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Ghost in the Machine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:12 AM Original message |
Calif. Gray Whale Shot With Machine Gun |
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cali (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:14 AM Response to Original message |
1. I read a couple of stories |
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SayWhatYo (991 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:21 AM Response to Reply #1 |
3. particularly with a machine gun.... |
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Pachamama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:23 AM Response to Reply #1 |
4. Cali, see my post below....I am very familiar with the Makah tribe... |
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alarimer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 12:06 PM Response to Reply #1 |
7. I am only in favor of it if they are truly subsistence hunters |
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Pachamama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:20 AM Response to Original message |
2. This makes me so angry....and shame, shame on the Makah tribe... |
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alarimer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 12:09 PM Response to Reply #2 |
10. I have read a little bit about this as well |
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Pachamama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:33 AM Response to Original message |
5. I just went to the Seattle Times website and its front page news - the whale died & the tribe is |
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Annces (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 12:04 PM Response to Original message |
6. kick |
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Shine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 12:08 PM Response to Original message |
8. That's terrible!!! |
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BlooInBloo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 12:09 PM Response to Original message |
9. DU front page says it was harpooned, and has a picture. |
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MiniMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 01:07 PM Response to Reply #9 |
11. The OP says it was harpooned as well as being machine gunned |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 02:23 PM Response to Reply #11 |
16. There was no machine gun, just bad reporting. n/t |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 01:23 PM Response to Original message |
12. I call BULL SHIT on the machine gunning of the whale. |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 01:31 PM Response to Reply #12 |
13. Where the hell did they get the "Machine gun" report? |
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qdemn7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 01:42 PM Response to Reply #13 |
14. Machine gun BULLSHIT!!! |
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MiniMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:29 PM Response to Reply #12 |
18. Well, what about the CNN headline for starters: Tribal fishermen held after whale killed with machin |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:32 PM Response to Reply #18 |
22. But the preliminary report was wrong. |
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MiniMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:36 PM Response to Reply #22 |
25. Where are you seeing that the prelim report was wrong? |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:48 PM Response to Reply #25 |
28. Uh, it was wrong because they didn't have machine guns. |
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MiniMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:58 PM Response to Reply #28 |
32. Thanks for the link |
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Lasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:08 AM Response to Reply #28 |
80. Possibly a Weatherby Mark V Deluxe bolt action. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:40 PM Response to Reply #12 |
26. I call un-bullshit and I'll give you pics |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:46 PM Response to Reply #26 |
27. Show me a picture of a machine gun. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:50 PM Response to Reply #27 |
29. Show me the folks actually taking the shots. |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:59 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. I am arguing that it is a false story, that is all. |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 11:06 PM Response to Reply #33 |
34. I'm arguing media error |
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Beausoir (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:50 PM Response to Reply #27 |
30. Ooooh! What a manly post! The testosterone is positivley DRIPPING from those guns! |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:52 PM Response to Reply #30 |
31. Grow up. |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:50 AM Response to Reply #31 |
45. Friend, you are not doing us responsible gun owners a favor. |
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yewberry (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:28 AM Response to Reply #45 |
88. I'm a non-gun-expert. |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 07:09 PM Response to Reply #45 |
93. I apologise. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 01:44 PM Response to Original message |
15. Deleted sub-thread |
Annces (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 02:48 PM Response to Original message |
17. List of violations by the Makah in killing this grey whale |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:34 PM Response to Original message |
19. More hunting hypocrisy? nt |
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Ghost in the Machine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 01:44 AM Response to Reply #19 |
36. They weren't *hunters*, they were POACHERS. Please don't confuse the two. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:31 AM Response to Reply #36 |
41. How are they illegal poachers? They have an absolute right to go whaling |
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yewberry (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:36 AM Response to Reply #41 |
89. No, they don't. |
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riverdeep (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 06:47 PM Response to Original message |
20. Hmm, I think I'd rather actually be killed by a machine gun |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:36 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. Wouldn't be enough of you floating on the surface to eat. n/t |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 07:05 PM Response to Original message |
21. The Makah don't need anyone's permission to kill a whale |
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flvegan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 11:08 PM Response to Reply #21 |
35. Spoken like someone with absolutely NO idea what they're talking about. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:28 AM Response to Reply #35 |
39. Article 4, Treaty of Neah Bay, 1855 |
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Ediacara (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:02 AM Response to Reply #39 |
76. The way I read this indicates that they CAN'T whale anytime they want |
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Ghost in the Machine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 01:48 AM Response to Reply #21 |
