For all of you who despise Hillary Clinton, what will you do if she is the nominee?

I do not see the point in trashing her and giving talking points to Republicans. She is not perfect, but then no one is perfect and every one of the Democratic candidates is a breath of fresh air after the last 7 years.

Please do not derail our Party.

on the off chance one of them might get the nomination? After all, can't give those Republicans talking points, can we?

Can't lose this election to movement conservatives. If you don't understand why, you are beyond redemption.

Always vote for democrat. Right now Dennis is my man.

Trust me, the Republicans already have their talking points ready on every candidate.

It will be short and concise.

As soon as Kerry wrapped up the nomination in early 2004, Bush went on the air and said that Kerry was on both sides of every issue... and, from there, EVERY Republican politician and EVERY RW shill in the media followed suit and labeled Kerry a flip-flopper. He's still thought of as a flip-flopper to this day.

Meanwhile, we had 100 different issues on which to attack Bush. And everybody had their own commercials - MoveOn and other 529s, the DNC, Kerry himself, etc. However, there was never any one clear focused message. They said 100 different things.

will look like Winnie the Pooh's Tea Party compared to what they will do to Hillary Clinton. Swiftboating will be brought to new, unimagined levels. And let us not forget that just because Rove has left the White House, he has not retired.

Hillary has been swiftboated for the last 16 years and is still the frontrunner for the nomination, and is at least tied in national polls with the Republic frontrunners.

Kerry was only swiftboated for a few months.

I seriously doubt they'd use ones coming from here. Being a warmongering corporatist is a GOOD thing to them.

And work VERY HARD to get DEMS elected to Congress. Also, work to get DEM leadership that better represents DEM values in more places.

I'm done voting against my interests.

Opt out of the Democratic party, and probably go Green to some extent or another. Sorry, but there comes a point where you have to realize that voting for the lesser of two evils is still allowing evil to have sway. If Hillary gets the nod(which sad to say, is increasingly looking likely) we will be faced with the non-choice of having two corporate controlled warhawks battling for the White House. Sooner or later one has to stand up and say stop the madness.

how do they nominate their candidate and has anybody even announced they're running for the Green Party yet?

Greens nominate their candidate at a National Convention just like the big two. I believe that the nominating convention will be next July.

I agree and so does he....

http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_john_f___071101_hillary_clinton_3a_a_w.htm

Of all the Democrats running for president, which one is the most mainstream and accommodating to corporate America? Which one has already sucked up to John McCain, Newt Gingrich, and Rupert Murdoch? Which one has a husband who makes the scene with George H.W. Bush every time there’s a natural disaster? Which one has no compunction about shifting her political philosophy to suit her ambitions, beginning as a conservative “Goldwater girl” in high school, to a liberal supporter of George McGovern in college, to a centrist Senator in the current Congress? And which one knows how to play the Machiavellian game of hardball politics in Washington better than anyone?

In other words, Hillary is the safe choice. The corporate elite have dealt with her and her husband for years, and they know they can count on the king and queen of compromise not to push the envelope nor do anything radical to shift the balance of power in the United States to a more populist agenda.

Ironically, many Democrats (especially women) are under the delusion that Hillary is liberal, even progressive, and they think she will right all the wrongs of the Bush regime. But what many of these individuals fail to realize is that on the three most important issues of our time-- health care, the U.S. occupation of Iraq, and renewable energy-- she’s almost as conservative as her Republican presidential opponents. And Obama and Edwards aren’t much better.


<snip>

As a result, Democratic power brokers like Rahm Emanuel will once again use the same old saw to get liberals and progressives to vote for the lesser of two evils: “All right, maybe Hillary isn’t as liberal as you would like, but she is certainly better than her Republican counterpart.”

In other words, forget about voting for a candidate that would actually promote single payer universal health care, withdraw from Iraq within six months, and create a national renewable energy program that would undercut the power of the fossil fuels industry and ameliorate global warming. The best you’re going to get in our corrupt, corporate fascist system is Hillary. So be thankful for her, boys and girls. And remember, a half a loaf of bread is better than no loaf at all.

  Get over yourself. Who died and gave you the crown to make such sweeping generalizations about whose opinion is or is not good for the Democratic party?

PB

And a frontrunner is always subject to intense scrutiny since they are perceived as being closest to taking the position for which they are running.

If Clinton is to represent us as the Democratic Nominee, she needs tough questioning during the race for the Party Nomination if she is to be ready for the 'rough and tumble' Repub treatment she will receive in the General Election. And if that comes to pass, there won't be any other Democratic Candidates waiting in the wings to step in if she gets into serious trouble.

Voting against her is what the primaries are for.

I don't actually despise her, but I don't like her. However, I would actually love to see her win 100% out of SPITE. I would just love for the Clintons to be back in the White house just to rub republicans faces in it.

Spite rules! Clinton '08!

By the way, I think we can all stipulate that no one is perfect. I wish we would retire that expression. It's a meaningless argument in defense of someone. As for HRC being a breath of fresh air—hah. I see many many ways she represents continuation of the status quo.

The point in raising objections to ANY candidate is to show that voters are not mindless sheep, ready to fall in line behind someone just because they've been annointed our next leader by the powers that be. Fear of derailing a political party is a lousy way to achieve good government.

Funny how such broad brush smears of progressives seem to pollute this forum. :eyes:

"freedom = slavery"

"We have always been at war with the progressives in our own party."

If she's the nominee, I will vote straight down the Democratic ticket, as always. But for president, I'll vote for whoever the Green Party candidate is.

I will never vote for the U.S. to become a banana republic with the presidency passed from father to son, and husband to wife, between two families.

If she is the nominee you HAVE to vote for her. Not voting is a vote for a republican.

Should she be a hands off candidate? Here, on TV, the radio, everybody says people shouldn't "pick" on Hillary when they call out her triangular comments.

Well, I guess some of the Hillary supporters might be saying that, but whatever. These posts keep popping up in response to the "I won't vote at all / vote third party / insert-other-stupid-idea if Hillary gets the nod" postings. No other candidate generates that kind of response.

Those who don't want Hillary as the nominee are now considered to "despise" her? Is that really what HRC supporters think?

Do Edwards supporters believe that Hillary supporters "despise" Edwards? I'd say not.

This isn't helpful.

and we won't have a probLem. easy enough.

I refuse to accept her "inevitability."

The primary/nomination process has become a made-for-TV popularity contest. It's now a year plus long endurance game with endless televised debates and countless "storylines" and "drama" as each candidate bites for the PR and media golden ring...and it flows over to the "internets". Popularity and electioneering mixed with emotions and frustrations to provide lots of fireworks here on DU and other "political junkie" sites. It's what makes for some interesting and othertimes amusing reading, but far from the reality of what goes on in the real nomination process.

The game is starting to heat up on the ground in the various January primary states and its organization and visibility that are moving the numbers...things under the radar screen that those of us not involved in those states aren't seeing/hearing. We're getting a made-for-TV show that helps some candidates in increased visibility, but we've seen in the past, does little when it comes to counting caucus votes in Iowa or getting voters to the polls in New Hampshire.

The 2008 election hasn't begun...we're still in the midst of silly season where any candidate can be a giant beater and that politicking and idealism can stand on the podium next to the players with the better organizations and chances of winning. When the season ends, it's up to those who feel left out by the result to see if the election is worth it for them. Many Deaniacs in '04 became very strong Kerry supporters as did the Clarkies. When it comes down to making some type of change vs. more of the same war and repression (the GOOP plank) the election of '08 will be a lot clearer than it is right now.

i don't despise her personally tho

Hopefully a good third party candidate will be available.

in front of Pelosi's house. Or, they should, for all they're worth if they go third party on us, but they probably don't have the guts to do more than whine on an internet board..

And they will, of course, blame anyone calling for party unity as the "enablers" and the root of the problem. They are the only keepers of truth, justice, purity, wisdom, and the proper future of the country.

Maybe even apple pie.

Me, I see major flaws with Hillary, but I see major flaws with all of them and could come up with good reasons to vote against each of them. I see more reasons to vote against that slew of Republican D-listers, though and since one of the current candidates from one of those two parties will undoubtedly be our President in a year or so, I will vote for the best of the bunch, and then the better of the two.

Or least bad, depending on how you see things.

And I will not have to hold my nose when I do it.

Make plans to move.

Don't get me wrong. I'm quite angry with Hillary Clinton. I'm very unhappy with her equivocating, triangulating and obfuscating of her votes and positions about the Iraq War, and I think her health care plan will give millions to insurance companies, and not enough to the uninsured and uninsurable. The Mark Penn thing was the last straw for me - she should damned well know better than to spend millions of dollars to do business with the man who lobbies for Blackwater.

But if we're stuck with her, she'll be the lesser evil. I'll do what I have to make sure Giuliani or Romney never make it to the White House.

After all, in the general elections, you're not voting for a candidate, you're voting against the worst asshole.

STOP WITH THE GODDAMNED LOYALTY OATH POSTS!! MY VOTE IS MY VOTE!!

FUCK man. Here's the solution. Get a candidate that YOU ALL KNOW will NOT divide the left or center. Stop and think. WHY would we nominate a candidate that poses more than a slight risk of dividing our party while uniting and mobilizing THEIRS?? Aren't WE supposed to be the party of the smart people? Yeah, let's nominate someone who possibly won't turn one 2004 Red State Blue! Let's nominate someone who's almost guaranteed to lose Ohio and Florida without the help of paid operatives or Diebold! Great idea!

:thumbsup:

Cleveland is going to win a title sometime in my life. I can feel it.

And while I'm still dreaming, I'd like 2 million tax free dollars.

:)

sorry - they never shouLd have Lost to braves or the marLins. maybe they'LL have better karma if they move their stadium away from the ocean.

in Texas.

I'm getting really tired of choosing between the lesser of two evils every 4 years though. Maybe I'll vote for her, maybe I'll vote 3rd pary I havent decided yet but at the moment I'm leaning 3rd party if she gets the nod.

If she is the nominee I will vote for her.

If she becomes president and we don't begin leaving Iraq,
I'll march in the streets against her.

and I'll cry if I want to.

It is HER NOMINATION that is going to derail our party, not anything I as a low income individual can do or fail to do.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/hfojvt

I don't "despise" HRC. And I am not a "Hillary hater." I just think that in many ways she is a poor candidate and that she doesn't represent my views and interests. Why in the hell should I have to pledge my support to HRC before even a single primary vote has been cast?

Do people on DU honestly believe that when (if) election day comes that other DU members are going to vote for the Republican candidate or stay home if they are in a state where their votes might decide the outcome?:hi:
:dem:

That's the only thing that would motivate me to vote for her.

Otherwise, I think she's a corporate suck-up with no soul.

if Giuliani is elected.