6,000 complaints from soldiers who claim to have been persecuted by Christian evangelicals;

http://www.motherjones.com/news/update/2007/11/anti-crusader-mikey-weinstein.html

The Anti-Crusader


Weinstein is the middle rung in three generations of soldiers. A former Air Force JAG and White House attorney for Ronald Reagan, he has adopted a shock-and-awe approach to battling efforts by the military to impress Christianity upon American soldiers. "We have the Christian Taliban and the Christian Al Qaeda inside our military," says Weinstein, the founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, "and they really have WMD, unlike Saddam."

An amateur pugilist with shoulders like a butcher block and a head like a cannonball, he several times challenged evangelical minister Ted Haggard to a boxing match. (Haggard declined.) His adversaries call him, to his great delight, "The Field General of the Godless Armies of Satan," though his friends prefer nicknames like "Ticktock" and "Motor Mouth." During one of his trademark rapid-fire, profanity-laced diatribes, he proclaimed," Our job here is to kick ass, take names, and leave sucking chest wounds on the people who are trying to engage the machinery of the state to push their biblical worldview." To allies who suggest that perhaps Weinstein should appoint someone more diplomatic to lead the foundation, he offers, "First they will have to prove to me that what we are engaged in is a polite exchange of views" with right-wing Christians," instead of a bloody battle that only ends with the last person standing."

Weinstein is certain that fundamentalists will stop at nothing to transform the United States military into an army of God. He notes that Officers Christian Fellowship, with chapters in every major U.S. military installation in the world, envisions—and here he quotes its mission statement—a "spiritually transformed military, with ambassadors for Christ in uniform, empowered by the Holy Spirit." The group has helped boost fundamentalist Christianity among the armed forces from a negligible presence 20 years ago to a faith currently held by 30 percent of U.S. soldiers, according to Weinstein. He adds that many of those soldiers—hardcore end-timers and Dominionists—desperately want America to invade Iran, thereby triggering the biblical prophecy of the Rapture.

This summer he uncovered plans by the Pentagon to ship "freedom packages" to soldiers in Iraq that were to contain Bibles, proselytizing material in English and Arabic, and Left Behind: Eternal Forces, a video game inspired by post-Rapture novels in which "soldiers for Christ" hunt enemies who look suspiciously like U.N. peacekeepers. Partly due to Weinstein's efforts, the packages were never sent. "It's not just the Holocaust or the inquisition or the pogroms or the nine—count 'em: nine—crusades," Weinstein cautions. "It's everything that's happened since then. Whenever a virulent form of any faith has engaged the machinery of the state, in the words of the U.S. Supreme Court, we have ended up with tidal waves of blood."

And so Weinstein is laying sand bags. He has fielded more than 6,000 complaints from soldiers who claim to have been persecuted by Christian evangelicals; 95 percent of the complaints come from mainstream Christians. Tipsters helped him catch uniformed military officers publicly endorsing an evangelical group and ferret out an anti-Semitic Bible study guide on an army base website. In September, he shunted many of the complaints into a massive lawsuit against the Department of Defense. His lead plaintiff, U.S. Army Specialist Jeremy Hall, alleges that a major at Iraq's Speicher base threatened to block his reenlistment in the Army in retaliation for organizing a meeting of atheists.

It runs for over an hour. Here's Part 1 on YouTube (of several parts.)
http://youtube.com/watch?v=8vYXbXzzmVo

(EOO, I'm replying to your post so it can be at the top of the thread. Weinstein kicks ass!)

--IMM

these fascists millennarians mascerading as Christians. They give us a bad name.

do`t sound like a good christian name to me!

when bush mentioned a "crusade" that`s when the Islamic world knew what bush and his "Army of God" were going to do.

when he was at the Air Force Academy. A generation later, it was even worse for his son. That's why he started on this campaign.

Thanks Mr. Weinstein. It will take a strong principled person to fight something like this, but it is essential.

He is not one to be fucked with.

on our behalf!

k&r
sw

Evidently we're not the only ones who get pissed of by hypocritical proselytizers.

If other Christians are noticing it and getting angry, imagine how bad it really must be. *shudder* Ugh. It's got to be really bad.

Their god gets angry with them if they don't hassle people 24/7.

"Hardcore end-timers and Dominionists." They are literally trying to take over the country.

He's hard-core (he took his daughter to one of those promise ring ceremonies, even). He even offends my mom, who's evangelical. If they're dealing with guys like him daily, it's a wonder they don't lose their tempers or start hurting people.

Democracy Now: American Fascists Pt. 1

Democracy Now: American Fascists Pt. 2

Chris Hedges's new book examines how Christian dominionists are seeking absolute power and a Christian state. According to Hedges, the movement bears a strong resemblance to the young fascist movements in Italy and Germany in the 1920s and '30s. Hedges is the former New York Times Middle East bureau chief and author of "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning."





http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=genera_tim_rile_070906_nuclear_insanity_ord.htm



http://ianmasters.org/ian_masters_021807_80.mp3 (direct link to mp3)

http://www.ianmasters.org/archives.html (site link - scroll down to Feb. 18)

Chris Hedges on the religious right in the United States. Mr. Hedges is a Pulitzer Prize-winning veteran war correspondent, who now writes about religion and politics. He is a graduate of Harvard Divinity School and is the author of the just published "American Fascists: the Christian Right and the War on America." In this book, Hedges, who grew up in rural parishes in upstate New York where his father was a Presbyterian pastor, attacks the Christian fundamentalist movement from the point of view of a believer, as someone steeped in the Bible and Christian tradition. He points to the hundreds of members of Congress with high approval ratings from the three most influential Christian Right advocacy groups as one of many signs that the movement is burrowing deep inside the American government, in order to subvert it. The movement's call to dismantle the wall between church and state and the intolerance it preaches against all who do not conform to its warped vision of a Christian America are pumped into tens of millions of American homes through Christian television and radio stations, as well as reinforced through the curriculum in Christian schools. He shows that the movement's yearning for apocalyptic violence and its assault on dispassionate, intellectual inquiry are laying the foundation for an unrecognizable fundmentalist America. His thesis: we face an imminent threat. Chris Hedges earlier books are highly acclaimed. He is the author of War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning, What Every Person Should Know about War and another religiously themed book, Losing Moses on the Freeway.. He has worked for various publications including the Christian Science Monitor and the Dallas Morning News. He was part of the New York Times team that shared the 2001 Pulitzer Prize for global terrorism coverage. Hedges has written extensively about his experiences on the front lines of war. He has reported about his experiences in Sarajevo, El Salvador, Guatemala, Nicaragua, Colombia, the Middle East and other places around the world. He is lecturer in the Council of the Humanities and Ferris Professor of Journalism at Princeton University. He received the 2002 Amnesty International Global Award for Human Rights Journalism. (In a 2003 Commencement address at Rockford College in Rockford, Ill., Hedges raised the intense ire of audience members when he spoke out against the war in Iraq. Many regard Hedges as a "philosopher of the experience of war." According to Hedges, the experience of being in a war zone, where there is very little distinction between life and death, fills a person with a sense of "meaning" and brings him to a "high" that cannot be experienced so strongly any other way, producing a kind of addiction.)



http://ningens-blog.blogspot.com/2007/01/why-chris...