38. No they can't. Once again you spout off with your *opinion* and call it facts |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:29 AM Response to Reply #38 |
40. See above, Treaty of Neah Bay, 1855, article 4 |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 07:24 AM Response to Reply #40 |
48. Other Stupid Laws: Washington State |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:30 AM Response to Reply #48 |
49. It's not a Washington State Law, it's a Federal Treaty (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:45 AM Response to Reply #49 |
54. I merely used WASHINGTON STATE as an example. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:58 AM Response to Reply #54 |
56. Get over it, it's a treaty right, it's not about to go away (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:26 AM Response to Reply #56 |
62. Get over it, We're in IRAQ, it's not about to go away... |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:44 AM Response to Reply #62 |
67. Two points |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #67 |
69. I did not present that as an argument. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:58 AM Response to Reply #69 |
73. Well, using something to demonstrate something is indeed a type of |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #73 |
78. You obviously didn't see the backhoe. |
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Ghost in the Machine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:34 AM Response to Reply #40 |
65. Still assertations without proof. *Here's* what a link looks like, with info |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #65 |
68. That's not really the whole story and you know it |
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Ghost in the Machine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:11 AM Response to Reply #68 |
82. Who's the one being difficult? You still provide no links or proof of your assertations. |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:11 AM Response to Reply #68 |
83. BOY I can smell those YEN now!!!! |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:13 AM Response to Reply #65 |
84. THANK YOU SO MUCH! |
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LeftyMom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:10 AM Response to Reply #21 |
81. It's a violation of international law. And was not authorized by the Makah tribe, for that matter. |
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fedupfisherman (318 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Sep-09-07 09:35 PM Response to Original message |
23. Why are they allowed to kill whales? |
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OmmmSweetOmmm (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:39 AM Response to Reply #23 |
43. Certain groups from Wikipedia |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:42 AM Response to Reply #23 |
44. Treaty of Neah Bay, 1855 |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 07:10 AM Response to Reply #44 |
46. Screw them AND their hunt. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:32 AM Response to Reply #46 |
51. By your tortured logic, the entire bill of rights is out of date (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:36 AM Response to Reply #51 |
52. Nope. We amend the constitution when REASON demands. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:00 AM Response to Reply #52 |
57. The whole nature of treaties is that they can't be randomly amended |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:08 AM Response to Reply #57 |
59. Fine. Then HOLD them to the treaty,. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:15 AM Response to Reply #59 |
60. The treaty does not specify traditional methods, only traditional grounds |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:30 AM Response to Reply #60 |
64. And letting them get KILLED for their tradition simply demonstrates its value. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 01:46 AM Response to Original message |
37. I have the gawd-given right to machine gun whales if I want! |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 06:33 AM Response to Reply #37 |
42. Actually, they have the Uncle Sam given right |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 07:12 AM Response to Reply #42 |
47. The Country that signed that treaty no longer exists. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:31 AM Response to Reply #47 |
50. WTF! It does so (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:44 AM Response to Reply #50 |
53. To paraphrase the Late Great Shelby Foote: |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 09:57 AM Response to Reply #53 |
55. You know nothing about the First Nations (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:25 AM Response to Reply #55 |
61. I know that if they want to be a NATION, then I don't want to SUPPORT them |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:51 AM Response to Reply #61 |
70. They've always been a nation and they were here first, hence the term |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:56 AM Response to Reply #70 |
72. I am INTIMATELY familiar with First Nations. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:59 AM Response to Reply #72 |
74. So do you think deer hunters should use bows only? (nt) |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:03 AM Response to Reply #74 |
77. Works for me. I'd let them use Black Powder too. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:08 AM Response to Reply #77 |
79. Well that's just silly |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:15 AM Response to Reply #79 |
85. You did notice the post about SELLING the carcase, not EATING it. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:17 AM Response to Reply #85 |
86. Yeah, but I simply don't give a shit |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:19 AM Response to Reply #86 |
87. That's it. |
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benEzra (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:34 AM Response to Reply #37 |
66. Bolt-action Weatherby hunting rifle, not a machinegun. |
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cgrindley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:56 AM Response to Reply #66 |
71. a box of .460 Weatherby Magnum rounds is like 100 bucks |
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Tyler Durden (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 11:00 AM Response to Reply #71 |
75. REAL tradition, that Weatherby. |
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leftofthedial (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 12:42 PM Response to Reply #66 |
90. I'll tell you what! gawdjeezis gave me even MORE of a right |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:03 AM Response to Original message |
58. I have to fully support their ability to hunt the whales. nt. |
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Ladyhawk (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 12:51 PM Response to Reply #58 |
91. Why? Isn't it mostly for religious reasons? |
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IndianaJones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 12:55 PM Response to Reply #91 |
92. I don't believe it is an issue of ethics. I am not educated very well on this subject. |
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Lasher (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 10:29 AM Response to Original message |
63. Thread on the subject in LBN |
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Wcross (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Sep-10-07 08:58 PM Response to Original message |
94. All moral issues aside....... |
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