Guam to have more say in Democratic Primary than Florida --

If you're a Floridian, I hope you are doing something better with your time than poring over candidates' position papers and painstakingly making a decision on who you will support because YOU DON'T COUNT. Your vote isn't going to be counted. Florida isn't going to be counted. On election night the pundits are going to skip right over Florida and all the IDIOTS who got themselves down to the polls are going to be scratching their heads wondering why they bothered.

I know. This might come as a shock, but you might as well stay home and clean our your garage because Florida will have NO DELEGATES seated at the convention. They couldn't even get hotel reservations for the event!

With 210 delegates, Florida would have had the fourth-largest say in the selection of a Democratic nominee. With Florida out of the equation, I wonder how the election at large will be affected.

I also wonder how Democracy at large will be affected, because I believe that when one whole state is shut out of the election process, that leaves the rest of the "democratic process" in question.

Go to the Democratic National Convention FAQ on the website and click around the map to see the delegates each state will seat -- Florida has none. Guam will have more say in selected our candidate than Florida.

http://www.demconvention.com/faq.html

(oh, and if you think this won't affect you because you live in Oregon or Minnesota or Oklahoma -- think again! Florida sitting this election out throws all the math out the window.)

If you think 2000 was a clusterfuck, just wait.

What is the endgame? If states keep pushing those primaries forward, we'll be having them the day after elections...

and they are going to mighty pissed come election day.

this travesty covered in the news.

best kept secret. they don't want us to talk about it or get pissed or even notice. that would put the spotlight on the end of their tenure. no, lets ignore this and let them keep keeping on.

this was done to appease Rahmn the DLC and Hillary anyone who doesn't get this yet ..isn't paying attention!!

Our FDP is lead by a woman who has taken $35,000 bucks from a big repiglican lobbiest..while on salary from the dem party!

she won't allow decention...and has blackballed anyone who has come forward to expose her!

the dem party is fla is totally infiltrated!

a disgusted dem from Fl.

fly

crickets...that's what i get.

Tell as many as you can locally in Fla..damn sure... the news papers aren't telling the story..so we again have to be the news..get email addresses and get the info out there..we need to take the party back in Fla...

there were two people who stood up to Karen Thurman at the convention..one was thrown out before he could say a thing..and one was ignored and he presented reasons to remove Karen Thurman..and it wasn't even voted on to remove Karen Thurman..get involved..bitching on DU won't do it..and crickets..is nonsence others here have said, over and over get involved..run for positions in the DEC, run for SEC chair positons..do something in your local.

do something where you are..raise hell..many of us have.

did it work today..no... will it tommorrow..if we have enough voices it sure will!

our dem party in fla..i am 100% convinced is infiltraited at some of the highest levels.

what do we do..well we can bitch here or ..i know what i do..i am involved ...i run an internet group in fla and inform the people .. thousands ..of what is going on, daily....but i can't do it alone no one can..and neither can all the other great dems who's voices have been shoved in closets!

get to meetings..go to local dem clubs ..talk to people..ask why no one is talking about it, if they are not...tell the people what the f is going on!!

one voice can be a loud one..if you use your voice.

fly

your local DFA group and get involved and in a group..there are many many many in each county in FL..

go to meetings, you can easily get into a internet group..to stay involved and get active.

I also have a group I send to in FL, that send to other groups all over the state..butI am not at liberty to give out names on a public message board..most people want to stay annonomous..
and work within groups.

There are many yahoo Fl. groups...

fly

but I see you already did that.

Yep, she sounds like a bought and paid for shill for the GOP power structure.

Good and serious housecleaning in order.

Most of the Dems voted along though, which sucks just as bad.

So once again FL voters are suffering because 1) The Repugs are assholes and 2) The Dems don't fight them and 3) The Dem national party has peculiar ideas about when to flex its muscles and at whom.

and what dems..well just those tied to the dlc of course!!

and what did Karen Thurman do as leader to stop it..why nothing...

because it was planned for...

again is there one person still around who thinks Hillary will not seat a Fla delegation???????

this was done to neuter Dean and the DNC...count on that.


fly

edit to add..madfloridian has written extensively about this please do check her journals.
it is well worth the read..and i still thank her!!

