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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:23 PM Original message |
Why I have mixed feeling about the Phelp's verdict |
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terrya (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:25 PM Response to Original message |
1. I see it as harassment, pure and simple. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:27 PM Response to Reply #1 |
2. That is correct |
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bryant69 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:29 PM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Does putting burning crosses on a lawn count as free speech? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:34 PM Response to Reply #4 |
10. Phelps issued threats? |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:01 PM Response to Reply #10 |
86. The FAILURE to distinguish a person's right to speak against government and a person's right,... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:12 AM Response to Reply #86 |
119. Your interpretation pretty much strips all the |
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ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:31 AM Response to Reply #119 |
134. The Supreme Court Grants Nothing |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:33 AM Response to Reply #134 |
154. So if the right isn't expressly listed in the constitution |
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ProfessorGAC (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:57 AM Response to Reply #154 |
171. That's The OPPOSITE Of What I Said |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:06 PM Response to Reply #171 |
202. What was the slander "professor" |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:46 PM Response to Reply #171 |
225. Ah, he's doing this to you too. |
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Common Sense Party (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 02:03 PM Response to Reply #119 |
247. Rights come from 9 judges? |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:30 PM Response to Reply #2 |
6. It's not a First Amendment issue |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:31 PM Response to Reply #6 |
7. So it's OK for cosmetic companies to sue |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
11. Under what circumstances? |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:35 PM Response to Reply #7 |
12. Excuse me? Cosmetic companies and logging companies have done so, right? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:38 PM Response to Reply #12 |
17. So you support those lawsuits? |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:42 PM Response to Reply #17 |
23. Sir, are you literate? I specifically wrote that I don't support with those lawsuits. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:21 PM Response to Reply #23 |
40. You know |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:37 PM Response to Reply #40 |
50. Because you choose not to read plain English perhaps? |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:23 PM Response to Reply #50 |
78. "would constitute cruelty against the rhetorically invalid." |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:14 AM Response to Reply #50 |
120. I see the problem |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:46 AM Response to Reply #120 |
126. If you knew the situation, you should have said so. |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:55 AM Response to Reply #126 |
139. He's painted himself into a corner... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:29 AM Response to Reply #139 |
152. LOL! |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #152 |
165. Snark in lieu of discussion or rebuttal. I'm neither impressed nor surprised. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:28 AM Response to Reply #126 |
151. Well I guess we will live with your original assertion |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:08 AM Response to Reply #151 |
177. I'll lay it out again then. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:07 PM Response to Reply #177 |
203. Again you are mixing up the act of suing with the verdict |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 01:00 PM Response to Reply #203 |
218. How would you control that, sir? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 01:46 PM Response to Reply #218 |
219. Make the appropriate laws |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:22 PM Response to Reply #219 |
220. Baloney. That's a complete contradiction. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:35 PM Response to Reply #220 |
222. What is the contradiction???? |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:45 PM Response to Reply #222 |
223. If what you say is true, how in good conscience can you allow this to go to juries? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:51 PM Response to Reply #223 |
227. You have twisted this issue beyond recognition |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:39 PM Response to Reply #7 |
18. I don't see that as a valid arguement. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:30 AM Response to Reply #18 |
153. Did Phelps trespass? Did they make a false claim? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:42 AM Response to Reply #153 |
197. Yes, actually. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:45 PM Response to Reply #197 |
215. Specifics please? |
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gilpo (601 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:41 PM Response to Reply #7 |
21. Corporations can't sue for personal harm... they aren't people. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:22 PM Response to Reply #21 |
43. Corperations can sue for financial loss |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:25 PM Original message |
What did the beef producers do to Oprah Winfrey? |
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Whisp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:37 PM Response to Reply #21 |
49. ever see The Corporation? yes, they are 'people' - insane ones. nt |
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qdemn7 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:11 PM Response to Reply #21 |
91. Corporations ARE considered people, unfortunately |
