Chiling: My 80 y.o. Dad Arrested-We are Safer Now

by Lillygirl
Thu Oct 25, 2007 at 10:04:37 PM PDT
Breathe easy, we are a bit safer now. Late last Friday afternoon, my almost 81 year old dad was arrested and hand-cuffed at JFK airport, frog-marched through the terminal, put in a patrol car and jailed, and you can't say that this wasn't another body blow to the terrorists. Please follow me for the details. Then perhaps we could all let out a primal scream...

Lillygirl's diary :: ::
Last Friday, my father (81 in December, can still play me in tennis, life-long liberal democrat, sharp as a ...) was in the process of going through security at JFK. He had made a quick overnight trip to N.Y. from Florida for a cousin's funeral, and before he left his house in N.Y., he threw in his carry-on bag an old brass knuckle he once bought at a flea market. Having seen the aforementioned brass knuckle on his desk for years, holding down piles of papers and other such detritus, I can attest, yes , your honor, he used it as a paper weight and it was being transferred to his desk in Florida where it would be resuming it's non-nefarious avocation.

Understandably, the TSA worker saw the knuckle and my dad said, sorry, just take it. No, they have to call their supervisor. Supervisor comes, Dad says, sorry, I use it as a paperweight, just take it. No, she has to call the police. Police come, first a woman and then a guy, a schmuck who was a Sergeant. The Sergeant said "book him and cuff him" and apparently the policewoman protested to him because my father heard him say to her "don't you know you're being monitored!" So, back to where we began-my almost 81 year dad was frogmarched through the terminal with the cop's hand on his shoulder (when he asked the policewoman if she could remove her hand, that it was embarrassing, she said she had to keep it there.) He was taken in the back of a patrol car somewhere (he didn't know) and put in a cell, alone with just a mattress. I should interject that my dad said that the "under-cops" were clearly upset and embarrassed by what was happening-the jailer even kind of apologized and the other 2 (women) made eye contact and communicated their feelings to him. The Sergeant, on the other hand was a real nasty one. He yelled at my dad at one point to shut up or he'd be in even more trouble than he already was in and he'd lock him in a cell with other criminals until Monday. My dad was completely cooperative, and though I know he had to be scared, he kept his wits about him, even making a decision not to make a phone call, gambling that the less fuss he made the sooner he would get out. Oy. Well, the asshole, after asking my father some questions, and discovering that my dad knew the boss of the place his father-in-law worked, left for a few minutes, and reappeared with a paper and said "I am going to do something amazing for you-if you sign this paper, I'll let you out." My dad said he must have signed something stating that he received his personal affects back (oh yeah-since he was a flight/suicide risk they took his belt and shoelaces). No charges. This was 3 hours later. Two policewomen drove him back to Kennedy, in the front seat this time, and he was able to get another plane.

I've been reading (mostly lurking) Daily Kos since 2003, I learned the truth from my parents about what our country was doing in Vietnam when I was in Jr. High, a long, long time ago, and I've been a progressive and active politically since then. In other words, like most of us here, I thought I knew my way around the block and nothing that this administration/crime syndicate could do would surprise me. However, I was wrong. We're hoping he writes this up and gets his story out, and we want to nail the nasty Sergeant. Meanwhile, what would have happened if my dad wasn't white and educated and and upper-middle class? What if he were a ...Moslem?

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2007/10/26/1437/1023

I get hassled myself. For this reason I never fly with bags. I send my shit ahead, or I buy cheap stuff and donate it to the Salvation Army when I leave.

If you don't have anything, they can't hassle you. And I tell them that, too, when I show them my military ID and note how idiotic it is that I am on a Nixonian political enemies list, in essence.

The fact is it's unconstitutional. If you pay for your ticket and aren't a threat to the safety of the aircraft, its passengers or its crew - you have a right to board that plane.

just for the record.

Edited to add: NOT that I'm defending this, just wanted the facts straight. The watch list is just a tool to intimidate the public.

They're designed to make dullards feel more secure and intimidate anyone thinking of doing something subversive ... like standing up for their rights or keeping their country from going even further off track.

Both lists assume that someone who's an actual threat won't think to change their name of make up phony identification documents. Duh!

The "No-Fly" list mostly seres to inconvenience unfortunate people who share the same name as those on the list. It messes up my former boss every time he travels by air, so I guess that's a positive.

As for the unwieldy "Watch" list, it's beyond ridiculous.

And it's quick. I figure someone who isn't so prejudiced might benefit. It's better than throwing the stuff in the trash.

but I told my SO in 2001 that same thing, Why take luggage and worry about getting lost in "transport"? and also less luggage means shorter/quicker lines.

Is it fascism yet?

or such a close facsimile of it that the difference is indistinguishable.

72 hours to ask for permission to fly within the US on domestic flights?? now that is fascism, and we are not free.

That, coupled with an impeccably shady reputation as a Republican creep, and airport security probably would have told him where he could have gotten duty-free ammo for the gun.

He did break a law, even if it was unknowingly.

I had a similar thing happen to an uncle of mine about 15 years ago.

Granted, this was before "terror alerts" but he probably should have been booked.

My aunt and uncle are retired teachers who travel a lot in an RV. For "protection," he had a switchblade in his shower kit. I'm not sure what a 5'5 70-year-old was going to do in a knife fight, but bear with me.

Anyway, they were flying to florida for a weekend and just had carry-on bags including - you guessed it - his shower kit. He forgot the knife was in there.

They go through security and the woman spots it and pulls out this giant freakin' blade. They ended up in an interrogation room for something like eight hours but were luckily let go. Never did make it to Florida.

I don't know what real choices the guards or police have in this situations. Honestly, if they had just let this guy go through, a liberal attorney like me would have found out about it and raised holy hell the next time a Muslim was detained.

but the gentleman in this story offered to just give up the brass knuckles and they still cuffed, arrested, and put him in a jail cell. That's ridiculous... and chilling.

if you let me go...

I'm getting the impression that even the level-headed law enforcement agents are being forced by 'management' to place a higher priority on getting the paperwork correct than on using common sense in their duties.

That many of the officers in the story gave him sympathy/sympathetic looks tempts me believe that even law enforcement is beginning to think the Ministry of Homeland Security is all pomp and circumstance and not really effective at the local level.

I think that is the issue. They should have been more like Andy, and less like Barney.

I think it could have been handled far more sensitively.

If TSA arrested everyone who had a banned item confiscated by them they'd be filling the jails. All they needed to do in this case was keep the item. Yeah an 81 year old man with a set of brass knuckles he offered to surrender is a terrorist! They confiscate tons of banned items and actually there are a number of states making money reselling the swiss army, leatherman, misc, items on the web. I've seen countless stories like below. Heck I've surfed ebay and actually bought a couple of interesting confiscated articles.

More than five years after the 2001 terrorist attacks against the United States, travelers continue to surrender uncounted numbers of lighters, nail scissors, pocketknives, and other items to security inspectors before boarding planes at Ohio and Michigan airports.

