If you do not grasp the importance of electing a president
that will take our country back from the MIC and corporate thugs- please say so
here and now ,so that I can put you on ignore.
After listening/watching his interview with Amy Goodman
this morning, the MAN HAS MY VOTE.
I wont even LOOK at another candidate at this point.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/09/1455244
BHN

and I'd love to see him make a breakthrough in NH and Iowa, but he won't win. I just hope to see him get enough votes, that people wake up and take notice.

Every time a corporate media talking point is repeated, it undermines the candidate and his message.
While it's probably true, you're doing their work for them.

Kucinich has aboslutely no chance of being elected. None. Even if he was the only candidate, he wouldn't get elected. He is unelectable.

:sarcasm:

:nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke: :nuke:



:eyes:

I Ron Paul can get 3+million in donations on line, anything is possible.

WELCOME TO DU!
AND YES, HE CAN WIN!
BHN

If it doesn't matter it won't. Literally.

Just a little input on the power of thought. As long as we continue to fall for status quo thinking we will get status quo results.
As soon as we change our belief system, we change our reality.
The power of positive thinking 101.
Be part of the solution. Believe that Kucinich can win.

I too, believe in the power of the collective mind.
WELCOME!
BHN

:hide:

Well, I thought that funny....





...and accurate.

People just don't realize how negativity breeds more negativity. It's time to say he should be the next President of the USA for the following reasons, etc. etc., period. Never mention or even think, "he can't win".

Everyday say to your self. I want Dennis Kucinich to be the next President for all the reasons you believe he will be the best. If every one who supports him does this every day and imagines him being sworn in on January of 2008, it will give you the talking points you need at your fingertips to counter any negativity you run into every day, like "he can't win", "he looks like an elf", and so on and so on not to mention the power that a mass of thought produces to influence things.

We have enough Constitutional crises as it is.

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

In other words, don't speak the truth? Sorry, I like Kucinich a lot, but he's just never going to win--people are too dumb to listen to a short, not-too-attractive man who thinks he saw a spaceship, no matter how smart he is. Ron Paul doesn't stand a chance; neither does Gravel. That doesn't mean you shouldn't vote for any of them; just don't tell me I'm not allowed to acknowledge the truth that they don't stand a chance in hell of winning, nomination or general.

I think they may be ready for the backlash. See where macho-ness has gotten us. It doesn't fly. Dennis is precisely the opposite. To the extent they are shallow and dumb, he may just fit the bill.

He deserves all the praise thrown his way this week, and then some.

something to protect and restore it. If you listened to all the other candidates,
you wouldn't even know that this is an issue.
I've written letters of support and made contributions to his
campaign (among others), to thank him for his courage and dedication.
I'd vote for him in a heartbeat if I thought he was electable in the general election.

It's sad to realize that the person who might best serve the country is not necessarily
the person who has the best machine or the most money in their coffers.

Hi, very long-time lurker, finally registered.

As a person, I like Kucinich better than any other candidate. I applaud Kucinich for standing up to Bush and his unconstitutional actions. Nobody else seems to have the courage to do it as straightforward as it needs to be done.

But his hands are not clean, he doesn't completely care about the Constitution. He is trying to ban guns, in direct contravention of the 2nd Amendment. He is trying to bring up the "Fairness" Doctrine again in direct contravention of the First Amendment (we would have a serious problem if progressive ideals couldn't win in the free marketplace and require government enforcement to make them heard, but trashing the Constitution isn't the answer). He voted yes on a constitutional amendment banning flag desecration, again against the 1st Amendment (I may wish to see such flag burners punished, but freedom of expression also means expression you loathe, so this war vet will have to just bite the bullet and let them burn).

For me right now, he's the only candidate worth considering.

I seriously don't know how ANY thinking person could call
themselves a democrat and not back/vote for this man.
BHN

:loveya: Dennis! love his Constitution and his constitution.

I've thought this all along. I'm voting either Edwards, Nader, or Green Party if Kucinich doesn't get the nomination (which of course is about 250-1 odds, lol)...

Hey! My last name is Kuljian. And I don't speak any Armenian.

Welcome to the DU world.

Is Karabekian an Armenian name? Rabo's a character from a Kurt Vonnegut book. I'm a European mutt, but not Armenian, sorry to disappoint.

p.s. I like to have anonymity on these boards so my name doesn't show up in every internet search engine known to man.

Like Youssarian in Catch-22.

I am more embarrassed that as much as I love Vonnegut, I haven't read his books.

Oh wow, Youssarian's an Armenian name, interesting I love Catch-22. Who knew Armenians were so prominent in great literature.

From Canada. Kahraman is the last name (originally from Istanbul)

Karabekian's parents escaped the Armenian genocide, didn't they? Am I remembering the book incorrectly?

Ha, ha, I couldn't tell you it's been a while since I read both Bluebeard and Breakfast of Champions. I like the name Rabo Karabekian it's got uniqueness and character.

or the Pink and then see how you are actively contributing to Bush's legacy of filling the Supreme Court with Thomases and Scalias.

Kucinich is not going to get the nomination. If he will, this will be another meltdown like McGovern had in 1972 and everyone here can be proud of throwing the country into the dark ages for generations to come because the Supreme Court will send us there.


The only issue is the Supreme Court. I don't care how much you hate Clinton or Obama or Edwards or Biden. But these are the only candidates that can win in the general elections. Not 'UFO" Dennis.

I am so glad that most of the Democratic voters are not like DU. Go ahead, put me on the "ignore" list - whatever this means. I will consider this as a badge of honor.

Vote for a candidate who is a family friend of the bushs'. That will show them.

Vote for a candidate who was too scared to filibuster a facist pick for the supreme court. Now your talking.

Vote out of fear. That's the smart way. Vote for a candidate who keeps giving bush everything he wanted, so you can fear somemore.

And question everything, except what motivates your vote. And wear your fear as a badge of honor.

with nominees by Clinton, Obama, Edwards or Biden, to put the breaks on what you call "Corporate America." Your candidate will certainly lose - as has been echoed on this thread - and you will not have any protection at all.

If you are fresh out of college - here are some news for you: Politics is the art of compromise. Yes, even with "corporate America." If you are not aware of this, are not willing to play the game, then you have no room in this game.