It's long and rambling, but it links to some stuff about Christianist fascism in the Air Force and also links to articles by Antipas Ministries, which is an interesting evangelical website that heavily criticizes right wing evangelicals for basically dealing with the devil.



http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

Michael L. Weinstein, founder of the Military Religious Freedom Foundation, wrote "With God on Our Side: One Man's War Against an Evangelical Coup in America's Military."

click on Public Forum and you'll see this blog post from May:

Saturday, May 26, 2007
FOR MEMORIAL DAY WEEKEND
FROM MICK FARREN BLOG POSTING

I’ve been aware of various news reports concerning Fundamentalist Christians making increasing efforts to turn the US Military into a “Christian” fighting force, but other things, some epic, some trivia, have been absorbing my attention, but when activists and Air Force veterans like Michael Weinstein make statements like the one below I kinda think it’s time to take notice. I mean, I don’t feel exactly comfortable with the idea that megaton loaded nuclear bombers are flying around with crews who believe the Book of Revelation is going become reality anytime.

“The Christian Taliban is running the Department of Defense, It inundates everything. Can you imagine a contingent of religious zealots, with their contempt for secular values (and such manifestations of secular order as the U.S. Constitution) — and with their zest for holy war — in control of the most potent fighting force and weaponry in human history? Is this possible? Well, said Weinstein, consider the 523rd Fighter Squadron, based at Cannon Air Force Base, N.M., which calls itself The Crusaders, and whose emblem consists of a sword, four crosses and a medieval knight’s helmet. They fly F-16s with payloads consisting of “a wide variety of conventional, precision guided and nuclear weapons.” And listen once again to Commander-in-Chief Bush, speaking in 2003 to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: “God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If this is a religious war — a “clash of civilizations,” waged by competing agents of God’s will — victory may be indistinguishable from Armageddon. God help the human race.”


Here's another blog post that talks about the AF:



Tuesday, April 24, 2007
Because I love America: Reagan's Assistant General Counsel, Mikey Weinstein Speaks Out. with God on our side
By Mikey Weinstein

When I began asking questions about what I saw going on at Colorado Springs in 2004 I never expected that the inquiry would lead me to the horrifying conclusion that our country had been taken over by people who have used our own freedoms to enslave us. But that is what happened. When I began I, like most people, was focused on the personal. I believed that what was happening at the United States Air Force Academy, the harassment of cadets and staff with unwanted evangelism, was limited in scope. As the months passed, however, I found myself forced to constantly reassess my basic assumptions. The logic of events was stark and undeniable. Promises of an open inquiry were ignored; decent and courageous people like former Air Force Chaplin MeLinda Morton were intentionally muzzled to ensure the truth would not be heard and the wrongs righted.

As a Republican and an Academy graduate I find myself in head on conflict with my own oath to protect the Constitution. As a Jew I confronted a situation through ears that still hear the cries of my people walking silently into the brick buildings that would reduce them to ash. I cannot stand still and let that happen to my country.

You know about the law suit we filed; that suit took on the issue directly, based on the1st Amendment Right of members of the military to choose their own spiritual paths, unhampered by those placed in positions of authority and on the basis of the Establishment Clause and Clause Three of Article Six, which prohibit the existence of a national religion. That is what has happened. America now has a national religion whose tenets extend to a foreign policy that sees war in the Middle East as the fulfillment of its core mission . The power block responsible for the take over are now, effectively, in charge of the mightiest weapon the world has ever known, the United States Military.

My law suit was one element in the larger battle to take back America. That might seem excessive or alarmist; I only wish that was the case.

more...

http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/events.html#4



The Cannons of Christianity
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4102638726170063607&q=The+Cannons+of+Christianity&total=29&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

Christian cannons have fired at my days
With the warning beneath the holy blaze
And bow to our authority
Say the cannons of Christianity

Oh the children will be sent to schools
Minds of clay are molded to their rules
Learn to fear all of eternity
Warn the cannons of Christianity

Holy hands will count the money raised
Like a king the Lord is richly praised
On a cross of diamond majesty
Say the cannons of Christianity

Missionaries will travel on crusades
The word is given, the heathen souls are saved
Conversions to our morality
Sigh the cannons of Christianity

Come the wars and turn the rules around
To bend your soul on the battle ground
And the Lord will march beside me
Drone the cannons of Christianity

Cathedral walls will glitter with their gold
And the sermons speak through silver robes
Building castles amidst the poverty
Say the cannons of Christianity

Worship now and wash your sins away
Drop the coins, fall to your knees and pray
Cleanse the world of all hypocrisy
Smile the cannons of Christianity

Christian cannons have fired at my days
With the warning beneath the holy blaze
And bow to our authority
Say the cannons of Christianity
By Phil Ochs


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/opinion/2004012110_floyd14.html


Blackwater: bulging biceps fueled by ideological purity
BLACKWATER, the secretive private army now emerging into public view, is a perfect hinge linking two key elements of the Republican political base: America's war machine and a muscular form of fundamentalist Christianity.

Military contractors such as Halliburton and Blackwater are the brainchild of Vice President Dick Cheney and former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld. A major goal of Cheney when he was secretary of defense in the first Bush administration was to privatize as much military work as possible, ostensibly to make it more efficient. He commissioned a study by Halliburton, which predictably liked the idea and wound up as America's largest military contractor. Cheney was hired as Halliburton's chief officer, awaiting the return of a Republican administration.

When that occurred, Cheney and Rumsfeld enthusiastically promoted privatization, and went so far as to include private contractors in the "Total Force" of the American military, standing never before given to contractors. When Rumsfeld left the Pentagon in 2006, there were nearly as many private contractors in Iraq (100,000) as American troops (130,000). Contractors provided food, fuel, housing and, in the case of Blackwater, heavily armed soldiers with a license to kill and an aggressive attitude.

Blackwater operated basically without oversight since proconsul Paul Bremer gave it a no-bid $27.7 million security contract in 2003, with immunity from Iraqi law. In 2004, four of its soldiers were ambushed in Fallujah and their bodies desecrated, bringing retaliation that killed hundreds of Iraqis, leveled the city and fueled the insurgency. A month ago, Blackwater guards killed 17 Iraqi civilians, in an incident that has drawn the attention of Congress and the FBI.

Blackwater soldiers, often with Navy SEAL or Army Special Operations backgrounds, are paid from $500 to $1,500 a day, far more than regular-duty troops. Their image is straight from central casting: young men, tanned biceps bulging from black T-shirts, wearing wraparound sunglasses and brandishing automatic weapons. For young veterans who loved military action but couldn't afford to stay in, Blackwater offered big money and plenty of opportunities to order people around. Blackwater's aggressive guards became the image of American cultural insensitivity, sometimes erasing the best efforts of our uniformed soldiers.

Blackwater is the private empire of billionaire Erik Prince, a major Republican fundraiser and bankroller of several fundamentalist Christian organizations. His private army employs some 2,300 active gunners and boasts a register of 21,000 ready to serve on call. He has the largest privately held arsenal in the country and the expertise and firepower to bring down a small country.

In 2006, Prince expanded internationally, forming a new subsidiary in Barbados, outside American taxes and regulation, to train foreign forces, often funded by American military aid. Elite Blackwater soldiers have conducted secretive "black jobs" for the CIA or other spy agencies.

Despite its financial success, Blackwater is under fire from two sides: Democratic critics who want accountability and families of the four men killed in Fallujah in 2004. The families have sued, alleging negligence.

Blackwater's lawyers assert it cannot be sued because it is part of the "Total Force." But, while Congress demands that it be subject to American military codes and international treaties, Blackwater takes the opposite view — it is not military, it's a civilian contractor. Big money has gone into D.C. lawyers, lobbyists and public-relations spinners to sell this apparent contradiction.

There have always been mercenaries, and a case can be made for limited use of contractors, but the Bush administration has erased the line between a national military and a private war machine. Iraq is our first outsourced war, siphoning billions of taxpayer dollars into the private war machine.

Military contractors have become an integral part of the American military, allowing the White House to understate troop numbers and avoid a military draft. Unpopular wars for oil or ideology can be waged without calling on middle-class families to send their children; mercenaries will fill the jobs if volunteers don't come forth.