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Goblinmonger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 11:52 AM Response to Reply #7 |
244. If the protestors commit a tort against the company |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:35 PM Response to Reply #6 |
47. Why is it not a first amendment issue? |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:49 PM Response to Reply #47 |
65. To be honest, I haven't been able to look at the details of the case at all. |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:50 PM Response to Reply #47 |
66. Easy answer |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:11 PM Response to Reply #66 |
73. They protest on public sidewalks |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 07:10 PM Response to Reply #73 |
80. Do you protest private funerals? |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 09:51 PM Response to Reply #80 |
84. Which part of public sidewalk are you having trouble understanding? |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:26 PM Response to Reply #84 |
98. I see |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 11:31 PM Response to Reply #98 |
104. This hits close to home for me; Phelps is an hour away |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:08 PM Response to Reply #104 |
204. I understand |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:33 AM Response to Reply #84 |
135. You can very easily commit verbal tort claims in public spaces. This isn't exactly new law. |
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MiniMe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:44 PM Response to Reply #47 |
101. You can't yell "fire" in a theater, that is not protected speech |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 11:36 PM Response to Reply #101 |
105. Is Phelps yelling fire? |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:45 AM Response to Reply #105 |
115. No, but he did defame this family. |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:58 AM Response to Reply #115 |
130. It wasn't a defamation suit |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:07 AM Response to Reply #130 |
145. Very important points. |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:30 PM Response to Reply #130 |
231. WTF does it mean, intentional infliction of emotional distress? |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 11:24 AM Response to Reply #231 |
242. Nope |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 11:29 AM Response to Reply #47 |
243. It's not a First Amendment issue because |
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H2O Man (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:54 PM Response to Reply #6 |
69. It's both. |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:34 AM Response to Reply #69 |
155. Thank you |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:13 PM Response to Reply #6 |
92. When speech costs money, it isn't free anymore |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:17 AM Response to Reply #92 |
122. Excellent point |
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Lone_Star_Dem (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:30 AM Response to Reply #122 |
124. Over simplified |
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redwitch (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:46 AM Response to Reply #2 |
127. Right to privacy at a loved one's funeral a whole 'nother deal. |
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Dorian Gray (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #1 |
62. Agree |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:55 PM Response to Reply #62 |
234. Is being emotionally distressed really worth millions? |
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Prophet 451 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:27 PM Response to Reply #234 |
238. Normally, no |
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DS1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:27 PM Response to Original message |
3. God handed down that verdict |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:29 PM Response to Original message |
5. The next question is when does free speech become harassment? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:33 PM Response to Reply #5 |
9. Can the KKK sue for mental distress |
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madinmaryland (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:36 PM Response to Reply #9 |
15. I don't believe those are valid comparisons |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:41 PM Response to Reply #15 |
22. So if the KKK have a meeting at a private hall |
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KittyWampus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:46 PM Response to Reply #22 |
63. actually, yes. the KKK does in fact have the right to hold their secret ceremonies in a private hall |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 02:59 PM Response to Reply #9 |
248. I can't emphasize strongly enough |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:32 PM Response to Original message |
8. Public speech, you say. At a funeral? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:36 PM Response to Reply #8 |
14. Are they in the church or on public lands outside the church |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:40 PM Response to Reply #14 |
19. Are you suggesting that Phelps was NOT picketing funerals? |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:36 PM Response to Reply #8 |
48. They aren't AT the funeral |
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MissB (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:36 PM Response to Original message |
13. I liken it to the work that the Southern Poverty Law Center has done. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:37 PM Response to Reply #13 |
16. They sued for violent acts not speech |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:02 AM Response to Reply #16 |
131. Defamation is not protected speech. NT |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:41 AM Response to Reply #131 |
161. What happens when liberal view points are classified as |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:17 PM Response to Reply #161 |
229. If you don't defame someone, you're not guilty of defamation. |
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KingFlorez (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:41 PM Response to Original message |
20. This isn't a free speech issue |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:43 PM Response to Reply #20 |
24. So only the rich will have free speech? |
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KingFlorez (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:46 PM Response to Reply #24 |
26. I never said anything about the rich |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:17 PM Response to Reply #26 |
38. If his protest was on public property where are the grounds |
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KingFlorez (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:51 PM Response to Reply #38 |
68. This is an individual case |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 05:00 PM Response to Reply #38 |
70. Free speech was about people having some say about their government. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:01 PM Response to Reply #70 |
85. The first amendment prohibits the federal legislature from making laws |
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sicksicksick_N_tired (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:04 PM Response to Reply #85 |
87. Oh. Then, you can speak to people and drive them to kill me. When I'm dead, you're free. nt |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:52 AM Response to Reply #87 |
129. That is a completely different situation |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:07 PM Response to Reply #38 |
88. If you slander someone on pubic property it's still slander. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:36 AM Response to Reply #88 |
157. What were the lies Phelps told |
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Telly Savalas (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:27 PM Response to Reply #38 |
99. So if I stand on the public property outside your home at 3 AM shouting obscenities |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:42 AM Response to Reply #26 |
162. You are aware the plantiffs NEVER saw them at the funeral |
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Freddie Stubbs (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:43 PM Response to Original message |
25. I doubt that this verdict will stand on appeal |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:43 AM Response to Reply #25 |
163. Most constitutional scholars and first amendment lawyers agree |
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:49 PM Response to Original message |
27. A littler 1st Amendment primer |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:15 PM Response to Reply #27 |
93. "or any other body of government made no law that restricted Phelps' speech" |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:39 AM Response to Reply #93 |
137. Free speech is not, and never has been, absolute. Slander, defamation, threats |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:53 AM Response to Reply #27 |
169. Should I listen to your "primer" or should I listen |
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AngryAmish (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:03 AM Response to Reply #169 |
175. In this case, me |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:24 AM Response to Reply #175 |
186. I stick with the Supreme Court Justice |
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Nutmegger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:50 PM Response to Original message |
28. I stand against this decision. |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:59 PM Response to Reply #28 |
30. See post 29...and also have a spare set of asbestos skivvies ready. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:14 PM Response to Reply #28 |
35. BRAVO!!! |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:31 PM Response to Reply #28 |
46. Cool. I've raised this question in several other threads. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:13 PM Response to Reply #46 |
74. The ACLU is already involved in a challenge of the MO no protest law |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 09:29 PM Response to Reply #74 |
82. Not surprised. Thanks, p2Bl. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:25 AM Response to Reply #74 |
187. Of course the ACLU is about protecting our civil liberties |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:18 AM Response to Reply #46 |
123. It can be used against any protestor |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:07 PM Response to Reply #123 |
235. Exactly. Because whatever it is someone is protesting, somebody |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:17 PM Response to Reply #28 |
94. I agree that the decision is bad |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 03:56 PM Response to Original message |
29. You will discover that a lot of DUers give lip service to the Bill of Rights |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:12 PM Response to Reply #29 |
33. I am not surprised |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:39 PM Response to Reply #33 |
52. Don't like people having. That's it. There's a lot of "fuck you, I got mine" even among |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:48 AM Response to Reply #52 |
166. Exactly |
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DinahMoeHum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:01 PM Response to Original message |
31. Speech is free. Consequences are not. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:16 PM Response to Reply #31 |
37. Didn't I hear that same line during the Dixie Chicks incident??? |
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DinahMoeHum (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:55 AM Response to Reply #37 |
140. Just goes to show - the axe swings both ways. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:26 AM Response to Reply #140 |
188. Few people want to see that though |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:18 PM Response to Reply #31 |
95. If the consequences are government-imposed then speech isn't free any more |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:38 PM Response to Reply #95 |
100. You mean like how slander rulings are government imposed? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:23 PM Response to Reply #100 |
211. Where was the slander in this case? |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:12 PM Response to Original message |
32. Just as a side note |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:13 PM Response to Reply #32 |
34. I studied the case in college |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:21 PM Response to Reply #34 |
41. Oh sorry |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:25 PM Response to Reply #41 |
45. Missed a class or two? |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:40 PM Response to Reply #45 |
56. You obviously know nothing about the case |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:16 PM Response to Reply #56 |
75. Thank you for this |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:21 PM Response to Reply #56 |
96. One of the better smack-downs I've seen in a while. Better because it's all fact. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:25 AM Response to Reply #56 |
150. Here are the FACTS the lawyers don't want people to know |
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tkmorris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:42 PM Response to Reply #45 |
59. Edited |
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Pithlet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:30 PM Response to Reply #45 |
239. I've spilled coffee in my lap. It didn't cause 3rd degree burns. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:40 PM Response to Reply #34 |
55. Deleted message |
tkmorris (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:41 PM Response to Reply #34 |
58. I disagree emphatically |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:28 AM Response to Reply #58 |
189. Coffee is inherently hot |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:14 PM Response to Reply #189 |
205. No not really |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:19 PM Response to Reply #205 |
208. That would be an incorrect and a misleading analogy |
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karlrschneider (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:42 PM Response to Reply #32 |
60. deleted |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:47 PM Response to Reply #60 |
64. Actually the "ambulance chaser" |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:31 AM Response to Reply #64 |
107. Lawyers get rich off of hard working people |
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michaelwb (285 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:32 AM Response to Reply #107 |
113. No. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:47 AM Response to Reply #107 |
116. It's like you are purposefully misrepresenting the facts of the case. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:58 AM Response to Reply #116 |
172. Trial Lawyers of course- They have billions of reasons to |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:26 AM Response to Reply #107 |
132. Good luck ever suing anyone without contingency fees. You want no civil courts? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:07 AM Response to Reply #132 |
176. What I want to see is the end of frivilious and fraudulant |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:37 AM Response to Reply #107 |
136. Wow, pro big corporation, anti civil suit, anti consumer protection and all wrapped |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:46 AM Response to Reply #136 |
164. So it's liberal to support rich trial lawyers getting rich off the |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:14 AM Response to Reply #164 |
180. It's liberal to support the right of ordinasry people to sue megacorporations. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:19 AM Response to Reply #180 |
182. It's the liberal that protects the American public from |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:41 AM Response to Reply #182 |
196. You're arguing in favor of McDonalds and against trial lawyers and |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:03 PM Response to Reply #196 |
199. Nice try |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:32 AM Response to Reply #64 |
193. That's not true, it's incorrect |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:20 PM Response to Reply #193 |
209. You are right |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:22 PM Response to Reply #209 |
210. Wow that's a classic right wing tactic |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:34 PM Response to Reply #210 |
212. It's your opinion, it can't be wrong |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:41 PM Response to Reply #212 |
214. Some inconsistencies |
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truebrit71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:15 PM Response to Original message |
36. I have no such quandry...Screw Phelps and the rest of his psycho nutjobs... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:19 PM Response to Reply #36 |
39. So if some right wing nut job sues war protestors |
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truebrit71 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:41 AM Response to Reply #39 |
125. Nope, I'm saying that if some right-wing nutjob were to show up at my child's funeral.. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:21 PM Response to Original message |
42. As a very active member of a protest group just 70 miles away from Phelps, |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:22 PM Response to Reply #42 |
44. Thank God! |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:39 PM Response to Reply #44 |
53. I've posted about my qualms with this decision in several threads. |
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Nutmegger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:39 PM Response to Reply #42 |
54. Hello proud2Blib. |
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proud2BlibKansan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:18 PM Response to Reply #54 |
76. Hey Nutmegger!! |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:10 PM Response to Reply #42 |
90. Not a First Amendment issue. The government did not infringe on his right to free speech - |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:26 PM Response to Reply #90 |
97. I would LOVE to see the specific words he used to slander. |
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Contrary1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:44 PM Response to Reply #97 |
102. You can read the complaint here: |
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Kingshakabobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:54 PM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Thanks. Just read it....... |
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Stop Cornyn (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:38 PM Response to Original message |
51. Free speech is not unlimited. You are NOT free to stand outside the window and scream obscenities |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:42 PM Response to Reply #51 |
232. My advise to you all out there. Don't put coffee in between your |
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Whisp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:40 PM Response to Original message |
57. i'm glad you brought this up. |
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immoderate (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:45 PM Response to Reply #57 |
61. Phelps is the perfect stalking horse -- nobody likes him. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:38 AM Response to Reply #61 |
111. You got it guys |
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Contrary1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 04:51 PM Response to Original message |
67. The lawsuit was for "invasion of privacy and intentional infliction of emotional distress". |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:51 PM Response to Reply #67 |
79. Your post needs an "ATTENTION POSTERS! THE CASE WAS ABOUT.." kind of subject line.... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:26 AM Response to Reply #79 |
112. As I understand the verdict was rendered |
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A HERETIC I AM (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:52 AM Response to Reply #112 |
117. Both, apparently. Invasion of privacy and emotional distress that resulted from the defamation |
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Tejanocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 05:29 PM Response to Original message |
71. Your misinformed blather about the McDonald's coffee case ended your credibility in my eyes. |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 09:44 PM Response to Reply #71 |
83. Same here. He's proven himself to be biased and poorly informed, at BEST. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:03 AM Response to Reply #83 |
174. Deleted message |
NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:36 AM Response to Reply #71 |
110. LOL! |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:52 AM Response to Reply #110 |
138. I notice you've AVOIDED replying to the post containing the FACTS about that case... |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:57 AM Response to Reply #138 |
141. Since the McDonalds' quality assurance manager testified that the coffee, |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:00 AM Response to Reply #141 |
143. Someone might. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:20 AM Response to Reply #143 |
183. Deleted message |
Tejanocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:10 AM Response to Reply #141 |
146. Someone did. That "someone" was the jury. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:11 AM Response to Reply #146 |
147. Correct. I should have said "Anyone". Anyone except a RW schill who doesn't give a shit |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:01 AM Response to Reply #141 |
173. Yeah better people drink cold coffee |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:12 AM Response to Reply #173 |
179. Strawman. McDonald's was serving the coffee far hotter than is standard, |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:17 AM Response to Reply #179 |
181. That's the MYTH perpatrated by Trial Lawyers |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:36 AM Response to Reply #179 |
195. What standard was that?!?!?!? IT was the standard |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:45 PM Response to Reply #179 |
233. I like my coffee hot. I like my tea hot. And when I go out, I usually |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:55 AM Response to Reply #138 |
170. Your "facts" are selective and misleading |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:10 AM Response to Reply #170 |
178. The horse you're beating has been dead for YEARS. |
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Name removed (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:22 AM Response to Reply #178 |
185. Deleted message |
NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:30 AM Response to Reply #138 |
191. The FACTS like this one |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:33 AM Response to Reply #71 |
194. Really too hot?!?! |
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ecstatic (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:10 PM Response to Original message |
72. I think in this case, common sense prevailed |
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Jacobin (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 06:19 PM Response to Original message |
77. Because you are a thinking person |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:35 AM Response to Reply #77 |
109. NIce to hear from another person with brains and wisdom |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:49 AM Response to Reply #109 |
128. Defamation isn't a new tort - it's not a new precedent. Phelps crossed the line. |
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11 Bravo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 07:34 PM Response to Original message |
81. I am something of a First Amendment absolutist ... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:34 AM Response to Reply #81 |
108. LOL! |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Thu Nov-01-07 10:08 PM Response to Original message |
89. Your igorance of the McDonalds Coffee case presage your ignorance of the First Amendment. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 06:27 AM Response to Reply #89 |
106. Thank you for taking time from your MENSA meeting |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 07:44 AM Response to Reply #106 |
114. Doubtful. You don't need to be a MENSA member to bother to know what you're talking |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:10 AM Response to Reply #114 |
118. Sorry if I don't think Trial lawyers should get rich |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 08:17 AM Response to Reply #118 |
121. What you've shown is that you have no idea about the facts of the case, other |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:18 AM Response to Reply #121 |
148. As opposed to the Rush Limbaugh style attacks |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:29 AM Response to Reply #118 |
133. How else should the working public sue for wrongs? Represent themselves against corporate law firms? |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:39 AM Response to Reply #133 |
160. And the best part of the flawed system |
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Zynx (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:17 PM Response to Reply #160 |
207. You really have no clue how much litigation costs. Either that or you hate plaintiffs. Real liberal. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:35 PM Response to Reply #207 |
213. I have a clue what it costs, I see it in every insurance bill |
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DefenseLawyer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:50 PM Response to Reply #213 |
216. In the interest of full disclosure |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 01:00 PM Response to Reply #216 |
217. Nope |
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Richard Steele (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 09:58 AM Response to Reply #118 |
142. More recycled far-right-libertarian clichés in lieu of actual discussion and thought. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:51 AM Response to Reply #142 |
168. Doesn't address my arguement |
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yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:06 AM Response to Original message |
144. The first amendment does not cover stalking. What Phelps and his criminal gang does is essentially |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:37 AM Response to Reply #144 |
158. How does his behaviour constitute stalking |
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yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:28 AM Response to Reply #158 |
190. Wikopedia definition of stalking...... |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:31 AM Response to Reply #190 |
192. Not when the key point is REPEATED |
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yellowcanine (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:06 PM Response to Reply #192 |
201. Well I don't know the details but he was disbarred for harrassment. And he |
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CT_Progressive (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:21 AM Response to Original message |
149. OMFG this is not a free speech issue. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:34 AM Response to Reply #149 |
156. If his speech wasn't the crime |
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CT_Progressive (889 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:39 AM Response to Reply #156 |
159. Harassment is the crime. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:49 AM Response to Reply #159 |
167. Again |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:15 PM Response to Reply #167 |
206. Public vs Private property is not relevant to harassment or defamation |
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tuckessee (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:21 AM Response to Original message |
184. I can't wait until they apply the same standard to all protesters. |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:44 AM Response to Reply #184 |
198. Which standard do you think that is? They have the right to protest. They |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 12:04 PM Response to Reply #184 |
200. I am sure most will forget what they said here |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:23 PM Response to Reply #200 |
221. How about different because the facts of the case are different. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:45 PM Response to Reply #221 |
224. The facts remain the same |
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Kagemusha (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:50 PM Response to Reply #224 |
226. That's not a serious argument. |
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NJmaverick (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 02:54 PM Response to Reply #226 |
228. The FACTS are the same |
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SeussTree (46 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 12:31 AM Response to Reply #184 |
240. Already happening to some. |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 03:06 PM Response to Reply #184 |
249. Assuming that Code Pink |
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LisaL (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 10:22 PM Response to Original message |
230. I don't have any mixed feelings about this. I disagree with this |
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mondo joe (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:14 PM Response to Reply #230 |
236. I don't mind if anyone who crosses the line from protest to harassment and defamation |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 03:13 PM Response to Reply #230 |
251. Unless they commit an actionable tort in the process, |
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Prophet 451 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Fri Nov-02-07 11:22 PM Response to Original message |
237. Based on an unsound arguement |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 11:20 AM Response to Reply #237 |
241. He's lucky |
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Prophet 451 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 01:16 PM Response to Reply #241 |
245. While I cannot condone violence... |
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GrpCaptMandrake (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 01:52 PM Response to Reply #245 |
246. The crocodile tears |
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Lord Helmet (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sat Nov-03-07 03:06 PM Response to Original message |
250. sometimes the only way to get your point across is through your pocketbook |
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