Almost as amazing are some of the odd items people have tried to bring aboard aircraft in the two states, including pool cues, a crowbar, barbecue tools, and a set of rowing oars.

Most items surrendered or confiscated by federal Transportation Security Administration at airports like Toledo Express and Detroit Metro are collected and later given to each state to sell. Michigan makes the items available at a surplus store in Lansing. Ohio sells it at surplus-property auctions in Columbus.

One such auction will be conducted Saturday by the Ohio Department of Administrative Services, the agency to which the TSA turns over property surrendered at most Ohio airports.

http://www.toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061030/NEWS08/61030012

This thread is a real piece of work.

The "paper weight" excuse is a real hoot. I'm sure the police never heard THAT excuse.

Confiscate them. Laugh about the "dumb" senior and let him go on with his flight which is ultimately what happened anyway. I don't believe it is universally a felony. Misdemeanor in some states from what I could see. Issue him a friggin' summons at the airport.

We need Law enforcement officers who use common sense and not act as robots.

for a long time. the cowardly

There was no reason to take an 80 year old man to jail for having a piece of metal in his luggage. He told them to discard it. He didn't protest or cause any kind of a disturbance. Ok, I get that brass knuckles are illegal. That doesn't mean that he needed to be driven across town in a squad car while handcuffed and stick him in a jail cell and yell abuse at him and threaten to put him in a cell with other people! (Have you ever been handcuffed? Can you imagine how uncomfortable - even dangerous - this would be for an 80 year old?)

This is ridiculous and anyone going along with this kind of abuse of power is helping this country's slide into brutal fascism.

and Mike Malloy....Oh better yet.....Ed Schultz because he is on this airport/airline/TSA neglect/abuse...etc...all the above with the airports.

Rendition....He would be whisked away to Nigeria or some such and tortured until he "signs ze papers ol' man". No one would even know where he went or what had happened to him.. Ain't Amerika great? "Home of the Brave..."

I'm a white male who flies about 70,000 miles a year, and I get picked for secondary screening almost EVERY TIME. (I did see a white teenaged female with brass knuckles get nailed the last time I flew, though.)

I forgot about how easy Muslims have it at airports. What with everyone willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and all. :eyes:

(Kidding.....) I just fly often enough to see that me, a US Citizen with an advanced purchased round trip ticket gets searched far more often than any other group I see in US airports.

I think they intentionally avoid some groups just so they can avoid the appearance of racial profiling. Search all the white males you want - no one will complain. Search a Muslim, though, and it'll make all the papers.

Did you notice the very first word, by any chance?

Have a sense of humor. If I can get "strip searched" 5-6 times a year going through an airport and still have a sense of humor about it, it can't be that difficult. :)

you could never work for TSA, you haven't got the street smarts.

folks who aren't white, and another line that moves twice as quickly for your demographic.

But who knows -- maybe they just like to search you in particular.

:shrug: I'm flagged every time to step to the side. Now I just make sure to get to the airport in plenty of time, because of it. I've been searched enough that I'm used to the routine of it.

Because you get picked for screening means the a Muslim won't?

Bit of a stretch there, dontcha think...?

What are we? British from the turn of the century?

Though you point stands....

I'm not sure which is the more authoritative transliteration.

I am a senior 65-1/2 female (Caucasian and from a small Oregon town) and when I flew for the first time since the new security stations were set up I barely made it out of town to the east coast.

I didn't understand what to expect, and the female security guard put me into a glassed in area in full view of all the passengers so she could frisk me. I even asked for privacy for this (silly me!).

Since I had a six-month old total right knee replacement with a six-inch scar to prove it, the woman had to run her hand along my knee to see if there was any noticeable weapon imbedded under my skin. This has since been done at other airports.

The only people in the glass "room" were old ladies like me!!!!!!!!

Next time I flew I wore shorts so they could fondle my knee easier.

so you can't see the fucker stealing your laptop off the conveyer belt and taking off with it (happened to a friend of mine who wasn't allowed to bring his shit with him while they made him "step aside").

They had no good explanation as to how the thing went missing, either. How DID that guy get on the other side of security, and then disappear? They saw the guy on the video, apparently, but never managed to catch him. It's only property, you see.

Do you feel safer?

if time allows. I spent three weeks in Kentucky last year and mailed a box of necessities ahead.

Worked out great; I would do it again.

A guy I know who is an older long-time cop told me a few weeks ago that he's appalled by some of the newer guys on the force who have very little regard for the average citizen and look for any excuse to throw their weight around and act like bullies.

One of his jobs is to counsel them when it looks like they're headed for trouble and to try and get some of the worst ones fired. A lot of these guys walk around with a chip on their shoulder looking for excuses to rough up people even on routine traffic stops. He said that there have always been some bad apples, but that they used to be weeded out quickly. In the last few years the lack of good supervisors and the kind of recruits who aren't being culled out in training have put more of these guys on the street. He also thinks that there may be more cops like this because our society in general has more people who think it's OK to act this way.

I think that the police state mentality we have now encourages this kind of behavior. Gotta keep people in line, don't you know.

(That last sentence is meant to be irony if someone isn't sure...you never know around here anymore.)

Barney's heart was in the right place, even if his brain wasn't always connected. It seems many 'security' agencies are looking beyond Barney for people who really do have black hearts to go with the loose wiring. A little authority given to the wrong personality is JUST the ticket to make them puff up and become real tools for the fascists. Give a power junkie just a wee taste and he/she will be your puppet forever just to get their fix.

So many methods used in Germany all those decades ago being dusted off and updated for us all now.

The guy has issues that actually make him a danger to passengers, rather than a protector.

Your father is the best, God bless him.

Hell, you can use a bath towel as a weapon if you use it right.

They're overboard with their bs and anyone who points it out is disturbing the sheep from their slumber.

see them ban and start confiscating THEM.

BTW, I routinely smuggle a metal crochet hook onto planes so I can crochet on a doily during takeoff and on the trip. It's very relaxing. No, I won't tell how I do it other than to say no, it doesn't involve any bodily cavities.

I've seen them on planes many times. Talk about a deadly weapon.

--IMM

apparently they are no longer dangerous. The shampoo is.

your poor father, thank goodness he is of sound mind. This country is finished.

but since not too many people seem to be asking, did he or did he not take a weapon through security? You said he's "Sharp as a...??" It was ruled and has been known for a long time now that "I didn't know. just take it" is no longer an accceptable defense.