In Prince, the Republicans' radical Christian base is wed to the war-machine base, the one providing votes and manpower, the other providing campaign funds.

The resulting combination is one of rigid ideology and eagerness to solve any problem with overwhelming force. The Bush administration convinced itself its views on Iraq were right, pushing aside contrary evidence, then failed to think beyond "shock and awe," with resultant horrors.

In a world of nuance and gray areas, ideological purity and bulging biceps will cause as many problems as they solve. Blackwater seems to epitomize a dark side of our psyche that should be troubling to all Americans.0




http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Fascism/ChristianRight_AmerFascism.html


The Christian Right and the Rise of American Fascism

by Chris Hedges

www.theocracywatch.org, Nov 15, 2004

(This is an article by Chris Hedges that no major publication will print.)





Dr. James Luther Adams, my ethics professor at Harvard Divinity School , told us that when we were his age, he was then close to 80, we would all be fighting the "Christian fascists."

The warning, given to me 25 years ago, came at the moment Pat Robertson and other radio and televangelists began speaking about a new political religion that would direct its efforts at taking control of all institutions, including mainstream denominations and the government. Its stated goal was to use the United States to create a global, Christian empire. It was hard, at the time, to take such fantastic rhetoric seriously, especially given the buffoonish quality of those who expounded it. But Adams warned us against the blindness caused by intellectual snobbery. The Nazis, he said, were not going to return with swastikas and brown shirts. Their ideological inheritors had found a mask for fascism in the pages of the Bible.

He was not a man to use the word fascist lightly. He was in Germany in 1935 and 1936 and worked with the underground anti-Nazi church, known as The Confessing Church, led by Dietrich Bonhoeffer. Adams was eventually detained and interrogated by the Gestapo, who suggested he might want to consider returning to the United States . It was a suggestion he followed. He left on a night train with framed portraits of Adolph Hitler placed over the contents inside his suitcase to hide the rolls of home movie film he took of the so-called German Christian Church, which was pro-Nazi, and the few individuals who defied them, including the theologians Karl Barth and Albert Schweitzer. The ruse worked when the border police lifted the top of the suitcases, saw the portraits of the Fuhrer and closed them up again. I watched hours of the grainy black and white films as he narrated in his apartment in Cambridge .

He saw in the Christian Right, long before we did, disturbing similarities with the German Christian Church and the Nazi Party, similarities that he said would, in the event of prolonged social instability or a national crisis, see American fascists, under the guise of religion, rise to dismantle the open society. He despaired of liberals, who he said, as in Nazi Germany, mouthed silly platitudes about dialogue and inclusiveness that made them ineffectual and impotent. Liberals, he said, did not understand the power and allure of evil nor the cold reality of how the world worked. The current hand wringing by Democrats in the wake of the election, with many asking how they can reach out to a movement whose leaders brand them "demonic" and "satanic," would not have surprised Adams . Like Bonhoeffer, he did not believe that those who would fight effectively in coming times of turmoil, a fight that for him was an integral part of the Biblical message, would come from the church or the liberal, secular elite.

His critique of the prominent research universities, along with the media, was no less withering. These institutions, self-absorbed, compromised by their close relationship with government and corporations, given enough of the pie to be complacent, were unwilling to deal with the fundamental moral questions and inequities of the age. They had no stomach for a battle that might cost them their prestige and comfort. He told me that if the Nazis took over America "60 percent of the Harvard faculty would begin their lectures with the Nazi salute." This too was not an abstraction. He had watched academics at the University of Heidelberg , including the philosopher Martin Heidegger, raise their arms stiffly to students before class.

a movie about this..it would be like, "yeah, right." But, YEAH! Get The Weinstein Bros on this and get it out in the public, mass knowledge, consciousness!

Thank the Universe for Michael Weinstein!

Peace not war

I was just informing my husband about the hold evangelicals are trying to get within the military-how timely. Thanks!

And from what I have observed from Bush's foreign policy the only long range strategy is the genocide of everyone in the world who in not a White, Straight, Evangelical, Republican.
That explains the Kellogg, Brown and Root Concentrations Camps for "Other Projects" at an initial cost of $385 million.
Maybe we'll share a gas chamber.

Perhaps the infiltration of the military is what should be worrying us, not sharing gas chambers.
And I'm aware of the camps built for detentions, but are they for Hispanics or Americans or?? They are worrisome, whatever their intent might be.

the small print says they are also for "other projects". REX 84 was devised to detain a half million dissenters as well as 20 million black Americans. The Miami Herald had a great story but Daniel Inoye refused to allow any discussion at the Iran/Contra hearings. Being the Fascist he is.

That is especially ironic since Inouye himself spent time in a detention camp as a Japanese American.

The Nazis put everyone who didn't toe the line in concentration camps. They started with Jewish people, gypsies, gay people - then expanded to include anyone who didn't agree with what they were doing.

These people are dead serious. And they won't stop until gays and adulterers are literally stoned in the streets.

The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood is a brilliantly prophetic foreshadowing of what they are about.

started in the name of God.

:eyes: :eyes::eyes::eyes::puke:

"95 percent of the complaints come from mainstream Christians".

Nazi Christmas (Some people seem to think that Hitler banned Christmas, but at no time did he ever ban Christmas or any other Christian holiday.)

SO many people out there fighting the good fight that I've learned about here on DU. Recommend!

Hitler






Well, said Weinstein, consider the 523rd Fighter Squadron, based at Cannon Air Force Base, N.M., which calls itself The Crusaders, and whose emblem consists of a sword, four crosses and a medieval knight’s helmet. They fly F-16s with payloads consisting of “a wide variety of conventional, precision guided and nuclear weapons.” And listen once again to Commander-in-Chief Bush, speaking in 2003 to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: “God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If this is a religious war — a “clash of civilizations,” waged by competing agents of God’s will — victory may be indistinguishable from Armageddon. God help the human race."

are stars and/or stylized planes.

three points of light. They are metaphoric stars.

I'd heard all the "God told me" bullshit, but I'd not heard that part. Horrifying.

if the quotation marks should not have included that last part. Seems over the top, even for the Chimp.

peas in a fucking pod.

every day. They say you are going to hell and you're sub human if you're gay or you don't believe in the myth of the rapture. :dem:

I don't want to be there.

I ask, who says they will be there? I do not know their unique situation with Jesus Christ (imo, my Savior), but people that are violently lusting of blood & do not treat other people who may not think & feel just as they do, as criminals and unworthy, goes against Jesus' teachings.

They can hurt the body, but they cannot hurt the soul. I believe I know my place after this life, I cannot speak for them, nor would I even want to, as they're the worst type of person - one who knows the story of the gospels and behave with hatred in the way they do.

I love seeing this story in the news! Like someone said, most of those complaining are Christians who are disgusted at these tactics.

back in their stupid face that they're full shit and have no idea what they're talking about.

Gotta appease the reich-wingers somehow.

I don't approve of this crap either.

And according to the story, 95 percent of the complaintants are mainstream Christians.

seemslikeadream

Was not this pictures from the nazi-rally in the 1934 where the old Field Marshall Otto von Hindenburg was been respected by the nazits?

The same year Hindenburg was burried, as he was dead, and the german Chanslor and Fuhrer was closed togheter, to get Hitler all the power he wanted.. Both as the "Chanslor" but also as the german President.. And as such he was his own shief... As he later was in the amered Forces...

No I dont "all good christians" suported the fasist.. MANY did it, but as I know it, it was a great dissent against the nazis in many christians homes, both before Hitler come to power, under and after.. Many good christians was been send to the camps.. Many died there not becouse they had fight the nazis. but becouse they just dont want to be a part of the nazi-goverment, or the party..

