Thought exercise: What if....

There were no Jews?

I see "Zionist Influences" and "Zionist Conspiracies" bandied about enough by the left, the right, the MidEast, the Koreans, the pretty much everyone.

So, since there is so much Judenhass and so many folks who believe the world would be better off without Jews, let's examine what the world would be like, without Jews. We could pick virtually point in history where the extermination of the Jews happened, since they have been attempted to be wiped out over and over again throughout history. (Those crafty Jews! When will they learn that teaching people how to read, write and think critically will just keep getting them hated.)

I guess we can just say they never existed at all for the purposes of our thought exercise.

So who are some of the famous people, vanished from the pages of history?

Let's see...

Sigmund Freud (though a practicing atheist, he was born Jewish, thus not born at all by this exercise)
Albert Einstein
Karl Marx
Edward Teller
Jonas Salk (hope your kids like Polio)
Robert Oppenheimer

There are a few to get you started.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_scientists_and_philosophers
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jewish_inventors
It a lot of long lists, so do your own research:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Jews

Now, how would that apply to the modern world? Would we be better off? I am sure eventually we would have gotten that Polio vaccine. I would assume we also would have *eventually* figured out E=MC^2.

In closing, I am not posting this to be racist. I am posting this to point out that Jewish people have made incredibly valuable contributions to society since they started teaching people how to read. The only conspiracy you can accuse the Jews as a race of being involved in is that of trying to make the world a better place for everyone.

Just remember that after the Iran war starts and fails and the Administration starts blaming those eeeeevil jooos for doing it and then A.N.S.W.E.R. and other organizations join in and agree. Sensible people can make what happened in Germany in the 30s NOT happen here. Just keep your eyes and ears open and remember that no "race" is psychically endowed to co-ordinate their actions world-wide.

Are you accusing DU of being full of "Judenhass"? :shrug:

other "left-leaning" websites with remarks like "the Jews need to start trying to figure out what is wrong with themselves that people have hated them for so long" and "Hitler was right about the Jews".

Of course there is no Judenhass on DU. :eyes:

Only people who routinely call on boycotts of Jewish owned businesses if they don't come out against Israel. Only "legitimate" criticism of Israel and how Israel and AIPAC secretly run the banks, the media and the government of the US.

Nah, not Judenhass on DU, not the slightest little bit. Everyone knows that liberals and lefties cannot possibly be racists. :eyes:

to keep out the RW trolls. I know I've seen some pretty nasty stuff on the HuffingtonPost. As for the insinuations about DU, I suggest that you alert the moderators if you see something genuinely antisemitic or racist in any other way.

And yes, I do think that AIPAC exerts an undue influence on our country's political process. You can alert on this post if you think that statement is antisemitic.

I would just like to know how much influence you think AIPAC has on our countries political process.

mean the people themselves were also deleted?

My parents were Baptist, grew up across the street from the church in rural southern Ohio, got dunked and all that, but it didn't take.

I don't see any religion as a bad thing necessarily, but religion of all types can be taken to extremes.

Thats not much different that a lot of other things like drugs, alcohol, etc.

I will choose free will. (Rush, the band not the fat ass)

history since late Roman times and through the era of the decline of the Western empire would have been vastly different and ultimately unrecognisable; it goes just a bit further than people like Einstein and Marx and so on not being born.

Ok, maybe not all but Einstein and Marx, puhleees!

Love them I do!

I just don't like the Zionists or much of what Israel has done to the Palestinians and Lebanon.

I doubt it. Oh, maybe sometime, but it might have been a century or two. We're talking truly revolutionary insight with that one.

But to your more general point - what's the point? Oh, I know there is plenty of antisemitism, and that tends to prompt a desire to offer an alternative point of view. But it is somehow offensive to me to attempt to justify the existence of an entire people by saying "look here - see - some of them did something worthwhile". It almost seems to validate the critics. Jews are people with a right to exist as a people. Even if they were all dumb and lazy.

It's myopic and obnoxious and not driven by a desire to do what's right.

:shrug:

can't question anything Israel does without being lumped in with the Nazis. There are Jews themselves, some even living in Israel, who criticize what Israel does. It's just a variation of "Why do you hate America?" from right wing idiots who want to change the level of discussion from intellectual to emotional.

Jerry Lewis!





Sorry, I really don't get the point of this thread. Has anybody here wished to retroactively eliminate all Jews?

I have just heard the sentiment echoed all too often lately on "the left" that Jews are the root of all problems, Jews are pushing for war with Iran, etc.

Just reminding people what Jews have done for the world so that for some of the readers at least, it will be a little more difficult to turn a blind eye to the eventual pogroms that will come to pass here in the US after the Iran war goes badly.

Seriously, I think you're overreacting.

I haven't heard ANYBODY on the left say Jews are the root of all problems.


And one can argue against such extremism without saying "Hey! Here are some GOOD Jews!"

I would say it is.

The night after the Jewish Center Shooting, during the Israel/Hezbollah war, we saw people here in streets shouting "Viva Hezbollah!". Given that Hezbollah's core message is the extermination of the Jews, the "It can't happen here" line really doesn't do anything for me anymore.

And it is happening more and more, in more and more places.

It is happening.

And yes. Pogroms.

You say it is overreaction, I say it is a reaction to an existing situation. A situation which will get much worse after Bush goes to war with Iran. I would easily bet you that within 12 hours of going to war, there will be plenty on conspiracy theorists and others right here on DU who will say that we have gone to war with Iran at the behest of Israel and/or AIPAC, when the truth is we will have gone to war because our president is a crazy cowboy.

Because they're in Seattle, they're therefore leftists?

Sorry, I find this whole thread in really bad taste. There are plenty of reasonable, logical arguments to be made against anti-semitism without compiling a list of "good jews".

Further, somebody questioning the role of AIPAC in American politics doesn't mean they advocate the extermination of Jews.

I mean just because someone says that AIPAC controls the government and that people with dual loyalty to Israel run the media and that Zionist influences run the banks, that's way different than Der Sturmer.

I think you are exaggerating criticism of Israel's actions as a nation into that sentiment.

Or any sympathy shown to the Palestinians caught in the problem. It is getting tiresome and proves Israel may be in the wrong that no one who blindly supports it can do anything but exaggerate.

No one says the Jews have not had amongst them great people. So does any other group. Guess what, amongst the Jews may be evil people, too. It's the individual, not the group. Any group has its evil and good and masses of those in the grey areas. Now twist that into "anti-Semitism" as I'm sure you can. You're claiming racial superiority if you claim a particular group has no individuals in it that never do wrong, either.

:eyes:

Ew.

Like n*gger and f*g and c*nt, right? Not your terms, but you'll use them when appropriate.

:puke:

Just bc you didn't invent something, doesn't make it okay.

Besides he lives in FL. and we have to make allowances.:rofl:

he got a big of flak for.

Just kidding. ;)

Someone else would have been able to come up with the H-bomb, but I'm sure they wouldn't have been so enthusiastic to actually use it against people. Give me a couple more Oppenheimers.