Are black heroes being singled out?

Michael Vick
Barry Bonds
Marion Jones

It's hard to defend their actions, but is seems there is an agenda and MSM is backing it up. Would white stars get the same treatment?

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

Yes, they do. Examples:

Rick Ankiel
Lance Armstrong
Floyd Landis

Never heard of Ankiel.

That, alone, sets him way apart from Bonds who has plenty of defenders as well as detractors.

the only 'white' bad guy who has recieved such treatment that I can think of would be Pete Rose-

Baseball is a lot more popular than cycling. In fact, I can honestly say I don't know a single person who follows cycling in any way, shape, or form.

Had Bonds had the good sense to retire like McGwire he would've been given a pass like McGwire. But instead he chose to stick around like a sore, 'roid bloated thumb.

why would you say such a thing, your statement is based on bigotry and biased from media influence. I don't think Bonds should be treated the he has been and further more he is been vindicated by folks that don't want him to break Aaron's record. Barry is one of the best bats man IMO base ball has ever seen (yep!! I said it), his preparation when he is on the plate is like no one else, thats how you can determine a powerful hitter. Whenever you get the chance just watch him.

Without steroids, there's a 99% chance he'd have been top-5 all time (as projected by the PECOTA algorithm, as well as linear regression adjusting for the environment of the years in which played). With steroids, he's the absolute best of all time.

If you look at Bonds Baseball card from his rookie year to now there is no doubt in my mind he used roids. I guess I am a Bigot too. On Edit: Mcgwire used roids, white guy, Palmeiro used roids Mexican. I am just on a Bigoted roll.

Landis has been completely destroyed and disgraced by the media, and rightly so. Armstrong would be if there were the same preponderance of evidence that exists for Bonds--that is, if he had actually admitted to taking them to a grand jury.

admit to a grand jury that he had taken illegal performance enhancing drugs???

Please educate me-
(not sarcastic- don't want to be ignorant)

He claimed that he believed they were not actually steroids, but rather were flaxseed oil and vitamin B. This is rather unlikely, considering that BALCO (the laboratory they originated from) had numerous files on hand for Barry Bonds (including testing and billing information), and that the drugs that he had taken were customized for his body chemistry.

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/12/03/MNGGFA0UDU65.DTL

even heard about this article.

There's alot to digest in it- and it brings up many new questions.

Why did they never bring him up on charges if they had all the 'evidence' to support them?

Why bring in all the other substances when it is only "steroids" that the league tests for and bans?

How would these drugs make him a better home run hitter? It isn't about 'strength'- but rather about timing, patience, concentration and skill?
Don't mean to de- rail this thread-

Thanks for the good link - I really appreciate your help.
:hi:

This isn't an MLB investigation into who broke the rules, it's a federal investigation into whether BALCO was creating and distributing illegal substances.

There actually has been an ongoing Federal investigation into Bonds himself; they've several times considered moving to indict him, but each time decided that they weren't sure they had enough evidence to convict.

The drugs make him a better home-run hitter almost entirely because of strength, actually. Strength increases bat speed. Bat speed makes a hit go farther, which leads to more home runs, yeah. It also allows him to hang back on a ball a fraction of a second longer, helping him decide whether to swing for the fences or take it as a ball. It also allows him to more quickly recover from initial mistakes, allowing him to foul off pitches, keeping him from striking out or making a bad swing and popping it up. In addition, increased power makes it more likely that popups and long flies carry into the stands out of play, keeping them from being caught and saving him from making an out.

In addition, steroids increase the ability of muscles to recover, allowing him to play more games while decreasing the exhaustion of a 162-game season, and allowing him to work out (and train in batting cages) for longer periods of time.

Barry Bonds is an incredibly talented person, don't get me wrong. Even without steroids, he'd be one of the best five baseball players of all time, hands down. It's a pity he had to ruin what should have been a heroic reputation (along the lines of Willie Mays or Babe Ruth) just because he wanted to be the absolute best.

