If You Were A Conservative Operative Wanting To Disrupt This Site ..

.. and its legitimate political conversations, wouldn't you just claim
to be a disgruntled progressive outraged by all the "sell-outs" running
the Democratic Party? Or use just that as a justification for attacking
those running for this party's presidential nomination?

That way you could regurgitate GOP attack garbage all day long
without the least fear of being called out on it by the authorities
that be.

I call it the Nader Gambit. GOP funded disinformation disguised to
appear as "progressive politics," but with the destruction of the
Democratic Party as its real aim.

Happens here all the time.

:kick:

That would be one popular strategy.

one would have to do is call members of the Democratic Party "Purists" and say we need their "coalition" cause the Democrats have a "big tent".

And they're not really warmongering, corporatewhore shills..not really.

"concern" posts. "We are making ourselve look bad to the other side when we say things like__________"(fill in blank).

The one described in the OP is "Democratic politician X looks too much like the other side! They should be radical!"

you could just BE... a disgruntled progressive outraged by all the "sell-outs" running the Democratic Party.

Happen all the time as well.

:shrug:

Or, as a conservative operative, I could spend my time at DU cheer-leading for Hillary or Obama, knowing that electing one of them would be nearly as good as electing a republican.

And then I'd spend more time denying that elections are fixed, echoing the theme that impeachment is a distraction and scoffing at posts that say the country is about a half step away from a totalitarian lock down.

Then I'd suggest that Iran might really be a threat, that the tide is turning in Iraq, that Pelosi, Hoyer, Reid et al are political masterminds, and that the democratic strategy of overt cowardice mixed with the total lack of demonstrable principles is a winner for '08.


wp

:yourock:

Clinton and Obama and that practically no one here denies election fraud. Other than that, you're theory is perfect.

As for the claim that we're half a step away from martial law, yep, I think that's unlikely.

How many people here voice the opinion that Iran is a threat? Three, four? Nor have I seen people calling the leadership political masterminds. No one claims the tide is turning in Iraq.

But hey, you were accurate about 1 out 8.

Frankly, I think the obsession with who's a troll or not, is just funny.

$171 million to their combined campaigns -- unless you assume that the entire american corporate infrastructure has suddenly lost its collective mind and started bribing progressives. And I would further assert that the Barry Goldwater conservative, an honorable and decent type albeit with somewhat twisted priorities about domestic spending and wars of aggression, is on life-support in today's political spectrum.

So who exactly are these conservatives who detest Obamery? The wingnuts on pundit pap TV? The editorial board of the WSJ? The denizens of the prototypical American corporate boardroom? Not if you actually follow what these "experts" are saying, and not if you follow the dollars.

Re martial law: Until we're rid of the patriot acts, the military commissions act, various repressive executive orders and presidential directives, HR-1955, the TSA, the NSA, the DHS and Blackwater -- to name a few of the worst offenders -- that all the pieces are in place to give legal cover for imposition of a dictatorship, under the guise of the unitary executive and backed by local, state and federal law enforcement organizations and, if necessary, various paramilitary groups which operate outside any Constitutional protections still on the books. And don't forget that the military commissions act voided posse comitatus, which means that federal troops can now operate on US soil against US citizens.

Re election fraud, Iran and Iraq, I'm simply pointing out some lines I'd take if I were a conservative troll. Although I would be roundly ridiculed for taking these positions, I'd take care to support them with the kinds of warped statistics mass media uses to instill fear-based compliance among its viewers/readers.

Re the Democratic leadership as masterminds: That's a position taken by many posters on DU, although their numbers seem to be in decline as events demonstrate the absurdity of the claim. Any thread that points out Pelosi/Reid/Hoyer's gross incompetence, lack of courage or complicity in BushCo's agenda is immediately festooned with counterarguments about how they're manipulating events to their advantage and we'll all see their brilliance when the 2008 returns are in. I wouldn't be surprised to find your name among those posts, although maybe you've switched positions recently.

On edit: Oops, just saw a post on your journal touting Leahy as the man for the times. After watching his committee propel BushCo darling and torture denier Michael Mukasey's nomination to the full Senate, and then watching Reid fail to do anything to stop the Senate from approving Mukasey, I'm right there with Leahy as the man of the hour.

And I don't obsess about who's a troll. If I did, I'd use the ignore button, which I've yet to do for anyone since I first arrived at DU in 2001.


wp

As an operative, you suck!

-Hoot

Well, yeah... Being a rank amateur, I'd expect to suck. I'm just trying to get my chops up to speed in hopes of getting hired for the big bucks by the RNC (or the DLC, since they're largely indistinguishable) as a professional troll.

So thanks for blowing the whistle; you've probably screwed me out of untold fame and fortune.

Meanwhile, have one of these :toast:



wp

and apparently more true than the OP.

Absolutely perfect.

quoting his Senate records out of context, his HAIR, his HOUSE, and make nasty comments about trial lawyers.

How did I do?

Edwards runs attacks on Hillary that are identical to RNC attacks. No worry about supporting Edwards because he'll never win anyway.

It is amazing to me that people are here who claim to hold the views that have identified the Democratic party for decades who then bash anyone who doesn't support their southern strategy version of the democratic party.

I recently posted a link to Robt Parry, who is no conservative, and who lost his job trying to out the repukes over Iran/Contra. He says the problem with the dems is that they are pandering to moderate repukes hoping to win them over.

is this part of that strategy?

I have voted democratic all my life. I have always voted for someone (except for Gore) that I really didn't support, but did it because of the option. So now democrats get to hear that if they complain about what the party is doing they're trolls?

I wish I had a smilie for "kiss my ass."

and btw, cali, Rover said he wanted Hillary to run, so it's not incorrect to think the rat fuckers would support her. They want to be able to smear her like the jism on their pants from their latest trips to the mens room at the airport.

maybe a way to disrupt would be to create a post like this, or a thread like this one. nothing like a little paranoia to get the juices going in the morning.

what you say I said.

would be a great cover for a troll because Edwards uses the same attacks as the repukes.

by extension, your statement would be one used to cast doubts on anyone who supports Edwards or has issues with other candidates' votes or stances. So for that I say "bite me."

Have I misunderstood what you said? My answer was directed at the whole issue of this bullshit thread and the idea that you cannot be a democrat if you don't kowtow to every move they make. I find it highly insulting that anyone who claims to be a democrat would stoop to such desperate McCarthy-ite tactics. This is the same sort of thing that McCarthy did... if you were not his sort of american, then you were a soviet lover or some such crap. here the thread is.. if you disagree with what the democrats are doing you are a troll.

you know, by the same token, I can say anyone who is a democrat who doesn't excoriate the current party (at the least Finestein and Schumer and Lieberman) is guilty of crimes againsts humanity by their acquiescence, or by their demand that you support party above all. Democrats did not defend the constitution on FISA or put impeachment out there for fucking CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY!!!!!!!!!!!

but of course, only trolls would be upset by this.

as I've said on this site before, the most important measures taken by the democrats have NOT been ones that the party would easily support, such as the civil rights acts. Those happened because MLK was courageous and Johnson knew, as did Kennedy, that the issue was not going to go away, that it was the right thing to do in a democracy, but also that the dems were going to alienate the southern vote, the dixiecrats, for a generation.

so why do I get the feeling there is an extremist wing of the democratic party that wants to appease the republicans... for nothing, btw, if recent history is any clue.

get it? thanks for trying to marginalize democrats who don't agree with you.

The discussion is over which tactics a freeper would use if trolling. Would he attack from the left or the right? Notice the statement you responded to was itself a response to another poster who theorized a troll would oppose Edwards. Is that person trying to marginalize me? I don't think so.

Nobody, anywhere ever on DU said you can't be a Democrat if "you don't kowtow to every move they make." I do read large numbers of posts from people who claim they've been told that. My guess its a combination of paranoia and hyper-sensitivity.

"By extension" is a bad way to interpret statements.

Sorry, but the truth is the truth. The Democratic leadership is corrupt, and a good chunk of Democrats are indeed sell out corporate shills.

The democrats who fail to uphold their oversight duties...

The democrats who cave to Bush's every whim.