How they got in this position is important. And maybe local Floridians will be willing to toss their state party leadership for this grand mistake.

and what if the primary is a squeaker -- think there won't be lawsuits? HA! think again!

No one is campaigning there, so Hillary will likely win because it's all about national recognition.

Sorry, I'm dreaming again.

as punishment.

The local parties are playing this leapfrog game. Florida, Michigan and others leaped too far.

dems voted for this state legislators in the dem party voted for this..we can't blame it on anyone else.

i i hold Karen Thurman responsible for that..but damn you to hell if you are a dem and you mention it in fla..you might as well cut your throat..because you will be frog marched out of meetings!!


this was planned by the DLC folks..this was planned by Rahmn!

you can bet your bippy on that..and take it to the bank!

fly

go to the map -- Michigan is ready to go!

At least that's the plan

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071125/COL04/711250573/1081

Or everthing might not be hashed out yet.

"By doing so in violation of national party rules, Michigan Republicans stand to lose half their delegates to the their national convention, and Democrats to lose all their delegates to their convention."

http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/11/21/america/camp.php

In fact, most of the candidates primised not to campaign there. Then Hillary changed her mind (as usual).

in fla media!

fly

I'm kidding of course, but in terms of cui bono why would Camp Hillary cut off a state they're winning by 24 points?

I don't understand the local party's motivation, but at the national level I suspect Florida has been written off for offering a 0% return on investment in presidential campaigns, at least since the 2000 fiasco and the widening gap in 2004. While I see the game theory angle of not wanting to reward an arms race in premature primaries, it does seem like Michigan is treated to a different standard, so I'm guessing this is a way of making an example out of a state that's nearly impossible to win anyway. Whether it backfires nationally remains to be seen, but you have to keep in mind that the convention is already tilted towards blue states:

They're breaking the rules. I'm glad that the DNC is enforcing they're rules. The republicans have the same problem. They're cutting delegates too.

what happened to democracy?

we get all up in arms when people are INDIVIDUALLY kept from the polls. now, a WHOLE STATE? where's the outrage.

I was just pointing out that it isn't exclusive to the Dems.

I guess next election the Florida Democratic Party will think twice before breaking the rules of the National Party.

You get your delegates counted in the General Election. I live in a state that has never had an actual role in choosing the Candidate in the Primary. It is always long over by the time it gets to us. The Florida Democratic Leaders should have been happy with their role. The National Party gave them a warning.

and for YEARS i've worked to get people to the polls and vote on the assumption that "democracy" matters -- that every vote is precious. well, that's just a giant load of horseshit now isn't it?

Once again like the electoral college, you're not voting for a candidate directly. This gets into complicated committee politics.

There is a Democratic Committee with national, state, county, and precinct level representation. The committee creates rules on how nominees will be selected. The potential offices go from sheriffs to presidents. The committee nominates a candidate to represent the party. There are several ways to do this. In a presidential election, delegates are elected to vote for their candidate.

Have you ever thought about what would happen if there weren't enough delegates to appoint a nominee? All those delegates we elect would have to compromise on a candidate. This is the way it used to work, and this can happen again. So lets say Hillary doesn't have a majority going into the convention. All of other candidates can pool their delegates to nominate someone.

There is so much more detail to what I have written, but I don't want to spend an hour writing. There's some more info here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._presidential_nominating_convention#Voting

You can also find out more about it by searching the internets.

makes it OKAY.

okee dokey.

If you don't like the rules, get on the committee and change them (or bitch about it on DU. Whatever works.).

so it is equitable.

The electorate down here in Florida is so goddamned stupid, they shouldn't have a say in anything!

Just look at the state legislature for proof. Each and every one of them were elected by a floridian. And not a mad one either.

And they ALL (except one) voted to move up the primaries, in violation of the rules, with AUTOMATIC SANCTIONS.

