Why is it we Democrats are intent on shooting ourselves in the foot?

Time and time and FUCKING time again?

http://www.madison.com/tct/news/230199

Sheehan fires up crowd at Fighting Bob Fest

Samara Kalk Derby — 9/09/2007 9:11 am

The country's best-known anti-war activist, Cindy Sheehan, made her first trip to the Madison area Saturday, headlining the sixth annual Fighting Bob Festival in Baraboo, and calling for the impeachment of President George W. Bush.

<snip>

Sheehan, who set up a peace camp outside Bush's Texas ranch in 2005 and attracted support from across the globe, said the two-party system in the United States is fundamentally corrupt.

"Really, in many ways, we only have one party in this country," she said. "People say, 'Cindy, do you support a third party?' And I say, 'Well, a second party would be nice.' "

Sheehan, whose challenge of Pelosi is as an independent progressive, told the crowd she is no longer a Democrat. The leadership of the Democratic Party is not on the left and doesn't represent true, progressive values, she said.

Nadering again - wow maybe while she's at it she could:

1 - Help the GOP keep the White House

2 - Give the GOP back the Senate and House

3 - Keep that Iraq war going for another 10 years!!!!

With friends like these, who needs pancreatic cancer?

Spoken like a true toddler.

Trust me, I got two of them. I recognize the mindset.

There's an idea!

I know you think 51% would be enough to start impeachment, but trust me, it won't. Especially when there are a number of DINO's in that 51%. Blame them, not Pelosi. She's just being realistic. Remember reality? That thing that requires reason and evidence?

Think again, moonbeam

Moonbeam? Oh I get it! I must be a dirty hippy!

Now who usually calls anti-war people 'moonbeam', 'tree-hugger', etc?

Oh yeah. The right wing.

such a tell. No wonder that poster was on 'the list' back when I had one.

> Moonbeam? Oh I get it! I must be a dirty hippy!

They have no track record of success since at
least 1980 and no arguments so they hurl insults.

Tesha

:crazy:

I'm tired of hearing them.

That doesn't stop Ms. Pelosi from calling a press conference and declaring that impeachment is not off the table. Where is the leadership? Where is the fight? All I have seen thus far is capitulation.

Just like the Democratic leadership.

she is a corporatist like the rest.

They need to call out Bush either by impeachment or by cutting off funding for the war. The American people and the world need to see that the Dems do not support Bush in continuing the war. If not, this little thing called "votes" may not be there in Nov. 2008.

wouldn't you agree? That will put it to rest finally. Let every member of the House *vote* on whether to start impeachment proceedings or not.

I like the idea myself. It'll give us an up close view of who stands for us, and who stands for a criminal junta in the White House.

BTW, technically you're wrong anyways. "I know you think 51% would be enough to start impeachment, but trust me, it won't." A simple majority is all it takes to *start* impeachment, but it takes a 2/3rds majority to *convict*.

So who's shooting themselves in the foot? :shrug:

To start the Green Party and move them from 1% to a nice 2.5%?

I'll start worrying about Cindy Sheehan defeating Nancy Pelosi.

Yep, she's the one talking the DINO's in VA and other "Red" states into voting against impeachment. The one convincing otherwise Liberal Dems to support Bush. Yeah, that's it. :eyes:

She's getting ready to give bush another round of Billions for Iraq.

Keep supporting mediocrity.

Do you think that the Rahm Immanuels and Carvilles wanted her in anything other than a lame duck role?

She was chosen because they knew she could do nothing.

Watch our control go from 51% to 65% or more and expect to see a nice, *safe* centrist Dem in the role.

Not to mention her rhetoric is predictable, unoriginal and dull.

I used to like her, but when she went on her Jihad against messengers everywhere, I stopped drinking the Kool-Aid

ps that horse died a while back. but I'm sure you will get your flame war.

Seriously, she's lost her mind. She's a mockery unto herself and someone that almost NO ONE takes seriously anymore. She's undermined her entire cause and alienated so many who had originally supported her. Her extremist and irrational cohorts have manipulated her and brainwashed her to such a degree that she's lost any sense of rationality or reasoning and is now just someone to be laughed at and scorned.

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plain and simple. But DU-approved slander. apparently.

It's not Cindy.

These are facts that are separate from Cindy.