Sorry, no. This isn't about party. It is about country.

but to suggest there arent progressives that are dis-satisfied with the status quo of the democratic party... well...
thats just foolish and near sighted.

there will be more elections after 2008(i hope, haha) , just remember that... im sure progressives who feel disinfranchised will.

... discuss the content of the message and the principles upon which such a stance is taken. God forbid we actually place values and principles on a more respected level than merely smearing each other!

Who can fling feces further and harder?

Lots of people think that who aren't Repuke operatives, but it's a great way to "cozy up to the bar."

Some of us have realized that. But there really truly is a segment of DU who are progressives working to destroy the Democratic Party. We're under attack from the left and the right, just as in 2000. Same enemies now as then.

thats what your attitude is...


just say what you want to say...

Believe what we believe exactly or get out!

maybe u should go back to germany.

Calling them a Nazi (or so not subtly) for pointing out the mission and rules of DU is actually against DU rules. And, in addition, posters on DU are supposed to support Dem candidates. Disagreement is fine, sabotage and propaganda isn't. And, you DO have to not publicly slam the Dem candidate (whomever she or he may be) on here. I'm NOT a Dem, I'm a member of the DSA.

who decides something is propaganda?

find something to the contrary of what somebody posts, then post it and get it corrected... if not dont attack the messenger for not falling into line and ignoring a flaw of someone.

just think, through the eyes of a right winger, everything anyone says here is propaganda...

does that mean its wrong or untrue?

im a registered democrat, and i dont have to praise people i dont want to praise.

like i said in another post in this thread, i dont agree with making personal attacks on people but issues and things relating to their political career/ethics is up for discussion IMHO.

Those who are working to destroy the Democratic Party through deceit and sowing dissension are the ones who are using the techniques that are anathema in a free society.

In a free society, each Party states its case to the people, and the people choose to support it or not based on honest statements of policy and plans.

Parties who cannot win the allegiance of enough voters to gain power, in a democracy, should stand aside and work harder and respect the rule of law and the democratic processes.

In today's America, two factions are working to destroy the party that actually has the allegiance of the majority of the American people. The left and the right are working to destroy the Democratic Party. They are using techniques of agitprop, hiring provocateurs and infiltrators and propagandists. Factions on the left are being as dishonest and un-American as factions on the right have been and are.

The history of the Democratic Party is righteous and proud. It is a history that is supportive of liberties, rights, human needs, and protections that benefit both the world and our land -- nothing remotely akin to the fascism you assign to Democrats here.

I challenge you to study the Third Reich and study the history of the Democratic Party before you engage in name-calling.

its pretty simple to me.

im just as much a democrat as anyone else whos registered as one but i have a right to think or believe whatever i want.
i believe the system is now inherantly corrupt. am i saying all democrats are corrupt? lord no, infact way less so than the republicans.. hence why im a democrat...
but to sit here and pretend that some big players in our party arent motivated by MONEY just as much as the majority of republicans are is insanity and trying to squelch that being pointed out is wrong.

i agree, nobody should make personal attacks on someone because they disagree with them... BUT they have every right to point out political or issue flaws.
this is a discussion forum after all.


the germany comment was only in the context of someone trying to put down dissention or differing thought for the sake of a political party, not an ideaology or way of life.

youre silly for thinking i was comparing the democratic party to the nazi party tho. im not sure where u see me drawing that analogy.

True Democrats here are simply asking non-Democrats to stop using gutter politics in their effort to destroy the Democratic Party.

A faction (progressives, conservatives, whatever) should have enough pride in its ideology and ENOUGH CONFIDENCE IN DEMOCRACY to present itself to the American people honestly and fairly.

If the voters prefer the Democratic Party, another faction should not undermine elections, infiltrate with thugs, catapult propaganda, swiftboat, etc. The left should not engage in political thuggery. The right should not engage in political thuggery. To do so is to admit no respect for the expressed will of the American people.

