You know re-listening to Randi's show on the Pod and she finally gets it... the democracts are

complicit

No, this is not a bash the party thread as some of our DLC folks like to think, but a reality check

They have given the WH a pass on wire tapping.. and now they have given the WH a pass on torture.

They refuse to impeach.

They refuse to do what they need to do, what we the people demand.

They cannot or do not want to rock the boat.

The fact is that whether they can't becuase they believe that they will get the WH and no use in rocking the boat... or they truly believe we need to do this does not give them a pass. Legally, they are now complicit.

It does not matter how many times you tell me that they are not the same... bullshit... in any criminal conspiracy co-conspirators are guilty... just as the ones who come up with the plan.

Yes, it is that simple.

Oh and there is one more thing... we did not elect leaders, but representatives... and we need to start talking seriously on how to reform the system and destroy the duoplogy. We have had a political failure of incredible proportions and right now... the Dems are morally just as bankrupt as the White House.

Yes, there are individual exceptions, but the party... is morally bankrupt.

is unacceptable

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eu-FtNOhqWQ

Just batting the ball away, wasn't he.

Support those who aren't.

Remember, Perfection is the enemy of the Good.

and we need a shock to the system... the political system. That is in order for the Duopoly to realize... damn we messed up, didn't we?

throw all support ONLY to Anti-corruption, open government Democrats.

It's turning into the Fascist GOPS and Dems against the Open Government Democrats.

The sooner we call them on it the sooner we can turn around and have an honest and open government accountable to the people.

if it is somebody like mine that failed her tests regaring this... she ain't gonna get my vote, no way no how

She may be mostly good... but that is the first step

The second is demanding reforms and the opening of the political system

Understand... the Democrats have four to six factions that in other countries would be distinct parties... and the RNC has about three

The reason why they are part of a two party system is the way the system was designed by the founding fathers, and that needs to be opened up.

They are still operating under the delusion that some
of the Dems work for THEM and not their corporate masters.
The only way to get the country back from the corporatists
is for EVERYONE to understand WHO they are in BOTH parties.

I aint holding my breath for that to happen...

BHN

because I DO believe that not all dems are "complicit" or spineless, or work for a corporate master. I know damn well that Senator Leahy doesn't. For fuck's sake, if he's working for corporate masters, how come after 33 years in the Senate, he's not a wealthy man? His campaigns take little corporate money, and he's rated 96th in terms of personal wealth. So explain to me how he does the bidding of corporations. Oh, btw, do you know why Cheney told him to go fuck himself: Hint: Because Leahy was going after Halliburton.

Do you always take everything so personally?
BHN

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you have the nerve to blather on about ritual shaming? That demonstrates an amazing lack of insight considering your zeal to attack and sneer at those who disagree with you both here and at another site. I certainly won't report the thread as a personal attack, but you're calling me a troll? Yeah, I will.

the only Dem in the debates that actually speaks the truth--KUCINICH!

that means I don't care if a candidate is viable... they get my vote.

I like sleeping at night

and if the ones who aren't complicit want to show their leadership, they can join in putting the pressure on their fellow Dems in DC.

and those who are not, UNDERSTAND the constitution, but the leadership... I doubt they've ever read it.

Their oath is not to the party but to the Constititon.

to not be held to our laws unless they are coerced or corrupt or, indeed, complicit?

legally they are now complicit. They are giving them a pass and "legal cover."

and damn it, the best observation on this.

They do not get the Constitution. Madamne Speaker your oath is not to the Party, but to the Constitution

have she ever read the document she took an oath to? The way they act, I doubt it

Give me a break! When is the last time you heard of ANY politician saying they didn't have the power to do something because it's not in the constitution?

We long ago gave up any pretense to believing in a limited government with specifically delineated powers.

It's now: If we want to do it, we'll do it.

and the only reason they are getting away with it, is because we are allowing it.

Isn't it Article VI of the Constitution that defines the supreme law they should uphold?

Did ya catch the GD thread "Soiled" today?

Well, like Randi also said today, what wins out is persistance. We have to keep making them hear us.

Yousay: "Oh and there is one more thing... we did not elect leaders, but representatives... and we need to start talking seriously on how to reform the system and destroy the duoplogy. We have had a political failure of incredible proportions and right now... the Dems are morally just as bankrupt as the White House."

I love your words. But them that owns the media and them that counts the vote, makes it hard.

I mean, look at how well DK is doing here at Du yet he rarely is mentioned on TV.

Those are the exact words I said to my congressman at a meeting when he was complaining about how we just don't understand how difficult it is to write a bill that will pass because "my colleagues" are hard to convince of ANYTHING and it's very difficult to get them to agree. I had been sitting there for far too long listening to him give non-answers and I'd had enough. I had to say, "Well, then you need to go back to Washington and remind your colleagues exactly what their job is! We elect you to be our representatives, which means FIND OUT WHAT WE WANT YOU TO DO AND VOTE ACCORDINGLY. Too many of you get to DC and forget that you are REPRESENTING us and think that you are our LEADERS. You're NOT!"

I will remember the look on his face at that moment for the rest of my life.

Moaning and goaning about the "Inside the Beltway " mentality.

I shocked my own self saying it out loud, but his excuses just made me mad and I could not keep quiet any longer. That was my first meeting with one of my reps and I've had lots of them since. Sometimes it still amazes me that here I am telling senators and a congressman what I expect them to do. I am respectful, pretty much, anyway, and them what I honestly think and give them lots of printed stuff to read later. I just met with one of my senators' state advisor this morning and called the other one's DC office. (still tryin' to find out about that CIA list thing and still getting nowhere, of course.) I think they're used to (and probably sick of) me by now.

Exactly everything you would want in a representative.

She voted against the IWR and was almost tarred and feathered for it. (Not by her constituents, but by the RW.)

She comes back during Thanksgiving and Christmas recess and holds 20 minute meetings with anyone smart enought to call her office and request a meeting.

Early on (Dec '04) she knew the election was stolen.

It's been a big adjustment having a new congress critter who only toes the DLC line.

I'll try and use your tactics to bring m e up to speed.

:applause:

while these people, Schoo and DiFi in particular, were making these laws in the first place. now, it seems they aren't interested in rolling back the "emergency rules." they got vested in the homeland security/war economy and they are either covering up their own crimes or patronizing interest groups.

I have spent an aweful lot of energy trying to excuse the apathy, the failure to act against what is obviously either illegal or barbarically immoral behavior by the executive.

I just can not spend that kind of energy, anymore.

The representatives ARE a reflection of this nation's people. They may not be a reflection of you or me but, overall, they reflect the nature of the American people.

that said... unlike Germany there is an undercurrent that is actually finghting this

Don't get me wrong, there was one in Germany, but I hope the one here is stronger

Randi was talking about this today ---

You run this war now with huge bills mounting --- bankrupting our treasury

we'll be pre-Nazi Germany with Bread costing $50 a loaf today and $100 tomorrow ---

Then --- no jobs --- most of our workers will be willing to do anything.


Will Canada or France save us?

We have to save ourselves --- !!!!

Pretty soon it will be time to roll over and support the almost certain Democratic nominee, Hillary Clinton.

Disregard the fact that she's PART OF THE PROBLEM.

What are you going to do, allow an even worse repub into office?

So talk all you want, but when the time comes next November, be a good little German and support the future Queen.

call it history... Dean was also certain before the first vote was cast in the usual suspects

Unfortunately, I'm still completely certain, that she's going to get the nomination.

The only example people seem to give continuously is Dean this, and Dean that.

HILLARY CLINTON IN '08 IS NOT HOWARD DEAN IN '04. The Democratic Leadership WANT her. They Did Not want Dean.

When I see Obama or Edwards getting delegates, then I'll be a little hopeful. I just don't see it mattering, as I still believe that She has been PROMISED the nomination.

Call me a conspiracy nut, or whatever, but I stand by my belief. Even after it happens, I'm sure there will be more excuses and explanations, but I think it's pre-ordained.

so I am almost certain that history will repeat itself.

And history does not favor early leaders.. no matter which one of the two parties you are talking about

.

The party's not morally bankrupt.

It almost seems odd to even have to say that.

I see some of your points, yet smashing the party instead of adding your voice to change the party, or choosing another party, seems an exercise in futility. We need passionate voices, like yours, and voters, voters, voters.

Just my two cents.

like in any other fashist shift

And it is well past the time to negotiate

While they play the poosy foot games of compromise, the administration is playing a very differnt game

And yes, when the history of this period is written... none of our so called leaders, will have an easy time and they will be morally complicit

You may not like it, but that's the case.

And given historical patterns, it is well past time trying to change a party and it is well past time to take to the streets and push back

As to voting... you know what? Your vote and mine will not be counted, but... go vote anyway... make the work ot steal it ok

:eyes:

:bounce:

Who benefitted from keeping Kerry/Edwards out of the WH? Republicans, War Profiteers, Corporations & THE DLC!

It's been evident to me since the 90s.

My support goes to those who've earned it.

except maybe Dennis Kucinich - he's my only ray of potential hope. The system is completely broken, so he can't do anything - but I don't believe he's complicit.

:kick:

Haven't we all been saying that Congress was elected to REPRESENT THE PEOPLE and are NOT DOING SO for longer than that?

Yet there are still people here on DU who don't get those basic facts.

There are people here on DU who want to elect Hillary or Obama who are just more of the same! :puke:


I don't remember what I was listening to or where I heard this online, but I recently heard Washington DC described by an insider as "The Wild West".

And we all know what that was like. :grr: