Ok, moms & dads: Larry Craig and the restroom sex solicitation thing....

How many of us have ever traveled (by plane, for instance) with a young child (six, seven, eight years old) of the opposite sex from us, and waited outside the restroom while said child used the restroom out of our grasp?

Do we have to worry about some SENATOR (fer cryin' out loud) peeping through the crack in the door while the kid does his business? Do we have to worry about that child being solicited in some way? Well, we worry, whether we really want to or not. But an AIRPORT restroom is NO PLACE for ANY grown man to be soliciting sex, in any way, shape or form. I don't want my youngster to have to watch, or LISTEN to, my senator and some other dude getting it on in the airport restroom.

A bar or club, or some place where kids don't go is not my concern, because nobody would have a youngster going in there to begin with. But an airport men's restroom is NOT a place where just horny men hang out to meet strangers they hope to have sex with....it's a place where young men of all ages go.

What REPUBLICAN Senator Larry Craig clearly attempted was cut short because he picked on the wrong potential partner....an undercover cop, in this case. And it's clear to me WHY the cop was there in the first place. If there had never been any complaints of such behavior, the police dept. would not have sent him in there.

I have NO PROBLEM with consenting adults having sex. It just doesn't need to happen, nor does the solicitation need to happen, in a public restroom where people of all ages will be trekking in and out.

Now the ACLU is defending Larry Craig.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x1828137

I understand their point, to a great extent, and I am all in favor of free speech and expression. But Larry Craig was up to no good, and someone needs to speak out for the kids in this situation, so I just had to post this because it DOES pose a dilemma.

I hope you are not equating homosexuality with pedophilia

for anyone seeking sex in a public rest room must certainly be considered a deviant.
be it male or female,the setting alone should qualify this status

I am not defending the site as a place for sexual relations. But the ACLU's point is you can't arrest him for "intent" to have sex.

with the intent to go elsewhere?

By your definition the majority of gay men up through the 70's were "deviants," because seeking sex in a public restroom was a common behavior when most gay men were closeted.

Not at all. It's even more frightening to think of a pedophile stalking my child while he's in there! But the point I was making re: Larry Craig is that I don't want my youngster to be sitting there in his stall, doing his business, and watching two pairs of feet and a slew of new noises going on in the stall next to his, just as a "for instance".

in airports hither and thither, I have never, ever, seen two pairs of feet in the stall next to me.

so, a Repuke (gay?) senator goes into a bathroom where your son is ... and his mindframe does not make a distinction between homosexuality and pedophilia ...

Plus, he has the cover of "How dare you accuse me of being a homosexual? I am the biggest fighter against the homosexual agenda!" ... acting on the idea that the doubters would think that it's a baseless accusation by his enemies to make him look bad ...

Oh, don't fret, the children's concerns have been well represented on this subject.

On edit and quite seriously: The Minneapolis airport has "family restrooms". Many airports and large public facilities have what are known as family or companion restrooms. If I had a 7 year old of the opposite sex, I certainly would be going in such a restroom with them.

I worked at MSP for 5 years and right next to the bathroom in question is a family restroom and there always HAS been a family restroom there so if any parent is worried about their child being molested by an evil gay man they can use that.

What a fucking ridiculous OP. Where do these people come from?

I was hit by a car while riding my bike. I was also in a car crash while my mom was driving.

Shit happens.. 9/11.. Fear is a shitty way to live your life.

I wouldn't have noticed if Fred Astaire had been in the next stall.

:spray:

Funny!!

Don't forget to tip your waitress.

have just ignored it and never thought about it afterward. But the police aware of certain behaviors and are looking for people to bust. It is really the only reason it became an issue. Using body language to garner ones's attention is a far cry from open solicitation for sex which seems never happened.

I would have been creeped out if someone like Craig had peeked through the door crack at me. And when he waved his hand under the stall partition I'm pretty sure he wasn't showing off his new manicure.

I'm pretty slow but I eventually catch on most of the time.

my look of confusion as I read it must have been priceless. It really sounded like something from SNL or Comedy Channel....

place that might be observed in some way by a young child. It's nice that you were never personally subjected to inappropriate adult sexual behavior in a public restroom, but you are a very small sample. I think it's naive to believe sex doesn't happen in public restrooms. Anyone who engages in such behavior risks endangering a child.

