Who has caused the death of more human beings? Bush or Ahmedinejad?

To paraphrase Forrest Gump: Evil is as evil does, sir.

So, who is really more evil?

Bush?

Or Ahmedinejad?

Doncha know Ahmedinejad is the EVIL one while bush is only the evil one???

I can't wait to read the responses, my guess is the following will be posted, by some, if any at all to what I think is a very good question:

bush isn't an anti-semite, Ahmedinejad is ergo no comparison

can't we just talk about bad Ahmedinejad without bringing bush into it?

why do we have to always do a comparison, after all comparing one bad guy against another doesn't make what Iran is doing alright (nevermind no one is saying it does, lol)

That bush is either an anti arab (who are a semitic people) or anti Muslim.

a debate around whether the current 'understanding' of anti-semite is limited to the jewish population or the the original definition of semite which includes those what are arab as well.

'Morphing' of language from it's original intent to a preferred usage limiting the original definition of a word such as anti-semite is occurring more and more often, sadly imo.

Bush isn't anti-Arab, he's PRO-OIL!

BTW- Iraq is not an Arab country.

Iraqis are mostly Arab.

And bush only likes a few, very rich Saudis, not Arabs in general.

Bush vs. the most infamous dictators in hist. I'm not sure Bush is the worst, with ca. 1.2 million Iraqi deaths on this hands, I suspect he's surpassed Saddam and quite a few others.

rank in the top 20. Think HItler, Stalin, Pol Pot just for starters.

Clinton.

'throughout history'. So no, I don't believe bush makes it in the top ten. And sorry, the sanctions were in accord with the U.N. Not to mention that clinton didn't launch an a disasterous war under the auspices of a big lie.

Started by Bush I finished by Bill.

And I'll grant the "throughout history" deal. 500,000 dead by sanctions is low compared to some earlier 20th century snafus. But certainly murderous and worthy of a firing squad.

In the last 50 years though we suck as a nation.

Maybe not LBJ.

Bush has killed and the other dude hasn't. That doesn't mean he wouldn't but the reality is that the USA has become the absolute worst piece of shit imperialistic power since the Nazis. Or maybe Britain a few dozen decades ago.

last 20 years.

bush has, Ahmedinejad has never had the power bush or any other US president has or had. He can shoot his mouth off but that doesn't equate with power. What do you think his role has been? The highest role he has held prior to being elected to the Presidency of Iran was as Mayor of Tehran:

After the war, Ahmadinejad served as governor of he served as governor of two cities in Western Iran, and later has governor of Ardabil province. However it was his election in 2003 as mayor of Tehran that Ahmadinejad, previously unknown, arrived on the political scene. During his two-year stint as mayor, Ahmadinejad abolished policies put in place by reformist mayors, for example reinstituting gender segregation in many public buildings.

http://worldnews.about.com/od/iran/p/ahmadinejad.htm

Less influential in world affairs than bush, I would say, wouldn't you?

in charge of in the past. Maybe something. Maybe nothing. Can we truely say he's been less influential in world affairs? Nope, because we aren't able to see his whole body of work, especially behind the scenes. Unfortunately, that's one of the products of a closed and repressed country like Iran. There's one voice. The Governments.

The enemy of your enemy isn't always your friend.

Sums it all up perfectly!

Please be specific.

From Amnesty International's most recent report on Iran:

Death penalty
At least 177 people were executed in 2006, including one minor and at least three others who were under 18 at the time of the alleged offence. Death sentences were imposed for a variety of crimes including drug smuggling, armed robbery, murder, political violence and sexual offences. Following domestic and international protests, the death sentences of some women and of some prisoners aged under 18 at the time of the alleged offence were suspended or lifted; some were sentenced to death again after a retrial. Two people were reportedly stoned to death despite a moratorium on stoning announced by the judiciary in 2002. Others remained under sentence of stoning to death. In September, Iranian human rights defenders launched a campaign to save nine women and two men sentenced to death by stoning and to abolish stoning in law. By the end of the year the stoning sentences of at least three of the 11 had been quashed.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/061700-102.htm

In his five years as governor of Texas, the state has executed 131 prisoners -- far more than any other state. Mr. Bush has lately granted a stay of execution for the first time, for a DNA test.

Fuck off.

They both suck.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/061700-102.htm

In his five years as governor of Texas, the state has executed 131 prisoners -- far more than any other state. Mr. Bush has lately granted a stay of execution for the first time, for a DNA test.

have to do with the executions in Iran? You've repeated the reference to chimpy's record as governor three or four times, but repetition doesn't make a non sequitur any less of a non sequitur.

And yos, when someone is accused of being evil then comparing them to someone who is supposedly on the side of the righteous and yet has killed many people is not a non sequitur.

Someone who can save a life and does not is a killer, if indirectly.