But many was glad for one thing.. They was getting work, and after the khaos of the old Weimar-Republic they was given work, and a desent wage to boot.. And it looks like the nazis was given the germans their life back.. In some prospect then

But as we all know it, it was not long time before the aggresive part of the nazism was given away, and the clean, eveil of the germany was given priority.. Firt it was the old germany who was cleansing itself, but after 1938, where germany was attaking a non-german place it was clear for germany that mr Hitler have startet a gambel..And it ended in the ruins of the german City's and more than 40 year with a divided Germany..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Its God's will.

I think you may find this interesting

It's my friend Jeff Wells site

http://rigint.blogspot.com/
http://rigorousintuition.ca/board/index.php

Don't think it's a coincidence.

BTW, my dad was a career USAF officer who retired in CO Spgs and this would have him completely mortified if he were alive. He was about as religious as my cats, and still managed to be the finest example of a human being I and many people have known. He thought organized religion was pretty much for crazy people.

I know just how they feel.

I truly believe that. They are hatemongers.

They just wouldn't hang out with him.

in that these are the sick that need healing. But then it occurred to me that these people don't want to be healed. They think they're right. I wonder if that would put them in the "Pharisee" column.

the ones who had him put on trial and had him crucified. They never learn you can't kill the truth, no matter how much it gets in the way of their agenda of lies. They can blow everything up and the truth will still be there staring them in the face. Some eon they may just give up and realize they are worshipping a false idol.

Commander-in-Chief Bush, speaking in 2003 to Palestinian Prime Minister Mahmoud Abbas, according to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz: “God told me to strike at al-Qaida and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam, which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If this is a religious war — a “clash of civilizations,” waged by competing agents of God’s will — victory may be indistinguishable from Armageddon. God help the human race."

should have had that printed on every paper and tv broadcast in the Nation but did mainstreamers hear what the crackhead said?

:-(

Over the years, I've been accosted by fundies who insist that I should give up my church and try theirs out. (These are strangers walking up to me on the street, by the way.)

One of them said to me "Well, if you think you have time." So, my church = going to hell and their church = being saved.

They make my teeth itch.

"wherever I go, there is my church."

And people complain that we gay folks try and recruit people... Yet I've never had any homosexuals knock my door and interrupt my dinner to tell me about the eternal glory of giving blowjobs. :/

do you mind if I use that next time a fundy wants me to come to their church?

K&R!!!

thanks for posting it. k&r.

fundies do not "get" democracy. they're enemies of the constitution (and every american, even themselves.)

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

I thought only God could trigger the rapture. That's the whole point of faith.

I just joined his foundation!

The Navy is generally pretty good, I used to run a ships bible study (Im Jewish) we would talk about both the old and new testament and our faith, it was on the flight deck mostly. But some of the shit I have heard about the army and particularly the air force makes me sick.

Keep talking, Weinstein.

a fundy christian military is a very scary thought.

K&R and thanks for posting.

Sid

www.secular.org

I've seen some terribly insufferable, self-righteous, judgmental stupid conflicts in the workplace.

Why do the fundies so often end up in "Human Relations", becoming walking oxymorons?

Garry Wills wrote the best discussion of this issue I've read, about a year ago:

http://www.nybooks.com/articles/19590

What's ironic is that I'm a moderately regular church-goer, but I'd never step in to one of those mega-church mind-control factories.

are NOT the same people. These so called christians are fakes and misled sheep. Please do not think that real believers in the God of the bible would ever do what our country and its soldiers are doing.

Sid

I am Buddhist, but from a Protestant European background. I follow the teachings of the Buddha and Jesus; I worship neither. It is practice, not words. The whackos in the military are teaching about words, not practice.

He who attends upon the sick attends upon me.
-Buddha

Funny ...mine says they were called people of the "Way". Who in the bible ever said that believers must be called christians? Where does the bible ever say that a believer should call themselves a christian? Additionally, do you think the Holy Spirit would direct people to kill the innocent because from what I read, that would never happen. Do yourself a favor. Blow the dust off of your bible and actually read it several times and study it and quit going to church. Churches are all places of spiritual poison. If you really read the bible and believe then -quote- "the Holy Spirit is able to lead you into all understanding".

as a non-christian, I read the Synoptic Gospels and the Gospel of Thomas like I read the sutras and other Buddhist works- as instruction, and inspiration, not something to blindly follow. Paul, who invented "christianity", was a charlatan and con man who significantly changed the message and direction of the human Jesus' teachings. Hence, I feel that the books of the NT which were written under his influence are of no significance to me.

As to going to church, I really don't, except to visit the place of my former employment as organist. And I have read much of the Bible, the Nag Hamadi writings, and the Dead Sea Scrolls (all in translation, of course). I also took a college course in the early Church. I think I know a bit about church history. It is one of the reasons I am not a "Christian".

Buddhism is about the practice of compassion, not belief; it is above all, a system of ethics. It really doesn't matter what one believes, it is what one does and how one lives their life. That is good enough for me. I try to help others and to make the world a better place, without expectation of reward now or in the "afterlife".

I'm not a christian. Looking in from the outside, they're all christians to me. Some might be good christians, and some might be bad. Some might be progressive christians, some might be fundamentalist.

But they're all still christians.

Sid

:hi:

:evilgrin:

Sid

:hi:

there are also fucked up Christians. The really scary ones are the fucked up ones who think they're alright.

30%??? Thirty fucking percent of troops are hardcore fundies? Look no more for who's coming to shove the likes of us into gulags.

I'm so leaving this country. :nuke:

techniques, period. Radical times call for radical and clear language. They are using strong language, and it is strong language that needs to counter it. There is a clear difference between a spiritual path and a CULT. Fundamentalist groups too often fit the definition of a CULT!! There I said it.
These are cultist brain conditioning techniques, isolation, fear mongering, bad nutrition, along with repetitive words, drills, and most importantly a breakdown of the personality. The public schools have been dumbed down in this country for at least 30 years, which left generations of kids lacking in rational thinking skills, so ripe for these kinds of conditionings, including Faux News style propaganda.
Cults are destroying this country, people need to be deprogrammed. Deprogramming needs to be done soon, and/or during the next administration so that more people can wake up from it. Others will not be convinced.
Another difference between a spirital path and a cult is that spiritual paths lead to increased understanding and an improvement in personal relationships, while cults destroy relationships between people. Spiritual paths open one up to wisdom from collective unconscious/higher self/God while cults follow the ego of charasmatics and personalities of people on Earth whose ego and pocketbook need feeding. BIIIG difference here.
(Crap i did it again...meant as a general response--where's my coffee?)

You have got it! They are all about power and control, not belief, faith or spirituality.

Based on many of the comments I've read from troops on places like youtube and others, I would have thought it was higher. Yeah, it's fucking scary. It's one of the many reasons I refuse to stick yellow ribbons on my car and jump on the "support the troops" bullshit. Our military downright scares me. I see it as this massive, well-armed apparatus of religious fundamentalism and corporate tyranny, and many of the people in it have already proven that they don't give a shit about who they step on in order to advance their rather whacked beliefs. Point out civilian casualties in Iraq to them, and it's like they don't even exist. Their lives are worth nothing to them because they aren't Christian.

I'm far more worried about right wing Christians in this country than I am about the Taliban living in caves halfway across the world. We have the Taliban right here, and they carry the most advanced and lethal weapons on the planet.

anywhere in particular,

but don't let the door hit you on the way out anyway, ok?

pushing fundie Christianity is highly illegal.

I don't understand how it has gone this far. :shrug:

Kick / Rec

Or, simply exploits them in order to further another agenda, which is basically what Bush has done.

He adds that many of those soldiers—hardcore end-timers and Dominionists—desperately want America to invade Iran, thereby triggering the biblical prophecy of the Rapture.

k&r

link and thought it must be some other country.

What an isidious bunch of hypocritical hyenas.

I thought it was some kind of waterboarding thing.

:nuke:

Thanks for that photo :hi:

Sid

Their religion has been highjacked

Funny, they'd say the same thing about you.

--IMM

If you have the military on your side you can force anything on the people.

When ever C-span or some other show has these fundies on TV they always say they are not trying to bring about a theocracy in this country and the next words out of their mouths is that this is a Christian country founded on Christian ideals and that the founding fathers meant it to be that way.

They use stealth to get on school boards and other political positions. They appear so harmless when running then when they are in power they set about their fundie agenda.

They need to be stopped when ever and where ever you find them. They are not about having a seat at the table, they want all the seats at the table and the table too!

"Our job here is to kick ass, take names, and leave sucking chest wounds on the people who are trying to engage the machinery of the state to push their biblical worldview."
:patriot:

including people with religious beliefs. To justify a prejudice based on the misdeeds of some is a RWers game. Don't fall into it.

The belief itself...no.

that any of our Democratic (or Republican) presidential candidates or leaders might publicly discuss or denounce this. Same with Blackwater. Where are Obama, Clinton, Biden, Pelosi, Reid on this? For that matter, where are the Joint Chiefs? Or are they all bible-thumpers too? Goddamn it, this is NOT officially a Christian country, nor are our armed forces. Yet! :sarcasm:

for the Dominionist cause. Donimionists have a well-known and openly stated goal of taking over the government starting at the lowest levels and working their way up. They have been at it for 30 years.

Who is to say they aren't now coming out of hiding and showing their true colors? This is one possible explanation for inaction by the "Dems" that I have considered.

because many people refuse to believe that this is happening.

Newsflash: Has been, is and will be!

Christians like this are only harmless when they have no power. My old church used to mourn the fact that they couldn't enforce their "laws" on everyone like they could in the "good old days."

I'd rather not live in a new dark age, myself.

Our job here is to kick ass, take names, and leave sucking chest wounds on the people who are trying to engage the machinery of the state to push their biblical worldview."

That should be part of the mission statement of the Democratic Party.

It is important to expose the hypocrisy and bigotry of the “Christian” Right in America. The news media has utterly failed to do that, and that is a very serious and dangerous mistake. The media has also failed to effectively report the extent to which the Christian Right has attempted to dominate our local, state and federal governments, as well as the U.S. Military, and the extent to which they have succeeded. That’s understandable, of course, because whenever the news media does expose something about the Christian Right, they are accused of “persecuting Christians” and being “anti-religion.” Consequently, most Americans have no idea of how much influence and power has been gained by the Christian Right over the last twenty-five years, and particularly in the last ten years or so.

Some news stories to that effect have been reported, though. For instance, I saw a brief mention on a television news program of how the U. S. Air Force Academy finally began to address, albeit reluctantly, the complaints from many cadets who have been heavily pressured and imposed upon by a very large group of self-righteous evangelical “Christian” cadets who were trying to dominate and rule the academy. I also saw a brief story about how the Navy is trying to rein in young evangelical Navy Chaplains who are blatantly proselytizing and trying to sell their sectarian brand of religion, even though they are supposed to provide non-denominational, multi-faith services.

This kind of arrogant behavior is typical of right-wing conservative religious zealots, and it is particularly true of those who lead the American Christian Right. That has become very apparent over the last couple of decades with their aggressive, imposing, intrusive efforts to fight against things they wrongly hate. After all, their agenda is to condemn and destroy or eliminate anything and everything they judge as “non-Christian” and therefore “harmful” — which unfortunately includes a lot of things that you and I would deem harmless, natural, and even good!

For example, they are against the constitutional separation of church and state, and against religious equality and pluralism. Instead, they’ve been pushing and fighting, supposedly to “restore God to America” and make it “the land of Jesus,” claiming that was the intent of the Christ and the founding fathers. That, however, is simply a ruse. It’s just not true. In fact, they totally disregard, ignore and deny some of the core teachings of the Christ. And, as I will show you, they totally disregard, ignore and deny the founding fathers?? clear and consistent call for religious pluralism, freedom of religion, freedom from religious bigotry, and separation of church and state. Instead, the leaders of the Christian Right erroneously think that religious freedom means license to impose their sectarian brand of religion on everyone else.

http://reformationcomingsoon.bravehost.com/AmericanHistory.html

The above was quoted from the book, Memoirs of a Prodigal Son of Man, by Joseph J. Adamson, and the web site contains a revised and improved summary of the message he delivers.

Let the delusional fundies fight their little "crusade" by themselves. They can also get their own funding from now on through their corporate mega-churches and stop bleeding the taxpayers dry for their immoral war. But if they're going to persecute soldiers for not complying to their crusade then they will stand alone on the front lines. We will waste no more human lives on you.

First, no matter what they are yakking about, ask,
"what did Christ teach us about that?"
Then, "well, who did say what you are talking about?"
Then, "well, then, you are following the beliefs & teachings of someone besides Christ, aren't you?"
Or, "what you say contradicts the teachings of Christ. He did not teach us to do that."
Then, "I thought you were a Christian, a person who takes the teachings of Christ to heart?"
This is usually enough to shake their dogma so badly they will stop. And it avoids them trying to label you as anti Christian.
Never argue with them, just throw it all back to what Christ taught. Works every time.

They are 100% sold to the belief system they have swallowed. Their whole life story is completely imbedded in those beliefs. Unfortunately it may take their holocaust to show them that there ain't no pretty guy comin' down to take them up anywhere. Perhaps those who do not drink coolaid after that and can live with themselves will come around to the true teachings of Christ.

http://ianmasters.org/masters_llc_061707_80.mp3

If you have never heard Ian Masters before, you are in for a real treat, and together with Mikey Weinstein it's just a progressive's bounty for the holiday. You can find more downloads by googling Mikey Weinstein+Ian Masters. They are a mutual admiration society, and always informative together as well as separately. Check out Ian Masters on your Pacifica station, or go to his site for downloads. His two-hour shows on Sunday are a great way to make those weekend chores fly by.

:hi:

seemslikeadream

The rapture, or what you want to call it, wil come when its time.. And not before.. This "cristians" as they say itself wil not help alot before they are heard.. And I really doubt they wil do one thing to start it..
To be honest.. I fear the term "religious soldiers" becouse they can do what they want, and find a "system" for it somehwere in the bible.. As in the age of the Crusades, soldiers murdered and plundred as they please. All in the name of "Good" and therefore everything they was doing was right.. Even Pope gave absoluisme for everything the crusades was doing, and even was given a fair share of the plunders.. The arabian world have not forget what the crusades meant to their world yet.. 800 year since.. And now US are on the bring of use the same rethorick the old middle-age pope's was using in the 12-1300s.. Have the christian right not learn a thing about the crusades??. And what it meant?.. DO they really belive they can impose a new system of the arabians.. Or that they can kill everyone who dosent want to be a part of christianity.. Or that the Christinity can be imposed to the peopole by the sword... The Bible warned what to do, if you live by the sword, you die by the sword...
And I am absolutely in fear, for what can come to happend, if you get a armed forces, high on "religous fanatism" and the wil to use it..

This is dead wrong, to try to evanglise the armed forces, so it can be used not for defend of US, but to fight a war where the armed men of the forces belive they are the one to get the rapture happening..

As you may see, I am a cristian myself, but I really doubt that they are doing lords doing with this indoctoreing of soldiers.. And I belive it is wrong if you take the letter of the american law about this.. This is madness, just simpel madness..

