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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:06 AM
Original message
Conspiracies, Scooter, and Your Opinion
"You went into jail in the summer. It is fall now. You will have stories to cover -- Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and Iranian nuclear programs. Out West, where you vacation, the aspens will be turning. They turn in clusters, because their roots connect them. Come back to work -- and life. Until then, you will remain in my thoughts and prayers."
-- I. Liar "Scooter" Libby to Judith Miller

In the months since Scooter Libby was convicted of felony charges in federal court, his curious letter to Judith Miller when she was incarcerated has been largely forgotten. For fun, I thought it might be interesting to focus on the third sentence in the above quote:

"You will have stories to cover -- Iraqi elections and suicide bombers, biological threats and Iranian nuclear programs."

For sake of conversation, let's break the four "stories to cover" into two groups: (1) those Iraqi elections, which Mr. Libby likely viewed as a measure of the success in the neoconservative/PNAC operation to bring democracy to the Middle East; and (2) Suicide bombers, biological threats, and Iranian nuclear programs, which Mr. Libby likely viewed as the things that posed threats to the neoconservative/PNAC operation to bring democracy to the Middle East.

Considering what you know about Libby, VP Cheney, Judith Miller, and other "players," what do you think Mr. Libby was speaking of in this letter? There is no "right" or "wrong" answer here. Just people's opinions.

Thank you.
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annabanana Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. My take:
The intertwined roots of the aspen are the corporate relationships that the neocons and the neolibs share. The deep pockets shift from one party to other from time to time in order to maintain control of the agenda.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. it appears that mr libby had a personal relationship with ms miller
it also seems that libby is giving her a 'heads up' on stories the neocons would soon be promoting. funny he mentioned iran back then, but the neocons have had iran in their sights for many years.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:14 AM
Response to Original message
3. Any good info here?
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:17 AM
Response to Original message
4. he needed her to plant stories about Iran's nuclear program,
the biological threats - I don't know - maybe a reference to her book Germs?

A fun snip for you:
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=05/10/17/1422250

"Craig Pyres–who now works with the Los Angeles Times–wrote a memo to his editors five years ago and asked that his byline not appear on one piece. Pyres wrote “I do not trust her work, her judgment, or her conduct. She is an advocate, and her actions threaten the integrity of the enterprise, and of everyone who works with her…. She has turned in a draft of a story of a collective enterprise that is little more than dictation from government sources over several days, filled with unproven assertions and factual inaccuracies.”

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librechik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #4
17. yep, that's how I read it
she needs to return to her job as Libby's chief propagandist.
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PRETZEL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
5. Personally,
I probably would have broken the groups differently in that 1)those Iraqi elections, suicide bombers and biological threats and 2) Iranian nuclear programs.

But, be that as it may, my take is that Scooter was letting Judy know that her contribution was not forgotten and that she would continue to be an outlet for the neoconservative agenda no matter where she ends up writing. It was an attempt to let her know that Scooter has agreed to fall on his sword and that what happens to him would not endanger her within the circle.
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Vilis Veritas Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:25 AM
Response to Original message
6. Item 3 of group 2: The War With Iran.
Items 1 and 2 of group three have probably yet to come to light.

I suspect that the escalation to War will start with a connection being found between a Suicide Bomber and or a biological threat. When added on top of the Nuk'ler threat 1 + 2 = 3.

Even if 1 and 2 do not come about, the trump card is the Nuk'ler threat...

I hearken back to Shrub's famous statement "Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof -- the smoking gun -- that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud..."

Will we hear this again?

Peace.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
7. what is your opinion H2O Man?
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 11:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
10. I think that
the OVP/OSP/WHIG was involved in a process which, although it was compartmentalized, was intent upon changing the map of the Middle East. I think they believed that Iraq would become a convenient staging ground for the operations against Iran. I think that things that the weasal Chalabi, the espionage that involved OSP Iranian expert Franklin, AIPAC, and some of the characters from the old Iran-contra days, are part of one larger plan. I think that there are people who are employed in the corporate media who are not true journalists.
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spanone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:02 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. .....part of a larger plan indeed.
...part of a larger plan indeed.

the usa patriot act

The Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act of 2001 (Public Law 107-56), known as the USA PATRIOT Act or simply the Patriot Act, is an Act of Congress which U.S. President George W. Bush signed into law on October 26, 2001.

