Where the **** are folks getting the money for this nutso shopping frenzy??

So the news reports are that sales are up over 8% from last year. Hordes of merchandise-hungry shoppers are practically trampling each other on their way into the stores. The videos remind me of sharks on a feeding frenzy.

Let's see -- a plague of foreclosures, fuel prices up, food prices up, wages down, charitable giving down.... just where the hell are folks getting the money to stuff their houses with even MORE JUNK??? I don't get it. And what the furk has this to do with "Christmas", anyway? Probably the same people overstuffing their carts with THINGS are the same folks bitching about mall greeters wishing them a "Happy Holiday" rather than a "Merry Christmas".

Has this country gone NUTS?

It would not be surprising to learn that these figures about spending being up are all lies.

Sales are up some 8.3% or so. Can't explain it. This society is suffering from a mass shopping sickness. More and more THINGS, must pile up more and more junk until there's not a remaining nook or cranny in the house big enough to accomodate a gerbil. :crazy:

The more one uses consumerism to feel good, the shorter the 'high' of each new thing. Soon, the new stuff hardly gets you a buzz at all.

Been there, done that. So glad I'm out! I was very fortunate that it didn't destroy me financially, although it did leave me with quite a credit card bill. What got me out was when my husband offered for me to take a year off from work. "But the spending has to stop," he said. Can you believe I actually had to think it over?????? :crazy: But in the end, I took the time off & it was such a blessing. It really put life in perspective for me.

In the opening scene of "Gone With the Wind" there was a sun dial inscribed with this: Time is the essence of our lives. Or another good one: He who dies with the most toys, still dies. ;)

Too many have forgotten what life is really about. If they would only think back to the times that were most gratifying to them, I'll bet they would see that those times revolved around people, not things. For those where that isn't the case, I feel very sorry for them.

I suppose there are some that will keep up the pretences, no matter what.

Tell me people aren't actually using credit cards to do this. :wtf:

it always is credit card driven

Typical pre-crash behavior.

Kind of like the mandatory drunk before treatment...

with every passing year.. Prior to WWII, most people bought what they NEEDED, they paid quite a bit for it, they repaired it when it broke, they cleaned it, they took care of their stuff..

Madison Avenue ad-men saw a way to turn "need" into "want & deserve", and we've never been the same since:(

just try and fix a plastic whatchamagadget when it breaks.

are still making their credit card payments. ~gasp!

Sorry, I didn't bookmark it. I found it almost unbelievable, but I guess if you are that close to losing your home, keeping your credit cards current is more important. But what will they do when the credit spigot runs dry?

I am sooooooooooo glad we didn't upgrade to a bigger, more expensive house a few years back. It has provided us with options we would not have had otherwise.

"I am sooooooooooo glad we didn't upgrade to a bigger, more expensive house a few years back. It has provided us with options we would not have had otherwise."

I live in a small house that needs some cosmetic work. And it's not exactly au courrant in terms of what is considered entertaining functionality, and it's very light on storage, esp in the kitchen/pantry area. So a major remodel at some point would be a great idea.

BUT. It's paid for. I don't worry about losing my shirt, eventhough I'm not working right now. It's safe and dry. It's a HOME. :loveya:

"...it's very light on storage, esp in the kitchen/pantry area."

I turned my front closest into a pantry! We hardly ever have guests & my kitchen is so small with so little cupboard space that it seemed a better use of the closet. I love my tiny, paid off house!

:hi:

Lots of people overspend, especially this time of year.

I'm glad I'm on a debit card and I decide how much I'm going to spend on the holidays TOTAL, then I make sure I stick to that. Makes things a lot easier and I don't have financial hang over for six months after.

It is nuts.

Mastercard
Visa
Discover

December is the "worst" month for us with personal property taxes due and auto insurance. My husband was out of work for 18 months, went back to work in July; however, we still have not caught up. Are we destitute? No, we aren't. We lived on our savings for 18 months. However, we don't have the spare cash the people in the stores seem to have. I wish someone would tell me the secret, please. Anyone?

A lot of people don't wait until they have "spare cash" to go shopping. They live beyond their means all the time. It's no way to live, but they do it.

Let's see, which do I prefer:

Sleepless nights worrying about finances and a house full of junk OR
Not having to worry about finances and less junk to have to store, cart around, and dust.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

We do not have and haven't had any credit card debt for years. We may have sleepless nights sometimes, but it is not because we ran up a lot of credit card bills that we now cannot pay. :)

That "attraction principle" could be causing some to go totally off the deep end, ya know?

Good lord, every available space in her house is filled with trinkets -- counters, walls, tables, you name it & there is stuff there. We live in Colorado. The minute after you dust, there is already new dust accumulating.

A couple of years ago my mother visited me & commented, "You have the most clutter free home I've ever seen." At first I thought she was complimenting me, but her expression basically said "How weird are you?" Many people judge how well someone is doing financially by how much stuff they have. Got a lot? You're doing fine. Not got much? You're struggling. Go figure. :eyes:

then you have it a LOT better than most - you are very SMART to have been able to save that much and have it in the event of an emergency

The country has a NEGATIVE savings rate which means that it spends MORE than it makes - hence living on credit - stupid stupid thing to do

However, we basically depleted our savings and are now starting over (in our 60s). So, while we had it better than most in a situation where there are no jobs, it's not very good looking at retirement down the road. I'm not sure that my husband will now be able to ever retire. We have our house on the market, for a variety of reasons (moving closer to his job is the main one). Perhaps there is hope for his retirement if the house sells.

This nation's priorities are so backwards. Instead of taking care of all our people, we shovel 99% of the wealth into the paws of a few greedy assholes, while the rest of us live with little or no safety net.

The money we've squandered killing people across the globe would have been better spent assuring our own people with health care and retirement.

...that as a whole the population would do better to save more and spend less, bear in mind the savings rate numbers ignore pre-tax savings in 401(k)accounts which form the backbone of retirement saving for most of the middle class. It's a rather outdated model that ignores THE core long term savings vehicle for tens of millions. Also worth noting is that it is not a good....bad continuum. Japan's very large savings rate helped deepen and prolong their recession.

in terms of those two big bills. Property taxes are usually due in mid-November, and our auto insurance bill was just mailed today.

I won't start shopping until mid-December and then people are getting puzzles and books. I've already bought the kids their "big" gifts, which seem to get smaller and smaller the older they get. I've been saving a bit here and there all year to be able to buy them those items.

I suppose the answer to your question is that they have large credit card debt. I prefer to live within my means.

Debtors living in the debtor nation.

they have received "paybacks" from the church to which they have donated for 20 years

they are getting rid their dollar reserves (because everyone is doing it)

Second question:
No, this country has not gone nuts, it´s been this way for a long time.

See! I just saved $30 on this chrome-plated automatic Super tomato crusher with hair dryer attachments that's regularly $59.95!

it though if my money sense returns. I was planning on a new tv anyhow and shopped for 2 months. Went out day after black friday, rang-through the one I scouted, then thought I would asked what I missed by not shopping Friday. Three young male salesman informed me they still had a 42" in sock to sell. So returned my just purchased 32"($628) and for $150(&798) more I bought it. Everyone in my house is thrilled, and I love it too.

I feel guilt for being such a consumer, but we had been using a 25" with broken knobs and it was analog. It is energy star efficient and we are all NFL fans.

Flame me,but we indulged and will pay if it's a mistake.I did charge it on a 0% card. I have $300 to apply this month and can pay it off in Jan.'08.

And, where do you have it stashed?

The point being that people don't "save" money by spending it.

Like you, when I choose to purchase something major, I check out the "sales", look for the no/low interest rates, usually pay cash, or will pay it off before paying interest.

But, I never delude myself into thinking that I "saved" any money. I spent it.

As a former employee assistance counselor, I saw more than a few people go bankrupt "saving" money by spending it.

I don't understand why people fall for such nonsense - I constantly hear people going on about how much they saved when in truth they fell for marketing ploys and SPENT money on crap they never would have bought if it wasn't such a "bargain". SHEEP!!!!!!!!!!

Don't feel guilty "for being such a consumer"! You needed a new TV, you love the one you chose, you've got a plan to pay it off. I usually find that spending a little extra to get something that truly satisfies me is better than buying something just because it's a good deal. (Having been raised to buy only bargains, it took me years to unlearn that habit, and it cost a lot of money that I "saved" by wasting it on things that didn't really suit my needs or bring me any pleasure. If only I'd taken William Morris' dictum, "Have nothing in your house that you do not know to be useful, or believe to be beautiful," to heart earlier in my life... I wouldn't have acquired nearly as much crap.)

