There have now been two news reports about the 'Christmas Tree'

in local cities. People proudly proclaiming that they WILL NOT call their local tree anything other than a 'Christmas' tree. One man said that since the White House and Rockefeller Center call their trees 'Christmas' trees their town will do it to. "No Holiday Trees in my town"

Now I'm a Catholic Christian and have for years put up a Christmas Tree at my house so it doesn't bother me to see a 'Christmas' tree in town or to call it one. But I feel like folks this year are shoving it down the throats of others who aren't Christian or who would prefer to be more welcoming to other cultures.

Being a jackass about a tradition seems to take the feeling of Christmas out of Christmas. :shrug:

Thoughts?

I'm sure he wouldn't care what you call a pagan yule symbol.

And that goes for Easter and eggs and rabbits, too.

I am very ambivalent about celebrating Christmas and Easter, though I am a Christian.

I'm pretty much of the What Would Jesus Do school or Whom would Jesus Bomb and Torture.

Everyone who professes to be a Christian would do well to revisit the basic tenets of their faith which is

to love God
to love one another

Period.

Any meaning has been further lost by cultural intolerance.

And I have absolutely no problem with people saying Happy Holidays in public rather than Merry Christmas/Happy Hanukkah/Ramadan/Kwanza/whatever.

But... the thing IS a Christmas Tree. No other religions use it for any other purpose. If you are going to put the thing up, why is calling it a Christmas Tree so problematic? Are people so sensitive that hearing CHRISTMAS is so emotionally challenging?

It's the attitude that is coming with it this year that I don't appreciate.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/xmas_tree.htm

bullet Pagan traditions: Many Pagan cultures used to cut boughs of evergreen trees in December, move them into the home or temple, and decorate them. 7 Modern-day Pagans still do. This was to recognize the winter solstice -- the time of the year that had the shortest daylight hours, and longest night of the year. This occurs annually sometime between DEC-20 to 23. They noticed that the days were gradually getting shorter; many feared that the sun would eventually disappear forever, and everyone would freeze. But, even though deciduous trees, bushes, and crops died or hibernated for the winter, the evergreen trees remained green. They seemed to have magical powers that enabled them to withstand the rigors of winter.
bullet Not having evergreen trees, the ancient Egyptians considered the palm tree to symbolize resurrection. They decorated their homes with its branches during the winter solstice. 3
bullet "The first decorating of an evergreen tree began with the heathen Greeks and their worship of their god Adonia, who allegedly was brought back to life by the serpent Aessulapius after having been slain." 5
bullet The ancient Pagan Romans decorated their "trees with bits of metal and replicas of their god, Bacchus . They also placed 12 candles on the tree in honor of their sun god" 2 Their mid-winter festival of Saturnalia started on DEC-17 and often lasted until a few days after the Solstice.

Christians may be among the last to traditionally observe it.

call it a pagan tree or whatever else. I don't really give a crap what it's called. It doesn't offend me when it's called a christmas tree or a yule log or whatever else anyone may call the damn thing. It's a freaking tree.

and thank the others for edifying you so that you no longer labor under the misconception.

but, my thoughts on the subject haven't changed all that much. I don't care what anybody calls the tree. But, the majority of Americans who have one DO currently call it a Christmas tree. The vast majority.

I honestly don't see what the big deal is whether it is referred to as a Christmas Tree or a Holiday Tree. I don't think that I was laboring under anything, either. But thanks for your edification.

That's just, flat-out, wrong. Like every single tenet, symbol, rule, and story, of the so-called Christian religion, it was stolen from somebody else.

that part I will take back, then. Shortsighted comment. (I was thinking about Judaism and Islam and how they wouldn't want to lay claim to the tree with a HOLIDAY tree moniker more than I was thinking about Pagan religions and that they may want to embrace a HOLIDAY tree.)

Christmas, St. Nick, decorations etc were forbidden til the very late 1800's.

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=&q=Yule+tree&btnG=Google+Search
It appears the world is larger and older than you were taught

some sort of religious symbolism. It wasn't always pagan.

Christianity co-opted the tradition, just like they did with the date in late December, and the idea of giving gifts then.

Which makes it kind of silly that they get bent out of shape that people don't toe the line on what it's called.

it is NOW known and commonly referred to as a Christmas Tree.