So, I agree w/ the ACLU (of which I'm a proud member) that solicitation between consenting, non-paying adults is protected speech. But, for chrissakes, get a room.

"Solicitation for private sex, regardless if it occurs in a bar or a restroom, is protected speech under the First Amendment," said a news release from the ACLU.

What about soliciting for private sex in the workplace? Is that protected free speech? If so, there's a lot of sexual harassment cases that need to be reversed. If not, then what's the difference?

Gay men do not pose a danger to your kids; they're very unlikely to be peepin' in on anyone's kids. A child in the Craig restroom scenario would have heard nothing inappropriate; just foot tapping.

It's pedophioles, not gay men tapping their feet in public restrooms, that pose a danger to kids.

(i.e., that it wasn't a cop in the stall next to him, but instead a man who wanted to have sex) then they would have????? what??? Taken their sex acts out of the bathroom? Maybe to the starbucks, or something?

:kick:

The risk for a senator is too high, for one thing. There apparently is little risk involved in foot-tapping, which easily can be misconstrued.

Are you suggesting that we start prosecuting people for what the _might_ do? I think it's a lot more likely, in the case of a US senator hitting clandestine paydirt, that he and his _hypothetical_ companion would have adjourned to other environs.

:woohoo: :scared: :woohoo:

Thank this woman for starting it all:

Please Anita, SAVE OUR CHILDREN!

:thumbsup: :rofl:

won't someone please think of the children>!>!

you know what's more damaging to kids? helicopter parents

If I happened to catch someone peeping at me when I'm squatted down....I would have trouble maintaining my non-violent nature.


But,then to really think about it, unless you were trying to peep OUT of the crack in the stall door there's no way eye contact would be made so that you'd catch anyone, anyway.

It all seems so sad and regimented a ritual by a self-loathing man.

were rating the places to acquire homosexual sex in public places and discussing the various contacts, it seems that toilet was Very popular

as for who was in the other stall.. just could have been a minor child, and i don't think the Honorable senator would have asked for an ID.. he is most probably a sex addict

If this joint was a hotbed of sex where kids could walk in any moment and it was so popular, why wasn't there one complaint of a child having seen sexual acts?

I am not condoning this location for sex, but it's reactionary to say the children might see this and that, but they haven't.

papers... email web sites.. HE IS A PREDATOR.. he "HUNTS" sex aggressively.. it escalates

I know all about gay bars and 'ad', but I am not a closeted Republican who votes against gay rights then tries to meet people for sex in unfortunate locations. He pled guilty, tough nuts.


But surely you can't suggest arresting someone that hasn't done anything because "it escalates"?

Of all the offensive assholery I've read on DU since the Craig incident, this is probably the MOST offensive assholery.

Tell me, are straight guys out to get laid "predators"? Is it just a matter of time before they rape a little girl, because they can't control their escalating perversion?

I have so much more to say to you, but it would only get me banned.

CHRIST!

:nuke:

the sting had been set up because there had been a number of complaints about "lewd behavior" in the restroom, but it didn't say who made the complaints.

thereby increasing the foot traffic, so to speak, to that men's room. Let us not forget their role in this activity, and let us give them their credit where credit is due.

'Republcian Compaign Hats...tap foot to make a contribution'

:hide: :rofl: i cant help myself... i dont mar any painted surface.. only the incert box.. it has an appropiate blank space.. just Begging to used

More power to the ACLU!

If the police were serious about stopping the activity in restrooms, they would post signs and patrol with uniformed policemen, just like the ACLU says in their press release. That's more effective than these sting operations.

And anything that keeps Larry Craig in the headlines is just icing on the cake. Donate to the ACLU today!

I can say is tough shit cons!

Did it damage their psyches? Nope.. I went in with them, and waited by the sinks..

No woman ever complained or even commented..

When there dad was with us, he took them in and stayed inside with them..

Most places we went, had the types of bathrooms, where only one at a time could go in, anyway, so it was rarely an issue.. Even then, if the door was unlocked, I would usually peek inside to make sure that someone was not in there ..

"Mom-dar" is second-nature to most moms:)

Two summers ago, an aunt of a young child waited outside a park bathroom for her nephew and he was stabbed repeatedly to death in three minutes. By five minutes she went inside and he died.

Public means ANYONE can just walk in. Thats just not OKAY with me to send a child in there alone. Never was before this, and never will be. I don't care if I have to clear a bathroom myself, check all stalls etc...

Some places now have "family" restrooms. All of them should have that option, imo.

until I started getting frowns from other women and/or the boys protested.

When there were no family restrooms available (most places DON'T have them), I would open the door to the Men's room and look around, then continue to open the door periodically and verbally check in with my child.

The threat has nothing to do with Gay men. It has to do with sicko, possibly murderous, pedophiles who are just waiting for an unaccompanied child.

BTW, I also didn't send my daughter into the Women's restroom alone, either, unless I needed to stand outside of the Men's room checking on my sons. (Calculated risk.)

your chiLdren might enjoy it.

:spray:

:rofl:

would do the same thing a heterosexual adult couple having sex in a bathroom would do if a child OR another adult walked in....

do a fast Shhhhhh! and stand really still until the bathroom was empty again - and then see if both people were still in the mood to finish.

I do a great deal of traveling and most Mens Rooms I visit are very busy...anyone trying to find a quickie would be hard-pressed to find a corner to hide in. Over that time I've run into all types of people saying all types of things...from drunks ranting to kids crying to religious nuts trying to find god or whomever...as long as they mind their own space, I ignore them, do my thing and get on my way.

To me, the biggest problem wasn't with Craig's tapping as much as his looking into the stall beforehand...and then his sticking his foot and hand into that space. It was a willing violation of that person's privacy that couldn't be ignored...and I suspect that the DA may push this as the case if Craig's guilty plea is revoked and the full charges are re-instated.

As far as traveling with children...I always found there were safety in numbers. If my child had to use the facilities and I couldn't go in with, I'd find a very busy area where it'd be difficult for something to happen without someone else seeing it. Again...it's not the "solicitation" that was the real crime here...it was the invasion of privacy...Craig making various moves that made the officer suspect and why he was pinched. Remember, he pleaded down to a lesser charge...that of the solicitation...the one the ALCU is "defending" him on.

It's often very hard to tell if someone is in a stall, particularly if the stall is deep, the door long, the person needing to use the stall has difficulty bending down to see if there are feet under the door, or the person using the stall refuses to answer.

If I can't easily see if the stall is occupied because of any of the aforementioned difficulties, I'm gonna peek through the crack to see if the throne is occupied. Nothing evil - just figure it's more polite to take a quick glance if I'm not sure than to barge in on someone who forgot to lock the door (or in a stall where the door is broken).

Can't believe no one's mentioned this legitimate reason to glance through the crack. Not saying that's what Craig was doing, but its not like you couldn't occasionally catch my eye through the crack between the door and the wall in the stall - and I'm not cruising for anything other than an empty throne.

(Edited to add: Note - there are many other posts outraged about peeping that I could have attached this to in this thread or many others - just sorta grabbed this one at random.)

But, that's just me. MKJ

I agree.

homosexual not a pedophile. Do not confuse the two with your histrionics

having sex in any public bathroom. I had never heard of toe tapping either so I guess someone could have stomped and I wouldn't have had a clue. Parents need to accompany children to the restroom. There are pedophiles out there and they are the concern, not gays.

more than an airport restroom.

What if a child had witnessed Senator Craig's behavior? So what? He tapped his foot. How would this traumatize a child?

I'm not a fan of public bathroom sex. I can't really imagine why anyone would want to do this. But of all the ridiculous responses to this incidence, the one that really takes the cake is "Think of the Children!!!"

I have two children. They are boys. They're teenagers now. Yes, I used to wait outside men's restroom's, and stay vigilant, and worry a little bit. But the one thing I would not have cared a hoot about is some guy tapping his foot in some bizarre code that practically nobody else understands.

Please drop the hand-wringing.

Just excellent. :thumbsup:

:toast:

:pals:

:yourock:

Bwhahahahaha... yeah lets make sure all kids think public bathrooms are dangerous places where you are stalked by roving homophobic gay politicians. Good plan. Not much sensible talk on DU these days, thanks for the post. :toast:

And also the 2-minute long peeping through the stall episode.

Nobody has accused Craig of peeping at a child.

