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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:21 AM
Original message
USA Today reports, then deletes, Kuncinich's calls to impeach Bush & Cheney
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 11:21 AM by pat_k
In my usual search for impeachment in the news, I hit this report on the Democratic debate last night:



This is the first time since taking control of Congress that a Member of the House has unequivocally rejected Pelosi's "off the table" edict in a national forum. It is the first time Kucinich himself has called for the impeachment of BOTH Bush and Cheney to a national audience.

From the google excerpt, it appears that USA Today saw fit to report this historic event. They failed to do it justice by "burying the lead" in the establishment narrative, but it was there.

It is there no longer. The media blackout on impeachment -- the notion that calls to impeach can be ignored because its "off the table" -- apparently remains in effect at USA Today. Even a mere mention in passing was apparently too much. As of 11:00 AM, the only references to Kucinich are related to "Ohio Rep. Dennis Kucinich's claim that he has seen a UFO." (The latest version is http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/election2008/2007-10-30-dems-debate_N.htm">here. I case they've done more "work" you'll find a capture at january6th.org/usatoday-deletes-calls-to-impeach.jpg.

For those who may have missed it, here's what Dennis Kucinich had to say (time references are from the MSNBC video posted on video.msn.com.

20:45 Russert: Congressman Kucinich, your opinion of this resolution (Kyl-Leiberman).
Kucinich: Well, first of all, we need to adamantly reject any kind of a move toward war with Iran. There's no basis for it whatsoever. But we have to realize, Tim, that we have a number of enablers, who happen to be Democrats, who have said, over the last year, with respect to Iran, "all options are on the table." And when you say "all options are on the table" you are licensing President Bush. When -- and I am the only one on this stage who not only voted against the war in Iraq, voted against funding the war, but also led the effort against Bush's drive toward war. The problem is that these policies of preemption license a war. Preemption, by virtue of international law is illegal. Our President has already violated international law. The war in Iraq is illegal. Even planning for the war against Iran is illegal.

Tim, we're here in Philadelphia, the birthplace of Democracy. I want to know when this Democratic Congress is going to stand up for the Constitution and hold the President accountable with Article II, Section 4; an impeachment act. I think our Democracy is in peril and unless the Democrats and the Congress stand up for the Constitution, we are going to lose Our Country. We need to challenge him on this war, but we need to challenge him on the core. And the core is that there needs to be a separation of powers -- a balance of powers. Things are out of balance. It's time for us to stand up for the Constitution of the United States. . .< [br />
Russert: Uh -- I want to ask each of you, will you pledge that Iran will not develop a nuclear bomb while you are President. . . .

66:30 Williams: Most experts believe that we are looking at $100 a barrel oil prices, perhaps very soon. Most experts further believe that there are some folks in America who may be paying 50% more for things like heating oil this winter . . .As a Member of the US Senate, are these people doomed to paying more -- to suffering through paying these energy costs. Aside from blue ribbon panels, what can be done right now about what afflicts the United States on this issue of energy? . . .(Directed to Sen. Dodd first)
Russert: Congressman Kucinich?

70:45 Kucinich: Everyone knows that the war against Iraq was about oil. This administration is trying to gain control of Iraq's oil, with the help of Congress. It's time we had a President who stood for the Constitution and international law, and that's exactly what I'll do.

Everyone knows that the saber rattling against Iran is driving up the price of oil. We have to stop the war in Iraq, bring our troops home, end the occupation, have an international security and peacekeeping force that moves in as our troops leave. We have to stop planning for war against Iran. We have to insist that we enforce the Constitution of the United States which this President continues to violate, and again I state that the President and the Vice President should be subject to impeachment, then we can start to get control of our energy policies by rejecting this doctrine of preemption, which is not worthy of --

Williams: Thank you. . .

