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What Does It Matter if the Surge is Working?

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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:24 PM
Original message
What Does It Matter if the Surge is Working?
No longer do the Democratic presidential candidates have to explain their plans for Iraq or justify whether their stances on Iraq are well-founded. The debate last night was moved to whether or not the surge is working, a frivolous discussion which is meaningless for our men and women in harm’s way right now. What does it matter if the surge is working? Are we really going to stand for such ineptitude on display as Democratic candidates stand up on stage and try to calm our fears about the violence in Iraq by telling us that “the surge is working”? Are we really at a point where we have to justify the Democratic-controlled Congress’s lack of action on this Iraq war since the midterm election in 2006?

Like some kind of Wall Street broker, John Roberts framed the question in regards to National Guard units having to be sent back to Iraq on their third tour of duty by saying, “But it's also true that U.S. troop deaths have been declining steadily since the spring. And in fact, in the month of October, they were at their lowest level in nearly two years. At the same time, there has been a marked decline in the number of deaths of Iraqi people.” It was the kind of analysis of Iraq that I would have expected from Roger Ailes’ failed FOX News Business channel.

Given the time, however, the candidates were not going to dismiss the question as ridiculous and quite Republican and so, they responded. Some responded quite well to the question of “Is the surge working?” Others did quite awful, and when you look at previous answers in previous debates, you can see a pattern.


http://www.opednews.com/articles/opedne_kevin_go_071116_what_does_it_matter_.htm">Continued on OpEdNews
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:26 PM
Response to Original message
1. Ethnic Cleansing is working because the surge failed to stop it - now there are fewer to kill
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Warren Stupidity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:40 PM
Response to Original message
2. The surge is not a surge and it is not working.
"the surge" was a madison avenue advertising campaign used to sell a permanent troop increase to continue our garrisoned occupation of Iraq. "Success" seems to mean that we have negotiated a mutual understanding with the sunni militias in al anbar, and with the shia militias in basra, and flooded baghdad with troops. I wouldn't count on the current standoff continuing for much longer.
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TwilightGardener Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:43 PM
Response to Original message
3. If the occupation was wrong when the body count was higher, it doesn't suddenly
become right when the body count goes down--we had no right to invade, and we have no right to occupy. We are wasting our money and our military on policing and nationbuilding, which everyone agreed was not a good idea circa 2000.
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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. So tell your guy Barack
To Bring Our Troops Home before he "takes office?" It's possible. And he has the power to lead it. And if he supported impeachment and worked to get our troops home in the next 4 to 5 months (which is possible), he would win in a landslide.

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TahitiNut Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:45 PM
Response to Original message
4. “Peace is not an absence of war, ..."
Peace is not an absence of war, it is a virtue, a state of mind, a disposition for benevolence, confidence, justice.” Baruch Spinoza (1632 - 1677)

It is totally and irrevocably meaningless to claim that an increase in armed force is, in any way, shape, or form, "working" toward an objective or goal that sane people would deem desirable. If we were in some fashion to flood Iraq with military force - let's say in the millions - and, by intimidation and fear, supressed not only overt acts of violence but acts of resistence to that military force, would that be any indication whatsoever of virtue? of a disposition for benevolence? of confidence? of justice??

Only the most unredeemably pschopathic would say "yes."

It's merely putting a lid on a pressure cooker and claiming some deluded, transient "improvement" in the interim until either (1) the lid is eased off and the bottled up steam fills the air, (2) the lid fractures and a gawdawful mess explodes and covers the walls, or (3) the fires are quenched and entropy is given its due.


I've lost patience with these corrupt sophistries - where the claimants merely barter and bargain for more time to create an ever-increasing ultimate caatastrophe!

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Ravy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:46 PM
Response to Original message
5. For something to work, it has to achieve the desired result.
We wouldn't say a heart transplant, no matter how skillfully it was performed, worked if the patient died, or didn't need a transplant in the first place.

The plan was to cut the violence *so* the Iraqi government could come to a compromise. It did not happen, ergo, it did not work.
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ChazII Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
7. Good analogy. n/t
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patrioticintellect Donating Member (490 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 10:52 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. Best reply so far
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yourout Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Nov-16-07 11:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. My gut tells me something big is in the works for Iraq.
I think there may be a reason things seem quiet. They may be changing there tactics to be more spectacular and less often in hopes of generating more press.
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