DU's Constitutional Neighborhood

"Thus far, however, in the case of the vastly broader and more devastating Iraq war fraud orchestrated by the CEO of the United States and his management team, the system has failed. And we are all victims of this fraud. George W. Bush exploited the vulnerability of an entire populace reeling from the September 11, 2001, attacks to manipulate them into supporting a war based on false pretenses. If the financial cost of the President’s fraud is astronomical -- $340 billion in direct war costs alone as of August 2006 – the human cost is incalculable, and far more profound: over 2,500 American soldiers killed and 19,000 wounded; possibly more than 50,000 Iraqis killed; untold numbers of grieving Iraqi and American family members; hundreds of thousands of Iraqis homeless; and a million soldiers who have been sent to this war and will never be the same. …

"For over a year now, polls have shown that the majority of Americans believe President Bush deliberately misrepresented prewar intelligence. Executive branch officials who deliberately mislead Congress and the public intending to influence congressional action have committed a federal crime. That means that roughly 100 million Americans believe Bush has committed a crime, yet most, like Kitty Genovese’s neighbors, are just passive bystanders – although not, I believe, due to indifference.

"Indeed, many of us are just watching it happen because we feel powerless to stop it. Hundreds of thousands of people have, in effect, called 911, but not even Democrats in Congress have been willing to answer the phone. It is not that they don’t have enough information; it is, our Democratic representatives say, because it is not good political strategy.

"The proposition that it is not good political strategy to insist that government officials obey the law is highly debatable. More important, strategizing in the face of an ongoing crime is wrong. Ask any legislator whether he would strategize about possible political fallout before intervening to stop a crime that was occurring in front of his eyes and the response would be, ‘Of course not.’ But that is exactly what’s happening right now.

"So, consider this my 911 call. I’m calling on Democrats and Republicans to do the right thing. And I’m calling on everyone else to do whatever you can to convince Congress to do the right thing. I am not talking about bringing people to justice in the vengeful sense that President Bush employs. I am talking about effecting justice. I am talking, finally, about holding our highest government officials accountable for a complex and calculated program of false pretense, misleading statements, and material omissions – a criminal betrayal of trust that is strikingly similar to, yet far worse, than the fraud committed by Enron’s top officials."
-- Elizabeth de la Vega; United States v George W. Bush et al.; 2006; pages 17-19





I would like to thank all of the progressive democrats who are taking a stand, and advocating for the impeachment of President Bush and/or VP Dick Cheney, for the crimes outlined in former federal prosecutor Elizabeth de la Vega's book. In my opinion, you are the voice of conscience, compared to the silence of Kitty Genovese's neighbors. I appreciate that very much.

Government and Enron. There has been a "criminal betrayal of trust strikingly similar to, yet far worse, than the fraud committed by Enron's top officials."

Very keen comparison.

I agree Americans should do the right thing and hold Government officials accountable...impeach them now! Impeach, indict, imprison!

spent many years serving as one of our nation's top prosecutors of organized crime. When she asks, "What if there was a fraud worse than Enron, and no one did anything about it?", I think people should listen. Although this thread is simply my taking a minute to thank the good DUers who take a stand for the rule of law, and who honor the Constitution, I do think those who are unsure of if we should impeach Bush and Cheney would read her and John Nichols' books.

I haven't yet read her book but I think I will check it out. Given her background, I think that you are right, when she says it may be a crime worse than Enron...Wow; and, of course, it is.

I am on my way to work now but I will check back later. Have a great day and thanks again for posting this.

her to run for her seat do you think?

Risk assessment, bean counters, impeachment aversion therapy

find "family systems" kind of interesting to work with. One of the things that I noticed was that it was fairly common for people who were part of a unhealthy family system to take a "No!" approach to life. They had been convinced, maybe by an angry, cruel father, that they were helpless, and couldn't do anything to change their miserable conditions. If someone suggested a change, they would always say, "No!" and then explain why even trying would only make things worse .... might make Ole' Dad angry, don't you know!

That's why I posted this thread: I really like the DUers who take the "Yes!" approach to life. They believe in the Power of Ideas -- and that is, of course, exactly what the Founding Fathers expressed in the Constitution, including that Bill of Rights.

