Why are we even discussing torture as an option?

I just got done reading Keith's special comment, and I was reminded of my research of secret gov't programs during the Cold War.

Torture by the USA isn't new. We do it, we contract it out to other countries, we teach other countries to do it and we hire scientists to refine existing techniques and create new ones.

There's one major difference...it used to be secret.

Does that make it laudable? Absolutely not! We have to be concerned with the new operating method, though.

Before, if you were tortured, you were either killed or publicly smeared to the point that no one would believe you. You were made not to exist, because the torture program "didn't exist." Worse though, such actions were later excused in the name of "fighting communism."

Now...we torture openly. Jose Padilla was tortured at the word of the gov't, despite being a US citizen. We steal people like Maher Arar and send them to Syria(which is supposed to be our enemy in the "War on Terror") and other places to be tortured. We set up prisons to torture insurgents and accuse them of being Al-Qaeda terrorists and foreign fighters.

IMO the change is based on one idea- to make torture acceptable. To convince us that torture is needed, humane and moral. To make it commonplace.

If that is the case, we no longer live in a Republic...if indeed, anyone my age ever did.

and if it is acceptable..then Bush isn't a war criminal.

And then once it is acceptable...we are all fair game.

and punish those who practice in secret.

I can't imagine who these people are who think it should be an accepted policy of ours. They must be insane.

As one person pointed out, who got busted for Abu Ghraib? Two women? Yeah, that was a complete and fair investigation :sarcasm:

If enough people can be made to swallow it, it becomes acceptable.

Hey, if it works well (fictionally) for cops & CTU folks, who's gonna argue, right? Right?

They ruled that information gotten by torture is never admissible.

(Lord Bingham) referred to authorities from as far back as the 15th century to make the case that torture has no place in English law, or indeed in any law. He quoted the historian Sir William Holdsworth, who wrote in 1945 that "once torture has been acclimatized in a legal system, it spreads like an infectious disease" and "hardens and brutalizes those who have become accustomed to it."

That's what we have to look forward to. As if our country weren't in a dark enough place already thanks to the Repubs and the Dems who won't stand up to them.

by the RRR to make it okay with the masses.

We finally went completely Through The Looking Glass in November 2006. :shrug: Atrocities have become banal and human rights have become "quaint."

The object is to make torture acceptable to Americans. It's just like the tasering of kids in grade school. They're trying to make it acceptable for cops to be all over the schools and for tasers to be used on our children. To build a police state, one must make tolerable certain ideas that fly in the face of what is decent in a democratic society. 1984 showed up a little late, but it's finally make it.

We use enhanced interrogation techniques. Our government cannot say what those techniques are -- or are not -- as the enemy will adapt, but they are not torture. You can trust George Bush on that!

http://www.reuters.com/article/politicsNews/idUSN0141958320071101?pageNumber=1


All this discussion of whether waterboarding is torture or not is therefore purely academic. And, as with all things we have taken for granted (i.e.: the VP is part of the executive branch, only Congress can declare war, subpoenas must be responded to, American citizens must not be spied upon, etc.) -- well, reasonable people can disagree. Remember: 9/11 changed everything. We are at war!

As long as this administration denies, refuses to disclose, refuses to submit documentation, we are just grasping at straws and rumors. As long as Congress accepts "it's classified" as a reason they can't conduct oversight, this administration is safe.