And, again, I don't know how you pay for your Internet access - perhaps you use the public library or, there I say it - your employer's. But "corporate America has paid the wages for my parents and for my in-laws. This allowed us to go to college and make a decent living. It allowed our parents to retire with dignity and it allows us to donate to worthy causes like... DU and Democratic candidate.

Corporate America allows millions of us to earn a living and to pay taxes which, in turn support your education - I take it you do have one - as well as all other government programs. Including, yes, the horrible waste in Iraq. Which is why we need a Democrat in the White House, any Democrat.

Your choice will go down in defeat and the war and misery both at home and abroad will continue for at least four more years. No doubt, you probably want to kick out the Democrats that won a seat in Congress in 2006 so we will be back to a rubber stamp Republican Congress but, hey, you will be able to crawl into a fetal position in your jail cell - you will be arrested for violating a part of the Patriot Act - and be happy that you stood on principles. That the rest of us will have to live under real restrictions of our rights - you won't care. You stuck by your principles.

And you call yourself a liberal?

So, yes, I question everything. I question the wisdom and the real motives of people like you who will not be willing to compromise even though the consequences will bring hell the the country.

Imprisoned by your own television screen you installed yourself in your mind.

Corporations have one aspiration only. To make as much money for their stockholders anyway they can. They've already wiped out whole towns of families, whole regions of their natural resources, whole cultures, and yet you accept this as 'normal," as necessary.

This machine which is alway hungry, which always must be fed now serves as your master.

My mother was born in then year WWI ended. She lived under Herbert Hoover, one of your heroes obviously, because he, like you, imbued corporate America with some god-like qualities. What's good for GM is good for America, is the brainwashing you readily accept.

My father went to college on the GI bill back from the war, WWII. It was a socialist program that transformed the entire country by creating the middle class where none existed before, because the corporations didn't create that. They failed the whole country already.

Far and away most jobs in this country today are made by small businesses, which are the natural enemies of Corporations. Corporations attempt to swallow the family farm, the small entrepreneur, the self employed. these small businesses and self employed bear the lions share of the tax burden, while the corporation move to where labor is cheap.

You get to buy a lot of plastic crap, lawn gnomes and shiny flashing electrical doodads, while the heart and soul of AMerica is ripped out for a few pieces of paper, in god we trust.

Yes, vote for your corporate heroes, with feet of clay. They will save you from having to think and feel for yourself. The corporations own our politics, our culture, and our hopes and dreams.

Good luck with that.

the corporations have picked America and Americans clean of their resources and sold us all 3 tvs, 2 cars, and more junk than our houses can hold...so they have picked up their factories, fired American employees and moved onto bigger and cheaper labor sources in other countries with larger consumer populations so they can pick them clean of their labor and consumerism and resources.

One more thing, the next time you call up a corporation to pay or question a bill etc, and you get someone in a foreign country, ask to be transferred to an office in America. You will be transferred after they try to argue you out of it, and its nice they have a job in China or India or somewhere, but that job used to held by an American who now has no job.

So what I'm saying is BUY AMERICAN. If enough people start demanding AMERICAN sooner or later the coproation will have to re-open a center in AMERICA to answer those calls.

And PS - there was a lady on CNN today who has put on the internet a list of 250 companies in America who still MANUFACTURE toys in AMERICA. You might google it so that your kid doesn't accidentally swallow a Xmas toy coated in the date-rape drug.

rant over.

This could be it's own thread - you've distilled the predicament nicely.

The primaries aren't even over yet, and you are declaring someone a fool for wanting to vote for the most progressive candidate? I'm sorry but isn't that what the primary is all about? It's about choosing who we feel best represents our views and voices as a party. You just seem to be stuck in the, "must compromise on everything" mentality the democrats in Congress are carving for themselves in stone, while the other party, the one that refuses to compromise, maintains power despite now even being in the minority. It's important to stand up for what you believe, and how dare you attempt to belittle someone for being someone of principle.

And you call yourself a liberal?

so well said, and my sentiments exactly

edited to add that until and unless al gore enters the race, i'm voting for kucinich until there ain't no kucinich to vote for, and until and unless that sad day comes to pass, i'm not choosing anybody else.

Can you imagine a Gore/Kucinich ticket? I think I would live and breathe that campaign...

I'll quote from Richard Mitchell's The Gift of Fire, because he says it so much better than i can:





Does a "just state and virtuous governing" demand compromise?

The only "art" of compromise i can think of is being able to maintain some degree of independence while at the same time giving away something useful or needed. Often it's not a particularly strategic or positive starting point for a relationship.

And another thing, this isn't a game. This is about our Constitution and our Democracy. Those are pretty serious things to consider, no?


It doesn't sound to me like your questioning anything, really. I hear your negativity and echoes of the Party line, but no questioning...


:shrug:

your trojan horse candidate will be more of the same, SC or no SC.

you WOULD vote for him, wouldn't you?

Or does 'hold your nose and vote' only apply to progressive voters?

And this is the difference between me and too many here who will not vote for, say, Clinton, or all the ones who voted for Nader in 2000 and who are as responsible for the mess we are now in as all the ones still driving around with the W on their fenders.

or the Pink and then see how you are actively contributing to Bush's legacy of filling the Supreme Court with Thomases and Scalias.

Sorry, no I don't live in a swing state. My state will go for the Democrat by a huge margin.

Kucinich is not going to get the nomination. If he will, this will be another meltdown like McGovern had in 1972 and everyone here can be proud of throwing the country into the dark ages for generations to come because the Supreme Court will send us there.

Fine, with me McGovern might be the last Democrat who was a real progressive. I can't argue that McGovern was crushed, but Bobby Kennedy would have been the president if he hadn't been shot, anyway.

Btw, I don't think Bobby Kennedy was a progressive, he was pretty liberal though.

The only issue is the Supreme Court. I don't care how much you hate Clinton or Obama or Edwards or Biden. But these are the only candidates that can win in the general elections. Not 'UFO" Dennis.

Ha, ha UFO Dennis? I don't care if Dennis says he saw the Virgin Mary (or he is the Virgin Mary, lol) he's by far the best on the issues, and your pathetic attempt to caricature him is truly sad.

I am so glad that most of the Democratic voters are not like DU. Go ahead, put me on the "ignore" list - whatever this means. I will consider this as a badge of honor.

Why would I put you on the ignore list? I'm not fascist, I welcome dissent; I welcome your thoughts no matter how Machiavellian and unidealistic they are.

there is no opposition to corporate fascism without him.

and no republic if there is not swift and strong opposition to it.

bhn

Thanks for the link. I didn't know he was on with Amy. This ought to be good!

Fuck the corporate whores pretending to represent us.
I want DENNIS- he is the ONLY candidate speaking the truth.
BHN

I voted for him in the primaries in 2000,and my mother said that I wasted my vote.
That wasn't true. It was the first time I was ever able to vote for a candidate I truly believed in.
Long Live Kucinich :)

To vote for the corporate whores who CLAIM to
represent us, is no different than NOT voting.
Welcome to DU, BTW.
BHN

We need Dennis – he is the only one with the answers on how to fix the problems with America.

is beyond me.
The rest of them are nothing but corporate shills.
Exactly what we DON'T need more of.

BHN

Get over yourself and let me know when you get down from that high horse, although judging from that post it may take a while.

:)

I wouldn't presume to think otherwise.

Seriously- I didn't have much hope where our candidates
were concerned...UNTIL I saw DK with Amy Goodman this morning.

NOW I am on DK FIRE!

BHN

bhn

which of the candidates are willing to stand up for the Constitution and the people of the United States. It's Dennis. Period.

Go Dennis! :woohoo:
http://dennis4president.com
Choose Peace!

up to the task of running the country. Now how do we make it happen?

Oh yeah, he was.

So I'm not sure what point you are making.

He may have mobilized the leftist kids (like myself) but he was a mainstream liberal, a decorated WW2 hero, and he ran a decent, if not great, campaign. But he was the first Democrat to run against what would become the neo-cons. He was running a typical campaign against non-typical opponants - CREEP and Nixon's dirty tricks operatives, abetted by illegal use of the FBI to undermine his campaign.

It wasn't that he was too far left - it was that he was too decent to accept that he was up against criminals.

Dennis would never make that error. He knows who the enemy is, and he, alone, is ready to take them on.

Other candidates, on the other hand, will compromise and dither and let them off, and will be destroyed by them. They either do not accept that the repulican party is run as a criminal enterprise, or they are complicit in it. Neocon, neolib, there's not a spit of difference.

cut troop level significantly, and the country wasn't anywhere near as opposed to the war then as this country is opposed to the Iraq occupation.

Nixon had a state enemy (N Vietnam) to rally the knuckle draggers against.

The analogies of Kucincih to McGovern are an indication that people are starting to fear that Dennis is getting some traction.

It is just a simplistic attempt to derail that traction. There is absolutly no factual basis for such an analogy, yet I've seen it used at least three times in the last 24 hours.

There is of course no good analogy to Bobby Kennidy either. I like to bring it up just to show how silly it is to try to fit Dennis into either box.

I'dvote for McGovern right now --- !!!

Look what the folks over on the right did after Goldwater got the shit kicked out of him by LBJ. They regrouped, reorganized, and got in it for the long haul, and took the entire nation on the long retarded rightward march we've been on since Reagan. Yeah, thanks for bringing that up.

this is profound insight. perhaps it has a relation to this notion of DK's "failure by fiat" because a few declare him unelectable. rather akin to a media campaign of similar tact. or the democrats image as 'spineless', and congress' image of 'do nothings'. something about doing something once and being cowed to never do it again versus the tenacity of implacable amoral RW morons...

why, i think you're on to something here!

Category: "too late smart" ---

Tell it brother! The Only One! Only!

Or Al Gore, if he jumps in the race.

even if I agree with him on most issues. There is more to being a President than just being right on the issues. He was about 100 votes shy of being recalled as a mayor for a reason: he is a weak executive. I would still hold my nose and vote for him if he was our nominee, but he seems to have such little support from regular people I doubt he will finish in the top 5.

might as well as give Dennis the same benefit of the doubt. I've heard raves about him for many years now. He has impressed me in these last weeks as no democratic candidate has. I will come out for him. He's the only real one out there.

edit to add: And we had better fucking clean house too. I suspect Carter was screwed over by the Republican machine that he just wanted to 'get along with'. What if Clinton had cleaned house? Would our current feckess nutfucks be anywhere in the vicinity of public office? No more getting along to get along.

OUR country and nothing less is at stake.
Dennis is the ONLY candidate not beholden to the power elite.
BHN

as was proved later. I'd rather have someone who isn't beholden to corporate money that Hillary is and that others have gotten. John Edwards is good...but Kucinich has more government experience.

...SHE is the one that is completeley out of touch. He's become the maverick and he deserves votes.

to refer to someone who refuses to take marching orders form the corporate masters.

Describes someone who gets to the roots of the problems facing America today instead of applying a sticking plaster solution. Just the sort of person we need.

Or accountability for Cheney/Bush ---

He da'man no doubt.

I would love to get a chance to vote for him btw

It's a damned shame that he's about the only real liberal left, but at least it makes choosing him obvious.

Go, Dennis, go!

. . .we stick with him to the level of writing him in when the DLC-DNC ignore him next summer in Denver. . .

DEMAND DENNIS IN DENVER!

. . .and then, if they ignore us AGAIN, start a write-in campaign. . .

THE LINE WILL BE DRAWN IN THE SAND.

:toast: :toast: :toast: :toast: :toast:

to get the word out there! He isn't running ANY ads in Iowa at all!

How do we get more people to donate money to him? :shrug:

https://services.myngp.com/ngponlineservices/contribution.aspx?X=aDlDFFT9TMGh0ghebdP6VkYKCfcT%2fFNw">Click here to donate to Dennis Kucinich's presidential campaign

OR go here http://www.dennis4president.com/go/issues/
and click on the word CONTRIBUTE at the top.

He's the only true choice in real leadership. Not paid off by the corporations.

If I can't have The Goricle I'll take Dennis!

Wrong - at least not for me.

Supporting a candidate who represents our ideals is what the primary season is supposedly for - but if you want to accept the corporate dictated outcome as inevitable, it's a free country.

you do not have to accept anything, you can hope, wish and dream all you want. But there is not enough hope in the world to make render him the nominee.