Sometimes it can be frustrating to talk to those who have had their thinking infected with "No!" They really believe things that we know aren't true. One example that has been coming up on DU in the past 48 hours is the idea that the process of impeachment would not help to stop the Bush insanity in Iraq. While it is not congress's only option, the speculation that it wouldn't help is without any foundation. There is one historic example that provides a basis for coming to a rational conclusion, that of Richard Nixon. Those who cling to "No!" are, of course, unlikely to take the time to read the Nixon White House transcripts, or study that period of history. But for those who have, there is no question that when the impeachment process began, Father Nixon began to take a more open approach to discussing ending the war with the democrats in congress.

representatives put personal political well-being before the Constitution. Few in Congress "get it". Which leads to my question: What do we do? Personally, I have done what I think may help. I have written and phoned Congressmen insisting that impeachment takes place. IF I get a reply, it is of the nature that the votes for impeachment aren't there, it will take too much time or will do irreparable harm to the country's cohesiveness...whatever. Again, what do we do?

I agree completely with Elizabeth de la Vega's point as do many, many citizens. Agreeing with the choir isn't getting the job done. What do we do? K&R

I think that many good progressive and liberal democrats are frustrated by the lack of response in congress .... on both the impeachment and Iraqi war of occupation issues. And this thread is agreeing with the choir -- I'm just taking an opportunity to thank DUers, because last night, I felt a level of energy that convinced me that this group of people can play an important role in what John Nichols and Elizabeth de la Vega call the organic grass roots process that results in impeachment.

In my opinion, there is benefit in not only having some "open" threads where DUers with different beliefs debate the wisdom of impeachment, but to also move beyond that, and to have some threads which are focused entirely on harnessing the energy of the pro-impeachment DUers. I recognize that the anti-impeachment folks are just as entitled to their opinion, but I want to have some threads which are for the benefit of those who are either pro-impeachment, or who are not sure, but have an open mind.

What do we do? That is a good question. I think that we need to identify our options. There is the Hinchey-Feingold resolution; letters, e-mails, and phone calls to congress; letters-to-the-editor; and petiions to local government, requesting that various boards and legislatures pass resolutions in favor of impeachment.

The second part of your question might be: how much time and energy are people willing and able to invest in this effort?

the time it takes to promote it.

I will never forget Bill Moyer's Journal episode with John Nichols and Bruce Fein pointing out that the Constitution urgently calls for impeachment under our present circumstances, in particular, to protect us against an ever growing unitary executive. Consequently, if we have the will and the calling we must get the word out to those citizens who haven't heard the message. I think we should point out that the power this executive branch has acquired through over reaching must be reigned in to protect us against future presidencies who would never return this power and would further negate the powers of the legislative branch which in my opinion is effectively at a standstill because of executive power via signing statements, executive orders, presidential directives and vetoes. There certainly is more at stake than the simple impeaching of a president and vice-president.

I thank you for taking the time to thank and thus encourage the pro-impeachment members of DU! I am tired of arguing because it zaps our positive energy focusing on impeachment.


www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07132007/transcript1.html

NOT as the "representatives of the people" that they are actually elected to be.

As Nancy Pelosi herself most arrogantly said:

"We have to make responsible decisions in the Congress that are not driven by the dissatisfaction of anybody who wants the war to end tomorrow," Pelosi told the gathering at the Sofitel, arranged by the Christian Science Monitor. Though crediting activists for their "passion," Pelosi called it "a waste of time" for them to target Democrats. "They are advocates," she said. "We are leaders."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/10/09/AR2007100902006_pf.html


:grr:

in this Congress is less concerned with the crimes and abuses than proponents?

That's laughably arrogant if that your contention. Many folks who don't accept that an impeachment in this Congress *will work have just as strong 'voices of conscience' as proponents and are just as active in working to hold the administration accountable.

What sense does it make to try and divide Americans into camps based on strategy rather than intent? It's not as if you have any historical basis to argue that your proposition is infallible, although you clearly are convinced that your course is superior to all others.

You talk of a process which will have, as the ultimate judges, politicians as if they would somehow be transformed into paragons of justice and weigh evidence with the impartiality of a normal criminal prosecution. But it is in the very disregard of the politics behind the pursuit of an inherently political process which has contributed to the failure of all of the bashing and insulting of those in disagreement to convince enough legislators and Americans to join in an impeachment effort.

You or any of the proponents of impeachment in this Congress have a perfect right to believe that you're somehow more virtuous than those who think your plan will fail and refuse to support it. But, in my view, you are clearly not. I take a backseat to very few in my opposition and efforts to hold this administration accountable for their crimes and abuses. I don't believe an impeachment of the Executive in this Congress will be prudent or effective. And, I'll hold my head up high, thank you, satisfied that I've, at least, allowed proponents their view without regarding them as less virtuous than myself.

the Constitution. I was taking the opportunity to politely thank those DUers who share my values on this issue. I would suggest that "laughably arrogant" is a better discription of those who feel the compulsion to disrupt this thread.

You provided the statement by Elizabeth de la Vega and appear to be representing it as your own view. I took exception with the notions in her statement. I apologize if you weren't prepared to defend them along with your promotion of them.

I have no interest in "defending" them to you or to anyone else on this thread. It was clearly noted as a thread to thank those who are the pro-impeachment progressive democrats, who value the entire Constitution. I do not care if you disagree with her or with me, but wish that you would be polite enough to do so on another thread.

It's all about you.


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


Seems some folks are finding shoes that fit. And then complaining to the shoemakers.

:toast: Cheers, Tahiti.

,...of conduct (certainly no less than any common citizen is expected to conduct him/herself).

Second, the politics of compromise was not intended to include either the sacrifice of our rights and liberties or the balance of powers as set forth in the COTUS.

Third, when an executive intentionally intrudes on BOTH our rights/liberties and the balance of power, what most appropriate course exists? If, in your opinion, impeachment in inappropriate, what other course is better and why?

Fourth, when a person INVITES you to join them and you attack them as "arrogant", what does that make YOU?

Pfft. Respectfully.

- Benjamin Franklin

In many senses, it is true. In the case of advocating for impeachment, the entire country will benefit from having a grass roots impeachment team. That should include the pro-impeachment folks on DU. It's good to hang out and debate our anti-impeachment friends on DU, but we do better to invest more of our energies taking positive actions.

Silence is betrayal. I can not in good conscience sit idly by as Bush and Cheney consistently show contempt for the American people they`re supposed to represent and the Constitution they are supposed to uphold. There are no reasonable excuses left for me to entertain.

For sending Americans to their deaths on a lie....for turning the Justice Department into an official arm of the Republican Party....for lying to Congress....for secret torture prisons....for spying on Americans without warrants....for the inexcusable neglect of drowning New Orleanians.... Bush and Cheney must be impeached. On pure principle.

"A conspiracy of silence speaks louder than words." -- John Ono Lennon

:toast:

is courage of members of Congress and a true love for our country, instead of loyalty to administration benefactors." -- Ann Wright, retired US Army Reserve Colonel (19 years) and US diplomat who resigned in March 2003 in opposition to the war in Iraq.

:thumbsup:

Would a legislator (or practically anyone, for that matter) just stand by as h/s/we WATCHED not merely one but a whole series of crimes being committed? Would h/s/w continue to say and do nothing after the crimes took place?

It's not just a matter of dissonance. It is insane.

of crimes and abuses of power. And they pose a serious threat to our Constitutional democracy.

We need to step up our calls for congress to take action.

Thanks for posting those excerpts.

Man, thank you for reminding me. I just cannot believe how much I forget. I don't have the mind for this stuff. And that's why you are so valuable. Some people have the ability to remember names, others numbers.

I just know that somewhere I saw an interview with her, and she was brilliant. Absolutely tearing the administration to pieces. And if I recall, she was not a liberal. But I probably got that wrong.

There's no media. We are all screaming in a vacuum. We're trying to gain traction on ice. But... There's always a but. Every time I say something I realize that regardless of how optimistic I can get, the reality is that people are suffering somewhere. Over there. It's always over there. So no one but the vigilant and caring over here, care.

I think there is a silent majority of people who care. They work. They're busy. They care but don't speak up. But they're there. There is hope. Every time I say that I feel like deleting it. We're engaged in a battle of good versus evil. And illusion.

It's raining. My head is foggy. I'm getting ready to make an offer on a beautiful piece of land. So this is probably more rambling than anything else. :)

when some land talks to you.

That's a nice shot. Just being with the cows. And colors.

Wish me luck. I've been looking a long time. I'm not like everyone else. I must have serenity, or I go nuts.

It has redwood trees. I just stopped to sit and watch some shiny blue beetles walking through the leaves. A couple of deer. There's a state forest adjacent. It has compromises. It's on a road. But it's close to civilization. However it IS a king's ransom. And no house. I just want beauty and silence.

I won't stop until I find dignity. Many people don't understand. Herb Caine, the columnist who coined the phrase "Baghdad by the Bay", was happy in a condominium in San Francisco. But we need dirt and air and space.

It's a big deal. I just hope the owner has a heart and let's it go for my asking bid. There isn't much dirt for sale any more. Not in the progressive areas. That was sort of my goal. There, I've kept this post to a semi-political tint.

Daniel Boone had periods in life where he would move if he could see smoke rising anywhere on the horizen around him. He didn't like neighbors being too close. I can relate to that.

I hope that this deal works for you. Good luck!

You might not believe this, but...

The last property I owned had a graveyard. What a place it was. Elk. Salmon. And in that graveyard were stones with Daniel Boone's relatives. After an old woman came by to show me some history on the place, I did some reading on Daniel Boone. I've already forgotten it, but I remember the sentiment. And it was that I hold his ideals. That he loved beauty. That old woman was a Boone relation. I've been lucky. Even though I've gone from place to place like a real estate nomad, in retrospect had I not done so I would have missed the array of place I've experienced.

Anyways... :)

the most direct course of action would be a march. If everyone in the country who felt similar could take one day from their busy schedule and stand on the steps to demand justice it may have a rapid effect. I wonder also what would happen if an impeachment took place. I do not want to sound extreme but would they start singling people out for "war crimes" for lack of a better term?

the phone today with a friend who has a direct line to the Senate. In the next 24 hours, I think I'll have something that shows where VP Cheney is most vulnerable to impeachment.

And, methinks, we will one day be able to say, without any opposition:

We Told You So!

Yes, I think that will happen soon.

Impeach

1. Dick Cheney
2. George Bush

Responding in the constitutionally prescribed manner to a series of crimes.

The Constitution: use it or lose it.


Thanks for all you do, H2O Man.

Pleasure to be on the same team with you.

...comes complete with wonderful neighbors. :toast:


Many thanks to you, H2O Man, for all of you contributions to make it a better place to live. :)

I appreciate your support.

to represent us forget it!

Otherwise, this country will become what the globalists in D.C. want:

A North American Union-which will no longer be the United States, but a new country-and a very crowded one at that-which I say in response to Gregorian's post upthread.

I really hope & pray that it is not too late...

Yes, as do I.


IT IS TRIBUNAL TIME IN THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA -- It is for us ... "We the People" ... to bring these neoconster criminals to justice.

Bushler&Co is nothing short of a criminal enterprise, a mafioso cabal.

my dashboard photo, for driving forward on into the madness.

Gas in my tank, music, people I can count on: I think we're getting a handle on the darkness.

literally

many of us seem to have spent lots of time in the surreality-based community.

:thumbsup:

This is the kind of music I play (guitar and percussion). When I play, I forget all the world's problems, especially my own. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJHk1AYGIpc&feature=PlayList&p=76A324A41A22DBD4&index=15

I don't think I've ever seen a seven-string classical guitar before, and I've seen a lot of guitars.

Up front & center is where the topic belongs, & very frequently. I was so energized by last night's discussion that I was compelled to write to my congresspeople. It's a given that my state senators don't share the same opinion, but I need to feel that I'm doing something concrete about it.

:kick:

it's difficult for me to shut up, sometimes. (grin)

I agree that lying about the Iraq War is the worst of the many impeachable offenses that Bush and Cheney have committed, and it ought to be pursued.

Unfortunately though it is politically much more difficult than some of his other offenses. Even Nixon did not have articles of impeachment drawn up against him for lying about the extension of war into Cambodia, even though that is clearly what he did. The House Judiciary chose less inflammatory means to impeach him on.

Either way, there are plenty of impeachable offenses for our Congress to choose from them, and it is very disappointing that they apparently.... I mean obviously have no intention of doing so. I would never vote for a Congressperson in a primary who failed to act on this matter if running against someone who advocated impeachment.

:thumbsup: