Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Supreme Court to take up DC gun case, 2nd Amendment

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:01 PM
Original message
Supreme Court to take up DC gun case, 2nd Amendment
:scared:

http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/11/20/475202.aspx

Supreme Court takes up DC gun case
Posted: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 1:49 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Pete Williams
The US Supreme Court has agreed to hear the Washington, DC gun case. The justices will review a federal appeals court ruling that found DC's ban on handguns to be unconstitutional.

The court makes it clear today that it intends to address what the 2nd Amendment really means -- surprisingly, the court has never said before what the right to bear arms actually means. Here's the way it frames the question: "Whether {DC's gun laws} violate the Second Amendment rights of individuals who are not affiliated with any state-regulated militia, but who wish to keep handguns and other firearms for private use in their homes?"
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wonder what kind of warped decision they will give us?
:scared:

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:06 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. ME, too, considering the court composition. nt
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. My personal idea of an ideal decision in this case:
The Second Amendment does indeed protect the right of individuals to keep and bear arms, but the government can create restrictions provided they pass the Strict Scrutiny test.

In other words, any restriction on weapons must fulfill these requirements.


First, it must be justified by a compelling governmental interest. While the Courts have never brightly defined how to determine if an interest is compelling, the concept generally refers to something necessary or crucial, as opposed to something merely preferred. Examples include national security, preserving the lives of multiple individuals, and not violating explicit constitutional protections.

Second, the law or policy must be narrowly tailored to achieve that goal or interest. If the government action encompasses too much (over-inclusive) or fails to address essential aspects of the compelling interest (under-inclusive), then the rule is not considered narrowly tailored.

Finally, the law or policy must be the least restrictive means for achieving that interest. More accurately, there cannot be a less restrictive way to effectively achieve the compelling government interest, but the test will not fail just because there is another method that is equally the least restrictive. Some legal scholars consider this 'least restrictive means' requirement part of being narrowly tailored, though the Court generally evaluates it as a separate prong.


That would be my ideal ruling on this case, which would imply that a blanket ban on handguns is unconstitutional, but less restrictive means to deal with safety and crime issues might be acceptable.

But yeah, that would assume we had a government and a SCOTUS capable of this line of thought, and not hamstrung by corruption and bad ideology.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AngryAmish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. We can't have this around here
A thoughtful, informed analysis?!? WTF?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
WGS Donating Member (116 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:18 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Next time they
will be deciding which part of the 1st amendment needs to be adjusted....whoops! too late..
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
northernsoul Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:23 PM
Response to Reply #3
6. That would make too much sense
Since it's been a while since I've had to actually do anything involving con-law, do you know if there is any case law extending strict scrutiny to non-equal protection cases? I feel dumb for needing to ask.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
whoneedstickets Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:26 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. You're right on. This is the Proper ruling...
Edited on Tue Nov-20-07 02:46 PM by whoneedstickets
..but it would be seen by the gun nuts as a huge defeat since it would open the door to a fire-arms registration program to track all weapons for security and law-enforcement purposes and it would be impossible to argue that simple registration was over-burdensome.

edit your --> you're
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
backscatter712 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:36 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. That's my take - licensing or registration could be done in a way to pass Strict Scrutiny.
Edited on Tue Nov-20-07 02:38 PM by backscatter712
Here's the catch.

1. Must be free-as-in-beer. In other words, you shouldn't have to pay money to assert a constitutional right - otherwise the scheme will be shut down in the same way that poll taxes were shut down.

2. Must be shall-issue. Just like the laws on concealed-carry licenses in many states. Those laws say "The licensing authority shall issue a license provided the licensee has fulfilled the requirements." as opposed to "may issue" laws which mean the sheriff can deny licenses for any reason including no reason. Put the shall-issue language in the law, requiring the authority to issue a license to anyone who fulfills the licensing requirements, and you're well on your way to a constitutionally sound firearms licensing system.

3. Must be relatively easy. It's not outrageous to suggest that people who want firearms take a single two-hour class on basic marksmanship, gun safety (Cooper's four rules) and legal issues around firearms. But it must be easy enough that any Joe Citizen with a clean record could come in and complete the class as long as he isn't a total idiot. I know, my interpretation is a bit fuzzy. Still, if you do what the Jim Crow crowd did with "literacy tests" and made them so difficult nobody could pass them, then it's unconstitutional. Handling weapons safely and legally isn't particularly difficult.

I don't think Strict Scrutiny is a bad way to rule on this - it ensures that the Second Amendment has strong protection, but within sanity - it doesn't protect the right to keep and bear nuclear weapons, and it nicely dovetails into the case law around other constitutional rights.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. You've got some very good ideas there
I think a lot of us could definitely benefit from a basic marksmanship/safety class. I know I sometimes feel silly for asking for help on basic gun issues like loading, cleaning, and the rest, but the view should be towards promoting competence and responsibility with firearms. Those are times when I should simply swallow my pride and tell the gun-shop proprietor, "Can you help me out with something?"

One good example is with pistols like Glocks where the entire receiver slides back and forth as opposed to more traditional pistols like many Colt and S&W models. I do not own a Glock, but I wanted to familiarize myself with that design, so I asked the local shop owner what I needed to know. He told me about the slide, showed me how to obtain a proper two-handed grip on the pistol so that my hand doesn't get skinned alive, and let me practice a quick stance to see what sort of position would work best with me.

Now I can't go so far as to say that one should have a permit in order to merely own a firearm. But if we are the "well-regulated Militia" spoken of in the Second Amendment, we had better act like one. And that means thinking beyond our own selves and considering overall effectiveness and safety as a whole.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
madinmaryland Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #3
8. Your last sentence sums up my thoughts about this also.
:sigh:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Nov-20-07 02:35 PM
Response to Original message
9. Let the games begin!
This may be the most influential Second Amendment ruling since US v. Miller way back when.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 06th 2024, 02:08 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC