Do Kerik's Actions reflect on Rudy Guiliani: WJ this morning

Great calls so far

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2007/11/10/rivals_question_giulianis_judgment/
McCain and Romney weigh in.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/2007/11/10/2007-11-10_feds_bernard_keriks_a_scammer_who_ripped-3.html
<snip>
Bernard Kerik lied, schemed and sold out the city - all under the nose of his mentor and pal, presidential candidate Rudy Giuliani.

That is the stark portrait painted in the 16-count indictment unsealed yesterday in White Plains Federal Court almost exactly one year before Election Day 2008.

While the political fallout remains uncertain, the effect on Kerik's image as a Sept. 11 hero is devastating.



add links

I'm really starting to enjoy these WJ open lines these days...there's more whining going on there than in the Napa Valley.

Hillarious how these wingnut keep bringing up Sandy Berger...like a pavolovian response. How the hell did stealing copies of a report that was already in the public record somehow compromised the 9/11 commission and national security. These people are so full of it, they're eyes are beyond brown...and have no clue what they're talking about.

The great thing about Rudy is he negates any negative of any Democratic candidate, their husbands, friends and associates. No one is sleazier than the Ghouliani dude...none.

He may have info that we want.

I hope the trial drags on until December next year.

does ANYthing this kleptocracy (Lou Dobbs actually used that word the other day!) does surprise anyone with one quarter of a brain these days?

This neocon promotion of Rudy and his goons suggests that he knows a few secrets.

is this true?

she also said Berger stole handwritten notes from WJC, right before the 911 Commission met, implying that they were the originals, when, from what I've heard/read, only copies were taken

anyone care to straighten this question out?

caller also questioned why Rudy's involvement w/Kerik is even being discussed, and that Kerik has only just been indicted, not 'convicted,' as she claimed Berger was. didn't Berger plead to something less than a felony, as caller claimed?

you should have seen the dopey look on the 'host' as she was spewing, and of course, not correcting caller about the copies that Berger admitted to taking

Some people won't let a bad conspiracy theory go. We're referring to those who loudly assert that former NSC adviser Sandy Berger was trying to protect the Clinton Administration when he illegally removed copies of sensitive documents from the National Archives in late 2003.

On Wednesday, we quoted Justice Department prosecutor Noel Hillman that no original documents were destroyed, and that the contents of all five at issue still exist and were made available to the 9/11 Commission. But that point didn't register with some readers, who continue to suggest a vast, well, apparently a vast left- and right-wing conspiracy. The Washington Times, the Rocky Mountain News and former Clintonite Dick Morris have also been peddling dark suspicions based on misinformation.

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110006534

And, Sandy Berger has no official role in the Clinton campaign...That being said, they have all known each other for twenty plus years...

some great calls, though, about St. Rudy, so crooked I heard he's changing his name to Screwliani, as in "he's so crooked he screws his pants on".....thanks to the late, lamented Hunter Thompson for that quote. can you imagine what he'd be doing with this election?

Finally America may find out what a crook and how mobbed up Ghouliani is...and most of his strongest supporters are the biggest Clinton haters. They just react with programmed talking point...almost always never knowing what their talking about.

But, yes, that won't stop them. First...what does Hillary have to do with Sandy Berger? But then I suspect over the next year we'll hear the old cast of "characters"...Vince Foster, Webster Hubbell, Monica...and all somehow are tied to Hillary. Yep, they can't let go...it's all they've got.

How ironic these goons bitch about Berger, yet dare ask them about boooshie, cheney and rove outting a NOC deep cover CIA agent and wait for the crickets.

The Hunting of the President, Fools for Scandal, etc., rehashed in lights just as bright as those shined on them during the Inquisition--I mean impeachment

you haven't seen anything yet

did you hear about/read about the 'poll' cited on MSNBC, in which 25% of those questioned wouldn't allow Hillary to BABYSIT for their children?

who came up with THAT one?

I wonder if they'd allow Alan Paca to do likewise.....

did you hear about/read about the 'poll' cited on MSNBC, in which 25% of those questioned wouldn't allow Hillary to BABYSIT for their children?

It was asked about all the candidates...

was on a SCROLL at the bottom of the screen!

not one word about the other candidates, or the fact that she won the poll!

isn't that 'interesting?'

Tweety just couldn't let go of that one. That's him and he could't help but make it sound like ALL men hate Hillary.

Yep, I suspect we'll be in for a year of bringing up all the old "chestnuts" of the 90's...so what. Been there, done that. For the 25% dead-enders out there, let them have their hatefest...they're going to anyway. Hopefully Team Hillary will be ready to hit back and hit back hard if she wins the nomination. She not only knows this is coming, but surely has a rapid response plan in place that won't allow a Swiftboating.

The corporate media will be our biggest nemesis all the way as they live in "Conventional Wisdom" land built on right wing talking points and perceptions. But we're dealing with a media who dare not poll their own credibility in fears that it will show as poorly.

Rudy's the "great white hope"...and honestly, I'd love to see him as the nominee...his flip-flopping, lying and corruption are already documented and he can dish it out, but I don't think he can take it. Let's see how quickly Rudy and his horde recover from this news...and how he deals with it...it'll be a window into how the general election will be.

that I miss about my job was working with the forensic team. The things that the caller is saying remind me of when we would do domestic violence groups, either at the clinic or in the county jail setting. When you are discussing the ill behavior of an individual, and all he/she can do is to try to distract the discussion by saying, "Oh yeah? Well, how about so-and-so, why aren't you getting into their shit?" Nope, we're here to discuss a specific action -- in this case, a fellow who has just been indicted for serious crimes. And part of that discussion involves how his friend and business partner appointed a mobster -- and that is exactly what he is -- to a sensitive law enforcement position.

It has nothing to do with Senator Clinton or Sandy Berger. Attempts to shift focus are, at very best, an attempt to justify the criminal behavior of one man, and the failures in judgement of another.

This is orchestrated spin - shift focus.

things they do well....lie, cheat, steal, market, propagandize, kill....they do better than anyone since, well, you can fill in that blank, because you know very well where that historical analogy leads, and it's not a point to which lots of people here respond very logically

or the "so's your own" defense.

The pathology of the right wingers are an amazing thing to see. How these people can contort and turn facts inside (or just make 'em up) like the finest Olympic gymnast. It gets worse the more their shown to be both ignorant and hypocrites.

At first, I didn't think Kerik would be a liability since so much of this slime had been known (at least to those in and around NYC) and that the right wing will look the other way no matter what as long as Rudy remains their "great white hope". But the fact he's getting attacked not by Democrats by on his own flank is what's hurting. McCain bringing up Kerik as being a "coward" in Iraq is probably the most damaging, but it opens a door...one Rudy better shut fast or he'll be cut to shreads by his own.

Berger is a pavlovian talking point...as are virtually every mention of a "Clinton scandal". Of course, these goons will never admit that there were no convictions and the Clinton record is stellar compared to any Repugnican regime since Eisenhower.

Cheers...

the same way they did Bush's in 2000...they'll mention them once or twice, then allow them to die on the vine.

Harken Oil?

SEC violations?

pot/coke?

TANG?

SCI Funeral Scandal?

Texas CHIPS?

TAAS fraud?

who knows anything about that?

I remember calling Jim Warren's WGN radio show when Ron Fournier was a guest, and asking them if they recognized the name Eliza May, and they didn't. when I reminded them that Bush gave conflicting testimony on that subject, the same offense, basically, for which WJC had his law license suspended, they laughed it off, claiming not to be familiar with the details.

earlier in the show, Fournier had called the Clintons "hillbillies"

media coverage will be as bad, if not worse, than it's been in each succeeding election cycle

Definitely not like boooshie boy in 2000. He was the annointed one by this time in the campaign cycle. Rudy has, as we're starting to see, some enemies within the GOOP camp who may just use the Kerik situation to bring out all his other messes. We only have two months to the first primary votes and it's McCain and Mittens who need to dirty Rudy up bad if they stand any chance to pick up the big bonanza of delegates on Feb. 5. Rudy's strategy (as is Hillarys) is to wrap things up with big wins in Illinois, New York, California and the other states on "Tsunami Tuesday"...why he's not really working hard in Iowa or New Hampshire. If Rudy gets bloodied, that strategy could go out the window.