Let's clean it up, progressives. Let's be honorable, conservatives.

how do you define that?

ur coming off a bit elitest, dontcha think ?

once again i state, im just as much as a democrat as anyone else here... and my registration in the democratic party since i was 18 is all the proof i need.

who are these "True" democrats u speak of if people with dissenting viewpoints from the mainstream poltical arena are not?

people whine and complain about progressives who went to the green party but i really think that threads like this are PROVING why they went to the green party.

im a democrat and ill always remain a democrat(unless i leave the country for obvious reasons).
if you think im gonna sit back and not complain about corporate and financial influence ON OUR PARTY, then you are just as nuts as the people we are trying to get outa office.

does anybody really think this is about being a certain faction? its not. i know alot of people would like to make it a war of ideaology and split the party.. but its not.
Its about certain canidates who are our frontrunners BEING CORPORATE MONEY SHRILLS. not moderate. not centrist.
if we want money and big business to continue to decide the direction of american politics, then fine... lets leave the way things are well alone... but if your as sick of american politics over the last 50 years as i am... then by god youll stand up and do something about it.

stop trying to create this false war between centrists and progressives. there is none. only money backed special interest whod like nothing more than to watch us fight and bicker so they can take control ONCE AGAIN.

the cycles gotta end sometime.



i dunno...
maybe i just need to talk to some of those "True" democrats .... maybe you could mention a few names i could reach out to for help at worshipping money over the will of the people.

Let's see, I've voted solidly democratic in every election since Jimmy Carter in the early 1970s-- up to 2004 when John Kerry ran for president on a co-opted republican war-on-terror platform. Yes, I want to destroy the democratic party-- I want to destroy what the democratic party has become and restore it to the fundamental values that once distinguished it from the republican party. Today's democratic party is largely to the right of Richard Nixon-- you're damned right I'd like to see THAT party destroyed. I want the democratic party of FDR, Kennedy, LBJ, and Jimmy Carter back-- and yes, I know that party was neither monolithic nor wholly liberal, but IT was a party I could fit into and hope to work with toward change in America. Today's corporate tool democratic party is a sham-- it is NOT the democratic party I devoted all that loyalty to.

Does that make me a GOP operative? Only if that includes an equal desire to destroy the corporate-theocrat tool republican party, too.

leaders are doing. They are abandoning us, and if you think that's fine, then it is you, IMO who are just as much a part of the problem.

family have been faithful to for several generations. My democratic leaders are doing a fine job of that all by themselves.

self-destructed over the issue of slavery, as Northern and Western Whigs could not agree with their Southern counterparts on a aingle party policy regarding slavery.

I actually think it may be time to start thinking about the "destruction of the Democratic Party." at least as we have known it until now. As long as imperialist war mongers like Hillary and torture-enablers like Feinstein are part of the "Democratic Party." what purpose does the party as a party really serve any longer? Oh yeah, lest my comments heretofore seem unduly misogynistic, don't let me forget torture enabler Chuck Schumer either.

I mean, really, why doesn't the Democratic Party leadership show some cojones and expel Feinstein and Schumer for voting with the Repukes on the Senate Judiciary Committee on Mukasey's nomination? Could someone please explain why anyone would want to call themselves a Democrat any longer after that disgusting display by Feinstein and Schumer?

I am cursed to live in Jane "War Pig" Harman's Congressional District and I used to console myself that every two years Harman would face a primary challenge from a progressive like Marcy Winograd. But now one of my "Democratic" senators has voted for a torture-enabling Eichmann. Un-friggin-believable. What purpose does the Democratic Party as we know it serve any longer?

If you want the iron fist of your imperialism hidden in a velvet glove, you'll be a member of the Democratic Party in 2007 and beyond.

check out freerepublic.com

:eyes:

:eyes:

sorry

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Sure the site seems to be modeled after DU, but I don't see anyone bashing DU there and I see several familiar names of people who post there who are also committed DUers. I don't think it is fair to call all of them disrupters. Just because you might not agree with them on everything does not make them disrupters.

Another way to do it would be to undermine people who actually deliver a progressive message!

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

... so does that make Hillary the equivalent of Ralph??? Funny how the standards change - when some DUers applaud that she got his contribution - so it didn't go to the GOP. (Except he's got enough to do both.)

Hillary! Hillary!!! Hillary!!!!!!

:sarcasm:

This is getting to be "The Day Of The Long Noses."

She was raised on GOP money.

GOP money sent her to college.

Get over it.