What it boils down to, is Bill Nelson (R-Really) and Karen Thurman decided to get into a pissing match with Howard Dean and the DNC and lost. Now our poor little self-importance and superiority are bruised. I was going to run for a delegate slot myself, and thankfully, they saved me a lot of money.

why follow the news? why care?

and the powers of the party run now by the DLC have done a dandy job of shutting up anyone who exposes their plot.

fly

get involved? why should we care? hell, our own party shuts us out.

to throw the damn bums out!..we need new people involved..its the same bullshit recycled!

fly

Jan Schnieder and Dave Lutrin

http://downwithtyranny.blogspot.com/2007/07/what-to-do-when-republican-pols-jump.html

Jan went on the Cobert report and told what was being done to her by the DLC..did you miss it??

seems you did..i didn't..i worked with and for her..

also many others ..did you miss them as well?? like now John Russell...or how about also in 2006 Liz McCallum ..see how the fla dem party with the help of DLC Rahmn Emmanuel ran someone who changed party affiliation right before the deadline to run as a primary candidate against our wonderful dem candidates!!

I also worked with Liz and yes i raised holy hell at DEC meetings and yes we tried to change the people doing this crap..and guess what ..the DLC did all they could to silence us..they helped no one who ran with from the DFA..not where i am at..

see many of us know what is going on and we are trying our damnest to stop it..

we don't just blow smoke..we work our asses off!!..and many of us put our money where our mouths are as well..

there is so much shit..and we get no help from the state dem party..i long for my days voting and working with dems in other states i have lived in ...where there is sanity ...

we not only are dealing with this shit..remember we have also been working diligently to get the voting machines thrown out of the state..and until 2006 election..got zero help from the state dem party..in fact we were told to shut the hell up and go away!

psss..we didn't go away.

fly

This is the same organization that won't discipline it's own members for donating to, endorsing, and supporting repukes.

The head on this fish stinks to high heaven, and the body is already rotten.

i know it feels good to point fingers and put ourselves above the fray -- but, has anyone been stupid enough to go up against the criminals? is anyone challenging their "authority"?

are there any mailings list to join?
any candidates talking about this?
any "Meet-ups"?


or do we just bitch?

And they were smeared and punished.

I got tired of watching the incompetence and backstabbing, so I'm on the outside now. Besides, I'm taking over a pizza joint in Tampa next week. and that should keep me occupied for a while.

with friends like this who needs enemies? why should anyone care or much less WORK to change things when the people who should be SUPPORTING change are content to make pizza and declare sovereignty.

I've been heavily involved for years. And the guy who got thrown out of the convention, I managed his congressional campaign. Along with some other races over the years. I wasn't there for the convention, I was in South Carolina tending to a dying relative. I've driven up there 3 times in the last month, and am heading back tomorrow.

As for making pizza's. In the last year, I've had my income cut by $1,500 per month ($18,000 per year) and lost my health insurance.

So, I guess I'll have to support my wife and 2 dogs somehow.

if there's any organizing to unseat Thurman. guess there's not any, so it's just as well that dyed-in-the-wool activists like yourself are taking a needed break from the process.

now i can sit with my finger up my..asssssssssssssssssssskkk ...

And who here honestly thinks ..Hillary will not seat Fla delegates ?????????

pleaseeeeeeeee..this was planned.

fly

and we have been ignored ..even here at Du..very few have chimed in..its the same people wirting about it all the time..look up madfloridian..she has written extensively about it and many of us floridians have done our damnest to get it exposed.

we have been basically ignored.

fly

it's going to be on everyone's mind as the primaries approach.

i can tell you that people who don't participate at the activist level have NO IDEA what is going on here. "delegates"? whaaaaa?

i wouldn't be surprised if there were riots come election day -- but that's another matter. care to guess how this is going to affect the homestead exemption amendment?

They take for granted that we'll vote for them anyway, because so many DO using the "lesser of two evils" equation. Well, as someone on DU quoted, the lesser of two evils is still evil. NO MORE for me. I'm voting Kucinich in the primary (even though it won't count) and will write him in in the GE. If that makes me a fly in their evil ointment, GOOD.

that's a bunch of crap. democrats have a long history of splitting the party, and that's what they get for excluding us.

But it's something I've been saying for a while, that we're being taken for granted and just shouldn't play their game. Too bad a lot of Dems don't hear, won't listen, or have reason to want a split (can you say Blue Dog? I knew you could).