82:35 Russert: Congressman Kucinich, I want to move to the issue of hedge funds -- hedge funds. Managers of hedge funds. There's a listing in the paper the other day of the top 100 managers of hedge funds. At the top 1.5 billion dollars, number 100 makes 50 million dollars. They pay a tax rate of 16% rather than ordinary income of 31-32%. The Democrats took control of Congress in November of 06. The leader of the Democrats in the Senate, Harry Reid, said "We're not gonna change it this year. Your reaction?

Kucinich: It's one of the reasons the American people are so distressed with the current condition of the Democratic Party. They won't stand up to Wall Street, with more than a trillion dollars of unregulated capital in hedge funds; they won't end the war, as the Party promised to do in the 2006 election; they won't stand up to the insurance companies -- the for profit insurance companies by joining me in a not-for-profit system, so people are asking what's the difference between Democrats and Republicans.

Well Tim, my candidacy which will protect the interests of main street. No privatization of Social Security; make the hedge funds accountable, protect the small investors who are at risk with these public offerings of these hedge funds. My domestic policy subcommittee is looking at this. I was one of the first ones on Capital Hill to look at it. Right now it's all about a redistribution of wealth upwards Tim. The tax system is about redistributing wealth upwards, the healthcare system redistributes the wealth upwards, our energy policies redistribute the wealth upwards. WE have to have a President who is independent enough to be able to stand up to these interest groups and push the Democratic Congress to defend the American people by standing for the end of the war in Iraq; by standing for universal, not-for-profit, healthcare system; by standing for control of these oil companies, which are out of control; and finally by standing for the Constitution. I will say it one more time. It's time for the Democratic Party to take a position on impeachment and for the House of Representatives to move the bill that I've introduced. . .


______________________________________________________________

Note: While I was delighted to see that Kucinich has apparently he has seen the light -- that impeachment of Cheney only is not an unequivocal rejection of the lunacy. Unfortunately, he is still missing the mark on the grounds. He is still missing the with a resolution to start an inquiry, rather that a resolute to immediately move to impeach for turning Americans into torturers; no investigation required. Bushnchcney are openly, even proudly, turning Americans into torturers. They "defend" their crime with the intolerable claim that the Office of the President has the absolute power to do so. This is the simplest and most compelling case. If he sticks to impeachment for lying us into a preemptive attack, I fear that he is failing to sound a call to arms that Americans across the political spectrum will respond to.




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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:26 AM
Response to Original message
1. All the news that our MASTERS see fit to print. Grrrecommended
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Skidmore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 11:36 AM
Response to Original message
2. Gives real meaning to the phrase, "If a tree falls in the forest..."
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:49 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. Real reality is making it tougher on those seeking to make DC reality "real" . . .
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 12:49 PM by pat_k
This particular "tree" was heard by people "out here." There are signs that efforts to confront them with "real reality" are gaining ground. The silence is bring broken. Torture is a topic on the Today show. Time will tell, but there are cracks in the wall of denial.
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AndyTiedye Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:32 PM
Response to Original message
3. Likely Some Heads Will Roll for Letting the Early Version Run At All
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Junkdrawer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 12:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. K&R
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Oak2004 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
6. I wonder sometimes why we even bother looking to corporate media
as purveyors of "truth".

They're not. They report only the news convenient to their agenda to print. And the American public is beginning to tune them out.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 08:20 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. Yep. The MSM is no longer in the business of seeking the truth.
Edited on Wed Oct-31-07 08:20 PM by pat_k
People take the first step on the road to fascism when they buy the notion that there is no objective truth. When all is opinion and "both sides" are valid, fascist fantasies sre invited into the "marketplace of ideas."

Even the "good guys' aid the fascist cause with claims that "nothing is black and white." While "black and white" thinking can be problematic, there is nothing wrong with absolutes. Simple truths and moral principles often present us with black and white choices. There are cases and conclusions that are truly unassailable. (Like the case to remove bushncheney for torture). Unfortunately, many liberals have developed a destructive, knee jerk, rejection of absolutes . . . but that is a whole other topic.

The MSM cannot be viewed as a purveyor of the truth because most outlets are no longer in the business of seeking the truth. In the last couple decades the notion that there is no objective truth (and therefore no truth that needs to be sought) has become pervasive throughout the establishment. As talk radio got "big," we took a giant leap toward fascism.

When you've got media moguls hell-bent on cutting the resources dedicated to delivering their "product," it isn't surprising that they'd follow the "talk radio" model and jump on the "all is opinion" bandwagon. It's such a boon for them. Actually DOING anything to validate or invalidate assertions tends to eat into the profits. Actually verifying qualifications and conclusions of officials or "experts" takes time. It's so much cheaper to hire stenographers to simply quote whatever an official or "expert" has to say. It's so much cheaper to put "amalysts" or taking heads out there to endlessly "debate" their "points of view," no matter how blatantly false or fantastical those "points of view" may be.

It's not all doom and gloom though. There are signs that the vicious downward cycle is turning around. People ARE tuning out. And that can REALLY eat into the profits.

Every day, more people see through the fascist lies and propaganda that the MSM has been parroting. As their sources go down, the parrots are exposed for what they are. Like ex-smokers, some of the most vocal purveyors of the truth these days were once part of the propaganda machine themselves. (Think David Brock). Some of those who have tuned out are tuning in again as they discover shows like Countdown with Keith Olbermann.

When people see the truth they don't go back. Once started, the process is one way. (Which is why fascism rises and falls with generations. Once vanquished, authoritarians tend to remain marginalized until those who "learned their lesson" fade away.) Every tme we identify their bullshit and call them on it, we are helping to drive the turn around.

Even though the apparatus of the media establishment is broken, the press as an institution remains. Outsiders who are doing some real digging are exposing truth and driving the stories into the MSM. And MSM outlets are not all crap. Real journalists have not been completely purged (e.g., McClatchy DC Bureau). Even in the crap being churned out, truth can be found between the lines. Reading articles backwards can be a useful technique. The "official story" may lead, but significant bits can be buried in the last paragraphs. Reality creeps in and challenges the narrative. Read the paragraphs in reverse order and significant bits sometimes stand out, free of the manipulative context.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 01:19 PM
Response to Original message
7. Opps -- just noticed I garbled the note at the end of the OP
With corrections -- and hopefully no new typos:

Note: While I was delighted to see that Kucinich has apparently seen the light -- that impeachment of Cheney only is not an unequivocal rejection of the lunacy. Unfortunately, he is still missing the mark on the grounds. He is still missing the mark with a resolution to start an inquiry, rather that a bill of impeachment for turning Americans into torturers; no investigation required. Bushnchcney are openly, even proudly, turning Americans into torturers. They "defend" their crime with the intolerable claim that the Office of the President has the absolute power to do so. This is the simplest and most compelling case. If he sticks to impeachment for lying us into a preemptive attack, I fear that he is failing to sound a call to arms that Americans across the political spectrum will respond to.
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hootinholler Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
8. I disagree that an investigation isn't required...
Only because joe sixpack doesn't know the facts, and that's the only way I see to get them out there.

-Hoot
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-31-07 04:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. I think a presentation of the facts is needed, rather than an investigation
A lot of the evidence is right out in the open, but it does need to be presented in a national forum
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 12:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. Yes, and no.
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 12:24 PM by pat_k
More than "a lot" is public record. Everything required to charge and declare them torturers is on the record and Members or Congress know it.

Some Members may think it's fine and dandy for the USA to be a war criminal nation that's "tough" on those we arbitrarily label "terrorist," but since the Senate voted 90-9 for McCain's anti-torture amendment, it doesn't look like many are willing to go on the record. Unfortunately, those who claim torture to be intolerable refuse to actually DO the only thing capable forcing the torturers to stop by removing them from power. As long as they refuse to impeach, their claims that torture is intolerable are hollow.