Buying stuff isn't stupid--buying stuff you don't need, can't pay for, or don't particularly want is misguided.

Enjoy watching the games with your family!

rate that will never go up, because hey they care about you! And why wouldn't they? YOU OWE THEM MONEY! :evilgrin:

of the people are very "moral" and are doing what Mr. Higher Up has instructed them to do:

Don´t ask any questions, follow my command, Thou shalt go shopping!

for one with better interest rates! The lazy bastards used a RECORDING with voicemail to try to sell me, too--like THAT's the way to do it!

After I pressed the "DO NOT CALL ME AGAIN" number, I noted that it's been just under a month since I renewed my 'Do Not Call' list membership.

just lay the phone on the table and wait until the machine hangs up

or

push the * button a dozen times, which messes up the system,

and

maybe, they will kick your number out of the system.

I find the whole thing so offensive that the minute I hear the recorded message, I hang up.

What are you, some kind of dumbass?

:P

profit margins dictated that overall,
stores did not make as much this year.
Showed a drop from last year. Read todays
Stock Market report by Ozmandyius.

edit to add link: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x3077490#3077515

Holiday sales fail to get shoppers to splurge
NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com ) -- Although deep discounts brought out much bigger crowds of holiday bargain hunters, a major retail trade group said Sunday that shoppers actually spent less money this year over the crucial Thanksgiving weekend.

The National Retail Foundation's (NRF's) 2007 Black Friday Weekend Survey said more than 147 million shoppers hit the stores over the Black Friday weekend, up 4.8 percent from last year.

However, the trade group said consumers, on average, spent an estimated $347.44 in total on Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday, down 3.5 percent from the previous year.

Then again, I think the final tally for our store credit cards that day was somewhere near sixty. That's three times the best normal day on average.

Interest rates for our credit card stands at 24% out of the gate.

This tells me plenty, and it ain't pretty.

One is that foreclosures are affecting enough people to change aggregate spending habits, and another that people are using credit cards only to overextend.

Both are certainly true for subsets of the population, but not for other subsets. I use a credit card fro almost every purchase I can - from groceries to entertainment to gas and of course discretionary shopping. Why not when I can get a percentage of what I spend back, and keep my money in an interest bearing checking account for longer than I otherwise would, then pay the full balance off with two days to spare? Now I certainly wasn't part of the frenzy myself - I loathe crowds and shop online whenever possible for lower prices and added convenience. But it's not about me personally - there are millions of people, hundreds of millions even, who are perfectly capable of affording a cut price laptop or appliance and actual derive enjoyment from doing so, all without becoming bankrupt or adding another year to their debt load..

There seems to be a lot of projection in threads like this that assume people are not capable of deciding to spend their money in a way that makes sense to them, and that any purchase beyond subsistence is morally suspect. Neither is of course true. Sure a minority of people are irresponsible debt-loaded shopaholics, just like a minority of people are foreclosed or unemployed. The majority however have discretionary income (certainly in varying levels - but not all those crowds were spending thousands), and are perfectly rational enough to decide whether they prefer to spend that on a LCD TV or a solar powered water recycling system, or perhaps both.

:thumbsup:

I have set aside money specifically what I'd be spending for this holiday season. :shrug: And I'm not paying anything on credit cards, since I don't have any.

It's worth it to me to spend a little money on my family once a year.

I make a good living, have money in the bank and would like to buy some nice things for my partner who has been wonderful and kind and generous to me. Would that be ok? Shall I run my purchases by you to see if they meet with your approval. Wouldn't want to buy anything you considered 'junk'.

Oh, and the reason sales are up 8% is because retailers have slashed prices all over the place. Profits are going to be way down.

I mean we should all spend absolutely nothing - that'll keep people employed and prevent that depression we so like to predict!

:evilgrin:

I think there will be three big days for buying, the day after thanksgiving and the 1st. and 15th. of December other than those three days sales will be flat.

was at the mall Friday night trying to replace it. The place was nearly empty. If there was any shopping frenzy around here, it wasn't happening at the mall.