Which is just another example of why I will never again "hold my nose" and vote for any candidate just so long as they have a 'D' after their name. We disenfranchise ourselves doing that.

this last march..and what did our dlc run dem party leader do..?/ told them to go ahead and vote for it..

it was dem legislative votes that put this over the top..not repigs ..it was dems..and if you for a minute think this wasn't planned ( it was planned by the DLC"s very own Rahmn who fucked our elections and our real dem candidates last nov 2006 !) i have swamp land in fla for you..lovely and cheap...a few alligators..but you get used to them.

fly

Sorry, you crybabies won't get any sympathy for me.

You want your delegates to count, you follow the rules you agreed to like everybody else.

:eyes:

you are very keen on disenfranchisement. that's very curious for a DU'er. guess it's a "democracy" for some. not all.

Because you refuse to understand party politics. The party makes the rules. The people selected by the party "rank and file" make these decisions. The rules were in place and Florida knowingly broke them. No one here wants to disenfranchise voters. They're just following the party rules as they are.

Florida? Dean? The rank and file?

Which includes Congressional Dems.

But thanks for playing.

many of us were screaming about it and got no help..

not from the media and not from other dems..

and real dems in fla..and many of our candidates and DNC members knew last year that Rahmn was in our state fucking with our state..we also yelled loudly and got ignored.

fly

Now you have forced me to show you what I have written. You really are on a kick about this, and you need to read all about how Florida screwed up. It will hurt all of us in 08 because Bill Nelson wanted attention and Karen did not stand up to him.

Enough of this. Florida Democrats now threaten Dean and the DNC with a "voting rights probe".
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1453

The "appropriate legal official" to "investigate" Dean and the DNC...is...Gonzales.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1452

Nelson: "I will lead the delegates to Denver whether or not the DNC plans to let them in."
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1455

Two summaries of the DNC committee ruling about Florida.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1456

Florida sowed the seeds of a propaganda war against the DNC.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1458

Proof. Vindication. Both Florida parties did it for "relevance." From March.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1459

The latest Florida propaganda tactic here about attacking the DNC...local email.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1460

Florida's Geller joked about his amendment: "sarcasm and audible laughter in chamber"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1461

One Florida county is saying there will be further bloodshed. Much argument here today.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1462

Florida Democratic Party website building anger toward the DNC
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1465

Democratic activist sues over loss of Florida delegates
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1466

"Dean was conciliatory and offered DNC help for the state"..hour long phone call
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1467

Gelber admits they did not fight the GOP about the primary.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1468

"Primary bully Florida ought to be ashamed"...four articles catch on to Florida's primary ploy.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1469

Bill Nelson today will file a bill for regional primaries...but first he had to get your attention
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1478

Bill Nelson today: "DNC penalties unacceptable, unacceptable, unacceptable"
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1479

Carl Levin and Terry McAuliffe made a deal about primaries in 2004.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1483

Email from Florida DEC chairs saying not to give to the DNC or candidates.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1481

Pelosi says it is not Florida's fault at all. So if the speaker says it I must be wrong.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1567

"Florida Democrats are all for it"...March 2006. All for the early primary that far ahead.
http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian/1564

And that is only a start.

the milk is spilled. sorry. but this is the situation. i'm sure you have people you are mad at -- and rightly so -- but that's not my concern.

my concern if for democracy as a whole. this throws the whole process into question.

do you have link to a group that is working to out Thurman? do you have link to an activist group that is fighting to bring notice to this? do you have any research on how this will affect the primary in general?

signifying nothing.

where's the great democratic base? where's the opposition to this?

It is going to hurt us in the election next year. Before the Florida Dems pulled this stunt, Democrats were leading here. Now we are not.

Same in Michigan. They got to move up, the state supreme court said ok go for it.

But the candidates took their names off the ballot.

"Me First" is a serious disease.

guess that's not a problem at all.

i'm really disappointed that someone who has so much to say about this can't point to ONE single group in Florida that is working for positive change in this area.

You just want to be mad. You refuse to listen and learn.

Ain't that something we sent to Iraq?

i would have gone to your journal but i got in during night from London and i am just too tired!!

thank you!!

fly