The public has been way ahead of Congress. The assumption that Bush and Cheney do that which we have forbidden is behind the snickers of talking heads. Rendition and torture has made it to the Today show. The assumption that Bush and Cheney are torturing has become fodder for jokes on Leno and Letterman. Since Congress refuses to give the people a way confront and deal with the horrible truth, comedians have stepped in to provide an outlet.

We don't need "education" through hearings. This is not a typical "case." Bushncheney have repeatedly and publicly put forth their indefensible defense. All that remains it to object. There nothing to "debate"-- only choices to be made. As I point out in http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2174847&mesg_id=2183085">this reply:, a single charge of torture is enough to force Members to declare themselves on behalf of the American people -- Are we with the torturers or against them?
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Poiuyt Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 05:04 PM
Response to Reply #13
14. I agree absolutely
And torture isn't the only impeachable crime that they've committed. There is a long list of abuses of power that they've even bragged about. And a little talked about offense when they moved $700 million dollars that had been appropriated for Afghanistan and used it in Iraq (before Congress had given their OK to invade Iraq). Many more. It would be easy to present the case. All it takes is backbone.
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 07:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. More is not always better. One charge -- torture -- forces the stark choice.
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 07:49 PM by pat_k
Impeachment is a defensive action. The aim is to stop the destruction by removing the power to destroy. It is akin to pulling over a reckless driver to protect the public.

Bushncheney are drunk with power. Torture is more than sufficient "probable cause" to "pull them over" (i.e., remove from office). Removal is not punishment; it is not retribution. It simply removes the threat. Justice demands criminal prosecution and punishment, but that is for the courts -- here and at The Hague -- not Congress.

If we are to minimize the damage, we must pursue the shortest path to removal. "Keep it simple" needs to be our litany. Boil it down to the essence. Present the documents and statements that capture the essence. Stick to the undeniable facts -- like the fact that the Hamdan ruling is a declaration that bushnchceney had been ordering Americans to commit war crimes for three years. Like murder, once a war crime is committed, there is no "unringing" the bell. "I believed my crime wasn't a crime" is not a defense.

Perhaps ironically, it is their fear of prosecution for war crimes, consciousness of guilt, and transparent attempts to immunize themselves that led them to issue the damming "clarifications" and orders that make the charge of torture the simplest and most indefensible.

If the specific charges and proofs they go with do not lead to removal, there is nothing to stop the House from voting out another bill. Lessons learned from "round one" could enhance the chances of removal in "round two."

More charges lengthens the road to removal. Piling on charges and questions can also give the fascists more opportunities to distract and obscure the simple truth. As you point out, many of those crimes have been committed in plain sight. Congress can certainly pull together the proofs and do some digging in parallel with impeachment, but any efforts get anything bushncheney don't want them to have will be stymied as long as they hold power.

Limiting the bill of impeachment to one or two articles is not "letting them off the hook" for their other crimes. They have invoked their fascist fantasy of unitary authoritarian power as a "defense" for a number of those crimes -- and each time invoke the defense, they demonstrate consciousness of guilt. When we condemn torture and reject their "defense" we are in fact issuing a blanket condemnation of all the crimes they "defend" by claiming "unitary" authority (or for MASH fans, the "someone said we could have this" defense).
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 11:23 AM
Response to Reply #8
12. bushncheney openly & proudly tell us they torture.. . .
Edited on Thu Nov-01-07 11:39 AM by pat_k
. . .They have done it in executive orders. They have done it in signing statements. They have done it in public forums. They have repeatedly put forth their indefensible "defense" (the intolerable claim that the Office of the President has the absolute power to torture.)

All that remains is to uneqivocally say "NO! Torture is intolerable. We unequivocally reject your "defense."

Nothing short of impeachment can do it. Charge/Impeach, put the damning documents and video before the House and the American people, and put it to a vote. Call on the Members to object or be complicit.

