Saudi punishes gang rape victim with 200 lashes

A court in the ultra-conservative kingdom of Saudi Arabia is punishing a female victim of gang rape with 200 lashes and six months in jail, a newspaper reported on Thursday.
The 19-year-old woman -- whose six armed attackers have been sentenced to jail terms -- was initially ordered to undergo 90 lashes for "being in the car of an unrelated male at the time of the rape," the Arab News reported.

But in a new verdict issued after Saudi Arabia's Higher Judicial Council ordered a retrial, the court in the eastern town of Al-Qatif more than doubled the number of lashes to 200.

A court source told the English-language Arab News that the judges had decided to punish the woman further for "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."

Saudi Arabia enforces a strict Islamic doctrine known as Wahhabism and forbids unrelated men and women from associating with each other, bans women from driving and forces them to cover head-to-toe in public.

Last year, the court sentenced six Saudi men to between one and five years in jail for the rape as well as ordering lashes for the victim, a member of the minority Shiite community.

<snip>
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=071115145104.rykb7bub&show_article=1

do it again.

We are idiots and deserve to fail in every endeavor.

Always looking to advance the cause of women.

It's a massively fucked up branch of Islam. And I don't care if that's not PC.

It is EVIL!

PC be damned

Amen, Cali.

Now watch out for the cultural relativists....

They won't condone the violence - in fact I predict they will rant and rave about this situation but when one objects to the cultural traditions that are toxic to women, it's US who are fucked. up. in their opinion.

This kind of shit just makes me crazy.

Admittedly, the US is less fucked up than Saudi Arabia or Wahabbi Islam but it's still plenty fucked up enough to be going on with.

treated under Saudi Law. You want to compare that with how women are treated under U.S. law, be my guest, but it's utterly ludicrous.

It seems like in the minds of many cultural relativists Western imperialism somehow means that now Westerners have no right to complain about barbaric cultural practices. :crazy:

Half joking here--

I don't know if there is a cultural relativist manifesto, but I have not really found a single definition of that. Xtian fundies are very upset about it for their reasons, and yet anthropology depends on a certain amount of that to be internally consistent in its methodology.

Obviously, coming into a culture to study and being disgusted at their food or songs or religion is one thing - beheadings and lashings quite another. While I might be a proponent of CR in the first instance, my respect for human rights trumps that principle on the latter, which I consider a "higher" principle.

Since I would suspect there are different views on degree and implications of the term, it would be pointless to argue.

I do think we agree the point that respecting human rights being a higher principle.
So rather than discussing our relative disgusts, what do you think about this as an admittedly idealistic model:

1. Obviously, we need to get over the dealer/junkie relationship
2. Some standard, perhaps The Universal Declaration of human Rights should be the MINIMUM standard of behavior for any respectable nation, and trump ANY cultural standards (I realize that our country has far to go on this as well)
3. Carrot/stick formulations in trade and other forms of international agreement are put in place to enforce these agreed upon standards.

I will admit again that this is pretty pie in the sky, but pushing toward these goals is perhaps a way of moving in the right direction. I would welcome your thoughts, and hope that none of this nuanced view makes you ill in any way.

Saudi Arabia has quite a high high-end standard of living, supplied by trade with the West. That should be used to place pressure on it to change.

With friends like these....

the map.

That would probably kill all the innocents as well, right?
That is, if I take that to mean what people usually mean by wiping off the map- "glassing the place"- or just a proponent of regime change, which often has concurrent suffering of innocents as well...

Or by "wiped off the map", do you mean just erase SA from the maps themselves, leaving a big hole, or just the words from the map?
Color me confused by this language of map wiping.

How would this map wiping help the cause of justice?

I wish we could take in every single woman in those oppressive countries and leave those assholes to find out how miserable their fucking lives are without their slaves. Personally I would like to see them ALL left on an island surrounded by man eating sharks.

Fucking monsters. They treat women like livestock and value them even less.

about this. Between the cultural relativism on the left and the lust for oil on the right, this country has been woefully silent on this issue.

My answer, arm all the women.

I don't even respond to people who try and compare how women are treated there and how women are treated here. It simply belittles the horrendous situation those women live in every day.

See my post #36 on that very issue. The comparison is insulting. People making that argument should be embarassed.

If defending human rights is "Western cultural imperialism" then I am a proud cultural imperialist.

would love to see occur to our own females.

The only difference is that the attempts to word such bashing towards women come out in different ways, if one believes that the fight to deny a women's right for an abortion is any less horrific considering personal reasons then they are living in a bubble of ignorance.

The fact that that is one of the highest issues for far too many American religious domination's to take into account when visiting the voting booth should be a cause for alarm,not a reason to find comfort.

Oh and lest we forget, the Saudis are our presidents friends and are not allowed to be condemned in any way shape for form in how they run their own country.

Hypocrisy has become nothing more than a word with little meaning and even less power in the scheme of things since its an everyday occurrence in regards to the political leaders and or laws of this country but I will use it anyway.

We have become a nation of "hypocrites" well at least those with the real power cannot deny which not only describes our politicians but our most famous religious leaders as well.

That being sad, the above horror will once again be ignored and not condemned by our media nor our most powerful of politicians.

advocates that a woman should be lashed (probably to death) for being RAPED. It's been mentioned several times in this thread that the Saudis are our allies. And it's to our shame that no politician will speak out about this, but I'm so tired of the comparison of our culture to something like this. Put bluntly, in this kind of case, there is no comparison.

where women have indeed been lashed for similar offenses. Not all those responsible come to face justice simply because the women is either to fearful of speaking out or in a fundie community the outrage is hidden and ignored.

When a politician dares to even take abortion seriously as an issue that needs to be stopped, when he even makes a promise like bush did that he will see abortion become illegal, do you not agree that if such were to occur that more women will die? And will you not agree that they very well know in this day and age the consequences of enacting such a law that would make all abortion regardless of the reason illegal and if the women does not die than she might have been better off if she did because then she faces years of incarceration.

I have heard on the religious network some so called leaders advocating violence towards women and children as being Godly to keep them from sinning.

Try watching some of those channels once in a while, you will be properly horrified in how many of them are attempting to make women nothing more than sub servant once more.

What is a shame is that politicians don't stop such talk but encourage it by openly courting some of these religious leaders as having viable opinions on running this country.

Fear is a powerful weapon for some, sadly they fear the wrong things, but seem to stupid to realize it, too many religious citizens become so fearful of a description of the unknown hell they could one day call home that they ignore such atrocities as needed even if deep down they believe it is wrong. In the religious fundy world, by ignoring another's sin it then becomes your own, its what makes them fanatics and a danger to all human kind.

To deny that some American religious folds are not capable of such only enables them to continue such abuses and be able to hide them better.

Im sorry Cali but I don't agree that there is no comparison.

people breaking the law and brutalizing other people, and the full force of the law imposing "punishment" such as lashing for being raped. I can only shake my head that you can't see that. Naturally there are some in the religious community that advocate all kinds of vile things. I never denied any such thing. Please don't put words in my mouth. As for stances on abortion, that's another thing entirely and not germane to this discussion.

hearing of police brutality resulting in the death of citizens, some really not guilty of much at all with the repeated use of tasers.

What I don't understand is how the death of someone by using such force is ignored and the officers not found guilty of murder? Why, because its legal for them to use such force regardless of the innocence of the person they are tasering.

All they need is a reason.

As for fundies, you said you did not know of any fundie who would condone such behavior towards a woman, I said its not true, I have heard it myself, thats all. I didn't put words in your mouth Cali or in this case misrepresented what you wrote.

Terror towards women in this country comes in all forms, shapes and sizes, we can't ignore that even if for some the issue is not comparable to what occurred to this young woman.

I do agree with you that its more than pathetic that our politicians don't speak out enough against such abuses if it's done by countries we are in cahoots with.

We're not talking about the problem of police brutality. We're talking about how the law treats women in the U.S and how it treats women in Saudi America. There's an enormous cultural gulf. And I don't mind saying in the least that there is no fucking way on earth I'd want to be a woman in that culture.

my opinion but I do agree with you in that I have no desire to be a woman of that culture either, the only difference though in some religious denominations here in the US is that they have just gotten a little better at hiding their disdain of women being allowed a life outside of taking care of the family.

I agree the law is on our side here, not there, but if some fanatics, american ones had their way, the law would be no different than that of Saudi Arabia.

Now you do realize that not all of the Muslim world has the same disdain for women that most do? Their are women fighting for their rights just as American women did and still do in this country. Sadly, and its more than sad, fighting for equality takes time. It shouldn't but it does.

And if you ask me, its women that agree with the male being the decider that hurts other women in their fight and are just as guilty when crimes as in your op occur, we forget that if all women stood together and demanded things like that do not happen it wouldn't, we are a force to be reckoned with when we stand together and the men know it, its why society's such as that still exist, we scare them, always have, the power we have over them and so they do things like that in order to give themselves a sense of power that deep down they know they do not possess.

So when I compare the US to this horror, I do so with knowing that our history has proven that if even if the abortion laws were to be changed and it became illegal our lives will become no less in danger than that young women.

When abortion stops being an issue that even our politicians run with and believe it to be one of the main ones that help win elections to lead this country than I will fear less threatened, until that time, we would be foolish to put our guard down.

that leads you to state "I have heard on the religious network some so called leaders advocating violence towards women and children as being Godly to keep them from sinning. Try watching some of those channels once in a while, you will be properly horrified in how many of them are attempting to make women nothing more than sub servant once more."
If you are referring to Warren Jeffs and his ilk, the wheels of justice are catching up with them. If not I would be very curious who you are talking about.

Doesn't mean they don't advocate it in private. As for the Saudis being our allies, well so was Saddam until he got too big for his britches. Not only will politicians look the other way, but I'll bet Laura will keep silent about this particular case of a woman
being punished for a crime that was committed against her, unlike the women of Afghanistan, but with Laura we all know it's BS.

As for comparisons to our "culture", while it isn't an accepted practice by those of us who do believe in things like equal rights, there are more then enough Americans who would look fondly on the practice of some countries, especially when it comes to women, gays, and others that they hate for the perceived crime of just being different.

and how women are treated under Wahabbism, well, what can I say? I'm sure all sorts of people think things in private, but the point is that something like advocacy for lashing a woman for being raped, is actually so taboo in our culture that no one would dare advocate for it. Reality counts.

not honestly anyway.

Ireland has been our ally for I while last I heard. The last Magdalene Asylum in Ireland closed on September 25, 1996.

I woke up this morning, got dressed and wore what I wanted and left my house without a male relative, travelled to my job that is more than my right to have and if, G-d forbid, get raped on the way home, I can go to the police and charge the motherfucker that hurt me without worrying about the government punishing me by torture for it. I can openly sit on the subway and read the bible, the koran or anything I else I damn well please without getting arrested for it. I can love who I want without having to worry about my family killing me for it and getting away with it.

Comparing the lives of women in Saudi Arabia (and most other middle-eastern countries) with our lives in the US is out and out bullshit. The comparison is insulting to every woman who fought for the right to vote (another thing we get to do here) and fought for the right to marry who we want.

This cultural relativism has got to stop.

What women suffer there is unimaginable to most women here.

I really consider it our responsibility to speak out about this issue as loudly as we can. That this is happening in a country we consider an ally is unconscionable. I've already written my congresswoman (Nita Lowey) and both my senators (Clinton and Schumer) several times about this unholy alliance - usually after yet another honor killing.

How can we go about arming the women in these countries?

Many are to indoctrinated and fearful to fight back. It's like a battered spouse in some ways.

the most dangerous. I think that describes the republican party perfectly. Look who they're going to nominate - a fascist pig who promises them protection.

I really don't know what the answer is for these women - I just know it burns me up that this happens in countries that we support. And when I see progressives turning a blind eye and, even worse, trying to excuse it because some backwater preacher in the US who nobody ever heard of said or did something stupid - it makes me sick.

Our country is far from perfect - I'd still rather live here than in any country that treats women like slaves - not even a contest. What the hell is wrong with some people?!!

The progressives who make me craziest about women's issues are those who argue that the women in these cultures "choose" to live this way, and that it's their culture and we need to "allow" this - celebrate these differences really! :sarcasm:

And that we're bigots if we are appalled at women being indoctrinated and acculturated to accept this. Or that we're the ones who are insensitive to their religion.

I understand that change must come from within and that the women of these countries will have to be the ones who drive the change, BUT that doesn't mean that those of us who can speak out, or help, must remain on the sidelines or remain quiet. Some cultural changes aren't necessarily always bad, and it can definitely be prodded along by outside forces. Situations like the OP can be galvanizing and enlightening.

American women fought for our rights with no outside help and it was a long, hard slog. My grandmother used to tell me how she and all her women friends used to get all dressed up to vote because they felt it was so important and they should be wearing their best.

And I'm in total agreement about the progressives to say the women under Sharia law willingly choose to live the lives of slaves and we have no right to speak against it. They are an embarassment to the left side of the aisle. And those who try to compare our lives with theirs are the most ignorant of what women in Saudi Arabia, etc go through each and every day. It's pathetic to make the comparison.

I do think that in the age of satellite TV and the internet, it's important for those women to know that they have our support and that we are outraged on their behalf. Hopefully that small knowledge will give them some courage to fight. This government could certainly promise amnesty. I certainly wish we could do more.

need to join their battle from the outside. Theocracies (friend or foe) need to know that they are being put on notice and our own Government needs to know that we will not tolerate "friendships" with countries that treat women like slaves.We make up 50% of the world,we have a voice.

I'm sick of this bullshit.

While Islamic culture is one of the most sexist.

whenever one of these stories comes up, there are always people ready to try and compare this country to some religious shit hole like Saudi Arabia. When it comes to treatment of women THERE IS NO COMPARISON.

out of fear, a fear born of abuse, you can say the law protects them, in the law books it does, but I think there are alto of women ten feet under who would disagree with you that the law saved them from a male dominant society.

Look at the way people are attacking Hillary and in what manner? If that is not perhaps a disdain of women in general I don't know what is, they are not even attempting to hide it and they are getting away with it, even a free society where women seem to rule..

Though I am not sure I trust her at this point I hope she wins, if you ask me its pretty telling that the highest office in this land has only been held by a white male.

And I have seen discussions on the news, is America ready for a woman president, is America ready for a black president. Are you kidding me? Why would such a question even feel the need to be asked in a country that pretends we are so above the likes of countries where women remain second class citizens.

that compares to government enforced slavery.

abused women - their spirit being broken down by pain and fear. My point is that here it is not government sponsored or even culturally accepted. Abusers are not rewarded by the courts and the woman will not be punished by the law by coming forward. The woman who this thread is in honor of got twice the punishment she was originally given just for speaking out - that would never happen here.

Hillary is not my first choice but I'm very ready for a white male not to be President. And you're right, the fact we're even asking if we're ready for that is ridiculous. If we're not, we're behind countries like Britain, Israel and even Pakistan. You'd think we'd be ashamed of that.

That the question "is America ready for a woman president?" is discussed at all in the U.S. as opposed to its non-existent corollary in Saudi Arabia speaks volumes of the dramatic degree of difference between the two cultures.

That we can openly discuss this, without fear of violent reprisal from the U.S. government and with full knowledge that the rule of law is defending us rather than opposing us, is a most telling illustration that the two cultures on a social level at least, are almost the antithesis of the other.

:argh:

The leadership of America should have stepped in on this case. The should still step in on this case. I suggest President Bush cut American funding to Saudi Arabia. He should have also offered to give the woman asylum here in America. I think all Democratic candidates should be asked if they will push Saudi Arabia to stop doing things like this and if they would try to offer some type of asylum for females in similar positions.

Afghanistan her cause celebe (sp?), why haven't I heard her say anything about this or any of the other horror stories we hear about women in that part of the world?

It's not going to come from the republicans, they couldn't care less. It's going to have to come from our side of the aisle. And the first thing that needs to go is the cultural relativism bullshit that is so common. Once people admit that for the lives of women, the west is head and shoulders above the middle east, we can go from there.

sick sick sick

n/t

What kind of BS is that? :mad:

And that movie "portrayed" the "positive" image of Saudis.

After reading this article I was deceived.

I hate Hollywood these days.

The country club set really SHOULD be confronted with these outrages... They are so happy to rant on and on about how our enemies want to "cut off our heads"...

to use this against Islam. But on this issue, I'm sorry to say, I agree with them. If they wanted to use the argument that we are invading to save the women from this kind of treatment, I would have no problem with it. The reality is, they couldn't care less about the lives of the women in those countries - it would be lip service at best.

:cry:

I am suprised that Fox, or another American network, has not offered the whipping of this woman on pay per view

Saudi Arabia? Not so much publicity in the U.S. Wonder why..../sarcasm

Why did we destroy Iraq while we suck up to this evil empire in Saudi Arabia? Let's ask everyone we know.

get mainstream attention, even from progressive media.They are beaten and subjugated without mercy and the world looks the other way.

that's some fucked up bullshit right there .

Throckmorton was summoned to the inquisition around 1550. He was tortured, did not confess, and went to trial where the jury found him innocent. Throckmorton fled and the jury was soon arrested and tortured in the tower of London.

You see, the inquisitor decided that an innocent plea was evidence of Throckmortons satanic skills.

Throckmorton was again arrested by the inquisitor in his new parrish, and this time he was found guilty.

Throckmorton was hanged, beheaded, drawn, quartered, and set afire.

So much for the innocent in the eyes of the Christians.

Of Christianity nearly 500 years ago. We're talking about the present. In any case, there was no Iquisition in England. The Inquisiton was a Roman Catholic affair, and in 1550, England was a Protestant nation, having broken with Rome under Henry VIII. I dimly recall something about a Throckmorton plot to overthrow Elizabeth. Perhaps that's who you're referring to. In that case, he himself would almost certainly have been a Catholic. This isn't just historical nitpicking: Facts are important in recounting a historical event.

was the traditional sentence for treason against the crown.

..sheer and utter madness...