It Is A Totalitarian, Fascist State

Who would argue with that? It is what it is.

We now live in a fascist society.

The truth may hurt some, but the truth is.

media controls the message

government controls the message, and creates incredible hurt for many.

government creates an atmosphere of fear. of everything, apparently.

I could go on

in stylish black leather & shiny jack boots beneath banners & standards stolen from antique empires elsewhere; that fascism may in fact be the very board rooms filled with share & stock holders voting for the of profits war or otherwise, and then some? that fascism may in fact be the pleasant, smiling face that gives you your change back at Starbucks? hm, well wha'da you know, go figure...

government has always controlled 'the message', who do you think controls 'the message'? you?

government has always been privy to the import of 'fear', i.e. "All we have to fear...is fear itself!"

what is your point?

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That is corporatiosn controlling the government

BY THAT definition, given by Mussilini himself, yes, yes we are

Are we an Authoritarian closed society? Not yet, but well on our way

And Authoritarian societies do not have to lead to death camps (most don't, even if the two best known of the 20th century had them and boy they racked about 75 million dead in between the two of fhem... they were also ideologically enemies)

Hitler would not himself have been possible without the cooperation of the corporate elite...they were his industrial base let us make no mistake

not all authoritarian models evolve the same way

But if you look HONESTLY at what is going on right now... you will see echoes of that past... and a method being implemented

It will be an AMERICAN closed society, not German, not Italian or Russian... but American

such as it is; as that of a shadowy swastika'd arm banned minion of thugs marching all about the landscape tossing jewish babies off of the 2nd floors of buildings just to get someone to 'talk' i agree...after the passage of Reagan it was thought that bush 41 would bring, and these were the thoughts: 'a kinder, gentler kind of fascism' to america (so that there is no room for surprise so long as you've been paying attention), everyone went, "Ha, ha!" and life went on...

...cept now we are here, but are we as here as they were then? that is the question, and my sense is that we are not

people wail about Gitmo which is an atrocity without doubt, but my father was in the expeditionary force that liberated Bergen-Belsen and he suffered and died with his nightmares to the very end, i therefore find these topics lame at the very best, and foolish, pointless on the face of them

peace to you, however, is what i say, nadin...peace

and I know other survivors.

GITMO is part of a method that authoritarian systems follow

That is the problem with GITMO

Some of the same paterns that existed with the camps, especially early on before they were accepted... (and GITMO is now almost accetped as a new normal) is that they are part of a method that is followed

Prisons like that one metastazise and encourage outside thinking from the law

That is why they are part of a method

If people had been far more vocal in many of these police states early on... they would have been stopped


Hell, Chenney even said this at one point, they are going to press until there is significant fight back...

that is why it is some place else, and i say, "Thank the Goddess!!" for the simple truths that remain

this cabal, this cheney/bush/rove/matalin/nixon's ghost cabal is not able to operate within these united states and they know it...

the death camps that covered Germany & Europe were many, their stench cast all about the landscape, they were there...there is no contest as to what is truly pernicious and what is wantonly so

g.w. bush is wantonly, cravenly so, thats where i believe you & i come in, nadin :)

is becuase they didn't have the legal system completely corrupted

Once they get that done with

You will see it, assuming that things get worst, much worst than they have already, and I have a vivid imagination, I know where we can go

And you already saw shadows of it

Jose Padilla in a navy brig for three years... none of the final charges againt him involved terrorism

Hamdi... well in the end they let him go

I highly recomend you read Naomi Wolf's book... I highly do... and of course I have been told Klein is a must too (next on my list)

As to you and me, absolutely

Here is a thread you may want to read

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2047547

Yep I did five of these here we have a problem. I owed the community a what do we do now?

they as will any nefarious grouping, test for the weakest points in any given armor, still...their time is running out, it may take generations to correct but they have not succeeded imo

there's a couple books i've been meaning to pick up, here's love to'ya girl & thanks :)

of a totalitarian regime.

For starters: 9/11 was like a Reichstag on steroids.

The US isn't as bad as Nazi Germany yet, but we do seem to be well on the way.

He is one of the most coldly and efficiently evil people on the planet.

if we are now in a Police state or Fascist Govt. there aren't going to be anyone/thing getting in... Bush and the crew will be the ever after rulers......

there are actual successors

Just because most don't. don't mean we won't have "elections."

That said my worst nightmare is... they'll fiind a reason to cancel them and finally take away the curtains

any of the other GOP candidates, with the possible exception of Ron Paul.

Giuliani in particular has a very nasty authoritarian streak, which most New Yorkers know about.

Let's face it. Just about all of the people still in the Republican party are fascists. Give them the opportunity to have total power, and they will take it.

Hell, I'm not even sure about some of the Democrats. Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely, and if we allow this fascist slide to continue, the next leader will become a despot no matter what party he or she is from, and no matter how conscientious and decent he or she is before taking the oath of office.

I'm getting sick of these hyperbolic threads, they are insulting to people who live or have lived in a real police state.

and the other day I met a gentleman who lived in one

We can both see the paralels to the method used

live between the lines, my friend
Your inability to see what is happening is insulting.

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I am getting sick of these coup denying threads, they are insulting to people who remember America as a nation of laws.

Back in the good old days of habeas corpus, due process, freedom of speech, freedom from wiretapping, freedom to have your vote counted, freedom from leaders who felt no sense of obligation to those who elected them, back then we were not a totalitarian torture state.

Now we are. A fascist, totalitarian state led by felons, about to have a command economy and a useless, non-convertible currency.

Do you not see where this country is headed?

frequently follows when one faction in a democracy gains power by demonizing the others.

Kulaks, Jews, and since 1980, Liberals, all were deliberately scapegoated by cynical politicians of all political stripes in the Soviet Union, Germany, and now Amerika.

What did they all have in common? They thought they were too important , too essential to their respective societies to destroy. They were wrong.

correct

I highly recommend 'The Origins of Totalitarianism.'

I will recommend you read Naomi Wolf's

In fact I'd also add Arendt's the Banality of Evil

Oh and defiintely Meyer's They Thought they Were Free

I have not yet read Naomi Wolf.

but you will find her work intriguing at the very least

If not out right sounding the same kind of alarm many of have

Because if we really live in totalitarian fascist state, then you can expect that they will be pounding on your door any second now.

Oh wait, no one is pounding on your door?

I guess you are just an alarmist, and as another poster pointed out, someone with a flare for hyperbole.

Russian, Pole, Austrian, Argenitian, Chilean, Guatemalan, Salvadoran... and the list goes on

That ever spoke out agaist the state was picked up?

WRONG

Target key individuals

Now if he\she makes eniough noise and starts leading your local peace movement, then you have a point

Why not shut down places like DU, Kos, MoveOn?

China doesn't seem to have a problem shutting down or blocking websites that contradict the beliefs of its government. Why doesn't our totalitarian government follow their lead?

is by leaving the illusion that dissent is possible and that it does some good.

bingo

On a side note, you play 40K

to something said in the 40K literature?

the name is a give away.

;-)

We play from time to time over here

hell, the Ork war machine is in pieces parts drying before my hubby finishes it

the name is from norse mythology but is used alot.

and there are two factions in that univrse that use it.

I know the mythology and they did a good job of adapting it

Bush is leaving on January 20, 2009 and a Democrat will most likely succeed him through a peaceful and orderly transfer of power.

This nascent "totalitarianism" already seems to be in its twilight.

two parties working towards the same

in Bush's goal for a totalitarian dictatorship in America?

Hell, not only complicit, but a bona fide partner in the whole operation.

Stuff like this makes for great fiction, you should consider a career in writing.

who benefits?

That is also an apropriate question in the rise of a totalitarian state

but they still pass the bills and never call george on his illegal activies or stop the obviously harmfull legislation. I would say all of congress is complicent in our administrations activities.

the business party.

(And if the goal is totalitarian control by a corporate oligarchy, both parties have to be in it.)

Explain Nancy Pelosi's behavior...

you want to see how totalitarian the world has become?

google the phrase 'police shoot protester' for Results 1 - 10 of about 3,430,000...

worst case scenario they will, when the time comes

Why am I saying they don't need to?

Folks are now refusing to sign petitions, out of fear of ending on a list

That is a sign we crossed a marker

And once you arrest and prosecute a key individual the self censoring will happen at an even faster clip

They don't need to crush you and me, to get compliance... fear that is all they need and that is already starting to creep up

has evolved, but it is still fascism...

doesn't mean something may happen tomorrow.

One has to be ignorant and blind not to see what is happening in this country. The entire world sees it.

very close to that state... I said in an earlier post that we are one boom away from having a military Govt. and I seriously believe that.

Think back to a statement that Bush made some years ago about... "If this were a Dictatorship it would be much easier, so long as I were the Dictator" I'm Paraphrasing but it went something like that....

Not far from it my friends...

"Stupid like a fox" One might say....

I have the quote in my other computer

stupid individual, and to most of us he is... But... Who is leading him and to what gain?

I don't think you need to convince me

Trust me, I am on your side

The last 76 hours have been... interesing round these parts

Why? There are many who really have not opened their eyes

Here is an old joke from Stalin's Russia

Stalin decided to go to a school where a kid had a litter of puppies, becuase all the puppies were communist

Stalin was impresed

So he gets to the school and goes into the classroom

Ivan you said that all ten of your puppies are communists

Yes Mr Chairman

How many are communist

Six Sir

How come, but last week you said ten of them?

Yes Sir, but since last week four have opened their eyes

Hitler one day went on an official tour of a psychiatric hospital.

The hospital spent weeks preparing for his visit, cleaning up, coaching the patients in proper behavior, getting the ones that couldn't behave out of sight, putting up decorations, etc.

When Hitler arrived, he was pleased to see all the patients lined up, with their hands raised in the Nazi salute.

Except for one person on the end of the row, who was not saluting. Hitler went up to him and asked him "Why aren't you saluting me?"

"Oh, I'm not a patient, I'm the nurse. I'm not crazy."

In many ways, the Third Reich was actually more free than the US is today, as the ReichsSicherheitshauptamt didn't have at it's disposal the advanced technology available to Bush. The Third Reich had to rely on children turning in their parents by word of mouth or written incriminating scribblings on paper. America under Bush need only trace your IP.
As a further example, everyday citizens in Germany publicly protested the policy and practice of the regime executing mental patients through the T4 program, and Hitler was forced to abandon it in 1941.
The opinion of common citizens in contemporary America will never reach those who rule over us.

very interesting

I'm sick and tired of the hysterical hyperbole and lazy comparisons. If it's as bad as you say, either suggest a plan of action or spare us the whiny bleating.

You and the rest of the foamers who are absolutely convinced the US has descended to the equivalent of Nazi Germany, the Soviet Union, Cambodia and North Korea combined. What the fuck are you doing, besides posting ill-conceived, poorly researched, anecdotal tripe and unsupported bald-faced assertions on a public internet message board?

You, the true believers, the clear-visioned, you must have a plan, right? What is it?

C'mon, don't keep us waiting. Our lives and freedom (apparently) depend on you having a plan and acting on it.

What do you intend to DO?

you may want to look for that...

Oh here you go

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2047547

:hi:

:hi:

I've got US Marshalls breaking my door down and spraying the living room with machine gun fire, just like these guys said was going to happen.

How's it going with you?

watching a dvr'd Colbert on King (geez that guy bugs me that King guy x() :hug:

edited for the: bugs x(

I could not figure out 'bigs' as a verb :crazy:

I saw a few minutes of that too - Colbert is one funny guy.

I wouldn't usually link to a wikipedia article, but this one's actually quite good.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism

According to a Marxist definition of fascism, yes. According to Mussolini's definition of Fascism, not exactly. FDR, yes. Roger Griffin, no. And so on, and so on, and so on. Without actually defining fascism, it's impossible to either argue or to disagree with the statement that the US is a fascist state.

As for the claim that this is a totalitarian state, that too requires definitions. The definition of totalitarianism is clearer than the definition of fascism. In a totalitarian system, there is single party rule. The claim that the United States is a totalitarian state implies a second claim that the apparent two party system in the United States is actually a single party system. Some do make this claim, often Marxists, but also others from underrepresented political groups.

I wouldn't think that an argument equating the Democratic and Republican parties would be all that popular here on Democratic Underground, but hey. Go for it. It's a free country ;-)

my neighbor was taken from his house in the middle of the night for posting about how the Bush regime was planning to end elections and install Dick Cheney as a permanent President. His wife told me that the secret police mumbled something about 'shutting him up for good' just before they put the hood over his head and dragged him out to an unmarked black Hummer.

Now I only post from a public computer under assumed names and in disguise.

Frankly, I'm surprised Skinner or EarlG are even alive anymore. Hmmmm...maybe they aren't! Maybe they have been replaced by undercover shadow government agents.

Time to log off and lay low for a few days.