The Act was passed 43 days after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the World Trade Center in New York City.
It substantially expanded the authority of U.S. law enforcement agencies for the stated purpose of fighting terrorism in the United States and abroad. Among its provisions, the act increased the ability of law enforcement agencies to search telephone and e-mail communications and medical, financial and other records; eased restrictions on foreign intelligence gathering within the United States; expanded the Secretary of the Treasury’s authority to regulate financial transactions, particularly those involving foreign individuals and entities; and enhanced the discretion of law enforcement and immigration authorities in detaining and deporting immigrants suspected of terrorism-related acts. The act also expanded the definition of terrorism to include "domestic terrorism," thus enlarging the number of activities to which the Patriot Act’s expanded law enforcement powers can be applied.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USA_PATRIOT_Act
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Me. Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 10:52 AM
Response to Original message
8. Chalabi Supposedly Spying For Iran
His good friend Judy being promised there'd be a story to write about. If I was one of those 'conspiracy theorists' I could really get out of control here.
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H2O Man Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #8
11. One of his
top aides was a member of Iran's intelligence community.
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seemslikeadream Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:48 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. Burson-Marsteller Buffs Iraqi National Congress Image
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 05:51 PM by seemslikeadream
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TacticalPeek Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
9. K&R
:kick:
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malaise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:23 PM
Response to Original message
12. Judith had an agenda to push
The neocon agenda and Iran was always a part of that plan.
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
13. There is a "right" answer here.
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 05:48 PM by BuyingThyme
The Iraqi elections, etc. are the things she writes about under orders from Cheney. She (and another) wrote a whole book about bio WMD in order to get us into Iraq.

ON EDIT: I responded to an unasked question.

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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:25 PM
Response to Original message
14. Treason, among other things. k&r
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AntiFascist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 05:40 PM
Response to Original message
15. It sounds like a veiled mafioso type threat...

come back to "life" as if the alternative is death. Also, I've often felt that eventually the neocons would have to turn fully against the top Arab power players, namely Saudi Arabia and various other wealthy shiekdoms. Iran is the key to uniting the Muslim world as one complete enemy. Doesn't "Adnan Kashoggi throw lavish parties in his Aspen estate"?

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17904.htm
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:30 PM
Response to Original message
19. Well, I didn't really know much about Judy. I found a summary about her at,...
Edited on Fri Oct-26-07 06:35 PM by sicksicksick_N_tired
,...Daily Kos: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2005/7/8/16033/61733

It's hard to tell whether she's a 'succeed at all costs' journalist or something else (i.e. a member of the network, so to speak). It's pretty clear she's had ties with the neocons and their network for at least a couple decades. Figuring out Judy would most likely shed more light on such a strange communication.

On the other hand, figuring out exactly who the hell passed along that communication to the public would provide even greater clues to what it means? It may very well have been intended for members of the network or other actors. Maybe, Iraqi elections and suicide bombers and biological threats and Iranian nuclear programs was simply the order of propaganda to be utilized towards realizing PNAC.

OR, on a darker note, the message may have involved a list of events to MAKE HAPPEN in order to realize PNAC. THINK about it: Iraqi elections were made a BIG DEAL, the introduction of suicide bombers into Iraq (where it very rarely happened pre-war) occurred providing the neocon network a basis to assert that "terrorists" were now in Iraq; I know for a fact a domestic military program specifically geared towards domestic bio/chem attack was seriously stepped up earlier this year; and, last but not least, not only has the propaganda on Iran's nuclear activity skyrocketed but we also discovered an attempt to deliver faux nuclear plans occurred AND there's that HUGE 'mistake' of flying nuclear freakin' warheads across this country with an unknown destination.

I tend the believe the latter possibility the most simple explanation and, therefore, the most likely.

However, I'm always open to other possibilities.

On edit: the Aspens part always struck me as merely a reference to the neocon network.

On 2d edit: kinda' weird the neocons do, in fact, operate a network when al Qaeda means "the network",...just kinda' strange, ya' know?
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 06:45 PM
Response to Reply #19
20. Ugh! Third edit (and proferred possibility).
Maybe, it was merely released for public consumption and it was intentionally cryptic to confuse those attempting to figure what these people were/are planning next.

I withdraw my previous statement about "most simple explanation". The neocon network would NOT put out a message like that unless it was intended to be a diversion.

If I knew precisely WHO passed that along to the pressers, I'd feel more comfortable throwing out theories.
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BelgianMadCow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 07:34 PM
Response to Original message
21. "Iranian nuclear weapons" is a reference to Valerie Plame or is that stupid?
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. What made you suggest it? Does the time-frame compel you to consider,...
,...the possibility that, Wilson was intentionally set-up to expose the operation of his wife, Valerie? Valerie was working in a counter-proliferation operation that could have exposed the neocon network's instigatory nuclear activities to set up Iran as the next "justifiable" target.

Am I articulating where you are going? Or not?

:shrug:
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:34 PM
Response to Original message
23. Waterman, I think you and the other replies have nailed it pretty well
After 7 intense years of this crap I just feel so weary.

As someone said more than a few times,

"Opinions are like assholes. Everybody has one"

In that case I'd just as soon strap mine on a Vespa

and putt off to somewhere sparse of strategic nuclear targets

in light of the noises Cheney and Putin are making these days.

Care to conspire with me on a chautauqua?

I've always found you quite zen

and the art of motorcycle maintenance is within my aptitude

In any case, I appreciate your voice

(but I've never heard you sing so that may change)
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sicksicksick_N_tired Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:46 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance"? lol
:rofl:

I read that book.

What's your take on the cryptic message?
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Disturbed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:47 PM
Response to Reply #23
25. Judy Miller was on the Payrole of PNAC Cabal.
She was one of their PR personnel. Libby was telling her to hang tough;that
things would work out to both of their advantage. They did.
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 08:48 PM
Response to Reply #23
26. Damn
that's a fine
poem for a Friday night.
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Wiley50 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:22 PM
Response to Reply #26
28. Thanks Bleever!
It was the best I could do tonight with conspiracies, scooters and opinions
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bleever Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
27. I can't improve on the above responses.
But I do see this curious amnesia clouding the whole story, as Matthews was saying today.

I'm not sure I really remember how important Judy's relinquished cooperation was, in the end, to the conviction.
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:25 PM
Response to Original message
29. The Rosetta Stone to this is White House Iraq Group/WHIG-hence treason and other crimes
I mean even Judy was an "honorary" part of that conspiracy.

White House Iraq Group page from Source Watch
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=White_House_Iraq_Group

IMPEACH CHENEY FIRST-IMPEACH CHENEY NOW!
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Klukie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-26-07 09:27 PM
Response to Original message
30. I think..
he is telling her not to give up the cause. He tells her that she still has work to do. It is a pep talk of sorts. The line about the aspens strikes me as something more. Did anyone ever consider a religious angle? Here is something from wikipedia on the aspens....

The aspen tree's quivering leaves are, in Christian lore, said to be the result of arrogance at the Crucifixion because the aspen did not tremble like other trees. A German version claims that the aspen was the only tree to refuse to acknowledge the divinity of Jesus. The cross that Christ was crucified on is sometimes said to have been aspen wood. As aspens do not occur in Palestine, this legend is improbable. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspen
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bobthedrummer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Oct-28-07 09:03 AM
Response to Original message
31. .
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Octafish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Oct-29-07 09:40 PM
Response to Original message
32. The Aspens
The roots are in the dark recesses of dim royalty and self-importance.

The trunk is money and power, the other definition of politics.

The branches are legion, from drug-dealing and money-laundering to warmongering and genocide.

The leaves are individuals as diverse as Smirko and Pickles and their "all in all" happy September 11 to Joe Lieberman and his service to Likud and Sneering Dick Cheney and his love for all things petrodollar. All are members of The Octopus.

The top branches are Rockefellers and Harrimans and, now, the Bushes. Dim and self-important, but controlling the money and power.
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