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Nightmare on Main Street: More on Bush's Anti-Dissent Order

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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 07:42 AM
Original message
Nightmare on Main Street: More on Bush's Anti-Dissent Order
Edited on Fri Sep-07-07 08:17 AM by EV_Ares
We wrote recently here of Bush's new executive order granting himself and his minions the arbitrary power to seize the entire assets of any American citizen – without warning, without any criminal charges whatsoever – solely by declaring that their victim somehow poses an unspecified threat to "the peace or stability of Iraq" or else is "undermining efforts to promote economic reconstruction and political reform in Iraq." In other words, Bush now claims the power to strip you of your assets if you oppose American policy in Iraq.

This latest tyrannical outburst from the Outrager-in-Chief has passed largely without notice. Even some of the Administration's fiercest critics have downplayed its significance. The always-admirable Dave Neiwert at Orcinus has been among the skeptics, on the reasonable grounds that right-wing militia groups were forever reading vast conspiracies into ordinary government decrees in the 1990s, and that one should wait for more informed legal analyses before leaping to scarifying conclusions. Fair enough – although Dave himself has done as much as anyone out there in detailing the extremism of the Bush Regime and its supporters. To his credit, Dave has kept an open mind on the question, and co-blogger at Orcinus, Sara Robinson, has taken a far darker view of the executive order.

Now Dave has featured a long – and highly disturbing – piece of informed legal analysis of the order from one of his regular commenters, attorney Den Valdron. who draws out the very dangerous implications of the order's wording in convincing detail. Perhaps most disturbing is Valdron's insight that the executive order doesn't even have to be formally invoked in order to have a chilling effect on political dissent. Just its mere existence – and the ever-present threat of social and legal obliteration that it represents – will be enough to quell all but the hardiest opponents of the Leader's criminal rampage in Iraq.

You should scoot on ever to Orcinus and read "That Executive Order" in full, but below is an excerpt about the "chill factor" that Valdron identifies:

http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/2007/07/that-executive-order.html


Essentially, in this Executive Order the President is assuming unbelievably vast powers to simply sidestep normal criminal or civil procedure, and to operate quite explicitly on the basis of guilt by anticipation, guilt by pre-emption, guilt by association and guilt for any reason in the mind of the decider. There is literally no limitation on authority, except that the person's actual physical being is unaffected.

However, a person so designated by this Order could be rendered into a non-person literally instantaneously. They could be stripped of every asset, have every financial or commercial opportunity denied to them. Worse, this literally creates a power to shun. Anyone who employs this person, who hires them, who pays them for work, lends them money to tide them over, who rents them an apartment, or allows them to sleep on the couch, who drops them a few coins as they panhandle would be liable to becoming subject to this order. The only protection would be to fire this person, to not hire them, to not pay them, to not lend them money, evict them from your apartment, kick them off the couch, and look away if you see them begging on the street.

If the potential implications of this make you think of Jews in Nazi Germany, think again. The Jews pre-war had it good compared to the potential of this.

http://www.chris-floyd.com/content/view/1241/135/
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:02 AM
Response to Original message
1. Bush scares me more all the time. After trying to explain this
raping of the Fourth Amendment to a niece I was the recipient of a message that said she didn't care, didn't have anything to hide and was glad he was making us safer! Blows my mind when I hear these talking points. I don't even know where to begin. I did answer that she and her young family would live longer with the results of this EO than I will and should contemplate that.

I will go to your link and read the article. I know it will only cement my feelings; do I dare forward it to my niece? Probably should. K&R
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. What was that article where it said first they came after the ??? and I
did nothing, then they came after the ?, I did nothing and then they came after me and it was too late because there was no one around to help, something to that effect.

You might send her that if you know where that writing is, I can't remember the name of it.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:18 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Good idea...I know what you're referring to but I too can't recall
enough to find it! Maybe someone here, (DU always produces!) will come to our aid! I'll send it, although the explanation Chris Floyd gave toward the end of his article is quite good in explaining in present day terms the danger of this EO.....may use it!
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
9. Here is one version~ from Wiki.
When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:34 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. Hey, thanks for coming through on that. eom.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:51 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. Thank you....maybe I'll send this one first....I know the first time I
heard another version it stuck me because of its succintness (?)....to the point...hopefully, it will strike my niece the same way. Thanks again.
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OnceUponTimeOnTheNet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #14
17. Here's a current era version
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 12:59 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Hee hee!
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. NUH UH! They came for Tinky Winky before Spongebob. n/t
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
12. Martin Niemoller
First they came for the Communists,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Communist.
Then they came for the Jews,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I wasn’t a Jew.
Then they came for the Catholics,
and I didn’t speak up,
because I was a Protestant.
Then they came for me,
and by that time there was no one
left to speak up for me.


