Can we please draw a line between calling out hypocrisy and ridiculing other people's sexuality?

I know this has been discussed here many times but it never seems to resolve itself. It seems that people think it's fair game to mock homosexuality, bdsm, cross dressing, etc under the cover of 'calling out Republican hypocrisy'.

Please just stop. This is supposed to be a progressive board. By all means call out the hypocrisy but stop making jokes about the actual things that fall outside of heterosexual vanilla. It's inconsiderate and makes the 'hypocrisy' angle seem like little more than an excuse.

How about, 'LOL he's a hypocrite' NOT 'LOL he's gay'? Okay? Please?

Surely there are other ways to insult Republicans than to do this.

This demeans the GLBT people here at DU. I cringe every time I see it here.

This is a progressive message board. I like to think we're better than this.

I was just taunted that I stood alone regarding this. It gets tiresome.

Period.

Edit: K&R

You were a class act on that thread.

Alyce

then it would be a rule.

Far too often, the attitude is that anything bad can be made worse by adding "gay" into the mix: "Oh, by the way, Hitler was gay." :puke:

Of course you don't want to do that, because it would expose you as being full of shit since no one did any such thing as you claim in post you are actually discussing.

In case anyone is wondering, the OP was "offended" by this comment:

"That article btw is HILARIOUS, the women's clothing, red stockings stuff....Lol!

The self-hating GOP gay men, total hypocrites....they bash gays, they vote against anything that would let gays have equal rights with everyone else....and yet in secret they're having sex with other men."

In this post:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2174064&mesg_id=2174064

Context is everything.

LOL about a man in women's clothing is NOT the same as LOL at his hypocrisy.

You clearly don't get it. Ask someone else. I have no interest in continuing to argue with you.

Not about the hypocrisy? You clearly don't have much reading comprehension skill:

"That article btw is HILARIOUS, the women's clothing, red stockings stuff....Lol!

The self-hating GOP gay men, total hypocrites....they bash gays, they vote against anything that would let gays have equal rights with everyone else....and yet in secret they're having sex with other men."

I didn't particularly want to drag that flamebait to another thread. It's true, your thread, and the posts of your little cohort, represent the TYPE of thing I'm talking about but I wasn't referring specifically to your thread alone.

I find it unfortunate that you can't see how your choice of words might hurt people or be inconsiderate, especially when you have the inadvertent targets of your 'humor' telling you that it is. Or ignore the fact that the placement of that LOL is directly following the 'women's clothing, red stockings stuff' and not after the gay-bashing bits. It comes off as little more than a flimsy excuse. In fact you spent a great deal of energy in that other thread insisting that men in drag is somehow inherently funny.

:rofl: PKB.

nevermind.

Here, post # 67....YOU post a Homophobic cartoon MAKING FUN OF GAYS....it was YOU that was gay-bashing and making fun of gays....NOT Beetwasher or myself:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064#2174625

For people who can't be bothered clicking on the link:


kineta (1000+ posts) Wed Oct-31-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #55
67. The New Gay Stereotype

Get over yourself and stop telling lies.

It was you who was gay-bashing, as illustrated by the Homophobic cartoon you posted.

What YOU'RE doing is called Deflection, it's you who were gay-bashing and making fun of gays, and you're trying to Deflect that onto someone else who WASN'T gay-bashing or making fun of gays.

No I didn't. Your friend did. So why start this all over again? At one point you stated that you didn't mean to offend anyone but then you went on an unapologetic spree. You never explained what you find so funny about men in drag when it's a sexual kink, btw. Oh yeah, it's the beards - I think that's what you said.

YEAH IT'S THE BEARDS.

Get over it and stop being so obsessive, you're getting creepy.

On Edit: My support of gay rights is UNIMPEACHABLE, I have NOTHING to prove to you.

Apart from asserting that it IS funny, you never answered that question.

Do you forget already?

You were LOOKING and DETERMINED for a fight in the original thread from the get-go, the first sign was your obsessing and whining about the word "BUSTED" being used in the OP, remember....then when NOBODY agreed with you that "Busted" was slamming gays....you then decided to just go the whole hog and start accusing people of being "intolerant", "biased", you then reached near hysteria proportions when you called me and I might add Beetwasher "rednecks" and FALSELY accused us of telling "queer jokes"

It begins from your post # 5, where you get your pants in a twist about the word "BUSTED" being used, it then carries on, until you hit RIDICULOUS levels with the "rednecks telling queer jokes" LIE which is post # 69....but people should read the whole thing, then they'd get to know WHAT YOU are:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064


On Edit: Dammit spelling error

Which I stand by.