:rofl:



Wow!!! I guess this has nothing to do with focus/mental prowess then,

However, the advantages of extra strength are real, statistically measurable, and exist for the reasons I wrote. If you can't understand the advantages that batspeed brings you--even after I explain every single one of them--then I don't know what to say. Maybe you've never held a bat in your hands; I don't know.

Barry Bonds is an incredibly talented human being. He also has gotten an extra edge from his steroid usage.

If I were to juice up, I still couldn't make single-A. I was a mediocre high-school pitcher (who relied on junk changeups and curveballs; I had the worst fastball on the team) and a downright terrible batter. I could swing my bat at the speed of sound and I'd still suck. I'm not saying that steroids make you a good hitter automatically, because they don't. I wouldn't have a chance no matter how many drugs I took. I don't have the coordination, and I can't track pitches very well at all.

But for people who have those abilities, steroids are very useful indeed. If you're a good hitter, they'll make you a very good hitter. If you're a great hitter, they'll make you an excellent hitter. If you're an excellent hitter, they can make you good enough for the majors. If you're a good major leaguer, they might make you an All-Star. If you're an All-Star, they might make you a Hall of Famer. If you're naturally a Hall of Famer, they can make you do things nobody's ever seen before.

See: Barry Bonds.

He at one time was the single most tested athlete out there and he NEVER FAILED a drug test. He is not even in the same category as Landis and Jones.

is that so many drugs are undetectable. That was the problem with the drugs Bonds took, after all--they were specifically designed to be invisible to testing.

The problem with Armstrong, though, is indeed that there is no solid proof that links him to anything. All he's got on him is suspicion and an inhuman string of success.

Despite the enormous cloud of suspicion that surrounds him, he seems to be biking with bush and getting the full 'american hero' treatment. Then again he had an excellent pr agent who immunized him with his yellow wrist band campaign.

Vick is a pathetic buffoon. The treatment of Bonds is a joke given that just about EVERYONE in baseball, and arguably almost EVERYONE in major league football baseball and basketball has used enhancement drugs of some sort or other during their careers. Look at these people. They are not the same sort of human beings who were playing professional sports 30 years ago. I don't think this is a natural phenomena.

Armstrong was tested repeated and they found nothing. Bonds supposedly was given secret tests and the results were not made public.

Armstrong has managed to escape from the fate of Landis. Bonds also has not been officially 'caught'. You are applying one standard to Armstrong, and another to Bonds.

with un-known results isn't 'good enough' for you?


:sarcasm:

What kind of "performance enhancing drugs" would actually make Bonds able to hit home runs so well? Do those drugs work on the "eye"? The concentration? The patience?

Hmmm....- maybe I can find me some of them.

please let me know cause I'm looking too.


:sarcasm:


Don't wanna miss out on this wonderful hang time, and knowing when to hit or miss the ball.

:rofl:

With greater batspeed, you can hold off longer, and can foul off pitches better. Using steroids actually does improve both pitches seen per plate appearance and contact rate because of that.

Human Growth Hormone also sharpens eyesight. You might want to buy some of that too, and the player's association has refused to allow MLB to test for it (it requires a blood test, since it doesn't show up in urine.) Amphetamines heighten reflexes; those weren't even tested for until last year.

Denny McLain, Bob Probert. Rick Tochett.

Sid

And who would consider Vick or Bonds "heroes?" I do not mention Marion Jones because I am not familiar with her situation, but I would suspect Bonds is only a hero to the most pathetic of Giants fans and no doubt Vick is the greatest to those who like to see dogs fight each other to the death, with one dying and the other being left with incredible scars and pain. Yeah they are being singled out.

(Jones is an Olympic champion was failed a drug test but claimed that there was some oddity. She has since confessed and is returning her Olympic medals)

The enormous difference between Bonds and Armstrong is that Armstrong was tested again and again and again for doping, and nothing was ever found. Bonds was clearly doping but it was legal in baseball back then (although he or his trainer probably broke a few laws).

Bonds, Jones, and Vick singled themselves out by crossing the line.

other broke a record or two.


Vick, on the other hand, is just a scumbag. Ask Pete Rose about scumbaggery. Or John Rocker.

Are black athletes singled out when they are put on the cover of magazines and glorified for their expertise on the fields of sports? I guess its okay for sportscasters etal to fall all over themselves highlighting the good one does. Surely thats not "singling out."

you are just being silly now.

:shrug:

then Michael Jordan wouldn't be an international hero. Nor Muhammed Ali. Nor Lebron James or Tiger Woods or Carmello Anthony or Donovan McNabb or Marvin Harrison or LaDanian Tomlinson or Carl Lewis or Carol Lewis or Reggie Miller or Cheryl Miller or the hundreds of others who are compose the American sports scene.

You don't think the fact that Tiger Woods is one of the very FEW black golfers ever, enters into the media overkill around him? You don't think that there aren't people working overtime looking for ways to catch him screwing up???

How about Hank Aaron? Do you really believe the media is 'color blind'?

Mohammed Ali is getting far better "press" than he used to- I'm not a boxing fan, but I can remember his being flaunted by the press at every opportunity-

But think about this:

• Are there any black hockey players? If the answer is yes, and you never heard of them, isn't that an indication that being being black is trumped by being "just another hockey player"?
  
• Was Tiger Woods the first black golfer? Can you name any others?
  
• Are the Williams sisters the only black tennis players? Can you name others?

Just as with every other thread started on this subject, it all boils down to the same thing: we're supposed to be outraged every time that the media reports on a transgression by an athlete who happens to be black. Sorry, but I'm not outraged.

are the one who brought up Ali- and if he wasn't so ruined by boxing I doubt sincerly that many would have the fond words for him that I've heard.

There is a very VERY new Nascar racer who is black- and YES- he is getting a LOT of press, simply because he is black. Is that fair? I don't think so, and I'd be willing to bet that he'd much rather have any attention paid to him due to his abilities NOT his 'color'.

I can name many tennis players who were exploited for reasons other than their tennis abilities- sexual orientation was a big issue for several that come to mind-

Arthur Ashe was well known for his tennis abilities.

I'm not sure I understand what you are asking about the hockey issue. I don't know of any black hockey players- I actually don't know much about hockey players other than a few oldies.


Have you taken into consideration the fact that sports, music and entertainment are a few of the rare occupations which offered black americans a chance to participate, and find a kind of success?

Seriously- I know it may be difficult for people outside the situation to see this for what it is, but I do believe that there is a very real and serious issue here.

Look at the proportion of 'stars' who are found out- How do they match across racial/ethnic/sexual boundries? are you willing to make a case that blacks and other minorities are disproportunately ....'bad'- (for lack of a better word)?????


:shrug:

If not, what is YOUR explanation?

(whisper) Vick did not get busted for steroid, he was somewhat involved in dog fighting (end of whisper) lets make that clear, the point is Black athletes are more scrutinized more so that their white counterpart, we accept it or we can't thats understandable since we all see different colors.

(Analogy) Whats white to me can be cream to you....get it!!

Who? Drunken sportsbar patrons?

Let me check those folks of African descent that I admire...

Nelson Mandella...still alive (heh-heh)

Forest Whitaker...still one of the best underrated actors in the biz...

Dave Chapelle...still rich bee-och!

and probably some Atlanta Falcons fans too, for what it's worth, but as this thread glaringly reveals, Americans as a whole are very shallow in picking their heroes, or should I say having them picked for them.

It's all related to our cultural downswing perpetrated by the trash media, and in conjunction with our screwed up values and priorities.

I've worked for some pro-sports teams (nothing glamorous.) I've found that most of them are either incredibly stupid high school jocks who've never had to grow up or weird holy roller types.

A few shining exceptions come to mind: Ken Griffy Jr. is a really nice guy.

Yes our heroes are picked for us...sad but true.

ask Mark McGwire
Lance Armstrong

They're all doped up just like Marion, but one group gets more airplay.

Little known fact...

Each and every media outlet in this country has on their staff an "Editor of Racial Bias" (you'll never see this person credited on the masthead, but trust me, they do exist). This persons sole job is examine and scrutinize news reports and police blotters for damaging and embarrassing information regarding black heroes, athletes and celebrities.

On their desk sits two boxes (actually it's one box and a trash can), for "filing" incoming stories where the ethnic identity of the person(s) is well known. If say a Michael Vick or Barry Bonds is involved, it gets filed in the "further investigation" box (you can probably guess where the "others" get filed).

Once one is found (and by gum they will find one), a high priority alert is sent out over the wires so the witch hunt and lynching can begin. Once set in motion, all other news stories are put on the back burner until the black "hero" in question is throughly embarrassed and crucified.

There... feel better now?

someone, somewhere would eventually get it and lay it out nicely, most people have not worked in these kind of environment hence the ignorance, we have to excuse some, but majority are driven by bigotry, which IMO is sickening.

they're athletes and nothing more.

...of mine, I do believe the media crush which descended on each was, as the GOP behavior watchers (Tucker Carlson, Bill O'Reilly or Pat Buchanan please pick up the white courtesy phone!) would say was 'over the top', had 'crossed the line' and simply 'gone too far'.

I think the media figured out some time ago that a Black bogeyman (or woman) captures the attention of large swaths of the US. Perhaps many whites still seek confirmation that, 'dadgummit, we were right about those folks! Give 'em a chance and look what they'll do'!

Just as a Black female was at one time, and perhaps is still, considered a 'two-fer' in that she satisfied two minority requirements (Black and female), a mis-behaving Black famous person is a media two-fer. The first way the media are served is that America apparently loves to see Black failure, even of the less-than-universally-loved group listed in the original post and its first response. We in the US apparently feast on that stuff, given the coverage allotted to it. Consequently, its distraction value is high and these times have much from which the public should be distracted, in their view. Secondly, vilifying Blacks in general is an end unto itself.Think I'm exaggerating? Just remember the photos from Katrina where the Blacks were looting while the whites were finding food!

in and of itself, speaks loudly.

Unfortunately I believe what you suggest is something that is not only true, but it is so deeply entrenched in our society, that people will twist themselves into knots trying to deny it.

The very FEW examples cited to suggest that "white" heroes are 'equally targeted'- are so lame, and represent a minute percentage of the white 'heroes' in society. (will people attempt to make the case that more "blacks" screw up, or cheat?)

It is racism- subtle, and deeply rooted- but racism none the less.

A similar statement could apply to most all 'minorities'- (Martha Stewart-for example)


:hi:

There should be zero coverage of Michael Vick's trials and tribulations? That journalists can only cover him when he scores a touchdown or leads the Falcons to victory? I asked the question earlier and have yet to get an answer. Maybe you can help me out. Singled out by whom and for what reason? An amorphous "deep entrenchment" is not an answer. Journalists are out for blood regardless of who is bleeding.

working at a solution.

If I had a solution, I'd offer it- Pretending the problem doesn't exist is NOT a solution- Denial is the worst 'remedy' to any problem.

Are black/minority/not wealthy white males singled out and demonized for offenses?

Ask yourself that question as if no one had to know what your answer is.- Ask yourself why that could be, and what you might think of the situation if you sat on "the other side".

Do you deny that driving while black is not a REAL issue in this country?
Do you think that there is not still rampant racism hidden under a 'semblance' of inclusion and 'equal rights' in this nation?


The 'journalists' may be out for blood, regardless of the target- but the amount of 'air-time' 'copy' that an issue gets is manipulated by editors and corporate pressures.

Why?

because people are often very ruthless- anxious to point fingers at others, so that we can feel less guilty about our own issues, in the shadows of others 'glaring' evil deeds.?

arrest, pending trial, testing positive for Marijuana and other aspects of his situation is not a problem. His arrest, pending trial, testing positive for Marijuana and other aspects of his situation is a problem; but I guess we should just ignore that. After all they were just dogs.

But you do have a point. I was perusing this mornings edition of the New Orleans Times-Picayune. They have a "Wanted by the Law" section complete with pictures and not a white face amongst them. The paper is obviously deeply entrenched in racism since they seemingly, day after day after day only show pictures of blacks (mostly males) wanted for crimes. They are obviously "singling" those suspects (who have warrants for their arrest and are believed to be in the New Orleans area) only because they are black. About two or three days a month they throw in the token white guy for balance.

great at judging when people are being sarcastic- so rather than make an ass out of u and me, I'll ask-
Was your second paragraph meant to be sarcasm?

Or were you stating an honest observation?

great pair because I'm not very good at sarcasm. Is it the intent of the Times-Picayune (T-P) to only publish pictures of black people wanted for committing crimes? Should it not do so? Is it a public service or a blatant display of crass racism? Do they intentionally not publish pictures of white people wanted for crimes? I sure would like to know so I can confront the paper. I'd be more then happy to do just that. Or I guess I can just gratuitously accuse them of deep entrenchments.

and there were two separate stories complete with pictures of the suspects. A white guy arrested for raping a six year old and another white guy (who worked at a school) for having child pornography on his computer. I don't understand it. These guys are white. Why is the paper singling them out and publishing titillating stories about their alleged aggregious behavior?

because all child molesters are white males-
:sarcasm:


But you've hit on a truth- Sex sells- especially this kind- according to the media.

And similar to the sexual tittilation, is the animal murdering and mutilation.
What these things have to do with sports is anyones guess.



I gotta go be productive now- thanks for the discussion Boss-

peace~

we've got a judicial system rife with racial injustice, but using Vick or Bonds, or any other obscenely rich athlete as poster children for this particular issue is not valid.

...smashed windows and stolen bread, pampers and other stuff while the white folks similarly situated actually did find bread floating downstream...

Yeah, you DO have a point. It's just that it seems like it's made to the white-pointy-hat wearing segment of DU.

Lots of the top cyclists have been caught cheating or are under suspicion. This is a big story in Europe. Not a single one is black.

Mark McGwire (drugs)

Joe Torre (racism)

John Rocker (ultra racism and homophobia)

Pete Rose (gambling, and gawdknowswhat)

All white, all 'nabbed', and none making news like the three in the OP.

TC

Banned from baseball for life. Too bad he got such a slap on the wrist, huh.

Well... at least she used to.

He'd probably still be in jail, let alone banned from baseball.

GMAFB.

TC

after a lengthy media villainizing.

:eyes:

First isn't making the HoF, and the second got booed out of baseball.

to even the equation, Barry fell into that pot.

He's the most obviously juiced man in baseball, with the greatest trail of evidence--and he just broke the most hallowed record in sports. Plus, he's kind of a dick. You couldn't ask for a better villain.

You have got to be kidding.

How many children have dogs ? A dog is the first friend that a lot of children have. Are they suppose to idolize a thug who beats dogs to death and forces them to fight ? Not at my house, they don't.

given a stiff enough punishment.

I didn't want to get off the main subject of the OP, but since you brought it up, what Vick did deserved a much heavier punishment.

TC

or are you saying they should have brought more charges against him?

By the way, Virginia has said it will also bring charges against him, so he'll likely be in jail for a while. But I agree, he deserves to.

Vick may never play football again. He's ruined and though he may deserve what he gets, I doubt a white player would have received that much attention from the press or the authorities. Remember, one aspect of fascism is the unequal imposition of the rule of law.

Thank you both for the information.

TC

maybe I'm being naive, but I think that any major NFL quarterback would have received that type of attention. Vick was going to be the new face of Nike. You can get into all sorts of discussions about the racial dynamics of that, but the bottom line is, he was one of the premier and marquis stars of the NFL, and I think that probably had more to do with all the attention than his color.

I'm not discounting the fact that there is extreme racial prejudice in our justice system, there most certainly is. I will also concede that it also most probably did contribute to Vick's being caught. Had he been white, the Feds may not have been so snoopy about what was going on at his property. None of this excuses his actions however.

is the fact that most people will consider dog as a mans best friend while Black people are chased, thrown a noose and vilify for Gawd knows what.

You toucha my dog you're history......you kill a black and you're secretly a hero. Go figures!!!!

heroes which the MSM allowed to be ravaged.

Unlike Vick, Bond, Jones, Armstrong, Landis, etc - Jerry and Cleland did not in fact lie and break the rules.

Like Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.?
I would say he was singled out, yes.

Although, I would not include Vick on your list. His crimes were heinous.

I just finished reading "Game of Shadows," which I found utterly fascinating.

According to this book, Bonds was offered immunity from prosecution if he testified truthfully before a grand jury regarding his use of performance enhancing drugs, just as the other atheletes who were under suspicion were. Bonds is believed widely to have not told the truth, whereas the other atheletes accepted the immunity bargain. I'm not pro- or anti-Bonds, and I don't like the apparent vendetta by certain investigators to "get" him, but I don't think it is out of line to indict him along with the BALCO cronies for perjury. The entire steroid issue is so complicated and will be so hard to sort out that I think the various Leagues and Associations are avoiding it like the plague, but at some point it will have to be faced directly. Not just him but McGuire, Sosa, etc.. That is for baseball fans to figure out.

In this same investigation, the investigators decided not to go after Jones because she parted company with Victor Conte before the time period they were focused on. The evidence against her was not as strong. She decided to come clean apparently on her own.

she got done for have $25,000 in her account, don't believe everything you read, learn to read between the lines.



With Jones they where out to get no matter what, everyone she is associated with is automatically investigated, why I asked why

:shrug:

"Black" may make it slightly more entertaining but the same would happen if they were white.

Lance Armstrong
Brittney Spears
Nichole whatshername


etc, etc, etc

Benoit didn't deserve it, and the msm never retracted a thing they said about "roid rage" the uneducated twits they are.

Find me a white athlete who tortured dogs and tell me they skated.

Barry Bonds has been unlikable (mostly by his fellow athletes...many of them black) for years and is an easy target.

Marion Jones lied numerous times and is still blaming someone else for her use of steroids.

Stop with the victim reaction and in your own words "it's hard to defend their actions". Don't defend them then.

As for OJ...come on. The guy is a psychopathic murderer. I love the extreme left, they are so hysterical.

But, I thought O.J. was found innocent. Apparently, you're much wiser than the jury. I guess the rule of law doesn't apply to black people.

I didn't say that...bring your drama elsewhere

who tortures animals?

Is it possible?

...whites and Blacks are treated equally in the media in this country! A progressive site! And the rest of the world wonders how such a racially charged atmosphere could continue to exist. The hypocrisy of America never ceases to amaze me!

me-

but it depresses the hell out of me.

:hi:

...week by 6 (SIX!) depraved white people. They beat, sexually abuse and otherwise debase that young lady for what? The Jena incident has apparently produced copycats. There was another 'noose' incident at Columbia! Perhaps another Black person must be dragged under the truck of a US white person to appease the noose-ers.

As each new egregious incident occurs, those now pointing to the small list of offending whites who were punished with lashes from a wet noodle mouth words of sympathy and concern. Ironically, the next day the sympathy-mouthers assert that Blacks are makin' this stuff up. We're too sensitive! Wet noodle lashes for offending whites; metal-tipped cat-o-nine-tails for Blacks.

If we refuse to admit there's a problem, we cannot address the problem. We have such a long way to go in this country.

But in the world of sports, they are praised endlessly for their successes and devoured after failing no matter what color they are.

Welcome to DU




:hi:

the rest of the world wonders WTF is wrong with this country when people make exaggerations, unfounded observations/opinions, weak arguments to support their theories about racism.