What you belive in, or not belive in should not be the case if you want to enlist in the army, and fight for your country.. To try to deny people who are not as active christian as themself, and even be a atheist to fight a war.. I belive thast in last war the US once fight, you wil find many, many thousands, maybee ten of thounsands who have not been active crhistian or maybee not even beliving at all.. And they manage to fight a war for US pretty well...

To try to impose a belive system on others, is wrong, if you want to belive, then belive. But not try to push it on others.. Thats my belive.. And I belive...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

those who want one will create one and blame it on God.

fascisthunter

And I say, man cannot deside when the rapture are coming.. I really doubt this evangelical Christians who are trying to impose their belife on the armed forces are doing things to suport the way of the rapture.. Rather the oposite..

What they are doing, is making the way for FACISM in a new form. Now in the form for "christianity" where the Christianity" is been kutting of in all the maning the christians have trying to make it for the last 2000 year or so.. The form this evangelical christian are building have not with the love the crhistians once tried to teatch.. This more like facism, bad, ugly facism...

I am happy for one thing.. my old fosterfather, both my grandfathers are not here to see what US are doing today.. If they was, they maybee wil be more afraid than I am.. Becouse they KNOW what Facism was, and they was fighting it for 5 year (1940-1945). And other in my family was prisoners in the german camps...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

I appreciate your thoughts, there are some really bad things happening in this country of mine and everyone that sees this must speak out, keep speaking out, shouting, put themselves on the gears.

Look at my sign line click on the words :hug: :hi:


http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC/pacificafsm.html
In an informal oral history (date unknown), Savio discusses his involvement in Southern Civil Rights organizing in the early 1960's; his political activities after returning from the South, and the political scene on campus; campus policies on student advocacy and events leading to the development of the Free Speech Movement and activities of the FSM in Fall 1964; Savio discusses his perception of his role and the role of others in shaping and guiding FSM activities. At the end of part 1 and in part 2, Suzanne Goldberg comments on her involvement in student activism on campus.

http://content.cdlib.org/xtf/view?docId=kt896nb2pw&brand=oac&doc.view=entire_text


http://www.savio.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4YVp7YJa05Y


"There's a time when the operation of the machine becomes so odious, makes you so sick at heart, that you can't take part, you can't even passively take part, and you've got to put your bodies upon the gears and upon the wheels, upon the levers, upon all the apparatus, and you've got to make it stop! And you've got to indicate to the people who run it, to the people who own it, that unless you're free, the machine will be prevented from working at all!"

seemslikeadream

Thank you.. I belive most peopole is really, really worried about what is happening in US today.. Some maybee just cant give a cent worth of thougs of what is happening there.. But for them, who try to understand the whole thing is going from bad, to mutch worse than it have been for a long, long, long time... US today is like a loose train, we dont know where to start to stop the train to hit someone and kill a lot of people.. It is not everyday we have a train on the lose.. But someday the train is coming, and we haven't a clue where to stop, to try to stop it from going over and kill many peopele. What we can do is try to get people clear of the tracks and try our best to stop it when we can..Even that i mean destroy the train..

I really hope this is not the case in US. I really hope you in the US and we on the outside can stop this train to go highwire, and that we dosent need to destry the tracks to let the train stop.. I really hope that US can stop this maniac, and that many of the systems who can stop this for happening again.. I doubt it wil be easy.. And I belive this meniac wil destroy many homes, may lifes, many countrys before they are stoped.. America today, is like a big fulloaded train, totaly out of controll. And someday america wil found it without tracks.. And then what?

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Some of us are trying very hard, we are all so worried about what is happening, many people in this country haven't got the slightest idea about what is going on, they don't think at all, they just don't think. They are sleepwalking.

seemslikeadream

Many germans was doing that to.. Sleepwaking, and dont care to se what was heppening in Germany, maybee before it was to late.. Facism, are never coming bluntly right into your face.. It is coming slowely, carefully and then, when the time is right, they are puting everything into one basket and then facism...

It is horrible to see what is happening in the US.. But I really, hope that the americans as I know them can fight this back, to the caves and back to the rocks they once climbed out of.. That the "think-thanks" at the right, can be scrutinized, and find no valid anymore.. It is many who deserve a corth hearing, maybee even prison time.. Where is dressing nice and have verry proper speaking.. But their beliving is dark as hell

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

a peaceful human (I try) who doesn't have any desire to own a gun or take part in violent acts. Even if I wanted to physically fight back (and I don't) the government at all levels is armed to the teeth. And then every other citizen it would seem has a private little arsenal, many of which probably support the kind of government we now have. I would hate to see the horror of nationwide bloodshed happen here. So how to fight back? We are speaking out and our voices are quashed by the corporate owned media. Any suggestions are welcome.

balantz

I doubt it is easy, maybee even verry, verry hard to not have the opportunity to fight back, with peacefully means it be.. And the goverment have all the power their need to stop protestors, even the peacefully ones if they want it. And if half what is comming out from the US today, that peacefully demostrations have been arrested, and even fined, it not easy to fight back, with peacefully means.. Facism as we all know it, have all the world to fight back, and to beat down dissens.. Even the peacefully one...

I dont belive in guns ownership. Even that it is writen down in the american constituion, and "all" americans have the right to bear arms as they please it.. I really doubt the american founders belived that all the 300 millions americans have the right, to use full-automatic weapons on a "shopping spree" if they are fired, ore they are given bad grades in School.. And the list goes on, and on... But then I am just a europan, who have grown up in a world where gun is for hunt, and hunting alone, and not for killing peopole..

I dont know how to fight back, as most of the worlds peopole dont know how to beat the evil, til the evil are there all to see, and most of the peopole understand that if they dosent fight back they wil be beaten.. And as all history goes, if the public just understand what is happening, they wil fight back as they have nothing to loose.. Freedom is a presious item, and easy goone, but hardt fighted to win.. And it looks like the american public is to understand that now.. Freedom is never easy won, but hard won when the evil is fighed back to where it belong..

That the Coporate owned media dosent want, or dear to tell the public that the dissens against mr Bush are mutch greater that they know is not unknown from other places in the world. Many countrys have experienced that. But so long mr Bush are not willing to "Kill" the internet, and close it, they can not kill the dissent.. As the Sovjets and the Chinese goverments experinced in the 1970s and in the 1980s.. The sovjet system broke down, both from outside pressure, but also from inside pressure there anti-goverment matriale was sending from the all the places in the world.. The "underground" as the it was called, was a place where both educaded and less educated public come togeter to speak, to write and to song against the goverment.. And in many cases they was fighting the dictatorship from the inside out.. And it was not with the help of the Internet, or other advanced systems, but with rather primitive technic where paper after paper was writen down, and then reprodused in the thousands... houndred of thousands..

Today with the Internet, You american can fight back using the tool whiths is the greatest advanced in the net.. Nobody can "close" down the net.. Even that the lines in to US is "closed" the sites where the "rebel" is coming, can be outside of the US.. And I really doubt the goverment of US want to close down all ties to the outher world.. The border with Canada and Mexico is just to big to controll for the goverment.. And even a big ugly fence cant close it down.. I guess it is not enough steel in the whole US to do that...

America can again be the place of "the free" but you have to fight this evil who are claiming to represent you. You have to fight them everywhere and to wote the opposite that your goverment want you yo do. Fight them in the corts, fight them in the LAW, Fight them in the Congress and Senate. Fight them everywhere you can.. And you wil get your country back... But you have to get the big majority to this fight too... Not just "the liberal elite" as many put it.. But ordinary americans, who have a rather conservative outlook at life... Then you may manage to fight this evil once and for all.. And maybee, just maybee even given your amazing Constitutional law back to..

Or, you maybee have to re-write the whole thing, to made a New United States of America?.. The old is pretty mutch closed down for the moment.. Even that they have not told you so... It mutch similiar to what the germans do in the 1930s.. The Weimar-Republic law was never despanded and even in the 1940s the Contituion of the Weimar-Republic was current law.. But the two laws that Hitler manage to put into place, was the REALLY law the 3 Reich was building its law into..

And we know the rest.. The rest is history as they say it

Diclotican

SOrry my bad engelish, not my native language

balantz

I doubt it is easy, maybee even verry, verry hard to not have the opportunity to fight back, with peacefully means it be.. And the goverment have all the power their need to stop protestors, even the peacefully ones if they want it. And if half what is comming out from the US today, that peacefully demostrations have been arrested, and even fined, it not easy to fight back, with peacefully means.. Facism as we all know it, have all the world to fight back, and to beat down dissens.. Even the peacefully one...

I dont belive in guns ownership. Even that it is writen down in the american constituion, and "all" americans have the right to bear arms as they please it.. I really doubt the american founders belived that all the 300 millions americans have the right, to use full-automatic weapons on a "shopping spree" if they are fired, ore they are given bad grades in School.. And the list goes on, and on... But then I am just a europan, who have grown up in a world where gun is for hunt, and hunting alone, and not for killing peopole..

I dont know how to fight back, as most of the worlds peopole dont know how to beat the evil, til the evil are there all to see, and most of the peopole understand that if they dosent fight back they wil be beaten.. And as all history goes, if the public just understand what is happening, they wil fight back as they have nothing to loose.. Freedom is a presious item, and easy goone, but hardt fighted to win.. And it looks like the american public is to understand that now.. Freedom is never easy won, but hard won when the evil is fighed back to where it belong..

That the Coporate owned media dosent want, or dear to tell the public that the dissens against mr Bush are mutch greater that they know is not unknown from other places in the world. Many countrys have experienced that. But so long mr Bush are not willing to "Kill" the internet, and close it, they can not kill the dissent.. As the Sovjets and the Chinese goverments experinced in the 1970s and in the 1980s.. The sovjet system broke down, both from outside pressure, but also from inside pressure there anti-goverment matriale was sending from the all the places in the world.. The "underground" as the it was called, was a place where both educaded and less educated public come togeter to speak, to write and to song against the goverment.. And in many cases they was fighting the dictatorship from the inside out.. And it was not with the help of the Internet, or other advanced systems, but with rather primitive technic where paper after paper was writen down, and then reprodused in the thousands... houndred of thousands..

Today with the Internet, You american can fight back using the tool whiths is the greatest advanced in the net.. Nobody can "close" down the net.. Even that the lines in to US is "closed" the sites where the "rebel" is coming, can be outside of the US.. And I really doubt the goverment of US want to close down all ties to the outher world.. The border with Canada and Mexico is just to big to controll for the goverment.. And even a big ugly fence cant close it down.. I guess it is not enough steel in the whole US to do that...

America can again be the place of "the free" but you have to fight this evil who are claiming to represent you. You have to fight them everywhere and to wote the opposite that your goverment want you yo do. Fight them in the corts, fight them in the LAW, Fight them in the Congress and Senate. Fight them everywhere you can.. And you wil get your country back... But you have to get the big majority to this fight too... Not just "the liberal elite" as many put it.. But ordinary americans, who have a rather conservative outlook at life... Then you may manage to fight this evil once and for all.. And maybee, just maybee even given your amazing Constitutional law back to..

Or, you maybee have to re-write the whole thing, to made a New United States of America?.. The old is pretty mutch closed down for the moment.. Even that they have not told you so... It mutch similiar to what the germans do in the 1930s.. The Weimar-Republic law was never despanded and even in the 1940s the Contituion of the Weimar-Republic was current law.. But the two laws that Hitler manage to put into place, was the REALLY law the 3 Reich was building its law into..

And we know the rest.. The rest is history as they say it

Diclotican

SOrry my bad engelish, not my native language

I enjoy reading your form of English. The American brand gets a little boring sometimes. Thanks for your kind words of support. Thank you for your solidarity in this time of eruptions from the dark recesses of our collective soul. Knowing that there are people like you in the world who are able to see through the ugliness and reach out to some of us who are on the American side of the human struggle for freedom and justice is a comfort to me. I pray that the internet remains open for us to communicate with each-other here and abroad.

balantz

You are NOT alone in the world;). Even that many tell you that your political leaning is a dead horse, and you just have to stick with the current administration, and love it as it is. You are NOT alone in the world... MANY in US, and many overseas are really worry, and want to say thet they suport you, even that your goverment act tactless, and regular stupid.. Your country is still a country many of us admires, for your freedom, for your amazing graps of things.. Your attitude to problems is just amazing.. Climb over the Problem, tear down the problem, whatever the cost, just get the problem out of the way.. Amazing..

Your strugle for freedom, are my strugle for freedom.. We cant sit here in Europe and belive we are free to have our highwon freedom, and democracy, and just see US going down the pipe. We have the right, and maybee even the duty to tell the goverment in the States that they have to behave as democracy.. And let the pepole get they says.. Even that it maybee are hurting the case... This Administration of your, have screwed the public for long, And it is overdue that your goverment are been told to stop attacing otters, an to behave as a verry childliss little Bratt..

Mr Bush is maybee grown up, but he act as a rather childlike youth.. Even my then 5 year old nephew was not that a bratt when he was in the "Mood" to be angry.. And he was a verry angry little child when he first get fired up....

My engelish is not good.. Rather bad.. I guess my engelish, is little British engelish, and then some american engelish... I hope my engelish, is good enough to you to understand then;)
American engelish, is a good engelish, but it is rather blend sometimes... The same word can be used over and over again.. That is not good for the language as a whole...

But then. You are not alone in the world.. Many, may have the same goal as you, and they want back United States of America as they once was seeing it, in the "heydays" of the american republic.. Not this quasi-dictatorship as mr Bush want it... This is not America, but rather a nightmare of a america..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

That there are many who have hope for America is comforting to know. I knew things weren't going that great in our government, and that the news didn't quite get all the stories right, but I have been so hypnotized by decades of lie building that the awful truth has just recently become known by me. Being very low income I had not had access to the internet until just recently.

Peace

balantz

The truth, is allways ugly.. And the Internet is amazing to tear down lie from the goverment.. All goverment have their "lie" list, but after the Internet, you just cant close down the truth anymore.. I dont know if DU is the only truth against this Administration, but as I allways says, if half the truth is right.. Then US is really, really into some ugly, hard and bumpy ride before they are coming out on the other side.. Maybee more vice, and not that easy to been lied to next time.. I hope that US this time get the chance to tear down decades of lying, decades of "we are the best country in the world, and have the right to do as we please":. America is a great nation, where I allmoust settled at once... But I am glad I dosent emigrated there now..
I see, it can often bee a shoock to discover that your country are not that great nation you allways was belive to bee.. In the way that the government is telling you then. United States of America IS a great nation, who have given the world extremely mutch where we still are werry happy about. For more than 60 year United States was one of the main friends of Vestern Europe.. Without them our history after WW2 would have been seen verry difirent out.. But today, it is maybee United States that mutch bee teatch from the european nations how to behave in some way?

I have had the Net since 1997, where i bought my first Modem... And I wil say, I have used the net from the day one.. Now 3 PCs after, I stil are here, on the internet.. And I have to say. It is a fantastic tool if you just know how to use it.. Amazing what you can find here.. Just amazing...
I hope you are here to stay, and to "wake up" from your sleep and smel the ratt as you see it.. That is the only way you can learn that not everything is clean and pretty in the way of the goverment.. And i belive that it maybee be harder if you really, really belived in the goverment of your country...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

I just didn't know how deep, and how far along. I'm good though, I don't let it all take me down. I have already kicked the nazi-dope and have risen above the confusion. I am at peace.

balantz

Ok;). Good to know.. But the first way to understand is to come to grasps that the goverment is not what it used to be.. I have the feeling that the goverment of United States of America have not been the same since 1963 when JFK was killed in Dallas.. The whole thing is to musty for my taste... I dont want to speculate, but I really belive that "something" was rotting when he was killed, and that the truth, about the murder are an another that we are learned to understand...