I'm not going to play your zero sum game. I never compared Ahmadinejad to chimpy, you did. I am perfectly happy holding chimpy responsible for the deaths of those executed while he was governor. So are you. The difference is that I also hold Ahmadinejad responsible for the executions occurring on his watch. You seem to be giving him a free pass for reasons that you have yet to explain.

And before you bore us all with the contention that he's just a figurehead and has no real power, consider what Human Rights Watch has said:

President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s cabinet is dominated by former intelligence and security officials, some of whom have been implicated in serious human rights violations, such as the assassination of dissident intellectuals. Under his administration, the Ministry of Information, which essentially performs intelligence functions, has substantially increased its surveillance of dissidents, civil society activists, and journalists.

The Ahmadinejad government, in a pronounced shift from the policy under former president Mohammed Khatami, has shown no tolerance for peaceful protests and gatherings. In January 2006 security forces attacked striking bus drivers in Tehran and detained hundreds. The government refused to recognize the drivers’ independent union or engage in collective bargaining with them. In February government forces attacked a peaceful gathering of Sufi devotees in front of their religious building in Qum to prevent its destruction by the authorities, using tear gas and water cannons to disperse them. In March police and plainclothes agents charged a peaceful assembly of women’s rights activists in Tehran and beat hundreds of women and men who had gathered to commemorate International Women’s Day. In June as women’s rights defenders assembled again in Tehran, security forces beat them with batons, sprayed them with pepper gas, marked the demonstrators with sprayed dye, and took 70 people into custody.

Since President Ahmadinejad came to power, treatment of detainees has worsened in Evin prison as well as in detention centers operated clandestinely by the Judiciary, the Ministry of Information, and the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. The authorities have subjected those imprisoned for peaceful expression of political views to torture and ill-treatment, including beatings, sleep depravation, and mock executions. Judges often accept coerced confessions. The authorities use prolonged solitary confinement, often in small basement cells, to coerce confessions (which are videotaped) and gain information regarding associates.

In 2006 two prisoners held for their political beliefs, Akbar Mohammadi and Valiollah Feyz Mahdavi, died in suspicious circumstances in prison. The authorities prevented their families from conducting independent autopsies. The government has taken no action to investigate the cause of the deaths.


I know you don't think he such a bad guy. I think you're wrong.

Where did I say Ahmedinejad was not such a nice guy?

Quotes please..

kinda trumps the power to pardon.

IS "the eviler one"-

Both have been instrumental in encouraging actions which are often called 'evil'.

The numbers are irrelevent- Does the death of 10 people cancel out the death of 6?

Only if all you care about are numbers- it doesn't matter if it was one- it is still wrong.

"Evil is as evil does" says more to me about the fact that you can 'talk' the talk all you like-
You can have all the political spinmasters working overtime to try and sanitize your deeds.
But the deeds will speak louder than any words, and cannot be hidden forever.

Bottom line, they are mere men. Not 'monsters' not 'evil incarnate'- not any other fancy name we put on people to try and seperate 'them' from 'us'- as if by doing so, we keep ourselves safe from having to realize that we are capable of doing equally terrible things. And if we start thinking that we are immune to being cruel and ruthless, we don't listen when our better angels say "consider carefully".

I love thread-killers.

You are absolutely correct, of course.....all of this is done by men. Just men. Not evil incarnate...not the anti-christ, but men.

I would like to think I would act better in their position, though.

so you've noticed it too?

I bathe regularly...~ and brush twice a day...:shrug:


I'd also like to believe i'd act better in a leadership role. Understanding the pit-falls that often come with positions of power would be a good start i think.

:hi:

Then numbers are relevant.

Please be specific.

Consider that Ahmedinejad has very little real power in Iraq before answering.

is NASCAR?

That will settle it.:sarcasm:

And the national sport is soccer.

A murderer is a murderer is a murderer. It only takes the one.

They're just saying that while me may be evil, and may even be the most evil person in the world, Ahmedinejad is evil too.

Ahmedinejad being evil doesn't exclude Bush from being more evil.

Peace.

"Yeah, this horrible dirtbag is better than this horrible dirtbag, because he hasn't killed as many people!"

If he is such a huge killer, that should be a very simple assignment.

http://www.commondreams.org/views/061700-102.htm

In his five years as governor of Texas, the state has executed 131 prisoners -- far more than any other state. Mr. Bush has lately granted a stay of execution for the first time, for a DNA test.


Oh, and by the way, I love you too.. :loveya:

every combination of 'Ahmadinejad, death' and 'Ahmadinejad, responsible, deaths' and didn't come up with anything but the standard 'he is responsible for the deaths of American soldiers' line.

So, I am going to guess that George Bush is responsible for more deaths than Ahmadinijad, even if it wasn't with his bare hands.

And, that's just the homegrown ones.