Although I will support whoever the Democratic nominee is in the general election

considering him. Although when thinking of his views and actions, I can see clearly that he does not speak to me or most Americans. But even if he did, he's not a viable candidate.

The only real candidates are Clinton, Obama, and Edwards at this point.

It's okay to feel sad about not having more of a choice, or dreaming the "what ifs" as to who else you would choose, if you had your way (or if I had my way).

But the reality is that Kucinich is not a viable candidate in any sense of the word. I have a neighbor down the street that I think would express my views better as President than any of the candidates so far...but that's a pipe dream, since my neighbor has zero chance of getting the nomination.

Reality. For those who want a change and a chance to save the country more than they want to "make a statement."

Dennis won the DFA straw poll by huge margins, and is leading the poll on The Nation last time I checked, and he runs ahead of Richardson, Biden, Dodd and Gravel in many many polls, so maybe you should take a second look at your neighbor....he might be more electable than you think.

That's my point.

The media tells me nothing. I think for myself. I've watched every debate...Republican debates included.

Kucinich is not a viable candidate. I agree with few things he says, few actions he takes....and I think he's a wacky little character with a strange haircut and a weird new wife. I think a lot of people think of him similarly.

Also consider....people tend to elect "leaders" as President. Few people elect tiny little guys with high pitched voices as their "leader." It has never happened, actually, in the entire history of the country. Add the weird hair, the wacko ideas, the weird wife with a stud on her tongue, and what you have is someone who is interesting to listen to, enlivening at a debate, entertaining at times...but someone who is totally, absolutely not a viable candidate for President of the United States.

At this point Richardson, Dodd, and Biden are goners, too.

The choices are: Clinton, Edwards, Obama. I don't like it, either. But that's the reality.

I can accept that you politically disagree with Dennis but I abhor your judgmental rationale as it represents to me the mindset that exactly gave us GWB, the neocons, and the fall of democracy we're experiencing.

I for one, think we need a new paradigm and of the choices, Dennis offers such that I can support.

It does not surprise me, though, that a Kucinich supporter would call me names. It makes my point, really. He is not ready for the big time.

You know this, of course, if you have been paying attention and are familiar with American history, and have a sense of what the American people are thinking. There is a reason that Kucinich is near the bottom of the pack of candidates; it is because most voters do not support him.

He may win elections where he hails from. Obviously, his constituents believe he speaks for them. But he does not speak for the average American.

He is not viable. You know it, he knows it, most Americans have shown it repeatedly in ALL the polls of any sort...Dem candidate vs. other Dem candidates, Dem candidate vs. Republican candidates.

This is the reality. You can either accept now what will happen, or you will be forced to accept it later. But it will happen nonetheless...he will drop out when the money gets low and he doesn't come in as the first or second winner of any of the first states during the primary season.

You keep spouting variations of this theme. Please list the key issues of this election, what you believe to be Dennis' position on them, and what you believe to be the "average American's" opinion. Just a few will do.

and you're affecting change by trolling message boards with smears about how a congressman's wife accessorizes?

sheesh
:eyes:

Only a blind or self deluded person would then assume that makes him "unelectable."

Dennis' major challenge is that his campaign hasn't been anointed by the corporate oligarchy.

This makes people, who take their cues from the ruling elite, very uncomfortable. They assume that unless anointed he can't possibly accomplish his goal.

These people have been very wrong before.

:rofl:

You are what's wrong with "Merica". You're probably a Rushbot, scamming this site. You worship the "Big Dick", eh, and hate someone based on physical attributes, rather than intellectual ability and total correctness on all the issues. Get you some then. Go to a stall somewhere, where your fellow Rethugs go! Open your stance and you may score something other than a "tiny little guy"

FK YOU!
ASSHOLE!!!

the IS no question about it....Kucinich is the man and he has my vote. In fact, he has earned the vote of every Progressive on DU. So the question is, will you step up and support someone who supports YOU, or will you succumb to the will of the media and their masters and continue to believe Kucinich has no chance. Nothing pisses me off more than such a defeatist attitude in buying into the media propaganda that DK isn't electable. If one takes the time to "think" it just might be possible to grasp the concept that he IS electable IF WE VOTE FOR HIM. If you haven't donated to the Kucinich campaign yet, then why not send a few bucks in his direction, surely he has earned that.

We'll talk more after that.

I love Dennis!

Go Dennis!!

I like Kucinich fine, don't get me wrong. But the implication that only those who choose Kucinich are worthy Democrats is just silly. IMHO.

Saying that only true Democrats support Kucinich is pretty insulting to say the least, but the guy just has no chance of being nominated and DK supporters should come to grips with that. He's doing some great things and I love his liberal ideas but he is just not a realistic nominee.

And no I'm not just saying that because the media tells me to, I'm saying that because it's painfully obvious to any reasonable individual.

I won't put anyone on ignore, though; I believe an open door allows people who value the Constitution to come to that point at their own pace.

:hi:

on Thursday.

Why is it that Ron Paul is able to raise 4.2 million dollars in one day and not Dennis?

I love Dennis. I've loved him from the first I heard of him when the "Prayer for America" speech was first made public on the internet years ago. Now that he's brought articles of impeachment against Cheney to the House, I love him even more. This is the kind of man I want to support -- and do support. This is the kind of man I want to see leading this country into the extreme rapids of history that lie just ahead of us -- a man of vision. I also support Al Gore and wish he would declare and, in my mind, the two of them on the same ticket would simply be unbeatable. This is the kind of real leadership (not followship of the neocon/corporate/mic/nwo agenda) our country needs.

I think it would take the equivalent of a revolution in political thinking and organizing at the grass roots for EITHER Kucinich or Paul to get the nominations of their respective parties. That isn't a statement about either Kucinich or Paul but a statement about how our electoral process has become increasingly manipulated by media and corporate interests -- to the point that anyone outside that money trough system of the beltway is declared "unelectable". Once declared, as we see here, it gets picked up as a meme and echoed through time -- and a lot of people believe it.