And he wasn't pinched for a nail clipper, or a 3.1 ounce tube of Crest. He was pinched because he was carrying something that was designed for no other purpose than serving as a weapon. I suppose the Seargent or someone else should have just thought "Hmm, he's old, it must be a paperweight after all." Perhaps the Seargent should have just decided not to follow his procedures because "He's a nice old man after all." The Seargent was probably pissed at having to go through this routine for such a monumentally stupid thing for a traveler to do. The guy interviews your father (Which he didn't have to do) and decides he can be cleared (Which he didn't have to do) lets him go with a ride to the airport (Which he didn't have to do) and you're PISSED? Why is it every time some officer gets stuck carrying out his job because somebody doesn't show simple common sense, everyone wants to attack him or her? Yeah, go after the "Nasty Seargent" instead of recognizing your father did a stupid thing and got treated rather well nonetheless.

It doesn't sound like he had too bad a time of it anyway. "Frog-marched" is a pretty subjective term. Your father was decently treated, and then released by this "Asshole Seargent" without even the minor charges he was due for the crime.

He's not my father. This is a post from kos, as is clearly indicated by the link.

That aside, I disagree completely. They could have used listening skills and basic deduction to figure out that this guy posed ZERO threat, and acted accordingly, after confiscating the item. And I don't see how you can characterize what happened to him as good treatment.

Are you sure you're posting on the right site?

vis a vis the interview. The TSA checkpoint doesn't do that. It gets handed over, which it did. And he was obviously deemed not a threat after a historically short amount of time. He was then released. Where in there do you see mistreatment?

And yes, I'm at exactly the right site. I'm just not one of the "Blame the cops because I was an idiot" types that are so prevalent today.

like "an idiot"?!? - even though there is NO Danger and ramping up the fear and intimidation is totally unnecessary and con tray to common sense? That in this INSANELY police state loving time, the cop should not apply any discretion unless "the idiot" is a right wing celebrity or the spouse of one? :(

No fear and intimidation, the guy went into a (Solo) lockup for a very short time, got deemed ok, and released with a ride. The cop DID apply discretion. You'd have to have lived a terribly sheltered life to consider that "Jackbooted."

Don't give "Authority" an inch or they'll take it all. Far too many of these "security oriented" people can be every bit as brutal as the SS if given half a chance. :(

My brother is a retired state prison guard. He's told me stories that would give you nightmares. Re: some of this co-workers who "got off" on messing with the prisoners. When there was a riot, my brother was the only one to volunteer to go behind the lock up and carry out a wounded guard. My brother did not get attack and was able to extract this fellow guard ... why do you think that was? It was because my brother was not a f**king "power hungry" jerk in his everyday dealings with the prison population.

No, they're the minority but there's a significant segment of the "security field" that consists of nothing less than wannabe Jack Booted Thugs. No, no slack! :thumbsdown:

a RW talking point. "Baby Step," "Slippery Slope," etc. "Give an inch and they'll come take all your guns, give an inch and Washington will blow up!" Sound familiar?

They are trying to make us wet our pants over terrorists, your position wants soaked jeans over "Security oriented" cops. This guy (Seargent) had for all appearances a felony offender in his hands, and what did he do? A few hours segregated, and a ride back to the airport. At the very least, the guy legally should have been charged with something and he got off without even that! If that's a pair of jackboots, forgive us if we don't shiver and shake over them.

him and many others would have put the old guy in jail just to pump up their arrest record.

I come from a long line of "security" types. The good ones are wonderful, but they have to tolerate the thugs who make life horrid for both civilians and other GOOD cops.

No, don't wet your pants, DEMAND that your rights be honored.

The right to carry a weapon onto a plane?

The parent in this story was caught in the act of committing a crime. He was briefly detained and then released.

From what I can see the police officer was simply doing his job. Perhaps a little more vigorously than he should have. But then again, this is a second-hand account with a clear agenda. For all we know, the officer was kind and bought the old man a Starbucks.

Here's something to consider. Let's say I'm a highjacker. It would be stupid of me to get caught with a weapon. So, I hide it in the carry on bag of an innocent-looking person. Then, on the plane, I grab the bag out of the overhead and do my business. It's just a thought.

Best regards and OUT here. :hi:

why was it then brought to an airport for a flight, when it was on the desk (as a paperweight), previously?
I am not accusing - just asking why it (technically, a 'weapon') was moved from a desk to the overnight bag, in the first place?

a paperweight.

Nobody is dumb enough to bring a heavy metal weapon on a plane without trying to HIDE it where it won't be found if they intend to use it as a weapon.

I brought my pocketknife to a flight last Christmas and had to surrender it. It never actually occurred to me that it was a problem, it's a VERY USEFUL TOOL for god's sake. And yes, I know they confiscate pocket knives. I just wasn't thinking. It's not a weapon to me. And BTW, I WAS NOT ARRESTED for it.

Brass knuckles are considered a deadly weapon in New York (and most other states, if I'm not mistaken). They are illegal to possess and sell so merchants try to play cute with the law by calling them 'paper weights' - that doesn't fly with the law. They are still illegal to possess. I'm sure the cops never heard THAT one.

Paper weight...LOL......

Don't be silly, that isn't a hunting knife...it's a PAPERWEIGHT!!!

Nothing to see here, just paperweights!!!



http://www.smh.com.au/ffximage/2005/12/19/weapon_wideweb__470x295,0.jpg

are you f'ing kidding? it was alreadey FIXED! The old man committed a felony! Any policeman could have simple charged him as such and left him in a cell to wait for a judge. This cop CHOSE to examine the guy and then let him go! The cop could (And by typical procedure WOULD) have booked him and been on his way.

What is so incredibly angry in you that you still see the fault being the cop's? How much more do you think the cop could have done? When TSA calls the police, the police have NO CHOICE but to respond and follow certain procedures. This guy deviated from those procedures in a way that saved the old man from a world of hurt.

What would you call a society where reasonable people must continually apologize for and mitigate the harm of unreasonable laws?

Maybe you should attack THEM as well with that stupid "you don't read for comprehension" bla bla bla garbage. Oh yeah, that's right, he/she agrees with you.

It's an easy mistake to make......just sayin.

As for the OP. No offense, but....

A) I don't buy the father's story that it's just a "paper weight." I know a lot of old timers that carry weapons like that because they are afraid of the world and the fact that they can't handle themselves like they used to. A lot of the old timers I knew liked to carry, in their cars, billy clubs labeled "tire thumpers"......nudge nudge, wink wink. Come on.....he was transferring his beloved paperweight from office to office? LOL. Couldn't live without that novelty item he bought at a flea market? Please.

B) Brass knuckles are illegal to carry anywhere.....not just the airport.

C) If this had happened on the street I'm pretty sure most cops would have confiscated the weapon.....BUT.....With all the extra eyes watching, the copper probably felt he needed to make the arrest.

And also, the cop could have made a felony arrest (as another poster indicted), but choose not to do that.
I don't think airports (or anywhere else) are places for brass knuckles.
That having been said, I hope the elderly gentleman is OK.

What they should carry (and learn to use as a weapon) is a good walking stick. Canes are not prohibited and are excellent self defense weapons.

