If a state tried to secede now, what do you think would happen?

I don't think this WILL happen, but what if it did?

I mean I don't know any other scenario - nobody would want to fail in the shadow of Lincoln.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

can't have any of that nasty stuff happening.

U.S. Senators. Cornyn. Hutchison. Coburn. Inhofe. Yuck.

Border Cities Block Access To Fence Land

Source: AP

Brownsville -- Mayors along the Texas-Mexico border have begun a quiet protest of the federal government's plans to build a fence along the border.

They have refused access to their land.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3014454

What a disgrace for the U.S. to pressure Russia to bring the Berlin Wall down and then put that damn fence up along our southern border.

A disgrace.

At least that's the way I remember it. I don't think Reagan said tear down this wall so all the poor West Germans could rush into the wonderfully beautiful East Germany for jobs and opportunity. I seem to remember everyone coming West to freedom and democracy.

Haves to disenfranchise and isolate the have-nots.

Walls are divisions of the will of a people to identify and act as a collective, as a community, as family, as friends.

The Berlin Wall was built by the Russians (Haves) to disenfranchise and isolate the have-nots (West Germany)?

The Easterners could only get out when they were retired and of no use to the government. My wife's family had relatives on both sides of the wall. Believe me, the wall was not built to stop anyone coming in. It was to stop the brain drain going out.

was allowed in for the purpose of spending dollars in East Berlin. I was not permitted to travel outside of a small area of East Berlin. East Germany was prevented from fully closing the border access from west because the western powers fought their attempts.

This was a major issue of the Cold War.

The Iron Curtain was the wall of its day. We could not travel freely to Iron Curtain countries, trade was limited, and people could not get out to the west.

Youth culture had been making enormous strides in changing Iran until recently.

Future quote...

Remember, the purpose of the Berlin Wall was keep East Germans in East Germany. The fence on the Souther border is to keep people from entering the country illegally much more like Hadrian's wall in Britain.

I believe that it comes up regularly in their state legislatures.

I think it's a good idea myself. I'd say break the thing up into a thousand pieces if you want. However, if any organized section remained, we'd just end up right back here again. That's the problem with growth.

Check this out:

http://www.vermontrepublic.org/

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_gains_traction/

"The argument for secession is that the U.S. has become an empire that is essentially ungovernable -- it's too big, it's too corrupt and it no longer serves the needs of its citizens," said Rob Williams, editor of Vermont Commons, a quarterly newspaper dedicated to secession.
"Congress and the executive branch are being run by the multinationals. We have electoral fraud, rampant corporate corruption, a culture of militarism and war. If you care about democracy and self-governance and any kind of representative system, the only constitutional way to preserve what's left of the Republic is to peaceably take apart the empire."

http://www.boston.com/news/local/vermont/articles/2007/06/03/in_vermont_nascent_secession_movement_gains_traction/

Ah, if only! If Vermont did secede, then I guess they'd have to build their own fence to keep from being flooded with refugees from the US.

This is why watching the political show talking heads is counter-productive. the people we need to be watching are the media giant owners and ceos.

...I have been touting this for almost a decade because it would be hard for U.S. to fight the move, IMO. It would be something that would immediately reap benefits for both Canada and the states that seceded ~ no more paying taxes for a needless war that would be good for Canadian coffers, universal healthcare for all, and while at this time the government is more conservative, it is "far left" to ours, our vote would actually be counted ~ by hand, our economy would not be damaged because we are already very tied in with theirs, education, especially higher education would be far less expensive, all the wing nut states that make us pay for their loony ideas such as faith based education/social programs/ wars or what ever they impose but do not pay (most of them pay far less revenue than "blue" states), the list goes on. We would enhance Canada with our resources and population. The only "downside" I can see is that we would have to also learn French, (Ooooo!).

My 2 cents

Cat In Seattle

:toast:

Julie

:hi:

What makes you think Canada would want us, eh?

(his personal army) to attack, kill and subdue all us Democrats! After they did away with Democrats...they would surround the capital and White House and protect their Dear Leader.

That bunch of Fundies scare the hell out of me should there ever be any sign of dissent in this country. God help us!

:silly:

They named an airport down here after trent "helmut-head" lott, and he isn't even dead!
:crazy:

I don't have the same impression of Mississippians as I do of Texans. Right wing Texans are the biggest assholes I've ever met in my life. Mississippians still have a little southern soul left.

Besides just the South, there have been mutterings about it from many places.

Vermont , Maine, The Upper Peninsula of Michigan, The Panhandle of Idaho have all had campaigns of varying levels of seriousness about Seceding from the USA and either forming their own nations or becoming part of Canada.


Has anyone heard of other states who had grassroots movements like this? I know West Virginia had something but it was more like a name change or something.

We only think about Idaho when we eat a potato or one of their congressmen does something stupid.

tried it, a citizen would sue and the Supreme Court would decide the issue (unless they determined it was non-justiciable).

by Ernest Callenbach:
Ecotopia.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia
and,
Ecotopia Emerging.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ecotopia_Emerging

Either by military action or economic sanctions any state that seceded would be forced to rejoin.

We would also get to enjoy a big argument about the legality of secession. Do the states for them Union and retain the right to break away or does the supremacy of the national government mean it's a one way street and once you're in, you're in for good? We would get to see a rehash of some of the pro and anti secession debates that went on during the Civil War. Strict Constitutionalists vs. the spirit of the Declaration of Independence. Nation of Laws vs. Nation of Ideas. From a scholarly historical perspective it would be very interesting. Maybe we would finally amend the Constitution to explicitly outlaw secession from the Union.

I don’t really see a major divide between different regions in this country to justify secession anymore. We have blue areas in red states and red areas in blue states. You can find purple just about anywhere you look on election maps.

Maybe if something like this happened there would be a split.

Dr. Peter Venkman: This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Mayor: What do you mean, "biblical"?
Dr Ray Stantz: What he means is Old Testament, Mr. Mayor, real wrath-of-God type stuff.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Exactly.
Dr Ray Stantz: Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies. Rivers and seas boiling.
Dr. Egon Spengler: Forty years of darkness. Earthquakes, volcanoes...
Winston Zeddemore: The dead rising from the grave.
Dr. Peter Venkman: Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together - mass hysteria.

Read the rest here: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071003/ap_on_re_us/secessionist_movement_1

Sometimes, I think the federal government would like to give my state to Canada (Michigan).

I know you're talking hypotheticals, but did you have one in mind? Montana seceding for (say) libertarian purposes would be different from California or Texas seceding to (say) keep that sweet, sweet tax income away from the federal government.

How they try would be a big deal, too; a referendum would probably be handled differently than a rebellion, of course!

Then we'd get to watch all kinds of cool robot bomb & cruise missle video footage. Boom!

The demise of the USA would free up vast territory. The West is 50% public land.

I often wonder if Bushco is trying to break up the USA for this reason.

Also, if CA leaves the Union, the Rs become politically as dominant as Rove hoped.