by Rev. Martin Niemoller, 1945

http://www.hoboes.com/html/FireBlade/Politics/niemoller.shtml
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:54 AM
Response to Reply #12
16. Thank you! I appreciate your efforts in looking this up...I just
didn't know where to start on this one!
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:09 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Yeah, the apathy is the one of the most terrifying aspects
Even among liberal leaning folks. I was detailing some of the more chilling Orwellian surveillance laws that have been enacted to a college junior(a guy who's into helping the environment and has pretty progressive values) He just didn't want to hear it, found it too disturbing,and thought that it really wouldn't effect him. Stuck his head in the sand and didn't want to be disturbed. Sadly I've noticed this attitude among a lot of people both young and old.
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Toots Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:20 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Since there is absolutely nothing going to be done about it why bother yourself about it.
It would be one thing if I believed someone (Democrats) would actually stand up to this blatant disregard for the Constitution but I know they will not. They will not even enforce their own subpoenas so have become a laughing stock in Republican meeting rooms. Democrats have turned themselves and the Party into a joke of huge proportion..
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #5
8. We are truly doomed if we proceed as if nothing can be done.
I will not give up.
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EV_Ares Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:36 AM
Response to Reply #5
11. Can understand how easy it is to get into that kind of a mode, however,
you only reinforce all of that by doing that very thing. You have to at least keep trying as frustrating as it can be and pretty soon you might be surprised by others who will join the cause and the numbers grow.
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MadHound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. The thing is that there is always something you can do about it
In some shape or form. And frankly, if the Democrats don't take up the challenge, then it is up to us, we the people, to do something. The American people need to remember and realize that this is still a government of the people, and to act accordingly. Once you slip into that victim mentality, then guess what, that's what you are.
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:26 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. I KNOW! It's alarming isn't it?
I've come to think that otherwise reasonable people ignore the facts and don't deal with them because it is a defense mechanism not to recognize what's plainly in front of them. They are probably even more scared than those of us who outrightly recognize the dangers. The fear of the unknown is powerful. If they don't recognize it they don't have to deal with it and consequently it seemingly doesn't interfer with their personal goals. This mind set certainly sets up a barrier. For these people it will take seeing the results of this EO, probably over and over and over, before they can muster the courage to fight the fight....sad and too late.
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lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:29 AM
Response to Original message
7. More fucking cooking of rotten eggs.
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ananda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
13. I'm still marching on the 15th!
So sue me.

If hundreds of thousands march.. millions....
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:03 AM
Response to Reply #13
20. That's great! I wish I could go....I would love it. Be careful...did you hear
about the journalists and a handful of protestors at Lafayette Square being assaulted, in my book, by policemen on horseback yesterday? The best I could tell all these citizens were doing was trying to get the word out about the march on the 15th. Three were arrested!
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:53 AM
Response to Original message
15. Why haven't we heard our congresspeople or senators addressing this?
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snappyturtle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 08:59 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. It's not one of their priorities...? They think it can't be used
against them? They're too busy with the lobbyists? They're into their re-elections? God only knows why.....they certainly aren't looking out for us!
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CoffeeCat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
19. I'm stuck on the ironical hilarity...
That Bush is threatening American citizens who threaten the "peace and stability in Iraq".

Ok, since we "shocked and awed" the Iraqis, there has been no "peace" and no "stability".

How can you threaten "peace" and "stability" that do not exist, and has no chance of existing?

It seems to me that Junior himself is the American citizen who is the biggest threat to "peace
and stability" in Iraq.

Does this mean that Junior will have his cowboy hats, brush-clearing implements and "Hooked on
Phonics" manuals carted away anytime soon?

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formercia Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 09:54 AM
Response to Original message
21. I've seen it first hand
My mother is a Canadian citizen and they threatened to deport her if she continued to provide any support to me. I have a brother and a late sister who were born in Canada and they did the same to them if the refused to inform and engage in provocations against me. It was too much for my sister. She committed suicide.

These people are serious assholes.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-07-07 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
25. K&R
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