to make it in engelish... Wel I belive if we want it, norwigian, danish, swedish the nederlands and so on wil survive for a long time. It is a testet language, and it maybee are not that "rich" that the english language, it have survived for maybee thousen year..

Its maybee more easy to ask for the tickets in the native language then to ask for it in engelish. But for the most part conducters is fluent in engelish, or german by far. Both Denmark and Tthe Nederlands have verry long tradtion to bouth use german and danish/dutch I guess. They have a long border with German both of them, so naturally the german language is a language to know in some degree..

Norway on the other hand, havent have that problems, wel, wi do have similarys to swedish, in the "sound" of thing then.. A danish cant hear the diference from norwigian to swedish.. And that can be dificult if you is to try to pay for someting and the danish dud just dont want to speak becouse he belive I am swedish (I have in fact experenced that once or twice..) But when I switch to engelish, everthing is OK...

Its maybee becouse of that german is a BIG country. Germany is one of the biggest country in Vestern Europe you know, and have more than 80 million pepole.. Norway have allmoust 4,6 million to comparison.. Denmark have ca 6 million and Sweden have 9 millions...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Norwegian and Swedish are closer as to each other than the Italian spoken in Northern Italy is to the Italian spoken in the south. If Norway hadn't separated from Sweden, would Norwegian be considered a separate languange.

Hm... That is a thing I havent think about yet;).. But I guess its true that swedish and norwigian are verry close to eatch other when it come to it... Norwigian and Swedish dont need translation to understand eatch other... Some word and some expression is different, but for the most part we understand eatch other perfect...

I dont know what should happening if Norway and Sweden havent separeated when they was doing it. My guess is that Sweden-Norway have divorcet some way down the road anyway.. Tha nationalistic tendencey between sweden and norway was verry hight in the end of the 1800s... And Sweden and Norway dont exactly say aye to aye everytime so to say... Both economic and political it diferences and even if they havent seperated in 1905, it may blow up in the faces sometime down the road.. I dont know, but I guess that Norway was ready for independence... And we have been doing it pretty god since 1905 if I have to say it.. When our first independend king was going to Norway, Norway was a verry poor country.. Today 100 year after, that is not exactly the case...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language..

It's comforting to know that some non-US citizens know about DU and understand
that there is a large contingent of US citizens who are outraged and disgusted
by Bush.

We are so upset that our country has been torn to shred and we do not support
this pResident. We are ashamed.

Again...welcome.

Sir/madam

You are not alone, many non-US citizens know about DU, or other sites where the critical eye on the goverment is verry vel alive. And for us non US citizens, its god to see that not EVERY AMERICAN are nutcases like the Administration, and that pepole in US want change.. The Question are that enough people understand that if they DONT do someting, sivil obediense, demostrations, general strike or other things, they may supraisely discovery that they are in a flown grown Dictatorship.. The road to dictarship is easy, and never like you belive it...

Wen I was growing up, sometimes some channel was seding some movies, spesially from the early 1980s when US was under attack from the russians, or other enemies.. The movies was verry scarry, where a new hard dictatorship was trown down the troath to peace-loving americans who have to run for theyr life and there they after a long, dangrous trek suvived to se american soldiers in some township. Or they was coming to a american base who has survived, and there some battle-hardened general was making a speak where they promised to defend the President, the Constituion and US.. Off course the AMerican flag was flying in full collor, and the nation anthem was playing in the background..

Today we are seeing that "movies" that we never belived seriusy that we should se that type of thing going on in US.. Today US is making more and more like a dictatorship, and less and less like a living democracy... If I have to be that frank. US today i verry like the Germans in the 1930s.. or the SOVJET after 1945... 100.000 PEPOLE are not _ALLOWED TO FLY IN OR OUT OF YOUR CONTREY!! And my guess is that is just the beginning. Before you know it, you cant drive a car, or take the bus, or take the train.. You are viritally closed down.. YOu maybee even loose your conection to the internet, and you are not allowed to call overseas anymore... Maybee they close down all computers that is not nesseary for the government use.. And then what then?...

Its scary times ahead.. This Administration is not at the good... They are bad pepole.. And my guess is that the "power behind the trhone" is mutch more dangrous than the President of United States.. He is just a figurhead...

Thank for the welcome.. Have been here for a long time, but resenty startet type:P

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

You are welcome Are you a norwigian, or can you write/speak norwigian?

Du er hjertelig velkommen;). Er du norsk, eller kan du skrive/snakke norsk?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language;

are Norwegian. Fra Telemark og Sognefjord. Jeg kan Norsk og Dansk lesen. Leider, Ich bin ganz besser auf Deutsch zu sprechen and verstehen.

Og du velkommen!

Cool, nice to se some norwigian-american over there.. Your ancestors is maybe from the most betiful ares of Norway by the way.. Telemark is a great place. But nothing beat Sognefjorden if I have to say it.. If you ever are so lucky to travel to norway, you shuld rent a car, and drive over the mountain and down to Sognefjorden.. In the summer if you can.. I cant decribe in engelish what a beatifull sign it is.. Amazing just plain and simple...

Danish and norwigian are not that far away from eatshoter.. The ordinary norwigian (bokmål) is build upon the danish language by far... So it is not suprising that you can read danish pretty wel;) And you can german too, I can read it, but can not speak or write it. But I understand smal portions of it anyway;)

Takk for velkommen;)

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language;

Welcome to DU and you write better English than most republicans.

-Hoot

Oh, it's a reference to Wisconsin and Minnesota which have a large population of Norse heritage folks.

my grandparents. My relatives all Sognings or Vossings. Hjem i Norge var Vik i Sogn. I must get there and see it. Thanks for your kind words about my ancestral land. I dream about it sometimes.

Vil look into it, its to late now, but wil see it.. Its the movie more scary than the book was?...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish, not my native language

Min norsk er ikke så godt, som Deres engelsk.

Du skriver bra norsk.;). Takk for at du mener at jeg skriver bra engelsk;) Har du vært i Norge noen gang?

You are writing good norwigian. Thank that you think that I write good engelish..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad Engelish, not my native language

på norsk og på engelsk. Jeg har ikke været i Norge. Min farfar og farmor var født i Danmark, naesten Ålborg. Når jeg var in Uni har jeg lidt dansk læred, også kan jeg lidt dansk, norsk og svenska at læse forstå. Jeg kan ikke god taler eller på øre forstå.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Can't_Happen_Here

It can't happen here?

It just did...

Ah well.

Welcome to DU.

THIS is presisely why I am staying off the radar.
I sincerely believe the time is coming that we may not be
able to leave...
:hide:
BHN
PS: GREAT seeing you again!!!

Yes I do BHN***

It's such an uncertain time in which we live.

Who in the world would have guessed we would be here seven years later?

I wouldn't have.

Perhaps thats a good thing, I don't know.

Very sad to say the very least.....what makes it the most disheartening is it is all so unecessary.

and a big fence in Mexico to hold us in, 'eh?

to get rid of this shit???

Wasn't there a rep or a senator KENNEDY that was on one of these lists? I don't remember that this changed anything though.

and i'm sure he's off it long ago

short memories. we've all forgotten. so the list is replenished and no one breathes a word about it.

I'm working hard, here. I deserve the recognition.

:rofl:

That's kind of a prerequisite... :shrug: :)

God Bless Our Courageous President.........

GEORGE, you're a Son of a Bitch You're a Bastard. You're a jerk. You're a traitor and dictator.

Also a retard and an embarrassment. Your a drunken, drug addled punk. You're a sissy,
mamma's boy, and you're dumber than your daddy. You're a wimp like him too. Your mommy
must be a real Bitch to have raised up a bunch of leeches and parasites like she did. She's more
of a man than you or your dad together, and that's not a compliment!

You're a liar of the worst kind, and you're a two face liar. You are not a godly man at all, but a
hypocrite of rare distinction. you will go down in history as a failed moron like your dad, only
worse.
You've never read a real book in your life. You were an “F” student who got a “C” from your
daddy's contributions to Yale. You're a draft dodger and a deserter. You're a blowhard Prick, and
you can't understand reporter's questions. You've never had a real job, and wouldn't make it past
one month if you did have one. You'd be fired as an incompetent. You've had everything handed
to you, and you don't even appreciate what you've got. You're a snob, and an inbred effete flop.
Plus you have a stupid face. You look like an ape, and when you talk, you talk like an ape. you
don't have any real ideas in your head, and you have no knowledge of the world other than what
your told by your babysitters that your dad hired to surround you. You'd lose a debate with a 12
year old. You're vile and insipid, mundane and dim-witted. You're the dullest knife in the bush
drawer.

When god was handing out brains you thought he said trains and stood there waiting. You are
against a woman's right to choose, but you had one of your staffers pay for your girlfriends
abortion. You snorted up half of Peru and you smuggled drugs by the ton. You drank a river of
Jack Daniels and you lied about being sober.