I've long given up on Chicago radio...except for WCPT and Public Radio (Wisconsin Public radio is excellent) and from looking at ratings and other data, I'm not the only one tuning it out. Those tuned in already have their minds set...especially on the hate stations...it's a stale script that just keeps getting recycled. But now with diminishing returns.

The Corporate Media (they surely don't reflect the "Main Street" or "mainstream" in my town) is looking at the ratings...the confrontation. Their nightmare is a blow out...no one will watch. Thus as long as Hillary remains strong and the "front runner", she's gonna get shot at in the corporate media to generate some kind of reaction. The issue isn't if these things are gonna happen, but who it will influence. I submit that the right wing hate machine has run out of magic bullets...but like caged animals, they won't go down easily.

Cheers...

but I think the media fix is already in for Rudy.

EDIT...all we can do is wait and see

I hope you're right, because, as bad as a Hillary/Obama regime would be, Guiliani's reich will be the final nail in 'democracy's' coffin; I just think the media are waiting til after the nominations are set, which will be Feb 5, at the latest, to really focus on Hillary, and resume the Giuliani hagiographies/record cleansing

I completely agree on Chicago radio situation (and listen to WPR when I can get the signal), except I don't listen to WCPT anymore, other than Sunday (Sam Seder). can't stand Bill Press, can't take Randi anymore....and most political talk makes me sick to my stomach

I forced myself to listen to Paul Krugman vs. Joe Morris and Milt Rosenberg last night, and almost had an aneurism. Milt called one of Krugman's book passages Marxist, and they both referred to health care in civilized nations (not this one, of course) as Socialism. Krugman, not always a great debater, nailed both of them quite effectively when they tried to slip some BS past him when it involved more than a superficial understanding of the economics of medicare/social security, and a few other things. very satisfying

are you familiar with Joe Morris, btw? delusional wingnut lawyer/faux historian/'economist', and Rosenberg's pet expert when dealing with those he feels unable to counter by himself

ha

Now that show is a neo-con haven. I tuned in a couple months ago and heard a "discussion" on the "benefits" of bombing Iran. Sadly, Milt, like some of my Jewish bretheren think this country must defend Israel like a 51st state...the show lacks the intellgient spark it once had.

I've seen Morris...IRC, he's a Tucker Carlson wannabe...on Bruce DuMont's TV show. I agree, he's delusional, but he still doesn't hold a candle to Tom Roesser (I've got some funny stories about that asshat).

I'm in the NW burbs and WPR is now aired out of Elgin at 88.9 FM...and generally the only WCPT I regularly tune in is Stephanie Miller. I've long wished the station would do some local programming (even talked about it with the station manager...a friend of mine) but the company is cheap and prefers the free network programming to paying for a local staff and show.

Most times now I'm listening to Internet Radio...there's another thread here on the new wireless internet radios...and listen to Pacifica and NovaM as well at WCPT at night (they run Malloy).

Cheers...

his show is still quite good when he stays away from politics

I heard James Watson, btw, when he was on, just before his remarks got him fired. he made the very same statement on WGN, all of which Milt agreed with, including praise for....the Bell Curve!!! very crazy stuff, with MR being a social psychologist. he's way round the bend. I've called the show many times. talked with/laughed at Morris, the night Alan Keyes announced, and the guests were making predictions about how close he'd come/possibly beat Obama. I said he wouldn't come within thirty points, and made fun of their delusions.

also talked to Ann coulter, and read from a website citing all the lies she told in "Treason," which she was pushing at the time. he let me stay on for at least ten minutes, part of which included a 'dressing down' for giving the screener a phony question, so I'd get on the air. I told him he should know I'd never had gotten on the air if I'd asked an oppositional question.

anyway....

call I made some sort of reference as to how he actually didn't sound crazy for a change, and everybody on the panel laughed hard

I also have a videotape of my call to David Schippers on the show. (it's on the other Chicago public TV station) he was pushing his book, and I said I would've loved to have gotten somebody on the stand (can't remember who at the moment) during impeachment, cause they'd have blown the lid off. this, after telling Bruce what a good laugh I was having. at the very end, I asked Schippers how his own girlfriend was doing.

his response: "You go to HELL, sir!"

that, unfortunately, remains a high point of my sad life

first story up at Google News today

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2007/11/09/post_192.html?hpid=topnews



The long-anticipated indictment of former New York police commissioner Bernard Kerik was expected to provide an opening for political rivals of Kerik's mentor, Rudy Giuliani, and the first one to seize it was John McCain.