I have a nice collection of Irish Blackthorn walking sticks. My favorite was my grandfather's grandfather's; his son brought it to the USA in the 1870s to remember his late father.

post. It was not entirely clear (and I've always scored 99+ percentile on reading comp, FWIW). The story in your OP very well could have been from *your own* DailyKos diary that you were pointing out to us. Just the other day, someone here at DU (perhaps Calimary?) did just that -- she started a thread about a LTTE or post on another blog that she herself had written, and linked to it here. Some of our DUers write good stuff on multiple websites, not just here.

Reading comprehension IS often quite bad here, which can be quite frustrating. But your OP was not exactly the epitome of clarity.

Do you think we may be living in a totalitarian society?

We've always accepted that the rich and powerful enjoy extra perks, but do they also enjoy escaping both arrest and prosecution when THEY clearly break the laws? :(

All animals are equal but some animals are more equal than others. :scared:

NEWARK, N.J. (AP) — The wife of CNN "Moneyline" host Lou Dobbs was arrested at Newark Liberty International Airport on Wednesday for having a loaded handgun in her handbag, authorities said.
Debi Dobbs, 49, of Sussex, was arrested at the security checkpoint at Terminal C after the gun was discovered, according to Allen Morrison, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the airport.
She was arrested at 3:15 p.m. without incident, Morrison said. Debi Dobbs was charged with criminal possession of a weapon and released on her own recognizance.
A spokesman for the Transportation Security Administration said they were trying to determine the caliber of the gun.
Morrison said Debi Dobbs did not tell officers why she had the gun.
Debi Dobbs was at the airport to board a flight to Florida, authorities said. Christa Robinson, a CNN spokeswoman, confirmed that Debi Dobbs is the wife of Lou Dobbs, the host of that network's nightly business show "Moneyline."
Robinson said Lou Dobbs was not available for comment. He was not with his wife at the airport.

However the "punk in me" still kind of doubts they *slapped the cuffs on* the illustrious "Mrs. Lou Dobbs." :evilgrin: ;)

but even so, as I recall she was treated very lightly, and I wasn't happy at all about it. There is no excuse whatsoever, no matter who does it.

Everyone knows you can't take a weapon on a plane. But if in your mind, the weapon is a paper weight or tool or whatever, your inner sentry doesn't consider it a weapon and you pack it in your carry on without realizing what you have done.

Been there, done that.

it the "Item" in question is something that could slip through your radar like a Leatherman. But brass knuckles are not such an item.

I speak as someone who thought of box cutters solely as a tidy way to open packages. (Plus mine were much smaller, more like an X-acto knife.)

The sergeant has a duty to follow procedures. The sergeant is not required to yell at people who piss him off. That's not carrying out his job, that's acting like a self-important, power-hungry jerk.
Getting yelled at while you're in cuffs is not being treated fairly well. The sergeant "did him a favor" by dropping the charges --bullshit. It was part of the power play and designed to make the man feel grateful to someone who acted unprofessionally.

they could have just let him go - his explanation sounded pretty good, given his age, what are the chances he is planning something devious? His explanation makes sense just because they caught it. 911 was based on a surprise factor, that's why it can't be done again. Those brass knuckles would have been picked up in the x-ray machines pre-911. If he was planning something dangerous, he'd be smart enough not to put them where they would obviously be found. And how many 81 year olds commit crimes of this nature?

I would tend to believe that we are overreacting about such things as this and using up time on them and not paying attention. If 911 were to have been discovered before and prevented, it would have taken somebody paying attention and being able to pick out the person who was really off, really crazy. Instead, we waste time worrying about every single person. We take off our shoes and that prevents shoe bombers, great, but the next one to pull off an attack, if God forbid, there is one, is not going to go that route. It's going to be something no one expects. Picking that out requires paying attention to what is going on in the present, not spending the present harassing 80 year olds.

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My beloved mother: 79 y.o. osteoporosis ridden (all hunched over), 98 pound, wheelchair bound was forced to stand in order for her to be frisked at the Baltimore Washington International airport on her way back to Phoenix last September.

Watching the scene from afar I was so angry I burst into tears. But there's nothing I could do. My husband who is my personality opposite was noticeably disquieted and said to me as we were driving back to Northern Virginia, "What? Did they really think at all before doing THAT!?! Did they think that your 79 y.o. bone thin mother might be packing a bomb in her little hair bun because there was no room anywhere else for her to stash anything?" :crazy:

IMO, only in a post 9/11 bat shit crazy *Police State* mindset should anyone condone arresting a 80 year old for this silly reason. :(

So yes cali, my heart goes out to you and your family for this travesty, :grouphug: ... not only a travesty of justice but poor application of "common sense." The worst they should have done is temporarily confiscate the brass knuckles and write out a ticket. The foregoing is understandable even though I don't see how an 80 year old person could do much damage with them. :eyes:

this is a story I reposted from kos.

But I do know how you feel about your mom, and extend my sympathies. The same thing happens to my mom on a regular basis. She's also a tiny, elderly lady, and it happens to her several times a year, as she travels between London and NY. I've had exactly the same experience you did, when she had to get out of the wheelchair she was using, at JFK, after having had two knee replacements.

Well, go figure. Guess my desire to make amends with you affected my "attention to detail." :blush:

Thanks for making me smart. ;)

It has been about protecting THEM. Their positions of power, their control of the resources, their ability to inimidate & demean their fellow human beings so they can prop up their petty little insecure egos through war & hate.

I am sorry for your dad, but he sounds like he handled it with class.

and the man offered to give them to the security officers, what was the point in taking him into custody?

You know what the problem is? It's the kind of jack offs that are attracted to security work. No, not all security/police officers are jack offs. The majority are good people doing good work. But it seems to me that kind of work also attracts big men with small penises who feel the need to...uhmmm...inflate themselves by shoving others around.

The security person is a jack off for finding a weapon classified as deadly? I suppose other DUers would laugh and call them jack offs when they miss a deadly weapon.

It's funny how so many people use brass knuckles as "paper weights." It's even funnier that DUers fall for that shit.

I am not sure I can get real worked up about this situation now. But hey, it WAS a security guard and somebody DID have to be detained, so there you go!

.....it's not like it was some lone cop on the street with nobody looking over his shoulder. Possession of the knuckles, if I'm not mistaken, is a felony. Once the TSA person started the ball tolling there was probably a paper trail the copper had to think about before he exercised his discretion.

with obviously sufficient evidence and still released free and clear (Without even having to explain himself to a judge) after several hours is what I earlier referred to as pretty decent treatment. That Seargent that a lot of people are slamming did the guy a HUGE favor!

No room for discretion by those LIBERAL activist judges.

The law is the law MF! *except if you are one of the political elites. :eyes:

p.s. Thank GOD that officer saved us from an 80 year old man with brass knuckles - just imagine the damage he could have done? :crazy:

no discretion by a judge was needed, since the "Evil" Seargent gave the guy all sorts of discretion. Rather than saving "You" from 80-year old men with brass knuckles, a clear thinking policeman saved an old absent-minded man fromm himself.

You're so eager to be mad at somebody, you automatically target the guy with the uniform on. He's the very guy who kept an old fool from facing the penalties he might otherwise have.

Did you read the OP? Or not?

:P

Many people flock around and try to "cuddle up" to all authority figures ... seemingly savor the few scraps that are sent their way.

IMO, You're similar to me in attitude: a person who doesn't ADORE the concept of authority figures ... just because ... well, they're deemed to be authority figures. :shrug:

There are a few of us still around. :hi:

when it comes down to it, thats all it is. What about rocks, while we're at it - they have been deadly weapons for millenium.

As a sidenote - my 11 year old daughter owns a little pocketknife. A version of a basic tool humans have use for a couple of hundred thousands of years in the ordinary course of life. A couple of weeks ago she left it on the lanyard she carries her house-key and mp3 player on, and brought it to school. Long story short - a kid noticed it in her backpack, told a teacher who told the principal, who called her in the office and suspended her while she consulted with the school district authorities...

Expulsion would have been an easy and life-destroying option, but the result was nothing - she is back in school, incident forgotten as there was no "intent" and no lack of remorse. Everyone where I live thinks it is absurd, as the older generation carried guns and knives without a thought, even doing a little hunting before or after school. And I can say that this little pocketknife would have been much useful to a determined miscreant than the scissors every schoolkid has to have at their desk...

Yet we follow the rules, say nothing, justify the reasoning amongst ourselves, live as obedient subjects in fear...

disabled hand grenade that he uses as a paper weight. And it is still dangerous as a weapon because it is heavy and it is metal. So????? Who in their right mind would use a grenade as a paperweight? Who would fall for that shit? Face it, it happens, and not at all surprising that someone would use a weapon as a paper weight. You seem to be certain that the old man had a nefarious purpose. Why is that?

I said I didn't buy his story that he had to transfer his beloved paperweight across the country because he had some papers that needed weighting in another state. I said I didn't buy his paperweight story because he AND EVERYONE ELSE coincidentally calls knuckles "paperweights" - that's how they are marketed using a lame attempt to skirt the law. They are sold at flea markets marked "paper weights".....just like the billy club "tire thumpers" people carry in their cars.

I don't even necessarily agree that possessing brass knuckles SHOULD be classified as felony - but it IS. My POINT is, the TSA person probably doesn't HAVE DISCRETION when it comes to items classified BY THE FUCKING LEGISLATURE as a DEADLY WEAPON. We're not talking about a tube of toothpaste or a half empty bottle of water, it's A DEADLY WEAPON (as classified by the legislature). And once the TSA person started the ball rolling, the copper probably had no choice but to take him in to custody. Ask any cop and they will tell you the problems with cutting someone a break when everyone, including other authorities, is watching you - especially for a felony.

Perhaps DU can start a campaign to legalize brass knuckles - that should be a fun one to watch.

The ironic part is, Sargent Bad Guy has a good chance of getting in trouble, should this story get media attention, for doing the old timer a favor and not charging him because of who he knows.

BTW, have your dad bring that disabled grenade through airport security and let me know how that works out for him.

You could go through these counters to be advised of what you can and cannot take through the "security checkpoints." That way, you don't get caught off-guard. If such an option existed, then the "pre-screener" could have said, "Sir, I think Security will take those brass knuckles. You may want to leave them behind."

For example, Monday I fly out of KCI to LAX. I will visit a few friends in southern California and thought I might take a few bottles of Gates & Sons Barbecue Sauce (local KC family with successful barbecue restaurants here in KC) as gifts. At first I was going to put them in my carry-on (much safer) then thought, "Whoa! If they're making passengers dump shampoo, what're they going to do with several bottles of barbecue sauce!" At best they'd just make me dump them, but who knows? I just don't want to draw attention to myself!

All because Bush refused to have the commandos of his pals arrested prior to 9/11.

Sure, it's kinder and gentler than other police states. Cotton-soft, with that April fresh scent.

But a police state is a police state, even if some compare the worst exemplars against the current situation, and come back at yours truly with a resounding "Nuh Uh! Is NOT! How dare you say that! I'm OUTRAGED that you would call this a police state! Rabble Rabble Rabble!"

Just thank your lucky stars that you weren't young and Muslim. Then you'd have found out that dickhead cops who love to push others around can be truly DANGEROUS, and not just the annoying little shitstains that you've experienced.

So, 81 or not, he was breaking the law. You may disagree with the law, but if it is illegal to own brass knuckles, it is illegal to own brass knuckles.

>>The Sullivan Act, also known as the Sullivan Law, is a controversial gun control law in New York State. It was named for its primary legislative sponsor, state senator Timothy Sullivan, a notoriously corrupt Tammany Hall politician. It dates to 1911, and is still in force, making it one of the older gun control laws in the United States. Upon first passage, the Sullivan Act required licenses for New Yorkers to possess firearms small enough to be concealed. Possession of such firearms without a license was a misdemeanor, carrying them was a felony. The possession or carrying of weapons such as brass knuckles, sandbags, blackjacks, bludgeons or bombs was a felony, as was possessing or carrying a dagger, "dangerous knife" or razor "with intent to use the same unlawfully".<<

retail that are totally illegal. Is everybody up on the laws in your state? Other states? What kind of knife can you own? Can you own a blackjack? An extending baton? A sword in a cane? Weighted gloves? A sap? Nunchucks? Is your paperweight legal? I remember in the 70's some areas going nutso over nunchucks cause they grew popular from the Bruce Lee and and other "chop-socky" movies.

Fun looking through a weapons catalog and seeing what states/localities can't be shipped to with some items.

Yeah I wouldn't go to the airport with any of the above and try to go through security. But my point is many otherwise law-abiding citizens may have an item that is illegal in their state. I know of three I have but unless they search my home big f'in deal.

But I've also read of citizens going through one of those drunken driving checkpoints getting busted for having an illegal weapon and I don't mean a gun just cause some cop saw it in the car. One woman got busted for an extending baton I bet she carried for self-defense. And btw I hate those checkpoints, smacks to me of facism.

If you are inclined to carry a weapon that is designed to cause severe bodily harm to another person, I think you owe it to yourself to at least do a little googling regarding the laws in your jurisdiction.

I keep a handgun locked in my safe in my Chicago home. I'm quite aware that possession of a handgun is a felony within Chicago city limits. I don't worry too much about it because the chance of that weapon leaving my safe is one in ten million - if the King of England comes over here to push us around (Simpsons reference) or zombies attack.......

.....but if I do something stupid and get caught by the Chicago PD you won't hear me squawking all over the intertubes that the gun was a paperweight.

Why was he released without charges? Because the law allows discretion.

If the story is generally accurate then there is no issue of the old man resisting arrest, yelling and screaming or causing a scene, yet the sergeant went straight to anger and berating. That's the behavior that is unacceptable.

It's a trickle down kind of recklessness and carelessness and lack of any common sense. And as the fact that the fascist and criminal drug war is still with us, this kind of police sentiment will also remain. That is, unless we have a major reversal of thinking in this country. And from the apathy and ignorance we see, that isn't going to happen soon.

And they let Bin Laden go. And Bush's war has killed around a MILLION people, and he struts around free.

Reality is hiding somewhere.

By the way, there should be an ACLU suit out of this if I could make a guess.

We always hid when we smoked a joint. The "narc" was always lurking. And then came Reagan. And doors were busted down. Houses were confiscated. Gov. Wilson and his "Smoke a joint, lose your license". What an ass that guy was. And I could tell the story of how I nearly died of a heart attack while the cops busted my neighbor, and roamed my property with rifles drawn. Copters, humvees, berrets on guys with camo uniforms, all for three plants. I had a few too, and was scared witless. My life was just about to go down the drain, before my eyes. That was 1995. My life has changed now. But it's not like I was doing anything wrong. Just a few plants. I've lived in fear for decades. Not any more. But it didn't deter me. That's the fallacy of the whole thing.

But I got your message. It's not REALLY a police state yet. Or is it? It doesn't happen over night. And we're already well on our way.

OMG, that freaks me out beyond belief. :(

ACLU suit: false arrest, excessive (unreasonable) detention, probably a few other charges.

yeahhhhh, little pink houses for you and me.

all 9/11 did was give power to the pricks of our society. the little dicks that wanted to wear big pants.

It hardly pays to travel anymore. Sorry that happened to your dad.

except themselves....

They make decisions based on POWER

goon n. Slang. A thug hired to intimidate or harm opponents.

Seems the TSA has more than a few of these and the injustice and the lists keep growing.

The TSO's should not have called a LEO, especially after her dad said to just take the brass knuckles. Bunch of useless jobsworths.



:mad: :mad:

edited for lack of reading comprehension skills.


:smoke:

screw any illusion self sacrificing of their fee for safety. and illusion, cause in reality they are in more danger than ever have been from terrorists. i boldly look in the eye and challenge every time i go into an airport. i will not lower my eyes. i will not be a coward in this abuse and help perpetuate this abused power. every person that allows these intimidations and abuses feeds the illness.

a man tried to carry brass knuckles onto a commercial jet liner and is somehow surprised at being immediately arrested? He was embarrassed by being arrested for trying to smuggle brass knuckles onto a plane and thought that by virtue of being embarrassed that a different procedure ought to be followed? Then the entire process was voided because someone knew someone? No charges?

People should get fired over this. The people who didn't charge him that is. I don't give a shit how old he is.

thinking that you are truly afraid some 80 man going to attack you. that it is really necessary to put the man in jail.

i would hate to go thru life so very very afraid...... of an 80 yr old man

brass knuckles are already illegal in New York... carrying weapons, likewise, not allowed on a commercial jet...

I don't give a shit about the 80 year old man... I don't like the idea of laws being subject to arbitrary enforcement. I don't like the idea that if you know the right people that legal troubles vanish. That's bullshit.

and not living in new york.... why the hell would i know that they are illegal. and second cause it is OBVIOUS the man did not have a desire to do any harm with them what so ever

i am not a believer in follow blindly forsaking common sense. one of the great errors we are committing today in our society, when we no longer use our brain and one fits all rule. kinda like the chicken shit, cowardly no tolerance rule in school. cause people feel to be so very incompetent they cannot trust their own abilities to think.

I don't give a shit about this 80 year old idiot. I care about the fair and just enforcement of laws. If you allow for a situation where a man gets let off a charge based on age or who he knows, you are BEGGING for another man to be unjustly convicted based on the color of his skin.

The old idiot should have been charged and brought to trial.

Yeah I'm scared to death of an 81 year old with brass knuckles. Scared he might fall over from lifting the extra weight.

Gimme a fucking break. What is with people? Let me ask all the people who think this was a righteous bust a question. Why is it that a Bic lighter was dangerous to carry on a plane a month ago but is not now? Why is it I could have been thrown in jail for sneaking a lighter through security a month ago but now it's just fine and dandy? Can anyone give me an answer that makes sense to a person with an IQ above double digits?

and thank you. i could not be that if i try. and i mean it literally, i could not be that. it is not within me to blindly follow. i cant do it. the brain kicks in, and i think.... and i am lost. i cant follow.

you point about the lighter is right on. BUT... you cannot get the black and white thinker to flex their mind enough to even THINK about it. lol lol. it is like the speed limits. they say you speed you are a killer, irresponsible and this and that. YET, the speed limit was 55. now they are 70. did the roads get safer? what changed to make it all of a sudden less deadly to go fast than when at 55. and if that is the case, that it was always safe to go 70, which we know (living in the open space of the west) why the hell should i putt at 55 because someone "decided" i need to.

does this mean we can take away their licences at a certain age? You can't have it both ways, sunshine. The elderly are either subject to all the same laws as the rest of us or they're packed off to homes.

My husband had a camping knife that was over their length limit. They sealed it in an envelope with his ticket number and airport destination on it to be picked up when he landed, which he did. No muss, no fuss.

as a frequent flyer, I feel a hell of a lot better knowing that no one is allowed to carry shit like that on board planes any more.

How about a coffee mug? Or my boot? For that matter, my hand is a lethal weapon. I think part of the point of what this thread, and even this whole forum, is about, is freedom. With freedom comes risk. That includes freedom of speech. It's no different. Someone is going to get their feelings hurt. But that's the risk we take. I'm afraid brass knuckles, even if designed with a specific intent, are not a threat. They aren't going to take the plane down. And they certainly aren't going to create a disruption much beyond the use of the very hands we are born with. Now a gun is a different subject. Or even a knife. I think it's sign of how sorry a situation we find ourselves in.

oh thank you internet, thank you... ha ha ha ha ha

Undead.

I am a Jihadist could get on a plane with a large knife made from unbreakable sharpened plastic. Now that makes sense.

They packed it up with his name and destination so he could recover it after landing. Whythehell couldn't that have been done with the brass knuckles?

and 9/11 happened?

So just pack them up so they can't be used and give them back at the end of the flight. Wotthehell ever happened to common sense?

is everyone posting in this thread utterly lacking in reason and rationality or what?

laws that make it a criminal offence to attempt to smuggle weapons onto a plane are GOOD laws. And I don't give a shit whose father, uncle, brother, husband is involved.

Even Atta was someone's son.

You take it away, seal it in an labeled envelope, and put it in the cargo hold with similar contraband. When the plane lands, the owners pick up their stuff at the luggage carousel. What is your problem with that?

Funny haven't seen those videos of Al Qaeda's AARP division in those training vids.

BTW, I always laugh at the dude's spinning martial arts movie kicks in the videos - that fancy crap almost never works in real life.

the law applies to everyone equally or it will not apply to anyone equally.

airlines who may be shipping their maintenance out of U.S. Or of some of these airlines paying fast-food wages to the pilots.

Maybe you ought to find a way to stay on the ground if you're that nervous about 80 year olds with brass knuckles.

planes.... Jesus H. Christ why don't you people get it?

Have you tried any products made by Fleet?

I took him to Ontario Airport (Ontario, CA) so that he could fly back to Arizona (once there, he was going to drive some stuff to his new home in Calif.). That was in the day in which you walked right up to a ladder-thingie, and climbed it to get into the jet. You just threw your luggage in this bin, and the they trucked it in an electric cart to the plane and loaded it right in front of you.

Anyway, we got up to this little metal detector, and the guard told my dad to empty his pockets. Well, out came the bullets (he was a hunter, and he carried them). I just rolled my eyes as in "He's a nutty old coot," and said to Dad, "Dad, you're not supposed to bring that stuff to the airport." He had his Korean war vet hat on, with crew cut, and he said, kind of absent-mindedly, "Well, I forgot." Dad just screamed "nutty old alcoholic coot." in terms of his appearance. My hubby rather unwisely laughed and said, "Glad he didn't bring his old grenade launcher ..." The guards just laughed, disposed of the bullets, and let him on the plane.

Times, they have changed (actually, he DID have an old grenade launcher ... wonder what happened to that thing .... oops, just joking, Agent Mike ... I have no knowledge of any grenade launcher ... wouldn't know what one looks like ...) ...

;-)

We have a jackbooted thug devotee right on this board!

Disguting.

What kind of country do we live in now? Never mind just a rhetorical question.

Why don't you send this to KO. Maybe he's ask him in for an interview.

In many if not most states brass knuckles are prohibited weapons (felonies).

I guess you are asking for the law to be skirted?

(After I saw brass knuckles, nothing else mattered, so I didn't read it all.)

that is stealing. yes he should go to jail. it is wrong. (of course it is, i teach my children well)

what if....

he had four starving kids.
he had no money
he had no one to help him
there was no other food

should he go to jail?

that one was a tough one for my non black/white thinking, compassionate children to resolve. now it wasn't so clear to the kids that he should have a harsh punishment of being sent to jail and ultimately wouldn't it be a worse crime to allow his children to suffer and ultimately die?

i have little use for the person that will refuse to go beyond the brass knuckles. they are scary people and too many of like thinking people have power over the rest of us and continually abuse us with their inability to go beyond.

laws are laws.

I have little use for those who disregard laws and then want sympathy for it.

What if it was an 18 year old, a 28 year old, etc with brass knuckles? Do you even know what brass knuckles are designed for? Hint: They weren't created to foster peace in the world.

cool look at this. not criminals. not violent people. really, one person had it as a paperweight and it was no more than that. middle aged, regular people for no reason. just a coolness of them. i did not know or even think they were against the law. all my 46 years i have not heard they were against the law.

it probably would not ever be addressed again. probably a one time thing. it is like saying, what if that 46 year old mom with two kids and husband going on a plane from amarillo texas to florida for a week vacation and a round trip were to get on the plane and blow it up?

what the f* IF.......

all the abuses, all the nonthinking is all about the what ifs....

i dont want to live a life of what ifs..... fears, illusions, not real, made up, could be's. i am so tired of the people that want to live this way making me particpate in it

i am NOT afraid to get on the plane of all the what ifs... my fear going into the airport is i will not be humble, or itimidated. i will not lower my eyes, or keep my moouth shut. my fear is in order for me to fear the very people that are suppose to protect me, they will in fact abuse me to instill that fear.

that is a greater concern to me than brass knuckles.

What if you were in some nice guy's house and he was using an Uzi as a paperweight? Does that change the fact that it is an Uzi? What are brass knuckles FOR? What is their only intended purpose? It isn't 'paperweight'. And if you disagree that they should be illegal, fine. Work to get the law changed. But for now, it is a felony in New York state to possess or transport a pair of brass knuckles. What if they had ignored the kindly old gentleman and allowed him to keep his 'paperweight' and he had passed it to another passenger who had used it to overcome a flight attendent? What if he was a terrorist and that was his intent all along and he just said, "Oh keep the darn things" when questioned about them to try and get by security? Why do you expect the SECURITY agent to ignore THAT weapon and just let the guy onto the plane? Because he was old?

The only way for the police to know that none of those scenarios were occurring was to detain the guy and check him out. They did. They didn't charge him with anything. They let him go and he caught a later flight. Why are you so outraged?

"weapon" that breaks the law better start building more prisons. Can't believe the number of freakin' laws are laws sheep here.

Oh yeah, laws are laws - let's put Genarlow Wilson back in prison, after all he broke Georgia law by having oral sex with a willing 15 year-old.

Come on, let's enforce every silly law on the books.

"i have little use for the person that will refuse to go beyond the brass knuckles. they are scary people and too many of like thinking people have power over the rest of us and continually abuse us with their inability to go beyond."

You are so right. People in fear are the ones who should be feared (and pitied). In the need to feel protected they wind up stripping protections instead. They'd probably feel "safer" if everyone were strip searched before they could enter the mall to shop or board a plane. Everyone would be "safe" then. Right - safe from everyone but the authorities doing the strip searches. I'm very willing to take my chances living my life without fear and without such security measures, thank you. I pity those people who feel fear and feel the need of protection. Sorry way to live and I refuse to participate. Life has always been dangerous.

with Inspector Javert than with Jean Valjean.
And I think some of them don't go beyond the brass knuckles because it is the element of the story that allows them to feel ok with advocating acquiescing to authority. And maybe that is also reassuring to some - the thought that as long as you are scrupulously obeying every new rule, you won't be singled out and harassed the way this man was. It's similar to the idea that if you have "nothing to hide" violations of privacy shouldn't bother you. And, of course, people espousing that idea feel they have nothing to hide so it won't happen to them, which is comforting to them again, since they again view themselves as immune to the harassment. But people pumped with authoritarian power generally step over the line sooner or later.

and stealing a crust of bread to feed your starving family. How, exactly, did the policeman step over the line? I am not immune to harrassment. If I carry a set of brass knuckles in New York state, I imagine I would get detained, too. What I don't understand is how detaining someone for felony possession of a weapon = harrassment? Because he was old? The police are not asked which laws they would like to enforce and which they wouldn't. In this case, other than being an asshole, the cop seemed to use his discretion to release the guy without charges. If it is the rule that the attending officer has to walk with her hand on his shoulder, it is the rule. What if she had NOT followed the rule, he had broken free and gotten away? Then everybody would be bitching about the police who didn't do their job.

Threatening him that"he'd lock him in a cell with other criminals until Monday." Not using his discretion to allow the man who was cooperating and had already had the item taken away to board the plane. What actual threat did he pose at that point? Yes, I call that harassment.

As to "it is the rule." That is exactly what Javert embodies. The rule applied remorselessly without discretion, without exception. That is also what leads us to such surreal headlines and Q&A's as this: "New Policies for Lighters, Electronics, and Breast Milk" "Q. Why is breast milk not a threat?"
Policies for breast milk? A rule not to allow breast milk, then a security guard requiring a woman to drink her breast milk before boarding, then changing the rules to allow the offending liquid.

"JFK airport security forces woman to drink own breast milk" http://www.usatoday.com/travel/news/2002/2002-08-09-jfk-security.htm

"New Policies for Lighters, Electronics, and Breast Milk"
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/sop/index.shtm

If an uproar had not occurred over this by angry passengers, would it still be the rule? Would that make it right?

and not relevent.

I said somewhere else that they should be civil about detaining the guy. For that they are wrong. But not for detaining him. You cannot lump ALL detentions together. Well, you can and you are, but you shouldn't. When you scream about the detention of someone on a felony weapons possession charge, it diminishes what is the correct response to the breast milk thing.

I don't think the police are ALWAYS right. I have seen a lot of instances where they were WAY out of line. I just try to tell the difference. I was all about being outraged when I first read this article. But then I googled, found out that brass knuckles possession is a felony in NY and I started to slow down. Then I got to thinking about other things and I figured that detaining this guy probably wasn't a big deal. The sargeant could have been more polite about it, but he wasn't wrong to do it in the first place.

about what we define as threatening and how we then react, and how that can shift from time to time.

In this case, I think the reaction was overblown and inappropriate. I also think the breast milk scrutiny was overblown and inappropriate. Yes, here there was an item that was not allowed. Fine, confiscate it, search his bags to ensure there are no other similar items, and having assessed that there's not a threat, let the cooperative man be on his way. Why threaten him? Again, what threat does he pose at that point?

As to screaming, I don't think any of my posts here reach that level. Questioning, yes. Screaming? Not so much.

and questioned and released without charges and caught another flight. Are you saying that the felony possession of a weapon should have been ignored? To find out what the guy's circumstances were, the police had to detain him.

If you don't think owning a set of brass knuckles should be a felony, that is a separate issue. It is. It is the policeman's job to serve and protect...not just forgetful old guys, but everybody else in the airport and on the plane, too. AND to uphold the law. Not interpret the law...not write the law...UPHOLD the law.

Now, I certainly agree that you can uphold the law respectfully and civilly.

Sharp as a baseball bat, maybe. Good Lord.

I'm not for this idea that the elderly get coddled when trying to bring illegal weapons on an airplane. Implying that they're frail and helpless old people is age discrimination, and I see a lot of it on this thread. An old guy with brass knuckles can well be strong enough to knock out the teeth of a stewardess - if he were so inclined. That's worth any cop taking a close look at. How do they know he isn't a nutjob?

Why take a chance?

:eyes:

And they weren't glued to his hand or something, they should have just confiscated them instead of making a scene.

but then I started thinking things like, "How do they know who this guy is and WHY he had the brass knuckles?" It isn't like if he had been part of a terrorist group feeling out the possibilities of sneaking brass knuckles onto a plane he was going to say when stopped, "Oh, you got me!! I guess this isn't going to work." The only way for them to figure out that he was as harmless as he appeared was to detain him and check him out. Then I got to thinking, "Well, they could have just let him walk through the airport on his own." But, I figured out that their job is to serve and protect...everybody. They are supposed to be protecting the other people in the terminal as well as the old guy. And since at the point at which they decided to detain him all the knew was that he was trying to carry a felony weapon onto an airplane, they needed to follow procedure and treat him as if he might be a threat.

People with them do not.

That's fair enough, IMO.

http://www.lawforkids.org/speakup/view_question.cfm?id=20925&topic=GUNS_AND_WEAPONS

Misdemeanor possesslion
http://www.beloblog.com/ProJo_Blogs/newsblog/archives/2006/10/31/

http://dwijustice.com/blog-detail.php?id=9

Illegal in Canada, but not in most countries.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brass_knuckles

Usually sold as a paperweight as a lame attempt to skirt the law. Hmmm, "paperweight." What a coincidence.


http://abclocal.go.com/wabc/story?section=local&id=4189619

I suppose we should believe the guy selling "paperweights" to high school students and gang bangers because, after all, the weapon IS labeled "paperweight."

When was the last time you heard of an 80 year old gangbanger?

.....are using them as "Tire thumpers."

Look, I'm not saying he was planning on jacking some old lady in an alley. The old timers I knew always seemed to be afraid of the world and the fact that they couldn't handle themselves like they used to......I worked as a finance manager in a Buick dealership for ten years. Our customer average age was 65 to the grave. Time after time after time, the porters would find clubs in the old timers cars ......but I'm sure they were just "tire thumpers." Oh yeah, and all the guns we came across were paperweights too.

I bet Lou Dobbs wife's gun was just a paperweight when she got arrested in an airport.......or do you have to believe she was planing a heist to believe that weapon was carried intentionally. People of all ages carry weapons.

Funny story:

About six months ago, I was in the hardware store near my house when I noticed two cars jockeying for the same parking spot. It turned in to a bit of a pissing match with both cars half way in the spot refusing to move. Anyway, the old guy that ended up winning the spot came limping in to the store with his cane in hand. The owner made some joke about the guy being a little old to be in a parking lot fight. The old guy laughed, twisted the top of his cane and produced a 30 inch sword......more paperweight I suppose.

I'm so confused. Why are they selling paperweights on gun and self defense sites?

http://www.keepshooting.com/selfdefense
http://www.security-wizard.net/brassknuckles1.html/fistgear/brassknuckle.htm
http://www.defensedevices.com/knuckles.html


Here are some "tire thumpers" from self defense sites.








I'm so confused. Why are gun and self defense sites so concerned with paper-weighting and tire safety? Gee, on one site, I can even buy a club and a paperweight as a package.

....to possess a weapon classified, by the legislature, as deadly ?

Is it the "release" part that people have a problem with? The fact that the cop used his discretion and let the man off? Is THAT the creeping fascism part here?

Or is it that brass knuckles should be legal to carry? Is it fascism to outlaw weapons that have one purpose - to smash people's faces?

what they do. All police are fascist assholes. Any police action is proof that we are on an irreversible downward spiral into a police state.

Come on, keep up. Somebody wrote a book about it. That makes it all absolutely inevitable and true.

What is 'arbitrary' about detaining someone who is breaking a felony weapons possession law?

with those brass knuckles? Because in America, the elderly can do whatever they want? Because in America, a person should be allowed to break laws concerning the carrying of weapons?

Why, precisely, isn't 'this' America?

I'm sure many have influenced bingo and shuffleboard games. It's just a matter of time until one hijacks a plane.

The world had changed, especially when it comes to airline travel.
Get used to it.

... are like the "zero-tolerance" crap showing up all over the place. The replace rational thought with mindless procedures.

They cause a lot of hassle and aggravation, and accomplish very little.