You stole the presidency with your father's help and you skated through your whole life on your
last name. You knew 9-11 was coming and you went to hide on the pig farm to be prepared for it,
and didn't warn the victims. You let them die by the thousands and then stood there at ground
zero playing the hero. You promised you'd get the perpetrates dead or alive and then you utterly
abandoned the hunt. You are a Whore of the sleaziest kind, and you worship manna, not Jesus.
You defile the name of Christ, and you pretend to be a religious man. You know Jesus, wouldn’t'
bomb babies, but you tell the easily fooled born again that lie. You talk bad about Hitler, but it
was Hitler and your grandpa Prescott that made your family billionaires.

You took money from the bin Ladens to help your oil company and then you couldn't find oil in
Texas. You stole money from retirees and laughed all the way to the bank. You hugged the
widows of soldiers and 9-11 victim's families knowing that you could have saved them. You are
a heartless, cold, reptilian Cocksucker. You have no soul, yet you attend church and carry a bible
around. You stink, you Suck, and you make us all sick.

You will be remembered as the worst president the nation ever suffered through, and your name
will be synonymous with failure and greed and ineptitude. You have invited the world's ire, and
hatred have disgraced all the founding fathers and every citizen who ever gave their life for
democracy and liberty.

You're a confederate Asshole and a racist. You can barely hide your fear and loathing of black
people. You Pissed on the bill of rights and you Shit on the constitution. Your name will be
scraped off monuments and your statues will be toppled and broken up into gravel. You've
brought down hellfire on innocent people without so much as an apology. You now prepare to
bring suffering and agony to millions all for your billionaire, war pig pals. There is oil in your
veins instead of blood. I hope your happy George. You’re a real Son of a Bitch. Fuck you. Fuck
your dad, and Fuck your mom. Fuck your Nazi grandpa and your effeminate giddy father the CIA
monster. Fuck your brother Jeb, and Fuck your ugly wife. Fuck your whole family you have
Fucked America and now America is saying Fuck you George. Kiss my bitter patriotic Ass you
Son of a Bitch.

When is the last time you heard of him attending church?

During Dubya's first term, he was too "busy" to attend any services regularly. I haven't heard that he does any better in his second term. In contrast, Jimmy Carter regularly attended a church near the White House and even taught Sunday School while he was President.


The "Christian" label is a fake, just like the "Cowboy" label. Dubya is afraid of horses. He rides a golf cart on his "ranch".
I don't know if he keeps any livestock in Crawford. I haven't seen or heard of any. What is the definition of "ranch" anyway? Isn't livestock required? Doesn't it have to have more than a couple of purebread dogs to qualify.

The truth is all we're after.

:thumbsup:

if he got anyone else off the list. I'm sure the ptb will avoid putting too many in congress on the list. No sense in riling those who can do anything about it.

Where can I get a pair of underwear emblazoned, "Just Search Here" ?? :rofl:

but only with one airline.

He works out of town all the time, so one airline decided that his 'last minute' bookings (actually a week or so) deemed him to be 'at risk'. But other airlines accepted him for the businessman that he is ie: one who has to make 'last minute' reservations for his business.

So he is on this 'no fly list' for one airline but can fly other airlines with no restrictions. WTF is up with that?

your on it your on it for every airline

My s/o was blacklisted from one airline but other airlines allowed him to fly with no restrictions. The one (1st) airline that told him that continues to blacklist him while other airlines allow him to fly. He was told it was a TSA no-fly list but he can still fly without the extra security checks on other carriers.

Tell me again how he can fly with one airline but with a supposed 'no-fly' one he can't even get a reservation. BTW, he's nowhere near being a member of an ethnic minority. Even if he was, he's still an American citizen traveling within the US.

When American Communists who had been denied passports or otherwise incumbered in their travels took the state department to court and were sucessful.

Naturally I wouldn't exepect the current courts to apply the precident to the no-fly-list and its breatheren today,

in the current US, forget it

Coincidence, I think not.

Looks like we're all fucked.

Good thing my first and last names are very common. :evilgrin:

I have a very common name and yet I was "TSA'ed" as well.
It's surely a intimidation tactic.
The beatings will continue...
Best thing to do is avoid flying as much as one can.
If you do fly regularly and are getting hassled, pay a visit to your local congressional reps office and get on record.

yet, oddly enough. It amazes me with all my "subversive" activity that this hasn't happened yet. But my brother-in-law has. He shares a a first and last name with someone in the IRA. One was born in 1961, the other in 1945, and yet BIL is on The List. And it's a common enough Irish name that I have met someone else with the same name, and yes, he too is on The List.

I keep clothing and personal effects in cities where I travel. I sometimes send stuff ahead. I get on the aircraft with as little as possible to minimize the "tossing" and bullshit I know will ensue.

I've never gotten on an aircraft without receiving "the treatment."

Ironically, I have a name similar to someone fairly well up the food chain. All it does is make'um ANGRY, ah reckon!!!!!!

Ever have internet server problems? Ever have two technicians come to your house on a late Friday night to see what the problem was?

It would explain a lot that has happened to me at the airport in the last 3 years.

or a big Red S stamp, sometimes with a circle, or a handwritten S, or a clever little barcode that looks like a checkerboard...but they all mean the same thing:

Stop this Sneaky Sucker!! He or she is an Enemy of the BushCo State!!!

From a year ago :

HOUSTON (AP) — Sijollie Allen isn't the first mother to have travel plans delayed because of a 4-year-old son.
But the fact that her holiday flights were gummed up because little Edward Allen's name shows up on a government terrorist watch list has the Houston woman confused and a bit angry.

"Is this a joke?" she recalled telling Continental Airlines agents Dec. 21 at Bush Intercontinental Airport. "You can tell he's not a terrorist."

Sijollie Allen, a Jamaican immigrant, said she doesn't understand why her American-born son should have to deal with this each time he travels just because he shares his name with a much older individual who is on the list.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2006-01-10-toddler-nofly_x.htm

weeks ago, and while we were talking with the Customs guy in Atlantaanother Customs guy came up with an orange folder. They handed us our kids' passports, tucked mine and my wife's in the folder and told us to follow the 2nd Customs guy.

He takes us to a (locked) waiting room where there were a bunch of other people waiting (25 or so), mostly Middle Eastern although some were from Western Africa (I know this because I was sitting where I could hear the Customs guys talking about different cases).

Anyway, after about 45 minutes they call "Vickers and family, please come to the counter" and we went up there, and the guy asked us if we brought back alcohol or tobacco.

:wtf:

We replied no, he handed us our passports, and said we were free to leave.

FTR, we were the only people with blonde hair in the room (other than one of the Customs guys).

Again:

:wtf:

I have been back and forth over the Atlantic roughly 30 times or so, and this is the 1st time that's happened.

We were flying back from Florida to DC. When we checked baggage, the baggage checker gave my husband his and my daughter's flight stuff then handed me mine separately. It seemed odd because usually they are all given to one person.

Then, when we got to security I was immediately segregated and made to go through many extra procedures and asked lots of questions.

I'm a 59 year old woman with no arrest record. I have, however, written emails to Bush at his White House address asking him to resign for the good of the country.

Will have to fly alone sometime and see what happens. It seems that writing LTEs, visiting sites such as DU and sending nasty (but non-threatening) email to the White House isn't enough.

So much for "Freedom."

The middle class is losing its 'upper class' rights: The right to travel. Air travel will be reserved for the elite. Vacation? Research? Family? Forget it and get back to slave wage work.

I almost hope I'm on it... except for the problems flying.

they are not supposed to tell you, but you can tell by the difficulty you have flying and crossing internat'l borders if you're on it -- if you constantly get detained then that's a pretty big clue

hubby is harmless, unfortunately he has a common english/irish name -- i'm told many irish names are on the list because of the ira

he's been detained several times and has been told outright it's because of his name, a name shared with many many thousands of people
-- millions of people share his last name

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

He couldn't get away with it if charges were brought against him for crimes against this country; yet, the infestation of those who think democracy is a bad thing is so complete, on both sides of the aisle, that there are not even enough signatures available to censure Bush.

Look at Karl Rove given hail-fellow-well-met farewells even while in contempt of a Congressional subpoena. And how long has the missing WH emails thing been going on? Then there's Monica Goodling allowed to get away scot-free with the euphemism, "I may have crossed the line" when describing how she willfully and deliberately broke the law.

How many years have we known about these bogus no-fly lists? And yet... they're still going strong....

Why has this psychopathic WH crew been allowed by our elected representatives to destroy this country -- even as citizens take to streets with their hair on fire screaming at them to do something? (rhetorical question).

They're all too busy hobnobbing with their rich friends to raise money for their RIDICULOUSLY expensive campaigns!

Have any of you been given a random heightend check? The ones where they pat you down and ask you were you are going etc. It happened to me in Florida on my way back to Chicago. I had to put my hands against the wall and get frisked even though I had just gone through a metal detector with my shoes off and had no metal on me. The guy doing it seemed reluctant because he didnt even pat down my pockets he just patted once just above my hips and said ok you can pass. He did explain that I was pre flagged for a "random check". has anyone else had this happen to them?

i'm pretty sure this is random or semi-random, however, when it was happening to me A LOT i had recently been to banking capitals on 3 continents so it may not have been purely random in my case

panama city, nairobi, london if anyone cares -- obviously destinations that a GREAT many english speaking people fly in and out of all the time

I'd love to remove these bastards from office.

A dictatorship.