Speaking in New Hampshire, McCain did not focus on the list of particulars in today's indictment, which centered around allegations that Kerik accepted $165,000 worth of renovations, as well as free rent, on apartments in New York and failed to pay taxes on the favors. Instead McCain zeroed in on Kerik's brief tenure in 2003 as the person in charge of training Iraq's police force, an endeavor that in hindsight has been widely judged a failure. It was after his return from that assignment that President Bush nominated Kerik as his Homeland Security secretary, in December 2004, based on a strong recommendation from Giuliani. The nomination was withdrawn amid a stream of revelations that led eventually to a 2006 misdemeanor plea by Kerik and today's indictment.

"I don't know Mr. Kerik. I do know that I went to Baghdad shortly after the initial victory and met in Baghdad with (Ambassador Paul) Bremer and (Lt. Gen. Ricardo) Sanchez. And Kerik was there. Kerik was supposed to be there to help train the police force. He stayed two months and one day left, just up and left," McCain told reporters traveling on his campaign bus, according to the Associated Press. "That's why I never would've supported him to be the head of homeland security because of his irresponsible act when he was over in Baghdad to try and help train the police. One of the reasons why we had so much trouble with the initial training of the police was because he came, didn't do anything and then went out to the airport and left."

Former Homeland Security secretary Tom Ridge, the man Kerik was supposed to replace, was traveling with McCain and said Giuliani's recommendation of Kerik betrayed a fundamental misunderstanding of the difference between the responsibilities of a mayor and president. "It was clear the mayor and I had a different view what the department does and the kind of leadership it needed," Ridge told reporters, according to the A.P. "His judgment would've been different than mine."
"We're not talking about some urban city patronage job," Ridge added. "

and that they should get Ed Koch on CSpan since he coined that phrase. Bwaaaaaaaaaaaaah :rofl:

have bought into the St. Rudy of 911 mythos

so has MSNBC, even as regards Kerik.

check this story out, in the vein of "what's wrong with this headline?"

http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/13538.html

make sure to read the comments...there are a few that are quite amusing, including the one that said The Today Show reported the Kerik indictment without mentioning Rudy at all!

:hi:

obvious, yet not very widely acknowledged comment:


At least for now, it’s encouraging to see McCain use the Kerik scandal against Giuliani; I have no idea why the other Republican presidential hopefuls aren’t doing the same. The controversy is a campaign-ender — if Thompson, Romney, Huckabee, & Co. want to make the race more competitive, they’ll seize this opportunity to expose Giuliani as a fraud.


http://www.thecarpetbaggerreport.com/archives/13541.html

Rudy’s going to be awfully easy to kick around, and every time he does, we’re a step closer to him losing it in a way that will make the Dean Scream look like the nothing it was.
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I'm stocking up on popcorn in anticipation of Rudy losing it. Hope it's live on TeeVee.
:rofl: :popcorn:

not to be a wet blanket, but I don't think it'll get much coverage.

there's already a bunch out there...stuff from his radio show when he was mayor

have you heard/seen the stuff about the ferret guy?

check youtube

:rofl:

This one is great - the real Rudy at work
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMzPvSpJ1Z8

add.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/10/opinion/10collins.html?_r=2&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&ref=opinion&adxnnlx=1194703741-DDFcAffbruFnMct07CYidQ

Rudy and Bernie: B.F.F.'s

and it's a battle between who can be the biggest liar and crook. My money has always been on Juliana, but Hypocrite Huckabee is a close second on the two-faced conniver scale. Makes Robot Romney look like an altar boy. (They're waiting for Mach III in the Romney line--that one will have AI.)