But we do see that new ideas, new leadership, is not only needed, but even wanted by a lot of people in this country. Not everyone, but many. This, I think, is what is behind the Ron Paul movement. A lot of disillusioned Republicans -- first disillusioned with their own party and then doubly disillusioned by go-along-to-get-along Democrats -- and a lot of disillusioned anti war, anti neocon agenda Democrats (especially young ones) have become strong supporters of Paul and are working to push his candidacy on the internet. See this, for example: http://www.thisnovember5th.com/

What I don't understand is why this same zeal isn't coming from more Democrats and forming around Kuckinich. We need this man and he needs our help. He needs our money, our energy, our creativity, our dedication -- and most of all, he needs us to catch fire with his vision of a new, revitalized America.

to see more and more of these threads emerge here at DU. He's been my candidate since 2004.

eom

Here is the real problem. All the people flocking to Ron Paul for his
anti-war views (no better than Dennis' views) & his 'standing up' to
globalists, the WTO, etc., and his "America First" views. He really
is picking up steam, sadly, more than Dennis. He may or may not be
a supporter of Dennis' push to impeach Cheney, or to point out in
the new Defense act in the House the risks to our Democracy too.

I will not put Dennis second to anyone in defending the Constitition
or putting America first. But on every other subject, Ron Paul gets
WORSE grades than even Bush/Cheney. I hear supporters say 'he's
a doctor, he understands health care'. BULLSHIT. It's a leaky boat &
Hillary/Obama/Edwards want to just keep patching it up with more &
more money from us to them (the insurance companies) disguised as
'universal health care' that will only see our costs go up more.

Dennis wants to replace that boat w/ a better one. Ron Paul won't
do that. He wants to flip the boat over and let 'em swim for their
lives. He's got a govt. pension & plan, he doesn't need universal
coverage or Social Security. Just on the loss of SSI alone. That
would endanger many disabled Americans who also depend on a
Medicare program. He says he'll phase it out. Right. And then
what? Libertarians (corporate liberals as they are) will go
say 'let their family or church help them with charity...'

What if they have no such support. Many don't. He will abandon all
of them if he has his way. People are so swooned by his anti-war &
anti-globalist, pro-American populist charm they miss that he has
such a horrible resum'e besides that. More ignorance from those
who support him under the guise of not being ignorant. That or
they too are 'all set' with their own private retirement and
pension, if someone else isn't, well it's not their problem.

He'll lift all pollution regulations, ease regulations on food
and water quality. Privatize everything. Folks who support him
are borderline paranoid. While I agree 9/11 wasn't what was in
the official report, and I have some distrust for govt. I have
a lot more distrust for private corporations being unregulated
and handed 'care' over us. We don't matter, just the money we
spend, and their bottom line. It's frying pan into the fire then.

IF WE WANT Dennis to be an independent voice, with or without
a win in the Democratic primary, we need to wake up an absent
minded lot supporting Ron Paul. I fear he distracts people and
they don't realize Dennis has the same plan to protect us &
end the war, only better, and without the baggage and risk
of a pro-privatization, corporate liberal Libertarian like
Ron Paul. I'm sure all of you know or know of supporters
like I describe. We need to change their mind on who it
is they see as an answer to politics as usual. It's not
Ron Paul, unless they are self-centered 'all set' folk
who support him for it. The answer is Dennis Kucinich.

I like that Ron Paul is dissenting to the GOP war policy. He
could even cause a split in some ways. But the risk is many
independents sick of politics as usual, who could lean for
a Democrat, who may see him as more anti-war than Hillary
or Obama, may gravitate his way. The result could be, if
he runs independent, him taking more from Democrats for
merely being anti-war, and having all the pro-war GOP
folks in lockstep supporting Rudy, and Rudy will win.
Then it's the same / worse version of Bush in office.

So put me on ignore if you want to. Sorry that you have to do that. :shrug:

My favorite part was:

"I realize I’m a long shot. I don’t have any delusions about that. But I also know that right now democracy is a long shot in America, and I realize that our constitutional protections are kind of a long shot. So I’m willing to take that stand, and I think that the people of New Hampshire are going to have an opportunity to append the political process by voting for my candidacy, which will give them a chance to have a voice and a consistent supporter, not just of peace and workers' rights and healthcare for all, but of the basic constitutional principles that brought us together to form a nation so many years ago."


I voted for him in the last primary and I don't feel my vote was wasted. It was the first time I ever felt like I really voted for the principles I believed in, and that the candidate believed in them, too.

You've got my support and my vote Dennis! :loveya:

:patriot:

And he has it THIS time.Again.And if he runs for president after this election season,he will get my vote AGAIN.
I say this because by his actions,and his word, Dennis has a conscience.
Dennis is a TRUE progressive Dem,not a corporate servant playing a Democrat on TV to win votes from people not aware the DLC has been infiltrated by fifth columnists,or have forgotten what being Liberal means..

Dennis knows what I want to see blossom in my country and he will not compromise with the socialized psychopaths on the right and the fake Dem's pretending they give a shit about our welfare..

Dennis has a mind and a heart and he is not scared to use and show he has both even on TV ..Dennis actually READS the Constitution. How many neocons know any of what that precious document says? Seems the neocons find out what it says when they break the Constitution itself..seeking tyranny ,by allowing torture, removing habeas corpus or being investigated for illegal wiretapping,than they find out,a bit too late
Sadly the right wing citizen enamored with authority figures act as enablers of the abusers of power.Right wing people are ever so eager to sell out the freedoms and rights given us all to feel secure.

Liberals of Dennis's caliber are unwilling to do that even to make the right feel secure,Dennis will make the right wing own up to it's crimes and face it's fears..Hillary and Obama just are not Liberal enough to do that.They compromise as if that is the answer. The time for compromise is long over my liberal co patriots.Dennis realizes this.

The rest of the candidates ,they are almost carbon copies of each other,the blind leading the blind. They are too far to the right for me to stomach,even though Gravel says some true things he too is very much so on the right.All but DK,are too in line with Bush's disastrous policies. Hillary, Obama and the rest are still corporatist, and unwilling to do the tough changes to push what is needed to redirect this countries "leadership" into it's proper role a servant of us, the people.

That's why the media focuses on Hillary and Obama so damn much they are the CORPORATE choice, the Oligarchies candidates and so the media COMPANIES try to shut out Dennis and stifle his voice. Because Dennis knows what Liberal means.If it was not for the web....

So You Go Dennis!!! ,You have the integrity to shame them all with their own bought out bullshit, The intelligence to see those veiled right wing talking points and the courage to point out their inane hypocrisy,and the character to defeat this banality of evil..even on TV in front of everyone.

Dennis if his message was understood and heard,I think he would..
Let the bullshit"front runners run headlong into the pile of bullshit they are trying to foist upon the American people.
And come out looking presidential..smelling like a rose.

That is what true liberals do when given a voice against the tyranny .The mainstream unaware of how power has been abused to take our rights and freedoms from us,begins to GET IT.And that is what the corporatist and abusers of power FEAR..

Dennis is the ONLY true blue progressive Democrat running this race. He has MY vote. Again.
No questions about Dennis's left tilt for me.Because I am on the left myself probably more left than Dennis,and I am PROUD to be a Liberal too..Because I know what a liberal really IS and what it means to me to call myself a Liberal and what Liberal meant before the manipulating narcissistic right wing assholes and their corporate buddies twisted language and meaning itself through vain repetitions until they almost made the word liberal into a slur against my personal integrity..


What I have to ask of other people here on DU..: Do you remember or know what it means to be a liberal anymore? Politically or otherwise? Think and be honest with yourselves.

A hint:
A Liberal or Left wing person has these traits:

Giving and generous,ethical, broad minded, tolerant of other ideals different than their own,non-traditional, not as self oriented but more community oriented, not narcissistic in the use of political power or presence, prefers a government and expects a corporation to be fair and expect others to be fair also,,pro-privacy, reads the constitution and understands what it SAYS and what a violation of the constitution or bill of rights or the law is and will not tolerate that..Liberals do not exempt themselves from the rule of law like republicans want and try to do ,but only for republicans.

Liberals are ethical,honest and open,thoughtful,transparent, gentle,seeking wisdom. Liberals are supportive of others who are'weaker' or less advantaged than themselves,even if they cannot"produce" because Liberals value all human life.Liberals support women's liberation,they support abortion and birth control,and sex education knowing pregnancy can be used as a tool by patriarchy to control and oppress women, it was used in the past this way. Liberals also support the rights of minorities and gays because they too are human beings as human and as much a person with rights to person hood as much as any white christian male.... Liberals strive to liberate the human spirit of all people not just their own kind or class..

Liberals are willing to share wealth of us all with even the least of us so that we all can thrive to the best of each ones ability.

Liberals are class warriors on the good side of humanity pushing for higher principles ,willing to tax the rich if they will not share voluntarily and give of their excess. Liberals are egalitarians,and stand for the public good,the health, safety and welfare of the American people,Holding people over profit is a Liberal value.

Liberals are for elevating human life and the well being of us all including the animals and the ecosystem that supports life here over the short sighted demands non-living things like corporations or preserving the myth of social stratification and entitlements especially ones rich people think they are owed by this world and full spectrum domination....Liberals do not hold a double standard,unlike republicans who see people through their calvinistic Pre- destination beliefs and illusions of social classes and plutocratic delusions of entitlement.

Liberals are anti-full spectrum domination of the whole world,they believe each country city and state has a right to maintain its own character as long as human rights are not violated.Liberals are ANTI-TORTURE, Liberals are not theocratic ,dominionists,or evangelists who seek to tear down the wall of separation of church and state. Liberals are smarter more educated,because they value learning,and so they understand why we must become more "green".,Liberals are Anti-war,and pro- diplomacy whenever possible,Liberals should be at least somewhat anti- authoritarian and mistrust authoritarians,especially around places and positions of power.

Liberals understand what damage that un-checked greed and abuse of power does to all human beings.They want everyone to thrive,well and pursue their happiness if it is not at the expense of others thriving..They support equal rights and civil liberties in general...And they know making shady deals and compromises with power hungry right wing psychopaths only destroys the liberal values that true liberals hold near and dear.Like securing the common good and general welfare of the people even ones who are not white or male,churches or corporations... Matters.

Are you a liberal on the left?
If so DK is the only REAL and GENUINE liberal running.
Think about it.

And no, I'm not voting for Biden because Kucinich is unelectable. I'm voting for Biden 'cause I see him as the anti-bush: smart, articulate, experienced, and righteous.

(This is my first post after lurking for ...hmmm... three years. Hi Everyone!)

Welcome to DU, Sheppdogg! :hi:

welcome:hi:

yea, Biden should not be kicked to the curb, he is not getting enough play. :hi:

Thanks all for the welcome.

Yes, three years lurking. I have been prompted to call BS in the past, but you have to wait 24 hours after registering and by then you forget. In fact, it was another thread that moved me to register -- can't recall what it was now.

But more on the topic. I believe we've got a great group of candidates, and I would be happy with any one of them from Kucinich to Clinton (that's left to right LOL).

stop by the Joe Biden supporter's group here on DU! We'd love to hear from another Bidenite!

and see what DK is about and what he can do for the country and to do that he needs contributions to his capaign as he doesn't get big corporate contributions.

I'm just so damned riled up at the prospect of having
a REAL president after so many years of
corporatist rulers...
I retract the ignore statement...

:blush:
BHN

:kick:

The man speaks for me.

He's got my vote as well.

:kick:

And I totally agree. The man has my vote.

I say to hell with the naysayers about whether he is "electable."
I'll be the first to admit that was my original thought about him too.
Now however, I see him as the ONLY electable candidate.

Sort of like choosing between the Patrick Henry of our time
and the corporate red coat nominees.

BHN

do you people always just argue among yourselves or do
you ever send your approval to Kucinich along with 10 or 15 bucks?
Do you ever pick up the phone and say the same things
to your congressman or the judiciary currently?
Do you ever tell Pelosi exactly what you think of her and her policies or you just tell each other?

Sorry I know I sound like some kind of crazed activist but I was just thinking if you all poured some of this energy at the wayward congress and MSM Kucinich or any real dem (as opposed to a corpo dem) might have a real chance.

Thanks for listening.

for impeachment...if there is an issue, which there always is...this is a great place to get ourselves organized to send out emails or make calls....and the sometimes heated dialogue that goes on gives us information when we do go away from du..i think many of us are active and do put our money where our mouths are..i think..

But before asking questions like that, you should familiarize yourself with the many threads that contain many mentions of people donating many dollars, making many phone calls, sending many emails, and marching many miles. That way, you could avoid embarrassing yourself with patronizing questions about how people choose to spend their time.

Welcome to DU! :hi:

such a mean spirit. Not a very nice unwelcome.

...you might try being less patronizing and judgmental when coming into the room...or weren't you aware of how you were coming off?

And if you think my reply was mean-spirited, you really HAVEN'T been here long.

what I think of her policies (and she had to listen, 'cause I was her guest that night.) Don't underestimate the level of activity (or influence) of the people on this site.

.

does not include impeachment. I told her it's absolutely imperative to bring Cheney and Bush to trial. She: more "global changes" kind of talk.

sorry guys, but it is a pipe dream. He has as much chance as ron paul.

I rather pick someone who supports 90% of what we want and win than pick someone who supports 100% of what we want and get annihilated by the Repuke slime machine.

I'm sorry, but if he's the nominee, the "Kuch the Kook" meme would spread everywhere because everything he's said and done would come under intense scrutiny by the M$M. When November comes along, he'll get destroyed and probably take a lot of Congressional Dems down with him. Sorry, but that's not an option I want.

thanks for the link

Peace IN

And I thank him and surely do stand with him regarding that.

His stances on policy are amazing, but I find it really hard to support someone who will make decisions based on his star chart and the voices he hears in his head. Astrology was a bad vehicle of foreign policy when Reagan used it, and the voices in Bush's head have been disastrous. Do we really want to continue that?

"Give kids healthcare!", "Let gays marry!", and "Stop letting Big Business rape the middle class!", then I say, "Go voices in Dennis Kucinich's head!"

He said he saw one at one time. A UFO. He didn't say he saw aliens or anything.

Haven't you ever seen a UFO in the sky?

I think the whole UFO thing is cool --- and as difficult as it was, he handled it well ---

Considering how Russert was counting on the "tin foil hat" response --- and he didn't get it!!!

Larry King had an interesting program on last night re UFO's . . .
I may have missed it, but evidently France also came out about a month ago re UFO's . . .
confirming?
The Vatican is chafing to get the info out?

They'll be a NPC event on Monday ---

Keep in mind there are many, many captains and co-pilots, notables, professionals, government and military people who will testify under oath if the Seante would call them in --

And being in a small group of people in a fascinating conversation with him. When he was asked about Kucinich, he said that he found it very telling that when Kucinich called into his show a few days ago to talk about his impeachment resolution, rather than encouraging the listeners to call their own representatives to support it, he instead used it as an opportunity to ask for money for his own campaign.

I've noticed the same thing. I'm glad that impeachment is "on the table" now, so to speak, no matter how it got there, but I have the nagging sense that it's a campaign stunt for Kucinich.

Hillary will be the Democratic candidate

I'll be returning to the Democratic party to support him in the primary - and I will not leave the party again as long as Dennis continues to play any role in it :)

I'm also very impressed with his wife - what an amazing person she is!

*returns to lurk mode again*

I believe he would not make it to day 100 of his presidency. Those damn terrorists are EVERYWHERE.

my candidate

Early on I recognized that on nearly every front Democrats have attempted to laugh off, demean and belittle Dennis Kucinich despite the fact that he was saying the things in 1999 that most Democrats have started claiming since 2004.

I haven't spent any time in Ohio in the last several decades and don't know a whole lot about Ohio politics. What little I do know doesn't impress me much...but then I am in Idaho which is a politically unimpressive place to be.

Kucinich and Edwards are the only two candidates who appear to understand that the next President is going to have a monumental task: To correct the devastation reaped by Bushtwits and Neocons over the past several years.

You will find that MANY here on DU share your view of the candidates.
I, among many here, would be more than happy to see a Kucinich/Edwards White House.
Edwards is my second choice too, but frankly, I REALLY want Dennis as my president
and as an American, I have EVERY right to cast my vote for the
person I feel is the ONLY candidate committed to taking our country
back from the MIC and the multi-mega corporations.

BHN

As long as many Dems persist in trusting water-carriers like Hoyer and Lieberman--and even Pelosi these dim-dinos will continue clogging the Legislature.

He's a huge threat to Wall Street.

I gave Kucinich 100 dollars today.
I was going to give the money to the DNC

Kucinich is a man of the people.

The good citizens of this land need someone of his caliber in the WH.

that is the whole thing MONEY, if Dennis had the money like Hillary people would have to take a second look.

remember in 2004 when everyone was behind Dean and thought he'd be the nominee, and then the nominee was Kerry, what was the mindset then, was it because people started looking at electability, or was it Kerry had more money than Dean.


But in regards to Dennis, if all those people who say he would not be nominated and voted for him, he would probably be nominated, people are too negative, why not voting for a person who has our best interests at heart.

Beam Me Up said,
I could not agree more. I have lurked here at DU since 2004 and I am beginning to get very excited by the support I'm seeing for Kucinich. He truly is the most progressive candidate since Ralph Nader, sadly an extreme rarity among the Democrats these days.

So why are progressives not rallying behind him? If Nader could get almost five percent of the vote WITHOUT EVEN BEING A MAJOR PARTY CANDIDATE, then why can't Kucinich manage to get his progressive message out to those who would be most responsive to it? How did Howard Dean's campaign cause such a stir in 2004? Wasn't it based mostly on the support from the Internet? Just like Ron Paul's? Why can't we stage a "Dennis Kucinich Day," something like Ron Paul's followers staged?

To those who say that Dennis is unelectable, that may well be. But it will CERTAINLY be the case if we adopt the defeatist attitude that the MSM wants to brainwash us into. Besides, Hillary has to choose a running mate. If Shrubya could get elected with Darth Cheney as Veep, then why couldn't Hillary get elected with Dennis on her ticket? Think about it. If we could just find a way to get his message across to enough people so that the MSM would be FORCED to pay him some respect (instead of marginalizing him by asking him irrelevant UFO questions), then he could at the very least be in position to heavily influence the party platform, even if Hillary makes a safer choice.

Please don't give up on Dennis just because the MSM have already decided that Hillary is our new President! If you believe in what Kucinich is doing, then support him in every way possible. I know that I will.

Hill would never allow DK as her running mate.
He would immediately expose her corporatist puppeteers.
Now Edwards on the other hand, MIGHT be closer to
Kucinich on the matter of taking our country back from the
MIC and global profiteers who seek to eliminate the middle class
in the US.

Sorry, I don't trust any candidate who accepts financial support
from Ruppert Murdoch... the beast of corporate owned media.

But again, welcome to DU!
BHN

I agree that Hillary would not likely choose Dennis. I just mean that whoever becomes the nominee will eventually have to find some way to contend with the Kucinich crowd IF we make enough noise (and are enough in number to be heard).

with ANY of the other Dems would make the media candidates more palatable, but the media elite corporate sponsored candidates are all CFR and Kucinich would be dangerous to their particular style of politics. Like oil and water, they don't mix.

To bad it's Hillbilly who will get th job!:(

...then he will lose.

Even Dennis Kucinich would not say that. He has more than enough actual reasons to commend him to a Democratic voter to rely on horseshit like that.

there is nothing else to say. Dennis is the only choice.

Dennis has respect for people who disagree with him.

he is so much better than the majority of the rest of us.

Now I like Kucinich and he has been one of the only Democrats with a spine, but the man doesn't have a prayer at getting the nomination.

Merely judging by the heated discussion on this forum, Kucinich *is* viable. Otherwise, there would only be patronizing responses by Hillary/Obama/Edwards supporters.

There is an important reason why Kucinich is a threat: the front-runner does not automatically get the nomination.
The runners-up often have large blocs of delegates. These are the bargaining chips of the runners-up.

Unless Hillary gets a strong majority of delegates, it is possible that the runners-up could consolidate against Hillary and throw the nomination to someone else.

So, if Kucinich has a strong showing -- no matter what his "electability" -- Hillary will be forced to bargain with him.
That is an excellent reason to vote for Kucinich, if you like his viewpoint.

I am a realist: Hillary will be our next President.

How do I know this? I knew this the day that the press announced a back-room deal between Rupert Murdoch and Clinton. Ever since then, every single news article about Clinton in the mainstream press has a tone of inevitability. Even if they are talking about Hillary's problems and obstacles,
the tone is that these are just obstacles that have to be overcome.

Even Fox News has defended Hillary against the likes of Ann Coulter. I have never seen Hannity roll over like that. Unbelievable!

And now, there are rather blatant attacks on Kucinich. What kind of question was that at the debates, anyway? What kind of lunatic even *asks* a question about seeing a UFO in a Presidential debate? What kind of reporter then *repeats* that abomination in a news broadcast? That kind of thing has Murdoch's fingerprints all over it.

Angry and horrified by the blatant manipulation of the media, I have written emails to NPR complaining about their coverage of the primaries. I suppose similar emails to other national news sources would be appropriate.

With this kind of brain washing going on for so long, people cannot help themselves. They will make statements about how we must get behind the front-runner now in order to secure the national election. That is just part of the "message". The goal is to secure nomination for Clinton without any compromises.

I'm not worried about the Democratic nominee winning the national election. I *am* worried about having a voice at the convention.

Oh, and what if there was a disaster and Kucinich was nominated? Well, he seems to have a lot in common with James Earl Carter: they are both funny looking and they have both seen a UFO.

Because Representative Kucinich had openly enjoyed restricting women's own rights to their own bodies until there was a possibility he could be the Democratic presidential nominee, I can never take him seriously as the 'progressive' candidate.

He can change tunes all he wants, but I could never support a voting record like his at the polls.

http://www.thenation.com/doc/20020527/pollitt

He has quietly amassed an anti-choice anti-choice voting record of Henry Hyde-like proportions. He supported Bush's reinstatement of the gag rule for recipients of US family planning funds abroad. He supported the Child Custody Protection Act, which prohibits anyone but a parent from taking a teenage girl across state lines for an abortion. He voted for the Unborn Victims of Violence Act, which makes it a crime, distinct from assault on a pregnant woman, to cause the injury or death of a fetus. He voted against funding research on RU-486. He voted for a ban on dilation and extraction (so-called partial-birth) abortions without a maternal health exception. He even voted against contraception coverage in health insurance plans for federal workers--a huge work force of some 2.6 million people (and yes, for many of them, Viagra is covered). Where reasonable constitutional objections could be raised--the lack of a health exception in partial-birth bans clearly violates Roe v. Wade, as the Supreme Court ruled in Stenberg v. Carhart--Kucinich did not raise them; where competing principles could be invoked--freedom of speech for foreign health organizations--he did not bring them up. He was a co-sponsor of the House bill outlawing all forms of human cloning, even for research purposes, and he opposes embryonic stem cell research. His anti-choice dedication has earned him a 95 percent position rating from the National Right to Life Committee, versus 10 percent from Planned Parenthood and 0 percent from NARAL.

When I spoke with Kucinich by phone, he seemed to be looking for a way to put some space between himself and his record. "I believe life begins at conception"--Kucinich was raised as a Catholic--"and that it doesn't end at birth." He said he favored neither a Human Life Amendment that would constitutionally protect "life" from the moment of conception, nor the overturning of Roe v. Wade (when asked by Planned Parenthood in 1996 whether he supported the substance of Roe, however, he told them he did not). He spoke of his wish to see abortion made rare by providing women with more social supports and better healthcare, by requiring more responsibility from men and so on. He presented his votes as votes not against abortion per se but against federal funding of the procedure. Unfortunately, his record does not easily lend itself to this reading: He voted specifically against allowing Washington, DC, to fund abortions for poor women with nonfederal dollars and against permitting female soldiers and military dependents to have an abortion in overseas military facilities even if they paid for it themselves. Similarly, although Kucinich told me he was not in favor of "criminalizing" abortion, he voted for a partial-birth-abortion ban that included fines and up to two years in jail for doctors who performed them, except to save the woman's life. What's that, if not criminalization?

Reality is reality. Kucinich can't win nationally. He won't win nationally. Get behind someone who can. I like Edwards. He CAN win nationally. But I WILL strongly support whomever the Dems nominate because that person will be a Godsend compared to another Republican. I urge you to do the same.

He had it when he started running though. I do think he is going to suprise many in the corporate media.