This entire thread is confusing being gay with being a pedophile. Also, as the ACLU is pointing out, the charges are confusing actual public sex with signals of interest to have public sex.

Will we be arresting straight men who wink at women in public now?

should be a law, then fine. But that is what Craig is accused of. Not of being gay or a pedophile.

Foot-tapping can be interpreted in a lot of ways.

address the hand movements and the peering through the stall and so forth.

Hey, I don't blame him for trying to get out of this, but he made a huge mistake in doing this in this in the first place, then pleading guilty and so forth.

They know it would never hold up in court. If Craig had not pled guilty, they would never have pursued this.

"...no, it's not safe yet to come back to DU. The "gay=pedophile" child-shouters are still making themselves heard."

:rofl:

and

:(

but most importantLy

:loveya:

After all, isn't that what restrooms are really for?

(ducking for the bunker...)

However-I DO have a problem with pedophiles.It's important to differentiate between the two.I made my boys go in the ladies room until they were 7-8 because of people like John Wayne Gacy,not Barney Frank.

public place, not whether they happen to be gay. I doubt all gay men have sex in public bathrooms. The issue is only about the people who do solicit and have sex in public places.

The legal question is - is it illegal to send a signal (foot-tapping) that some people recognize as a signal of interest in sex? Since the action itself is not sex, how can Craig be arrested?

if they disagree with that law. But it is on the books and he is accused of it, so I think the ACLU is just using Craig as a way to protest the law against solicitation. Solicitation does not require that the person actually commit the act, only that they are trying to convince someone to do something illegal, like have sex in public places.

being solicitation for sex.

The last time I was in New Orleans a drunk guy gestured to me that I should sit in his lap. His intent was very clear. He was hoping that I would have sex with him. Should he have been arrested for soliciting?

Look, I sympathize with the MN airport police. Obviously, Craig was one of many people who really WERE soliciting for sex in that bathroom. Sting operations like these use humiliation and intimidation to get people to stop.

If Craig had insisted on a court trial, I guarantee that the police department would have dropped the charges. No way would they have wanted to put that undercover vice officer on the stand. Unfortunately for Craig, the sting worked on him the way it works on most perps - he was too embarrassed to fight the charges. He pled guilty.

The point the ACLU is making is that legally, if we allow the police to convict people for such vague behavior, we're tossing our rights out the window. What's to stop the police from arresting people for winking next? With the Patriot Act, people are being arrested for less, and thrown in prison and tortured and denied rights to attorneys or trials.

I think that Craig is a disgusting hypocrite, but I'm 100% behind the ACLU on this, as I am almost always. AND, as a lesbian, I'm equally disgusted with those who are wringing their hands and moaning "think of the children!" as if there's some kind of public sex menace ravaging the country. Show me some straight people arrested for signalling one another for sex. How come it's always gays who are targeted in stings like this?

And besides, straight people *do* get arrested for lewd behavior, disorderly conduct, solicitation for sex as well. Gays are not the *only* ones targeted in stings like this. I think we have a right to have laws against lewd behavior/disorderly conduct in public places and enforce it. Obviously the devil is in the details - what is considered lewd. You may not consider it lewd to do what the Senator did, but most people would.

Most people wouldn't have noticed his behavior, or if they had, they would have thought he was merely behaving in an odd way. Either way, most people would have ignored him or thought nothing of it.

The only people who recognized that behavior as lewd were those men who would be interested in engaging in sex with him, and the undercover police officers.

and I do think they'd notice if someone tapped their foot. We'll have to agree to disagree on this.

If I send my son into a public restroom and he's not out in a reasonable amount of time, I'm going in to find out what the hell is taking so long (sorry guys), and trust me, it's happened plenty of times because my boy screws around a lot. Same with my girls. I KNOW how long it takes my kids to urinate or defecate and if they are in there one second longer, I'm checking up on them. Plus I'm parked right outside the restroom doors, and I see everyone coming and going.

In all the time that my kids have been using public restrooms they have never witnessed anyone having sex, and they have never been solicited for sex.

:sarcasm: :)

There is nothing worse than walking into a bathroom where some idiot decided not to let their precious body touch the toilet seat, so instead they left half the contents of their bladder on the toilet seat for the next person to avoid or clean up.