A fake example -

last year, 10 shoppers spent $30 each = $300
this year, 15 shoppers spent $25 each = $375

I have had the same job for more than 30 years. Never got over my head in dept. Work hard and have plenty of toys. Going to enjoy Christmas, instead of predicting doom and gloom. Makes life much more fun!!!!

to be called a consumerist fool supporting your corporatist masters like a good lap dog. There is a strong undercurrent of poverty and frugality being equated to purity and morality around here.

Is that what you call someone who works hard. saves money and enjoys life??? And I guess the "corporation" I work for as you say is a small one. Only 5 employees!!!

Every Black Friday looks like a feeding frenzy.

I guess even the savings-challenged have put aside a few hundred dollars for Black Friday again.

as one poster mentioned above, we are most likely seeing a more people less cash each deal here. Because discounts were unusually good, it may also cannibalize later holiday period shopping too. I doubt the whole season will be up 8.3%. Don't get me worong I think it will be up, but not by as much as this early indicator.

At least for me, but when a high-end mouse is sold at 50% off (which is nearly at if not below store's cost), I'm buying. It's a good mouse, ergonomically speaking.

I only needed a hard drive, and as that was 50% off as well and also at or below cost, it's safe to say those big xmas deals are strapping stores as well. To some extent.

They're tools for my job, which is increasingly focused on ad design and writing. Maybe more the former as the latter isn't wild or sleazy enough for mainstream media to want. Still, there's always hope...

It wouldn't surprise me a bit that this last weekend was a big one. Lots of outrageous sales, even free stuff, all of which becomes that much more critical to a consumer facing these tough economic times. I figure a lot of people decided to gut it out and battle the crowds so that in the long run they would have a cheaper Christmas.

The real numbers won't come in until after Christmas, and while this past weekend may have come in look rosy and bright, the rest of the shopping season could very well be a flop. A telling sign will be the week-before-Christmas-sales. If those are deeply discounted, then that means that product isn't moving well at all and retailers are desperate to get rid of it at almost any price.

yes, people are totally unfazed what's happening around them and what's happening in the world, *ie is probably laughing at how shallow we are.

I'm betting people just want to get the buying out of the way this year.

What with the economy & the dollar taking a nose dive, all the foreclosures and with all signs pointing toward fascism and the North American Union...I am freaked out to say the least.

Would love to save the money to pay off bills or do some house repairs or save for the scary times ahead but....

We can't disappoint the kid and so on we go with it, though I will grit my teeth and keep my fingers crossed the entire month of December and beyond. :yoiks:

And, go bust.

I have no problem with gift giving, but some people just freaking lose their minds at Christmas.

do you really think they'd release any bad news about shopping? The corporate-owned media is all about getting people to SHOP, SHOP, SHOP

There is a shopping frenzy every year at this time.

;)

Except this year's deals don't seem like such a deal (Except for that schweet $98 HD-DVD player...)

They already drop the price of the A3???

Somehow they have figured gas and food into the percentages to make retail sales look better.
Bushco is notorious for these types of bait and switch figures to make things look better than they are.

Credit cards, sub prime mortgages, and other debt instruments give the masses the illusion of prosperity. As long as people can buy whatever they want whenever they want, they believe that they are well off. Consequently, when well-meaning politicians push for social saftey net issues like healthcare, they are dismissed out of hand.

...no cash (or in this case debit card) no carry. No debt, life is sweet.

Like there's no tomorrow!

:shrug:

convince themselves that it's time to borrow, borrow, borrow

I foresee terrible troubles

Never ever ever take this crap at face value.

very scary commercials all over the tube from Sam's Club et al, about having that Merry Christmas at any and all cost even if you'll be losing your house to a sub-prime scheme just to make it happen...of course the 'save your ass' ReFi stuff will come in time for spring flowers but for now?

its a full speed ahead/four wheel slide off the edge of a cliff if you haven't been taken over yet

can afford it or not, or even how individual consumers view consumption. Some can, most can't. But anything to keep the party going. Our collective madness.

In the larger scheme of things, the party is coming to an end, in a variety of different ways. Economically, environmentally, probably socially. These people by and large don't get it yet. A second gilded age. A thin sheen of normalcy over a society about to burst.