Okay...Let's Make it SIMPLE! Did Kucinich get BOONDOGGLED TODAY...or was he A HERO!

DAMMIT...I watched the whole thing and have read every new thing about this BIZARRE VOTE...and I'm STILL NOT GETTING ANSWERS! Just SPIN FROM DU'ers/Spin from KOS/Spin from M&M and BLOGS.

SOMETHING IMPORTANT HAPPENED TODAY! ON the FLOOR OF THE US HOUSE of REPRESENTATIVES...and it seems to be "Couched in Legalezzzeee" that MANY OF US...CANNOT UNDERSTAND!

A POX ON ALL OF IT! WE NEED CHANGE AND CLARITY IN GOVERNMENT! Not some Archane Parliamentary Procedures that no Americans or even their Corporate Media can get a grip on.

ENOUGH OF SPIN...OBFUSCATION...LIES and LOBBYISTS! FAKE VOTES...FAKE EVERYTHING!

Our GOVERNMENT HAS BETRAYED US....LETS FIGURE OUT WHAT'S WRONG!

The Republicans screwed up bad!

DLC=Zero

but http://www.dailykos.com/ has decent explanation of the path of DK's resolution today.

Of course the leadership will boondoggle him, they planned to all along. But YES, HE IS A HERO. Not to Madame Pelosi and her lap dogs, but to us.

Parliamentary Procedure can be fascinating, but truly a pain in the *ss when you're trying to figure out what the hell is going on.

:-) :hi:

"Just SPIN FROM DU'ers/Spin from KOS/Spin from M&M and BLOGS."

Might that "spin" possibly, just maaaaaaybe, actually be "opinion?"

The "true story," without clutter of opinion, is freely available to the public in the Congressional Record. What time a given piece of legislation was presented, who voted how, what motions were offered in connection, it's all there.

he's the only one.

& now it's public!

Let the investigations proceed!!!

The GOP are betting another impeachment so soon after the Clinton witchhunt will be unpopular. Reality says that an attempted impeachment of a man whose approval rating has been hovering around 15% for two years is hardly going to be unpopular.

Kucinich thinks he can get enough evidence to impeach. Reality says that the stonewalling done by this bunch is complete. The pardon of Scooter sealed the deal, removing the one thing they could have used to pop that particular pimple and make it spill its corrupt contents. However, Cheney's fingerprints are on enough things from the railroading of a former governor into jail on false charges to attorneygate. Reality says that while Cheney might not be removed from office, he will not escape undamaged.

My own feeling is that there will be bags full of unintended consequences being held by both side, but the GOP's bag will be bigger.

I think you're right on.

However- i think there's more behind the Dem's voting not to table than meets the eye. The GOP wanted to make a fool out of DK by opening discussion on the floor so voting to table it- WHAM it went straight to committee where it belongs...

DK wins and the USA wins.

Now all we need is the DEM leadership to pick up the(ir) ball(s).

He spoke for millions and no matter what happens it's in the record books. Bravo Dennis :yourock:

but the dem leadership? they got boondoggled- and then they scrambled to get back to screwing dennis.

And on edit: A sig line change :)

:bounce:

He did it alone and without support, knowing it would go nowhere. It was a principled gesture but nothing more. Although I notice he's picked up some primary votes.

Democracy functions a little differently. It DOES NOT function by going it alone.

Is it leadership when nobody follows?

the lone dissent in Plessy v. Ferguson, he wrote "But in view of the Constitution, in the eye of the law, there is in this country no superior, dominant, ruling class of citizens. There is no caste here. Our Constitution is color-blind, and neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens. In respect of civil rights, all citizens are equal before the law."

it was 50 years before anyone agreed with him enough to make Brown v. Board of Education the law.

when the right thing is done and no one will follow? not the deffinition but it is not kucinich's fault, its the rest of our reps for not backing him, our house and senate have been cowed and their is nothing we can do, they do not represent us and do not vote for us. What happened today has confirmed that the democrats are not democrats that they are working for the neo con/ corpratist agenda and that kucinich is the only man who has the guts and fortitude to stand up to them.

Gary Cooper, John Wayne, Frank Sinatra (My Way) The tie dye dude on survivor! The Wicked Witch of the West had all the soldiers and the flying monkeys, but Dorthy kicked their ass all by herself (with a little help from her friends)

28 Dems voted against tabling, which is more than the 21 co-sponsors going in today.

Dennis pulled off a miracle.

He's the Man of Steel. Don't ever doubt it.

And Stinky? Stinky Hoyer? Fuck Stinky Hoyer!

The intent was to humiliate him IMHO, and it backfired on them.

enemies of our nation and hold them accountable for their crimes-including treason.

one of the very few

Either they get off their ass and do something about this turd in office or they are going to be burnt alive as a result of this. The repugs are betting that its going to be a bluff. But the Dems can turn it around if they do what needs doing.

Anyone who stands up for what's right against all odds is a hero in my book. And my book is frightfully bereft of modern American political heroes. The last one, Conyers, got himself x'd out.

HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! HERO! :)

he is fighting the righteous fight, it is up to the grassroots to step up now and help him win that fight, imo. Put tremendous, continued pressure on Conyers, the Dems on the Judiciary Committee and the leadership to deal with this and then send it back to the floor of the House.

Pressure on all the Democrats in the House to support a Discharge Petition if the Judiciary Committee doesn't act to bring the resolution back to the floor. Here is the info on Discharge petitions (thanks to DUer bluedog for the info!)



Discharge petition

A discharge petition is a means of bringing a bill out of committee and to the floor for consideration without a report from a Committee and usually without cooperation of the leadership.

Discharge petitions are most often associated with the U.S. House of Representatives, though many state legislatures have similar procedures.

They are used when the chair of a committee refuses to place a bill or resolution on the Committee's agenda; by never reporting a bill, the matter will never leave the committee and the full House will not be able to consider it.

A successful petition "discharges" the committee from further consideration of a bill or resolution and brings it directly to the floor.


The discharge petition, and the threat of one, gives more power to individual members of the House and usurps a small amount of power from the leadership and committee chairs.

The modern discharge petition requires the signature of an absolute majority of House members (218 members).


This procedure was used during the Enron scandal. Here is some info on that:

"House Speaker Dennis Hastert (R-IL) told the American people that the Shays-Meehan bill would get a vote in the House when 218 Members signed the discharge petition. Those signatures have been gathered and the Speaker now has a responsibility to expeditiously schedule the Shays-Meehan bill under the rule set forth in the Discharge Petition and requested by a majority of the House."

http://www.democracy21.org/index.asp?Type=B_PR&SEC={A259874B-A60E-4DF2-9BD4-084A751C1B93}&DE={B9B13505-7C3A-4E5B-AAC9-C1E8656F0EC3}

and various other squishy little pantywaists masquerading as Democrats.

about perspective, and from mine he is without doubt a hero.

finally someone who has guts, the repigs went with it cause they want to discredit the Democratic leadership. But again, Pelosi and Hoyer are just thinking about themselves and how they will be ridiculed by these thugs, isn't anyone thinking about the Constitution or the American people, or accountability of this thuggish regime.

:-(

The Chairman of the Committee(which will be Conyers if it is the Judiciary Committee) will have the responsibility to schedule the resolution for review, investigation, debate and a vote --if he gets around to it.

If the resolution never comes up for a vote by that committee, it could die there.

If Kucinich demands a vote on the resolution Conyers can say no and there is nothing Kucinich can do other than petition the Speaker for the resolution to be returned to the floor, which will require a discharge petition to be properly executed and approved. In that case the resolution would be reported out of committee without a recommendation regarding approval.

The ball is in the Democratic Leadership's court. And until some action is taken, there won't be any debate on its merits.

before he voted to bring it back to committee.

:shrug:

There were many conflicting forces at play today. In the end, things came out bery well for progressive democrats.

...
or maybe nice guys finish last.

nobody in the Dem leadership knew what the fuck they were doing

I called the capitol today and spoke to the Speaker's office, the clerk's offices and the parliamentarians office all of which could not answer to me "who is the acting speaker" one actually put me on hold and turned on a tv and said "it is too small on the screen i can't tell who that is..."

they are winging it

To me that is.

There's going to be a few Democrats and more than a few Republicans trying to claim otherwise in the days to come.

That's usually the case when a politician makes a stand for what's right over what's safe. He should wear their scorn as a badge of honor.

He stood up and did the right thing when no one else would.

i'll be proud to cast my vote for him again.

dp

Madamne speaker will not say it, but impeachment just crawled back on the table

:patriot:

I first saw Kid.

:loveya:

He did what he felt needed to be done, and made a statement in doing so, but the outcome was preordained and predictable (even if it was a bit messy getting to the end result). Some DUers have a tendency to attack the messenger and say that those who have been pointing out that impeachment isn't going anywhere at the present time (and that the "privileged resolution" gambit wasn't likely to result in anything being different) are guilty of "self-fulfilling prophesies". In fact, its those who ignore reality that are most surprised when, predictably, it bites them in the ass.

In the end, I think today was feel-good moment for DK and his supporters, but ultimately it was more sound and fury and little significance.

The rest of them can...

:shrug:

I'm going with Dennis is a HERO! :applause:

unappreciated, derided, and marginalized by his own party.

The hypocrisy dripping from those democrats bitching about "eating our own," while our reps in Congress do so gleefully, putting defeat of a fellow democrat above protecting and defending the Constitution of the nation, sickens me.

Why risk impeachment hearings when there is SO much to expose?
And once they began to flood into the NAY column, why didn't
ALL of the dems follow suit and make it UNANIMOUS to impeach?

What a breathtaking scene THAT would have been.

The fact of the matter is: Most Americans do not want Vice-President Cheney or President Bush to be impeached. In fact, Most Democrats do not want vice-President Cheney or President Bush impeached. All Democrats (I hope) want to replace these two Republican politicians with Democrats but they do not want them impeached. The “Impeach Bush” meme is a slogan designed to solicit money from naive Democrats to sustain the ego of a minor political figure.

We elected a Democratic majority in both the House and Senate to tackle the problems facing American society, which includes all citizens throughout the political spectrum. After years of Republican rule that task is monumental. Most Democrats do not want to see this Congress waste time pursuing a patently political retribution conceived for the benefit of a fringe member who is unable to garner the support of even 5% of the Democratic Party.