That sort of blind ignorance tends to add fuel to the fire of a "racially charged atmosphere" and fosters suspicion of genuine racially motivated incidents.

...connect the dots on the page to display the pattern of racism until there are more dots than there is page.

of excuses used to justify bad behavior.

Rick Ankiel? Floyd Landis? Oh yeah, those are celebrities of a similar level!

in the media. You gave three examples and many people didn't agree with those examples. That's different than saying there's "no difference".

Since, you know, all of them have committed crimes. A similar level of attention was aimed at Floyd Landis recently, as was Mark McGwire, as was Rafael Palmeiro, as was Chris Benoit, as was Jose Canseco.

When high-profile people commit crimes, people are interested.

for your common sense response.

then they NEED to be held accountable.

Black kids need good role models.

Marion Jones admitted using steroids. Michael Vick is a piece of shit. Barry Bonds probably used steroids. Non one is singling them out because they are black. they are assholes for doing what they did. People hate Bonds because he is an asshole and not a nice guy.

statement



So I guess you do too....hhhmmm What in the world are you thinking. From your post I guess because the media say so thats Good enough for you right!!

the talking point of the media is "what kind of a role model"? which lends itself to the "hero" "idol" label.

In my own opinion, a genuine real hero or role model, isn't often such a high profile person. We are dragged into the lives of some stars by the press who believe we need to be obsessed with the "person of the moment"- (like the 'front-runners')-
The people I consider to be 'hero' material, usually shun the media, and don't like calling attention to themselves un-duly.
but that's me- :shrug:

Enlistments among black youth (read: high school teenagers) have fallen off dramatically. I thought maybe the Army had found a new poster-child they could build an ad campaign around, someone on the order of Pat Tillman or Jessica Lynch...

Instead it's about fallen sports idols. No, I don't think they're being picked on by the media. I think sports has become a really dirty money-driven enterprise. Since I don't follow sports all that closely, the only one I really feel sorry for is Marian Jones and her fans. Keith O (who does follow sports closely and really cares) looked so sad: "Say it ain't so, Joe."

Hekate

That's all I wanna know. LOL

Because of their athletic ability?

...I've ever read on a supposedly left-wing site.

So now, if an athlete commits a crime, the first thing we liberals do is examine the color of their skin? I haven't heard ANYONE in the MSM talk about Marion Jones' doping--and lying about doping--from a racial perspective, and I think it's utterly misguided to do start doing so now. "Oh, but I'm just following the media's agenda"--bullshit. You've clearly got your own agenda, and that's to keep us obsessed with racial divisions, even when they're completely irrelevant to the dialogue. You've just labeled Marion Jones and Barry Bonds as "black heroes"--gee, can't we just call them heroes, period? Why attach their race to the label? (As for Michael Vick--I think many animal lovers on this site would be offended if the man WASN'T tarred and feathered. And we can do so--because he abused animals. Who cares what his race is?)

When a celebrity gets in trouble with the law for being dumb, and no one points out whether they're black, white, latino, asian, or so forth--THAT'S when we'll know we've come a long ways. Right now, on this very thread, people are comparing tallies of white stars in trouble with the law to black stars in trouble with the law, which naturally leads to a discussion of the black-to-white ratio of athletes in general, and so on, and so on, ad naseum, In this case, it's not the media as much as it is YOU, you race-obsessed nutjobs! By looking for and creating patterns where there are none, you're doing as much harm to the reputation of Black athletes as anyone!

In short, grow up! Save your ire for a situation that warrants it!

I thought DU couldnt' get any stupider. Thanks for proving me wrong.

About 6-7 years ago,Muscular Development,the magazine,did a great feature article on her-her diet,supplement routine,workout regimen.I followed that program religiously,wanting so badly to get in "Marion Jones" shape.I came pretty close.At the time,pro-hormones were still legal,and it was understood that a lot of elite athletes used them,and so did a lot of amateurs,like me.I am still so upset that she had to give her medals back.Regardless of what drugs you use,that type of drive and athletic ability comes along once in a lifetime.