To yourself because hardly ANYONE was agreeing with your silliness in the other thread.

Oh go on, go whining now and demand that my post here is deleted, while also demanding that YOUR calling me names posts are allowed to stand.

:thumbsdown:

So unless I get a better idea of where you're coming from, I don't care what you think.

I'm putting a certain person on Ignore.

And thank you for pointing out to others that I am new here (a "certain person" appears to be a master of the obvious). Although I may be a neophyte DU'er, that fact, alone, should not disqualify my opinions.

Apologize for appearing not very polite there.

What I should have said, I've been here for years, and you're new, so maybe we should wait some until you decide to slap me upside the head....what you'll find, is that 98% of the time I'm polite and courteous and friendly, and I do have a sense of humor....but you know, it's my right I believe to DEFEND myself against unwarranted attacks.

Oh and welcome to DU, I'm sure you'll have a fab time....and will contribute immensely.

As I stated, I'm ignoring a certain person....then again rather a number of people here also have that person on Ignore.

I suppose I should not have stepped into a flame-war, and for that, I apologize...I may have misunderstood your intention or your position.

Thank you for the kind welcome and I hope to chat with you again.:hi:

I genuinely am sorry for my comments to you....I was already wound-up obviously, and you didn't deserve to get caught in the cross fire....that was very bad-mannered of me.

So yeah, welcome to DU again and I hope to chat with you again too :hi:

.

I know " ...of J.Temperance", I also am a Gay person. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Something about calling out, and/or responding in a new thread when you could have responded in the old one.

Avoiding a lock is good.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064

You'll also see that about TWO people out of a TON of people even agreed with Kineta, especially after she began the slurring and name-calling.


On Edit: Fixed link

I've re-posted in below, in it's entirety and included the link to your post from the other thread.

I linked to the Tom Tomorrow cartoon about Republican hypocricy that was on Salon.

Care to explain how it was homophobic?

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

In case no doubt, you start whining and ranting that they're Homophobic or something.

I notice none of your ugly little attacks in this below thread got deleted:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064

But watch MY post here WILL get deleted because you'll go whining to them to delete it.

Nobody agreed with you in the above thread, why? Because they saw through your fake shit that's why and they saw that nobody was making fun of gays....except you with your Homophobic cartoon.


On Edit: Dammit spelling error

As you are doing now. Look it up.

"How about, 'LOL he's a hypocrite' NOT 'LOL he's gay'? Okay? Please?"

NOBODY EVER posted "LOL he's gay"

But as you're one of Kineta's little fan club, then I suppose it's okay that he can just post stuff WILDLY out of context huh?

You know something, he's got a bee in his bonnet, he's protesting WAY TOO MUCH, why? Well probably because it's him that's the intolerant one and he's doing this song and dance here to give himself cover....it's called DEFLECTION....accusing someone ELSE of being what YOU are and/or accusing someone else of DOING what you're doing.


On Edit: Dammit spelling error

the stripe of Heterosexual Rocky Road? not vanilla.

No matter who's eating it.

If it were ever found out that Madeline Murray O'Hare actually went to church on Sundays to contritely and sincerely ask for repentance, I would end up laughing my butt off-- because of what she represented versus the diametrically opposed private life she led.

And if people started ridiculing her for praying, I'd be at the front of the line. And if people started ridiculing her for being a hypocrite, I'd be at the front of that line, too.

I wouldn't take umbrage at anyone who started joking about prayer, because in this context it's not the actual prayer we're laughing at, but the person doing it.

She would for all intents and purposes, become fair game.

I would accept both "LOL-- she's a hypocrite" AND "LOL- she's praying" as funny.



BUT... having said all that, I will personally make it a point to tread a bit more carefully and a bit more lightly in those threads. My intention has never been to make fun of a lifestyle-- just the person (although, at the end of the day, they're both just as uncivil and as wrong as the other-- but the GOP makes it too darn easy sometimes...)

:hugs:

I'd argue that traditionally, prayer hasn't been used as an object of ridicule. So that example isn't as likely to be as emotionally loaded. Whereas sexuality has been routinely used as a mechanism of shame. It almost seems like a natural human instinct to try and shame non-conformity, to make oneself feel safely part of a majority. Herd instinct at it's basest level.

So even here at DU it sometimes becomes difficult to tell where the call out against hypocrisy stops and base indulgence in social shaming begins. Does that make sense?

I think that unless a person is sensitive to the issue they can easily use words that are hurtful, without really meaning to. I think that's the case more often than actual homophobia or intolerance. Just thoughtlessness. But it needs to be called out so we can stop doing it.

Here, facial hair, wearing womens clothing and red stockings....98% of people would find the thought of that funny....you don't like it, tough, it means YOU'VE got the ISSUES here, maybe you need to talk to someone about why you're so humorless and SERIOUS.

If you want to defend a self-hating gay Republican, then that's YOUR business, I can't help it if you feel the need to defend hypocritical Republicans can I?

If the twit DIDN'T have facial hair, then it WOULDN'T be FUNNY, I've already pointed that out at least four times already:




http://www.columbian.com/news/localNews/2007/10/10302007_Police-report-sheds-new-light-on-Curtis-encounter.cfm


On Edit: Fixed article link

This so-called progressive board is frighteningly narrow-minded sometimes.

...and it's just as unimportant as what they say, too.

Ignore 'em. If they lose their audience they'll crawl back into their navels where they belong.

:shrug:

And it becomes our duty to speak up.

Some people need to be reminded that if they want a culture that's tolerant of their own differences, their religion or lack of, their sexuality, they need to afford it to everyone else.

The 'moral majority' was a good example - they were simply loud-mouthed bigots, delusional that they were some sort of majority. Or particularly moral for that matter.

Sometimes people simply don't know, they don't mean to be offensive and if they are at all thoughtful they will consider changing how they express themselves when it's brought to their attention. I'm optimistic that that's the majority of cases.

That is something I have no interest in doing.

.

:popcorn:

I'm making assumptions. Being a Democrat and being a Progressive aren't the same thing necessarily.

Do you think a person can be, say, openly homophobic and also a Democrat or is that not part of the party platform?

and some are turds.

Can turds be educated?



(haven't been in the threads you're referring to -- just know that all sorts of sex wars are popular and flamey)

I just went to my company's mandatory annual 'anti-harassment' session and came away with the lesson that silence perpetuates the problem. Stupid me for applying that to the interweb ;-)

:hi:

"Do you think a person can be, say, openly homophobic and also a Democrat or is that not part of the party platform?"

If so, post examples of how I'm "Homophobic".


If not WHAT or WHOM are you referring to?


Are you a Barack Obama supporter by any chance?


On Edit: Added comment

And I haven't gone whining to the Moderators like you obviously have DEMANDING that your name calling and personal attacks on me get deleted from the ORIGINAL thread that set you off on this UGLY obsession of yours:

The original thread, maybe your blind fan club in this thread might like to read the ORIGINAL thread, considering you're portraying yourself as some Goody-Two-Shoes here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064

It isn't.

This other thread:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2174064


Because only like what, TWO people agreed with your absurdities in the other thread, you had to start this new thread....TOTALLY out of context....to try in desparation to get more than TWO people to agree with you.

Oh and in the other thread at least ONE person told you to quote "Get a grip", it's post # 94, but I see you went whining and it got deleted.

So someone tells you to "Get a grip" and it gets deleted....but you call me a "Redneck" post # 69 and your post is just A-OK....My Oh My, you must feel SO PROUD of yourself!

and actually I didn't call you a redneck, nor did I alert that post.

Now you've littered this thread with personal abuse and crazy teen angst fantasies about group consensus and weird non-sequiturs about Barack Obama. It's evident that you have some serious problems. Either you are drunk and it will wear off or you are thirteen years old and you'll eventually grow up or you are simply psychotic. Either way, I'm through with you.

"Now you've littered this thread with personal abuse"


I believe I called you a Drama Queen, which is hardly "littering" the thread with "personal abuse"


I mean WHAT'S calling someone a Drama Queen to your list of personal abuse, which you've just added to, let's have a new recap shall we of the personal insults you've hurled at me across TWO threads now:

"Intolerant"...."Redneck"...."Drunk"...."Psychotic"....oh not forgetting your numerous veiled attempts to label me a Homophobe.


But yeah Drama Queen is so much WORSE than that ugly little list isn't it?


Gosh I'm through with you as well, it's perfectly obvious that you're an expert at twisting things and Deflection, at least the majority of people in the other thread immediately saw through your nonsense.


On Edit: Added word

We need to show more respect for one another. Thanks for posting this.