Big deal.

:eyes:

I'm Jewish. We don't have a Hanukkah tree. And I know there's no December Muslim or Buddhist or Hindu holiday that is marked with a tree (while I know the tree has Pagan origins, I don't know about specific modern traditions; perhaps someone can shed some light).

Plainly put...calling a Christmas tree a Holiday Tree devalues NON-Christmas holidays as well.

(That is, if it matters at all, which I don't think it really does--but here's a counter-argument.)

I don't have a problem with calling a Christmas Tree, I have a problem with people being jerks about what they call it.

upon?

My brother insisted to my mother that "Lowe's" would only call them holiday trees (he listed to AM hate radio), then my mother pulled out a Lowe's circular with the words "Christmas Trees" emblazoned on the front page.

It's just that I celebrate Solstice, you know - and just because I didn't take over the government in this country, I don't think my holiday has to be stamped out by the LOUD ONES

Like I said, I'm not well informed in this area.

I don't think that anybody is stomping on your holiday, just as I think it's ridiculous for anyone to complain that saying HAPPY freaking HOLIDAYS is stomping on Christmas. Just celebrate already. I'm so sick of complaining about this crap.

Nobody is being persecuted or prohibited from celebrating what it is that they celebrate.

Almost all of the traditions that surround Christmas are from other religions, not Christian.

Starting with the evergreen tree which is decorated. And the colorful lights.

However, I don't care if you want to call it a "Christmas tree".

This whole "war on Christmas" crap is a canard. A distraction which is deliberately false and meant to divide us.

All week he's been calling it The G.E. Commerce Tree.

And that's exactly what they all are. Commerce trees. They have nothing to do with Christmas.

.

The tradition of decorating trees goes back beyond the claimed birth of Jesus, they certainly weren't "Christmas Trees" then.

That said, I don't care what people call it, as long as they don't attack other people for it. Personally, I use "christmas tree", but I have no problems with calling it a "holiday tree" or a "yule tree", or even a "festivus pole".

:o

Now you have me listening to "O Tannenbaum" from Mr. Hankey's Christmas Classics (the Southpark seasonal holiday album)

:yourock:

what a tempest in a teapot

:banghead:

A pagan celebration of solstice - I believe bringing it indoors re-started during Victorian times in England. Not bible connected - but thanks for sharing MY holiday - I think it's lovely too!

It has nothing to do with hating on Xtianity, but on the commercialization of the thing. The real reason for the season? Money.

OK...I digress from the OP...my thoughts on the tree thing:

Call the tree anything you want to. I wouldn't call a menorah a holiday candle.

I have learned to dislike them due to their offensiveness. It is not proper to hate those who simply have different beliefs, but right wingers are in-your-face offensive and I have no difficulty in despising their tactics.

:thumbsup:

It's not that people want to call it a Christmas Tree, it's that they want to be jerks about it. As if it's no fun to be a Christian unless you're pissing somebody off about it.

However, I don't care what they are called.

I haven't seen one substantiated incident of anyone insisting they be called "holiday trees" anyway.

Again, it's a wide, old world - everything you guys think you discovered - you adopted from others. Deal with it.

I discovered that back years ago and was astonished. Took my head right out of the sand.

Love the celebrations, though!

What I can't understand is the combination of the belief that the world begins and ends with them with the absurd persecution complex - in spite of their majority status.
Almost like the Republicans in the House whining they never get a word edgewise.

:shrug:

I said it had ancient roots and the symbolism has evolved.

It isn't 'just' a pagan thing.

Using tree branches and small trees may have started in Pagan times but it has evolved.

You deal with it.

Sorry, dear, some dinosaurs live still - and it's your superiority claim that grates - especially on a thread about them poor Christians feeling oppressed by the evil liberals - or whomever they imagine force them to say "Holiday Tree".
Let's agree that there are many beliefs in the world - some older, some newer - and leave it at that.
May I add that I find your use of the concept of evolution very rich in irony to say the least.

You are off the deep end there, robbedvoter.

Christmas Tree's are beautiful and I love them!!

You can go ahead and hate them, call them what you want, whatever.

Maybe it's your Druid Tree? That's fine!

I call it a Christmas tree. That's fine too.

I am a liberal, 'DEAR'! :rofl:

But you, on the other hand .....

of hatred - just as I sensed in your first "but it's ours, all ours" post.
It's my Yule Tree and your present derision bothers me much less than your past burnings at the stake.

be assuming anything about anyone. You pretty much included me with the
'christian', fanatical, evangelical, RW asshats and I take great offense to that!

that it's your way or the highway. And I insist that the world is a bit older and wider than your perspective.

trees were decorated by the Romans for Saturnalia, which was celebrated December 17 - 23rd. This was WELL before the Christians decided to co-op Dec. 25th for Christmas.

CHRISTMAS TREE TRADITION HAS ANCIENT ORIGINS

http://www.christmas-tree.com/where.html

snip-->

The Christmas tree has gone through a long process of development rich in many legends, says David Robson, Extension Educator, Horticulture, with the Springfield Extension Center.

Some historians trace the lighted Christmas tree to Martin Luther. He attached lighted candles to a small evergreen tree, trying to simulate the reflections of the starlit heaven -- the heaven that looked down over Bethlehem on the first Christmas Eve.

Until about 1700, the use of Christmas trees appears to have been confined to the Rhine River District. From 1700 on, when lights were accepted as part of the decorations, the Christmas tree was well on its way to becoming a tradition in Germany. Then the tradition crossed the Atlantic with the Hessian soldiers.

Some people trace the origin of the Christmas tree to an earlier period. Even before the Christian era, trees and boughs were used for ceremonials. Egyptians, in celebrating the winter solstice -- the shortest day of the year -- brought green date palms into their homes as a symbol of "life triumphant over death". When the Romans observed the feast of saturn, part of the ceremony was the raising of an evergreen bough. The early Scandinavians were said to have paid homage to the fir tree.

To the Druids, sprigs of evergreen holly in the house meant eternal life; while to the Norsemen, they symbolized the revival of the sun god Balder. To those inclined toward superstition, branches of evergreens placed over the door kept out witches, ghosts, evil spirits and the like.

This use does not mean that our Christmas tree custom evolved solely from paganism, any more than did some of the present-day use of sighed in various religious rituals.

Trees and branches can be made purposeful as well as symbolic. The Christmas tree is a symbol of a living Christmas spirit and brings into our lives a pleasant aroma of the forest. The fact that balsam fir twigs, more than any other evergreen twigs, resemble crosses may have had much to do with the early popularity of balsam fir used as Christmas trees.

-------------

It's just silly to insist on the words and meanings being strictly attributed to Christianity and Christmas, since in fact, that is not where the origins lay.

it is commonly referred to AS a Christmas Tree.

I don't care what you want to call it.

I love decorating and looking at Christmas tree's every year.

I have no issue with it being called a Christmas tree. That's what it is.

You can call it anything you want! ;)

Happy Holidays!!!! :hi:

I don't care what you choose to call it but it is commonly referred to as a Christmas tree today.

so your claim of supremacy is as ridiculous as the RW-ers claim of being persecuted.

is ridiculous! :P My post stated the many names and terms throughout history
of the commonly referred to Christmas tree of today. I call it a Christmas tree.

YMMV

Merry Christmas, robbedvoter!!!

. .

immortal lyrics .
here's Mr Garrison doing to all heathens what you've been trying to do to me:

Merry Fucking Christmas

Merry Fucking Christmas by Mr. Garrison

Mr. Garrison: I heard there is no Christmas
In the silly Middle East
No trees, no snow, no Santa Claus
They have different religious beliefs

They believe in Muhammad
And not in our holiday
And so every December
I go to the Middle East and say…

“Hey there Mr. Muslim
Merry fucking Christmas
Put down that book the Koran
And hear some holiday wishes.

In case you haven’t noticed
It’s Jesus’s birthday.
So get off your heathen Muslim ass
and fucking celebrate.

There is no holiday season in India I’ve heard
They don’t hang up their stockings
And that is just absurd!

They’ve never read a Christmas story.
They don’t know what Rudolph is about
And that is why in December
I’ll go to India and shout…

Hey there Mr. Hinduist
Merry fucking Christmas
Drink eggnog and eat some beef
And pass it to the missus.

In case you haven’t noticed
It’s Jesus’s birthday
So get off your heathen Hindu ass
and fucking celebrate!

Now I heard that in Japan
Everyone just lives in sin
They pray to several gods
And put needles in their skin.

On December 25th
All they do is eat a cake
And that is why I go to Japan
And walk around and say…

Hey there Mr. Shintoist
Merry fucking Christmas
God is going to kick your ass
You infidelic pagan scum.

In case you haven’t noticed
There’s festive things to do
So lets all rejoice for Jesus
And Merry fucking Christmas to you.

On Christmas day I travel `round the world and say,
Taoists, Krishnas, Buddhists, and all you atheists too,
Merry Fucking Christmas, To You!

(Clapping)

Thank you Mr. hat
video here
http://superducky.com/view.cfm/media/700

Enjoy!

It was that the people in the news casts were being jerks about it.

showing the news people are silly for even bringing it up in the first place. As you were demonstrating that too, I think.

As a pagan, I think it's great.

Blessed Yule, ya'll.

:)

Blessed Yule!

In my house, we celebrate Diwali and Christmas and even a bit of Ramadan for the in-laws. I enjoy 'em all.

Back atcha--and to everyone else!

I think they are a good thing.

The more the better!

It isn't enough that THEY attach Christian meaning to rituals that existed for thousands of years before Christ was born, but they have to insist that everyone else does, too. Otherwise they wouldn't be Christians, whose stock in trade is whining about being persecuted while they try and shove their beliefs down the rest of the world's throat.

(My apologies to any non-whako Christians out there.)

:thumbsup:

peace, health, prosperity, and love.

Peace, Health, Prosperity, and Love to All. No Exceptions!

:hi:

:nopity:

it must suck to live in a culture that is so accepting and tolerant that your mandate to suffer goes unsatisfied. seriously, these clowns NEED to be persecuted, that's what it's all about!
since nobody's persecuting them, they will invent instances of persecution, such as those mean old "secular humanists" and "godless atheists" not calling their money-wasting crap-infested stressed-out hellapalooza celebration of consumption "christmas."

whatever. they want to be persecuted, I'll be glad to oblige ... I have made it a POINT never to utter the word "xmas" to anybody in any way, shape, or form. ooooh, the poor dears, they dissolve into tears at the mere mention of "holiday." how horrible for them :eyes:

We can thank our pagan ancestors for giving us the tree, but also holly, ivy, mistletoe, and many other traditional decorations. There is no Christ in Christmas at our house, but it's a wonderful holiday and a chance to slow down from the hectic pace we live. I call it a Christmas tree, but I celebrate it as a Yule tree, in that tradition.

This year a Vermont tree is going to be the Capitol tree, a 55' balsam fir. Wednesday it gets lit by Nancy Pelosi. And LED lights!




http://whiskersink.blogspot.com/2007/11/bringing-old-fashioned-holiday-to.html

Don't suggest that it doesn't cost the city or state or other govt agency any money.

Even if the tree is donated it still costs the govt money. They require lights. They require electricity. They require govt employees on govt time to install.

about where to put the Christmas tree.

"Shove it," a busy Santa snaps. And that's how we came to have angels on top of our Christmas trees. :evilgrin:

Anyway, I have the same response to these loons that Santa had for the angel.

Or is this really an issue somewhere?

nt

Go around wishing everyone "Happy Holidays" and see long it takes to get verbally mug.

All over the nation, BushChristianity is taking over, and when it reaches a critical mass, well, let's just say what happened before again and again will likely happen again and again.

it's all the freakin' nativity scenes.

Keep Christ out of Christmas!

Sid

Keep Christ out of Christmas?!? :crazy:

Uh... it's his B-Day according to those that believe.

Forcing nativity scenes down people's throats on public land shouldn't be
happening but I don't have a problem with it, if it's in front of a church.

Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays! Happy Holidays!

Merry fucking Christmas. Jesus, who the hell cares what it's called? :eyes:

but I have several family members who are both Democrats and who believe there's a "war on Christmas." They are Union people, and they always vote democratic, but they are also very Christian. Personally I think this notion is ludicrous, but I try not to discuss it with them, because neither side will change its mind. I'm a Unitarian with Southern Baptist family, so talking about religion at all is a bad idea. Still, every time I see someone call the "war on Christmas" a Republican thing, I can only think "I wish!"