How come you didn't mention that?

making false claims about Democrats -- for example, saying there was no difference between Bush and Gore -- to lure them to his party instead. And the effect is to help the Rethugs and undermine the causes that drew people to Nader in the first place.

sue the Service Employees International Union

...if he does the work of conservatives.

LoZo,

I am giving you a personal invitation to please read my post 151 in this thread: I honestly would love to hear your response in a PM or on the thread. Thanks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2255918&mesg_id=2259531

I'm a 4th generation yellow dog, I love being a Democrat, but I'm being screwed by my own and I'll make the party I've worked for and donated to answer for their abandonment.

when the Dems took control of congress?

I can understand the frustration, but some of the name calling and accusations are over the top. It's become easier for bad elements to come on the board disguise and criticize all they want.

:shrug:

Democrats here ran down Angelides 24/7.(Just like they shredded Gray Davis before him) Careful what you wish for.

:eyes:

Just what we need...a dose of "if you're not for us, you're against us" mentality... :eyes:

Do you, perchance, have any evidence of the "GOP funded disinformation"?

... attempting to sap our vital juices! :eyes:

Truth: Disgruntled dems are speaking out
in clubs and county meetings EVERYWHERE.

"Centrists": You WILL be "LIEBERMANNED"!

You may be able to hold on for one more
cycle, but the people MUST have redress.

all the while labeling all the disgruntled progressives as trolls.

and then post all kinds of crazy shit about nukes in the World Trade Centers, and chemtrails poisoning our air.

Sid

I call it the McCarthy Gambit, and you can find an example of it on the greatest page list right now.

..."a list of known conservatives" posting here? :eyes:

No better way to ruin the Democratic party than from within, and that's what Hillary and the DLC are doing.

who disagrees with any of the candidates on any grounds is a conservative operative wanting to disrupt this site. For crying out loud, who are we supposed to be goosestepping behind today? Are we expected to DLC or progressive today?

Listen up. Many people on this board do not find all the candidates equally enchanting for a number of reasons. As long as * hasn't formally declared himself Fuhrer and designated Blackwater as the SS, then I reserve the right so speak my mind about any candidate in any party. I don't know about the GOP talking point business, but it sure feels there's too much of this type of post also. The best way to shut down a thread you don't like is to ignore it, don't respond, or don't read it to begin with. Just don't demand that people stop disagreeing with you or the candidate of your choice.

.. regurgitating GOP talking points?

There is a difference, you know. The hate pointed by some of the people on this site
at Democratic candidates rivals anything to be found on any rightwing site including
Free Republic.

My take is that this place has been badly compromised by rightwingers who gained
access to this site by claiming to be disgruntled "progressives."

Please tell me that I'm allowed to say this, sir.

anyone else can. I have a couple of candidates I will not support and am vocal about it. One of them is HRC. Don't like her policies, her war votes, and her connections to big business lobbyists. I'm a registered Democrat, active locally, and proudly a liberal progressive/progressive liberal. Once in a great while, I'll happen to agree with someone on the right. Hasn't happened in a while. However, my point is that I reserve my right to express my opinions especially when they may be registered as dissent. I've earned the title of crotchety old contrarian and intend to keep it. You are free to say anything you wish.

self destruction in the leadership.

Nader's a tool, but so too are those who cave on a repeated basis.

IN the end, the regime's figures are the biggest evil of all, but it does not absolve the enablers.


BTW-- the more odious voices I find are those who play the "chess game" card.

The "we don't have the votes" crowd who clearly miss the point of bringing information out to the masses. They are married to the idea that those within the Beltway somehow know better.

Lemmings all.

who are pro-torture, pro-occupation of Iraq, pro-corporate, anti-civil liberty, etc.,

so you attack those of us progressives who are outraged at what goes on in our names?

If you were a person who made such attacks, you'd be a fool. Or a tool. Or both.

*sigh*

Not into goose-stepping, thank you anyway.

they will before the 2008 election. No dirty trick is too dirty for them.

The #1 priority would be to turn as many potential Democratic voters as possible against the nominee and the party. The most effective way to do that is attack from the left.