Even the GOP die hards are having to dance on this one...

what makes you think the Dem's need Cindy's help to:
1 - Help the GOP keep the White House

2 - Give the GOP back the Senate and House

3 - Keep that Iraq war going for another 10 years!!!!

The Dems didn't "win" last election... the pukes lost.
They won despite their incompetence; I also have seen *nothing to make me think they're actually going to stop the war.
Oh sure... they'll make noises about it, get in front of crowds and sound righteous...
but they fold pretty easy.

I'm all for democratic principles, and what the party stands for, but the party leaders are for the most part charlatans.... and those who pretend they aren't are deceiving themselves.

and that the price the dems will pay is of their own making?

They played the SAME STOOOPID game after Iran Contra

In your reality we did win the White House in 1988, didn't we?

Just checking

nothing will get done on Iraq.

Bush will string this out as long as he is in Office.

Want change?..... get 67 Dems in the Senate.

THEY DO NOT NEED TO OVERRIDE A VETO!

If the president wants to veto, that's fine.
No sign, no money.


They are under ZERO obligation to send him a funding bill for the war that he "finds acceptable".
Congress has the power of the purse intentionally, so they can stop insane fools like Bush.

If she wanted to take this line of action, there would be 5, maybe 6 dems who would support her in this.

One week later, she'd lose the Speakership.

And then we'd be all moaning about something else.

Meanwhile, the most liberal person since Tip O'Neill to be Speaker of the House would be relegated to the corner.

Great strategy for success dude!

when the watered down bill, after the veto, came up in the house, a sizeable chunk of Dems voted AGAINST it.
70 something if I remember right.

Pelosi, who I haven't mentioned until right now, showed serious lack of leadership by voting with the republicans. Had she done her job she could have kept it from passing.

This is besides my original point, which you are MISSING.
THEY DIDN'T NEED TO OVERRIDE A VETO.

They just needed to keep something from making it to the president's desk long enough to force the beginning of a troop withdrawal because they had no money.
If it hadn't passed the house, it wouldn't have made it to the president's desk.
Clear enough?

The republican boogey man that our troops would starve in the desert was just that... a boogey man.
NOT REAL.
It would NEVER happen.

They just would have been forced to leave.

Neither are many others. They're Shadow.

Every time there is a controversial vote--especially on the
War, Nancy appears to always say to the other members--Vote
your conscience. Depending on your point of view, she is either
being appropriataely Democratic; or she is refusing to be a
strong Leader. This gives Blue Dogs and DLC free reign to
vote GOP.

I am throwing this out as thoughts. The GOP were effective
in getting their legislation passed the way they wanted.
DeLay "broke legs and twisted arms' but the legislation
passed. If you now watch the GOP minority--they stick
together and as a result it gives the appearance to the
public that the GOP is still in charge.

This is my observation: The Blue Dogs and DLC types see
to be from Red States. Only a handful are really pro-life
and are really more liberal on the God, Guns and Gays.
I find it hard to believe they are under all this pressure
from their homestates. Everyone gives them a pass on their
Conservative Votes. Just thinking out loud.

The Bob Fest happens every year, lots of different people are invited to give speeches there. The Bob Fest is not a Democratic Party function.

I'm trying to figure out how anyones' foot was shot. Are you saying that elected Wisconsin Democrats should not have participated in Bob Fest because Cindy Sheehan, who is not a Democrat, was also there?

I hope you are not saying that Cindy Sheehan should not have been allowed to be there because there were also going to be Democratic politicians there.

Or are you saying that everyone who listened to Ms. Sheehan speak at Bob Fest was being mean to Democrats?

I'm just not getting the thought process behind your post title.

sw

Complaining might make you feel better, but it won't fix anything. Neither does doing nothing about it.

most Republicans did it to get out of Viet Nam... :)

And stand for Justice?

Why don't they enforce the Constitution they swore to protect?

Questions that must be answered. If they're not fighting the Shadow Government. They are the Shadow Government.

End of story.

I haven't seen a discussion of this lately. What are the chances that Ralph will run again?

His ego needs the boost every 4 years

But seriously, a thoughtful, nuanced approach will always result in more diversity of opinion than a centralized, fundamentalist approach that rewards toadies and penalizes those who voice dissent.

This is why it's essential to democracy that we have well educated voters with the capacity for critical thinking.

And that is precisely why the neo-fascists in the White House want to crush the middle class, ruin our public schools and make higher education something accessible only to the elite.