A single charge of torture is all that's necessary to force Members of the House and Senate to Choose:
  • Say No to Waterboarding (or as Cheney publicly labels it, "dunking"); or
    Declare the USA an outlaw, war criminal nation.

  • Say No to rule by signing statement; or
    Declare Congress -- the voice of the People -- powerless.

  • Reject the intolerable claim to absolute power;; or
    Declare the President, not the people, sovereign;

  • Say No to kidnapping, secretly and indefinitely holding, and torturing anyone the Office of the President arbitarily labels "enemy combatant;; or
    Declare yourself an accomplice in the conspiracy to violate U.S Code Sec. 2441 -- War Crimes.

  • Stand for American Principle; or
    Stand for Facist Principle.
It really is this simple.

Sure, they can hold a hearing, but if they want to be effective champions of the People's Government and the Constitution, they must be clear that the hearing is NOT an "inquiry." The case is made and proven in the public record. The "other side" has already repeatedly and publicly put forth their Un-American "defense." We are far beyong the need to "reserve judgment" and the DC establishment knows it.1

If the blowhards pile on unnecessary complexity and lesser charges that bury the simple truth and moral principles, we need to say "Stop it!" It's simple. Keep it simple!" If they legitimize the fascist fantasy of unitary authoritarian power by bringing in "experts" to "debate" we must to tell them they are doing nothing but serving the fascist message that this is too complex for the likes of ordinary Americans. Leave it to the "professionals." Go back to bed America.

When the leadership recognizes that EVERYTHING is hostage to the bushnchcney regime and that impeachment is the ONLY option, they probably will try to take the "moderate" path of calling for "an investigation," but truth tellers need to call "Bullshit! A call for investigation says "We don't have enough to conclude they are guilty." That is a lie.

Ultimately, Members of the House and Senate will do what they do. Our job is to push them to do the right thing.

As long as Congress allows bushncheney to violate the laws they pass and render them powerless on any issue, there is no point in discussing what they "should" do. It is long past time to accuse and declare them guilty as charged. It is long past time to demand an answer to the questions that define this nation -- and to do it at every press conference, public event, and interview. It is long past time to introduce and seek co-sponsors for bill of impeachment against Bush & Cheney for torture.

Any "step in the right direction" is better than nothing, but we cannot be satisfied with anything short of a clear and simple bill of impeachment against BOTH Bush and Cheney. Only a "direct proposition to impeach "is a matter of "high privilege" that requires the immediate action that our current crises calls for.2

________________________________________________________

  1. Rep. Jame Harman, not exactly a maverick, on Countdown w/Keith Olbermann, 9/25 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20993592/">transcript):

    Harman:. . .What‘s broken is the view of executive power that some hold in the administration. They claim it trumps all laws and our Constitution. And I can‘t believe that anyone around here would be so short-sighted as to buy that. . .,

  2. From Jefferson's Manual SEC. LIII.—IMPEACHMENT.
    "A direct proposition to impeach is a question of high privilege in the House and at once supersedes business otherwise in order under the rules governing the order of business. . . It may not even be superseded by an election case, which is also a matter of high privilege."

    "A resolution simply proposing an investigation, even though impeachment may be a possible consequence, is not privileged.

    While there are "various methods of setting an impeachment in motion" a "direct proposition" is made "by charges made on the floor on the responsibility of a Member or Delegate"

    From IMPEACHMENT: Selected Materials:
    p. 769 (Section 468)
    A member submitting a privileged resolution, memorial or motion proposing impeachment is entitled to recognition for one hour in which to debate it. A member recognized to present a privileged resolution may not be taken from the floor by a motion to refer.

    pp. 770-71 (Section 470).
    In order to secure this privilege of debate, however, the proposal must be put in writing and submitted to the Clerk of the House.

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Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Nov-01-07 02:25 AM
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11. K&R&Impeach
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