Where possible, it would also benefit them to have disinformation about Democrats and Democratic nominees flowing from both sides.

and one is a disrupter posing as a disgruntled progressive, what's the difference. You certainly aren't suggesting that disgruntled progressives stop complaining? I think we here all agree that the BushCorp administration is ruining the country. When the Democrats support this effort, like confirming Mukasey or giving immunity to law breaking telecoms, then all Democrats should be complaining.

We get people who ideologically would be more at home in the Socialist Workers Party or working for Nader, for the same reason the GOP gets some right-leaning libertarians. Our electoral politics gives an essential lock to two major parties. As a result, the small and extreme factions have a hard choice between working with a third party that has no power, such as the Libertarian Party or the Socialist Workers Party, or working in one of the two major parties where inevitably they feel disaffected. Personally, I would like to see the US change its electoral mechanisms so that third parties had a real role to play. I don't see that happening any time soon.

:hippie:

Go to Free Republic and you don't see it.

Freedom of speech, ain't it grand. As TJ said, the solution is more speech. They just give us a chance to post answers.

All the "Democrats are spineless" posts strike me like this - who would say that about a party they support? And they are better than repukes and reality is reality.

like yours that assists the democrat neo-liberals who, as we all know, are enablers of the status quo. The only hope for change lies in electing a democrat who isn't a neo-liberal, the very thing you attack, in your post.

you'd have to put up with a multitude of accusations such as the OP's AND try to stay and be positive and try to keep building the coalition at the same time.

the Democratic Party.

But I am certainly NOT a conservative. :rofl:

Kinda blows that theory right outta the water, eh?

I would put up an OP just like yours!!!! :evilgrin: :toast: :silly:

NO. It fucking well doesn't happen here all the time. Matter of fact, it doesn't happen her any of the time.

PS hey, Sparky, some people just don't agree with every single thing you post. That doesn't make them paid reptoid operatives.

If I were a "Consevative Operative" (whatever the hell that is) I would not waste any effort on this site.

disrupt this site, I would make claims like you just did to try to discredit anyone who might be frustrated with the party.

And yes, it's happened here for years.

A lot of the people who are despondent about their party are well-respected DUers who have been here a long time, and have even started very good, liberal threads.

Conservatives almost can't help revealing themselves by early posts. Long term infiltration is probably so rare as to be negligible.

I would post nothing but attacks on all leading candidates.

Edwards, Biden, and Dodd are also good candidates.

But I guess I'm still a potential troll in some people's eyes because I left out the frontrunners, lol.

I was a Kucinich supporter for a while, simply because I disliked all the "viable" ones. I went Richardson-Kucinich-Edwards-Biden so far. But there do exist a few who seem more interested in attacking the frontrunners than in supporting their candidate. I apologize if I insulted all Kucinich supporters there--here on DU, it can be difficult to single out elements of a group without insulting the entire group in the process.

You would constantly bemoan the leftists, hippies, etc. and claim they have been the downfall of the party.

You would bemoan "progressive politics" and make traditional Democratic Party values seem radical.

There are some psyops going on in a few areas, not just one.
Party splitting is an old art, as are ratfucking and planted stories.


The best thing to do is lighten up and try to stay on topic, maybe even posting what is GOOD about your candidate rather than the EVILS of the other candidates. I will personally try to be a net positive influence. Sometimes the hardest thing is to refrain from posting when you really want to tear into someone.

If one finds themselves defending the indefensible, just because it is their candidate, that is a warning sign...
And we should try to keep the mischaracterizations and insults to the minimum. "It sucks to be you" posts don't help in this regard.


Ain't I just a nanny today? Dayyum.

self delete

On DU, your goal would be to demoralize and alienate the progressives so they would not campaign/volunteer/donate to the nominee. I would take a two-pronged strategy. One alt to be a moderate dick like Zandor, and one alt to post nonsense about every candidate who might possibly be the nominee.

I doubt that's what they're actually doing, but given that Ron Paul--the most conservative man to run for President in perhaps decades--polls competitively with Hillary Clinton here, they may as well be.

I have been a life long democrat. However, I am not shutting up when our party allows an Attorney General appointment to a man who won't go on record that torture is CURRENTLY against the law (WATERBOARDING IS TORTURE).