It is also great to know, that you are at peace with yourself. It is important to be a peace, even that the world are in turbulence...

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language..

Perhaps since the beginning of time.

Sorry for my bad Norwegian, I never learned it. :+

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tn0fdKsQWg


Early every year the seeds are growing
Unseen, unheard they lie beneath the ground
Would you know before their leaves are showing
That with weeds all your garden will abound?

If you close your eyes, stop your ears
Shut your mouth then how can you know ?
For seeds you cannot hear may not be there
Seeds you cannot see may never grow

In January you've still got the choice
You can cut the weeds before they start to bud
If you leave them to grow high they'll silence your voice
And in December you may pay with your blood

So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Shut your mouth and take it slow
Let others take the lead and you bring up the rear
And later you can say you didn't know

Every day another vulture takes flight
There's another danger born every morning
In the darkness of your blindness the beast will learn to bite
How can you fight if you can't recognise a warning?

Today you may earn a living wage
Tomorrow you may be on the dole
Though there's millions going hungry you needn't disengage
For it's them, not you, that's fallen in the hole

It's alright for you if you run with the pack
It's alright if you agree with all they do



If fascism is slowly climbing back



It's not here yet so what's it got to do with you?

The weeds are all around us and they're growing
It'll soon be too late for the knife
If you leave them on the wind that around the world is blowing
You may pay for your silence with your life

So close your eyes, stop your ears,
Shut your mouth and never dare
And if it happens here they'll never come for you
Because they'll know you really didn't care

Peggy Seeger

seemslikeadream

I dont I have heard the song before..

Diclotican

Sorry my bad engelish, not my native language

Could you imagine what George Washington would say right now?

This is all rooted deeply in this culture of conquest.

Check out this link:
http://3tgdesigns.com/ChristianSoldierDesigns.html

K&R

Lt. General Jerry Boykin, US Army. Do a deep google search.

Discussing the battle against a Muslim warlord in Somalia, Boykin told another audience, "I knew my God was bigger than his. I knew that my God was a real God and his was an idol."

"We in the army of God, in the house of God, kingdom of God have been raised for such a time as this," Boykin said last year.

On at least one occasion, in Sandy, Ore., in June, Boykin said of President Bush: "He's in the White House because God put him there."

http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/1016-01.htm

What kind of a Christ is this they fight and die for? Not the compassionate one I know.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R9ulGK5nU8

Silent Warrior


Long ago, for many years
White men came in the name of god
They took their land, they took their lives
A new age has just begun

They lost their gods, they lost their smile
They cried for help for the last time.
Liberty was turning into chains
But all the white men said
Thats the cross of changes

In the name of God - the fight for gold
These were the changes.
Tell me - is it right - in the name of god
These kind of changes ?

They tried to fight for liberty
Without a chance in hell, they gave up.
White men won in the name of god
With the cross as alibi

Theres no God who ever tried
To change the world in this way.
For the ones who abuse his name
Therell be no chance to escape
On judgement day

In the name of God - the fight for gold
These were the changes.
Tell me - is it right - in the name of god
These kind of changes ?

Tell me why, tell me why, tell why
The white men said:
Thats the cross of changes ?

Tell me why, tell me why, tell why,
In the name of god
These kind of changes

Here's Mikey's website again:

http://militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

Well, it seems 70% of it is. Let's hope they can keep the fundamentalists at bay.

For it is people just like Weinstein that gave us our democracy that we are
squandering as fast as quick silver.

a bunch of fellow DU'ers drooling over a Republican (And a defender of Iran-Contra).

Or didn't anybody else read that far?

:wow:

Despite that, thank somebody's GOD the man seems to be fighting for a good cause now. Seems like kind of a conflict there with his past activities.

this is what DU is all about.

I'm only disappointed that there was a mere 9,000 complaints

as it deserves to be

Religion is the trouble in Iraq. Who is stupid enough to believe, that God wants some one who was forced, to to say their is a God.

And thanks for all of the subsequent info that you posted within the body of the thread. :thumbsup:


K&R

The fundie Mafia has got to be stopped.

The Nazi army used to have belt buckles on all their soldiers which read "Gott Mit Uns" (God With Us). How long can we expect before American soldiers are required by the Christian fundamentalists to wear the same slogan on their belt buckles?

If it is, Arnie's wearing an SS Totenkopf insignia buckle.

:hi:

and Arnie is proudly showing it off

DOESN'T fall far from the tree.

That's a Nazi SS belt buckle??????

This needs it's own OP to get the word out. I don't care how good an environmentalist he is pretending to be (it's obvious to me now that it is only a pretense) - this makes him completely unfit to serve in public office in the US, IMHO.

Or did he get it on Ebay?

I created this earlier this year. Please check this out:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=LjPs3bFQxKo

This information is very troubling. I really had no idea that the Evangels were that much infiltrated into the armed forces. I mean pilots flying with nukes and Hell-bent on creating an armageddon gives me a real scary feeling. I wonder if there is a comprehensive study on this that Moyers or Frontline could put together. Perhaps it has been done, I don't know, I don't catch a lot of TV stuff. Is there any of this documented on youtube I wonder?

I may have posted this already, I know there is more out there, I'm looking around now :hi:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OaXs8MdmXWY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okLFCQTO-a0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQRiAnYj4gY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9h3xG-kQaQI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWaZgllv6HE

They're like cancer when they get that way! Metastasized.

now whether that came from Rumsfeld, or from Jerry Falwell who used to speak to the dimwit EVERY DAY, it's not exactly known - but should be. Since Americans are supposed to be free under the Constitution to follow or not follow any religion they desire...why were they being forced to pray for that a-hole.?

This is great. Go, Weinstein, Go!!

I have had it!! With those fundamentalists! I hate, hate, those sweaty doomday preachers who also rake in money from poor/rich people thinking they'd go to hell if they didn't give.

I like what one of my dearest friends said... "Not my God!"

http://atheism.about.com/b/2007/11/15/evangelical-christian-cancer-in-americas-air-force-military.htm

Following the release of the “Brady Report,” West Point graduate and Secretary of the Air Force Mike Wynne, ignoring the existing code of ethics, issued another “code of ethics” that allowed evangelical proselytizing. A month later, in an effort to appease the religious right, Wynne issued an even softer “code of ethics.” Amazingly, Wynne’s document is in complete violation of the code of ethics issued in 1997 by Secretary of the Air Force Sheila Widnall prohibiting proselytizing by commanders and other officers.

The pre-existing Air Force code of ethics in The Little Blue Book states: “Military professionals must remember that religious choice is a matter of individual conscience. Professionals, and especially commanders, must not take it upon themselves to change or coercively influence the religious views of subordinates.”




Air Force Secretary To Visit Minot


http://www.kfyrtv.com/News_Stories.asp?news=10495

The secretary of the Air Force is coming to Minot to see how nuclear weapons are handled there.

The Air Force says Michael Wynne will be there tomorrow. The visit comes after Pentagon officials reported that a B-52 bomber from the Minot base was mistakenly armed with six nuclear warheads and flown across several states last month.

Senator Kent Conrad says he thinks Wynne wants to hear what happened, and make certain it never happens again.

Friday is the day set aside by Air Combat Command to "stand down" from normal operations as a response to the August 30th incident.