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Search your bag vs tap your phone....whats the difference?

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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:47 PM
Original message
Search your bag vs tap your phone....whats the difference?
If you didn't do anything wrong whats the problem? Isn't that the argument?
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johnnie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
1. Stores tap your phone now?
Yikes.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
2. Yes. Now, get back in line. We have elections to stage
and citizens to torture.
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IndianaJones Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Nothing to fear if you haven't done anything. Calm. Sleep. nt.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
6. Thank GOD for my SOMA!
:sarcasm:
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Go find an un-tapped phone!
In our budding police state, that's going to get more and more difficult.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. I tried to switch from the ATT collaborators to Working Assists.
Aha! WA needs ATT's PERMISSION AND HELP to switch my service. It never happened.

What a surprise.
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Lars39 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #9
24. It just gets weirder, doesn't it.
:sigh:
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BlackVelvet04 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:52 PM
Response to Original message
5. I don't see any difference and don't support
either.
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
7. Ah, but stores and companies DO tap your phone
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 03:54 PM by Xithras
"...portions of this call may be recorded..."

If you have ever heard that when calling a company, you have gone through the telephone equivalent of the bag search.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #7
12. well, technically they are tapping THEIR phones
and not for the point of monitoring YOU but rather their employees (for the most part but also to record certain illegal activities such as threats and attempts to commit fraud).

sP
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Xithras Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. True, but you could also say that stores are just monitoring THEIR merchandise.
Legally, at what point does the transfer of ownership take place? Is there a law governing this? What if a store were to say "The product is yours once you pay and leave the store with it". In that case, wouldn't the bag, and the property in it, still belong to the store until it exits the front door?

This is typically the mentality that stores have with these searches. You haven't left yet, so it's still store merchandise and can be checked at will.
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ProdigalJunkMail Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. well, I believe (but am no expert) that the contract is executed
when you pay and the moment your money hits them the product is no longer theirs. I have no problem with them looking at what I have purchased and checking the receipt. Most of the time I see that as checking their employees more than checking me (to see that everything was rung up properly). Heck, a couple of times the door checker saved me a couple of bucks by noticing thing that were rung up more than once.

I understand that it is my right to say no, but I choose to allow the store their little comforts as it is no big delay for me.

sP
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Beaverhausen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:54 PM
Response to Original message
8. Well in one instance you are in a store and just did business with the company
In the other instance you are at home.

And you know that if you paid by credit card at the store, they know everything about you anyway, right?
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LibDemAlways Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #8
16. These days you can pay with cash and they
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 04:01 PM by LibDemAlways
still want to know everything about you.

Bought a car charger for my daughter's Ipod last week at the Apple store in the mall. Paid cash. Clerk wanted my name, phone number, home address, and e-mail address. When I asked why, he said, "For our records." Talk about intrusion. When this happens to my dad,he responds, "I'm John Smith and I live at 100 Main Street" before walking out.
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Starbucks Anarchist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Private company vs. government, for one.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I'd really love to see that clear demarcation.
It really doesn't exist anymore as far as I can tell. :shrug:
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rudy23 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:55 PM
Response to Original message
11. It's harder to steal electronic goods over the phone
*phone companies don't lose millions of dollars a year in stolen conversations
*you usually don't use a phone in someone else's private business with their own rules

off the top of my head. And I'm a proud civil libertarian. I just think stuff like this hurts our argument.
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pitohui Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:57 PM
Response to Original message
14. you don't see the difference between ideas, plans, discussion...and my bag of onions? EOM
,
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hlthe2b Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 03:59 PM
Response to Original message
15. Step UP for the mandatory body cavity search!
Just one of the "special security" features WalMart will introduce this fall to keep those prices low! What's the problem if you didn't do anything wrong? Hmmm?


:sarcasm:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #15
19. And some genius will be marketing products to help you
make sure your searchers aren't offended by your bodily smell.

WhEEEEEEEEEEEee!
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Pithlet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
17. I don't think asking to check the receipt is the same as the government tapping our phones.
Of course, we have the right to tell the store to shove it and leave. They don't have the right to detain us for not complying. Stores asking to check receipts is ridiculous and annoying, but it's nowhere near the level of government wiretapping. Now, if they detain someone for not complying, they are indeed breaking the law.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
18. No...nevermind.
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 04:01 PM by redqueen
It's just pointless.
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HughMoran Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
22. Not at all
Edited on Thu Sep-06-07 04:13 PM by HughMoran
...but I agree with the above poster - trying to refute arguments framed in this fashion is completely pointless...
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ComerPerro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-06-07 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
23. There is a very clear difference, and to trivialize privacy rights like this is pathetic
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