I will not just remain silent when they vote to support Joe 'the traitorous slime ball Libermann' resolution to deem Iran's independent military, a terrorist organization - providing cover for Bush to start another war. This one that could turn into WWIII.

If you want to pretend that this is okay, fine. But, don't you dare call people on this board undercover Repukes for cyring foul against this insanity.

I might talk about how "crazy," "batty," and "kooky" progressives and leftists are. Or I might pretend to be against a certain Republican while very subtly promoting him and leaving links to right-wing sites, which is exactly what I believe at least one individual has been doing on several threads. For those who have nothing better to do than try to ruin a community they don't agree with or promote their values through deception, there are many potential ways to get the job done.

I am way more tired of the mudslinging between the various candidates' camps than of the ongoing tension on what tactics best serve our mission. The latter is necessary; the former is just destructive.

No, we should not be as "disciplined" (fascist) as the GOP, but we can come up with an 11th Commandment about how to criticize each other w/o crossing the line and impeding our own progress on the issues.

For me, issues are more important than who wins the primary, because whoever wins the primary is our only chance of making progress nationwide.

:bounce::applause::bounce:

and rack up nonsense, meaningless post numbers.

Then you would "go to work".

Lounge posts shouldn't count toward your overall post count. That forum is how trolls rack up their post counts.

ridiculing progressives.

Especially after this thread.

If I were a "Conservative Operative" wanting to disrupt this site, I'd come in as an innocent centrist injured by the suggestion that centrism is not "progressive," or that the third way, corporatism, or other neolib junk is not "mainstream democratic party" stuff.

Then I'd proceed to spend all day on DU started many threads about the centrist candidates, loudly proclaiming them to be liberals at every opportunity, and making sure that their threads own the front page, in spite of the fact that they have a minority of support at DU.

I'd add a few posts deriding the other candidates, baiting their supporters, and then gleefully enter into battle.

If there were signs that I was not achieving enough "shift" on the board, I'd turn up the pressure by suggesting that anyone who doesn't march in a corrupt party line is a "conservative operative."

And paint the rest of us as "loony left"

I think it's coming from both ends. And I don't think it's intentional most of the time.
:shrug:

if there's union pay and medical benefits! :rofl:

An individual will do little but troll along. Many covert identities and coordinated activity might have an impact. That budget goes to important stuff, like infiltrating campaigns and eavesdropping on the real Dems.

and defend the corporatist tools who pretend to be Democrats.

I call it the Lieberman Gambit.

Happens here all the time.

That and they pick a candidate to pretend to support them all the while bashing the other candidates.

:bounce:

concerned with the Party being taken over by fringe leftist.

Your post is tripe and flamebait, and I personally have wondered about YOU.Easy to cast aparagus, isn't it?

:evilfrown:

and be sure to use the codeword "Nader"

:shrug:

The hidden enemy syndrome when dissenters voice their concerns.

they don't like flies off the 1st pg. at the speed of light.

It's a dead give away.

"you promote progressive ideas on a progressive site, therefore you must be a conservative plant. You can't be a REAL democrat, like me, who supports enabling the current administration's power grabs by being defeatist on fighting it. Oh, no, I"m the real democrat: the one that says you shouldn't fight the republicans. You should keep your powder dry"

Who orchestrates this logical argument for them? Inmates at Bedlam?

the REAL conservative disruptors have taken the party to the right.

But, oh damn, better try and malign those on DU who still believe in a Democratic Party which fights for the American worker and peace.

If I were a conservative operative I would support people running as democrats who are closest to my ideals...ie Hillary and the like.

Then I'd post the whole damned thing, so all the anti-Democratic digs and right-wing talking points would be positioned on DU's bandwidth, and it'd be up there for all to read.

Then, I'd say that we need to get over the "McGovern peace-thing" if we want to win any elections.

Now, no more ideas for lurking would-be disruptors! :evilgrin:

they then go to plan B. Plant groups of "centrist Democrats" in progressive blog sites. Then I would try to discredit everything that the left wing has held as dear. For an example, look at what that gang said about Cindy Sheehan.

Then, offer a beaurocratic political family as the salvation to our troubles - after they themselves allowed us to get here.

Imagine the shock those progressives must be undergoing. Leaves many of us almost speechless.

:eyes: