Horrible Theocracy Email I got from my relatives and my response...

I was forwarded this Email recently by my relatives:

DID YOU KNOW? As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S Supreme Court you can see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view...it is Moses and he is holding the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW? As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

DID YOU KNOW? As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

DID YOU KNOW? There are Bible verses etched in stone all over the Federal Buildings and Monuments in Washington , D.C.

DID YOU KNOW? James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

DID YOU KNOW? Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: "It cannot be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

DID YOU KNOW? The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select and prefer Christians as their rulers."

How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in this country is now suddenly wrong and unconstitutional?

Lets put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great country was built on.

I was asked to send this on if I agreed or delete if I didn't. Now it is your turn...

It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Therefore, it is very hard to understand why there is such a mess about having the Ten Commandments on display or "In God We Trust" on our money and having God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Why don't we just tell the other 14% to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

If you agree, pass this on...


My Response:

A few comments on the email I’m either supposed to “agree with or delete”...

The “Ten Commandments” section:
1. As you walk up the steps to the building which houses the U.S Supreme Court you can
see near the top of the building a row of the world's law givers and each one is facing
one in the middle who is facing forward with a full frontal view…it is Moses and he is
holding the Ten Commandments!

2. As you enter the Supreme Court courtroom, the two huge oak doors have the Ten
Commandments engraved on each lower portion of each door.

3. As you sit inside the courtroom, you can see the wall, right above where the Supreme
Court judges sit, a display of the Ten Commandments!

I did know about some of these things, but the others do not surprise me. DID YOU KNOW
that the Supreme Court upheld the display of religious laws in public buildings *as long
as they are part of a greater display of laws and lawmaking which is inclusive and
generalized*. The flap about the Ten Commandments a few years ago was largely because the
Ten Commandments were the only laws displayed in those cases. DID YOU KNOW that the
display of one and only one set of religious laws is a tacit endorsement of those laws and
directly controverts the Constitution? I bet the 100% Christian Supreme Court does!

The Opinions of Famous Patriots:
1. James Madison, the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our
Constitution" made the following statement: "We have staked the whole of all
our political institutions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the
capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain
ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God."

He also said: “I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has
done, in showing that Religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less
they are mixed together.”

2. Patrick Henry, that patriot and Founding Father of our country said: "It cannot
be emphasized too strongly or too often that this great nation was founded not by
religionists but by Christians, not on religions but on the Gospel of Jesus Christ".

He also said: “Perfect freedom is as necessary to the health and vigor of commerce as it
is to the health and vigor of citizenship.”

3. The very first Supreme Court Justice, John Jay, said: "Americans should select
and prefer Christians as their rulers."

He also said: “I wish to see all unjust and unnecessary discriminations everywhere
abolished, and that the time may come when all our inhabitants of every color and
discrimination shall be free and equal partakers of our political liberties.”

DID YOU KNOW that the Founding Fathers and other Patriots were complex, multifaceted
individuals who were just as capable of forming their own opinions as anyone else? DID
YOU KNOW that whatever their personal beliefs, they recognized the wisdom of keeping an
official religion out of Government? DID YOU KNOW that this country was founded by people
escaping religious persecution by a state-sponsored church? I'd bet these early American
Patriots never forgot that.

Opening Prayer:
1. Every session of Congress begins with a prayer by a paid preacher, whose salary has
been paid by the taxpayer since 1777.

DID YOU KNOW that there are a wide variety of clerics from the many faiths that exist in
our great nation who give this opening prayer? It’s been given by a Hindu Priest and a
Catholic Nun, among others.

Majority Vs. Minority:
1. It is said that 86% of Americans believe in God. Why don't we just tell the other 14%
to Sit Down and SHUT UP!!!

Because we are better than that as a people, as a country, and as Christians. DID YOU
KNOW that we’re all in the minority somehow? DID YOU KNOW that the Founding Fathers
specifically wrote the Constitution to protect the minority from the tyranny of the
majority? DID YOU KNOW that’s why there are two Senators from each State regardless of
size, for example?

AND FINALLY:
1. How, then, have we gotten to the point that everything we have done for 220 years in
this country is now suddenly wrong?

How indeed? Good Question.

2. Let’s put it around the world and let the world see and remember what this great
country was built on.

Lets!



Why did I waste an hour of my life responding to this? Because too many people have been
too quiet in the face of this kind of argument for too long. This kind of idiocy is not
Christianity. We should all call it what it really is: Wishing for Theocracy. Let's ask
the Iranian people how they like theirs before we "AGREE OR DELETE".

My relatives know better than to send me this shit.

You you mind if I use it when it hits my inbox? I'm sure I'll be getting this one of these days.

Mz Pip
:dem:

Enjoy it.

The whole point of responding to this things was to get the word out.

On the first one, I should add: I believe, in addition to the 10 Commandments, the SCotUS building has other great examples showing - like the Code of Hammurabi, the Magna Carta, etc.

And, thanks for responding.

89% Christian.

I should have gone with 100% Judeo-Christian.

DID YOU KNOW that the Pledge of Allegiance was written by a BAPTIST MINISTER in 1892, and it DID NOT have the phrase "under God" in it! That was added in 1954.

wearing a t-shirt that said, "One Nation Under God since 1776." sheeesh!

one of our missions.

Maybe they just deleted it.

My Dad emailed me right away though and complemented me; I felt like I was 12 years old again in a good way...

Well written and researched!

if someone started to send these chain emails around the net about republicans. They would call democrats all kinds of names. But no-brainiacs like malkin and drudge must sit for hours making some of the stuff up.

or the apparently never-ending list of Republican sex scandals....

Funny how the same people who were aghast at Clinton's BJ seem so quiet now, unless they say something like "well, both sides do it" and brush it off, despite the many differences.

brush it off or say both sides do it. I recently got into a very short email exchange with somebody who sent me the ancient Lewinski limerick. I mailed them back and asked why they were sending around stuff from a 10-year-old BJ when they had such rich pickings from the current Repub sex scandals.

They emailed back that Clinton had sullied the office with the BJ, whereas the current Repubs were unproved and not related to governing the country.

I emailed back the "Long List of Repub Sexual Indiscretions" which includes http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/2/125630/900
and some threads from DU.

He emailed back and said he didn't want to continue the dialog.

they didn't get any...

because every single motherfucking representation of something even marginally related (or able to be interpreted to relate) to their religion is used as evidence for why we should have more religion in government. let them have a pledge of allegience, and they will try to put god in it. once they shoehorn god into it, they will use it to shoehorn their god into something else. repeat ad nauseum

of course, it doesn't really matter all that much anyway. where they can't find actual religious references, they just fucking invent them, and away we go.

matter, why pour sand in the vaseline?

Is it worth driving a wedge in the family to do this? You may not like them, but I am willing to hazard a guess that there are family members who you get along with who also get along with the originators of this email to you.

Politics can be important, but it should never cause a family rift: policies, opinions and outlooks change but family is there for the long term.

Ignore the email, throw it in the trash, delete your response and remember: you can pick your nose but not your family.

and they love me, but I don't see why I need to stay silent, especially when they are forwarding crap like this. I don't feel I was disrespectful or hurtful in my comments.

I assure you that we can disagree about the role of Religion in American political life without disintegrating as a family.

This sort of person is not swayed by facts, evidence, or logical arguments, so using these techniques is an absolute waste of time. Actually, it's worse - they will turn your words against you in a twisted way and use them as the basis for another sick e-mail!

Again, nothing you say, write, or do will have even the tiniest effect on these crazy, false opinions, other than possibly strengthening them. Those of us with non-authoritarian brains must get it into those brains that these people do not ever respond to anything related to "thinking". They relate only to "feeling", with their primary "feelings" being hate, fear, greed, and a lust for power and control.

By the way, a family that forwards "crap" to each other may already be disintegrating.

this bothers you, so why even read, much less respond to it?

my junk filter rejects them. Lot easier than trying to debate christo-facists that will never see another point of view anyway.

My family are not fascists, they (in my opinion) simply didn't understand the actual underlying message of the original post. That's why I tried to explain it to them.

but that is clearly a email that was designed and disseminated from christo-fascist origins. Too bad people do not realize that when they forward it.

Have some more ammo, I posted the below a couple of years ago...

We can expect a rasher of the talibornagain gnashing of teeth and wailing over their perceived persecution. Bring on the Lions!

In light of that, I thought it appropriate to provide a review of Church-State history in the U.S. As it happens, I have a file full of snippets of events that seem sorta relevant.

This is stuff I've gathered from all over.

The continental dollar of the Revolutionary War, was designed by Benjamin Franklin in 1776:The mottos on this coin are "Mind Your Business" and "We Are One."

The Tripoli Treaty of 1797 - States unequivocally the US is not a
Christian Nation:
ARTICLE 11.

As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense
founded on the Christian Religion,-as it has in itself no character of
enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen,-and as
the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility
against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no
pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an
interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.
---
This document was endorsed by Secretary of State Timothy Pickering and
President John Adams. It was then sent to the Senate for ratification;
the vote was unanimous. It is worth pointing out that although this
was the 339th time a recorded vote had been required by the Senate, it
was only the third unanimous vote in the Senate's history. There is no
record of debate or dissent. The text of the treaty was printed in
full in the Philadelphia Gazette and in two New York papers, but there
were no screams of outrage, as one might expect today."

THE WHOLE ARTICLE: http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050221/allen

This is confirmed by at least 2 of the Founders. Now remember this one later:

Is the appointment of Chaplains to the two Houses of Congress
consistent with the Constitution, and with the pure principle of
religious freedom? In strictness the answer on both points must be in
the negative. The Constitution of the U. S. forbids everything like an
establishment of a national religion. The law appointing Chaplains
establishes a religious worship for the national representatives, to
be performed by Ministers of religion, elected by a majority of them,
and these are to be paid out of the national taxes. Does this not
involve the principle of a national establishment, applicable to a
provision for a religious worship for the Constituent as well as of
the representative Body, approved by the majority, and conducted by
Ministers of religion paid by the entire nation? -- Madison In "Essay on Monopolies,"

Moving right along now... to Jefferson:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between man & his god, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, and not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, thus building a wall of separation between church and state. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. - Thomas Jefferson 1/1/1802

In 1837 Congress passed an Act that specified which mottos and phrases
were allowed to be printed on currency; this included the national
motto, "E Pluribus Unum" (From Many One). The motto was not
required however.

And then the shit storm starts:

* In 1860, during the Civil War, Protestant denominations organize the 'National Reform Association', which aimed to amend the Constitution to "declare the nation's allegiance to Jesus Christ."

* In 1861, Rev. M. R. Watkinson writes Salmon P. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury, a letter suggesting "the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins". He suggests "God, Liberty, Law" as a motto on a "beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object".

* In 1864, Congress approves "In God We Trust" for use on one-cent and two-cent coins.

* In 1865, Congress acts to place the motto on all coins.

In 1865, with the conclusion of the Civil War, a new Act was passed by Congress to allow the addition of the phrase "In God We Trust" to currency. "In God We Trust" was still not the national motto at this point and was not used on all money. It was simply allowed to be used on coins, and was used mostly on small denomination coins along with the national motto, "E Pluribus Unum."

Round one: Talibornagain.

The Pledge of Allegiance was written in 1892 it read:

I pledge allegiance to my Flag and the Republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.

I like that, simple and to the point.

When the Federal Reserve was created in 1913 "In God We Trust" remained absent from paper currency.

In the 1950s Congress changed the national motto from "E Pluribus
Unum" to "In God We Trust" (which is how “In God We Trust”
became required to be printed of federal money), "So help me God" was
added to federal oaths (despite the fact that the Christian Bible
clearly states not to swear by God or any other person, place, or
thing when taking an oath. Matthew 5:33-37, James 5:12), and "under
God" was added to the Pledge of Allegiance.

This was also about the time the Presidential Prayer Breakfast started.

* In 1957, the motto is first used on paper money.

* On July 30, 1956, a bill is passed by congress and signed by the president declaring "In God We Trust" the national motto of the United States.

Round two: Talibornagain.

John F. Kennedy September 12, 1960, address to the Greater Houston Ministerial Association:

I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute--where no Catholic prelate would tell the President (should he be Catholic) how to act, and no Protestant minister would tell his parishioners for whom to vote--where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference--and where no man is denied public office merely because his religion differs from the President who might appoint him or the people who might elect him.

Clearly, some people still 'get it.'

* In 1970, The constitutionality of the motto is challenged (Aronow v. United States). The Circuit court determined it "has nothing whatsoever to do with the establishment of religion".

* In 1979, Madalyn Murray O'Hair of American Atheists challenges the motto (O'Hair v. Blumenthal). The circuit court ruled "the slogan was secular".

* In 1994, The Freedom From Religion Foundation challenged the motto citing it's survey that showed a majority of Americans consider the motto religious. lawsuit was dismissed by the district Court without trial

On September 4, 2002 Michael Newdow was a guest on the popular FOX program Hannity & Colmes. On this program Mr. Newdow stated that he felt that Congressional Chaplains violated the Separation of Church and State. Sean Hannity responded by saying:

"Who hired the first chaplain for congress? ...James Madison in 1789. Did you know that?"

You want to refer to some liberal activist judge..., that's fine, but I'm going to go directly to the source. The author of the Bill of Rights hired the first chaplain in 1789, and I gotta' tell ya' somethin', I think the author of the Bill of Rights knows more about the original intent--no offense to you and your liberal atheist activism--knows more about it than you do."

Which would bring us back to the second paragraph, where Madison
Himself admits the Chaplin is a violation of Church-State separation. BWAAHAAAHAHAAAA Go bark at the moon you friggin Codger!

But, sadly it's come to this:

The Constitution Restoration Act of 2004, introduced into both houses
of Congress on February 11, 2004, "includes the acknowledgment of God
as the sovereign source of law by an official in his capacity of
executing his office."

And with this quote from CNN on March 24, 2004:

Justice Sandra Day O'Connor said there "are so many references to God" in public affairs, noting "In God We Trust" was on U-S currency and coins. She added the Supreme Court opens all its public sessions with the words, "God save the United States and this honorable Court.”

We can expect no help from the Courts with a problem so clearly subversive of the Constitution.

Sad, isn't it? I mean how well versed our public speakers are on the issue? I mean it's like calling a Wiccan a Satanist.

No wonder the talibornagain echo chamber is so freakin loud!

Folks, if you haven't figured it out, we're in round three and I'm tired of loosing.