Airline Passenger "BILL OF RIGHTS" to be Introduced by Senator Boxer!

Airline Gaffes Fuel Passenger Bill of Rights
Congress Debates Air Travelers' Rights After Incidents of Passengers Left on Grounded Planes for Hours
By MATTHEW JAFFE

Feb. 16, 2007 — - Even in the best of times, air travel can cause plenty of aggravation and criticism. In the worst of times, it can be so bad that Congress has to get involved.

The next time you're upset about your flight taking off a half hour late, imagine waiting 10 hours; that was the fate for some JetBlue passengers on Wednesday at Kennedy Airport in New York City.

With harsh winter weather battering the Northeast, airlines have struggled to cope with the elements and get travelers to their destinations, but even the airlines admit that situations such as Wednesday's JetBlue debacle are simply unacceptable.

JetBlue spokeswoman Alison Eshelman, after a day when 10 flights were stuck on the ground for more than three hours, apologized for the delays.

"The bottom line is that it was unacceptable to have left there that long. We were operating under the assumption that we could be able to get them to their destinations and get them to their vacations but unfortunately that never happened. We should have done better."

-SNIP-

A day after the JetBlue incident, Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., announced plans to introduce legislation for a passenger bill of rights to ensure that air travelers are not unnecessarily held on planes or deprived access to basic food, water, and hygiene.

"I've been stuck on the tarmac many times in my travel back and forth to California. Sometimes with the weather and traffic, it's unavoidable. But to keep passengers -- which usually include infants and the elderly -- on a plane for eleven hours in the worst of conditions is absurd," said Boxer. "If a plane is stuck on the tarmac or at the gate for hours, a passenger should have the right to deplane. No one should be held hostage on an aircraft when clearly they can find a way to get people off safely."

Boxer's bill of rights would require air carriers to ensure passengers access to necessary services, such as food, water, and adequate restroom facilities. It would also guarantee passengers the right to safely deplane if the aircraft has been on the ground over three hours past its scheduled departure time.

Rep. Jim Oberstar, D-Minn., chair of the House Transportation Committee, reprimanded the airlines for their poor customer service: "Don't have passengers sitting for six to eight to 10 hours on board an aircraft. That is cruel and inhumane treatment."

William Maloney, executive vice president and chief operating officer of the American Society of Travel Agents, applauds their efforts.

"Unfortunately, there is little to no recourse for air transportation. The federal authorities have assumed all consumer protection rights for themselves and they have yet to pass any federal consumer protection standards for air passengers," Maloney said. "You can't sue them in a small claims court. You have no rights that you would if you bought a dishwasher or a car or something else."

more at.....
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/print?id=2882974

Rotting away on the O'Hare tarmac. Friggin' airplane can't take off because of bad weather. Not just any bad weather -- funnel clouds had been spotted in the area with a high likelihood of a tornado.

"A tornado? Are you shitting me? We're sitting on the ground waiting for a tornado in the world's biggest winged trailer park? Sonofabitch! Have you people lost your minds? Get me the hell off this plane."

But, oh hell no. Three hours on the ground -- from 9 pm to midnight. Then 90 minutes to KC, followed by a scintiallating 2.5 hour drive on I-70 ending just before dawn.

We sat for a couple of hours in a cabin with no AC while they sent x-rays to Texas before finally telling us our flight was cancelled. Got to Maui almost day late. The airline felt no particular remorse and saw no need to compensate us.

when I was stuck on a tarmac, held hostage in Toronto?

The airlines are out of control with this shit.

Edit: I suppose it would be too much to ask that they not be allowed to use the phony turbulence/"fasten seat belt sign" routine to enforce crowd (and bladder) control for several hour stretches on crowded flights?

It is totally absurd that people are basically held hostage on an airplane like that. I was once stuck on a grounded plane for 90 minutes, and THAT nearly drove me crazy. I can't imagine being stuck for 11 hours!

PASS THIS BILL!!!

And yes, I think it's high time airlines began to treat passengers with respect. Especially after what happened on 9/11. Don't antagonize the citizens who help keep you in business.

And Publicans: Let's have a straight up or down vote on this, huh?

:shrug:

I hope folks read this.

That's a long time, and if an airline can't make a judgment call in that time frame, then maybe they ought to consider a new line of work.

Longest I was ever "held hostage" was 2-and-a-half hours, United in Chicago. The problem? Storm cells somewhere between the sunny skies that graced O'Hare that afternoon... and the sunny skies above our destination.

Me: Huh? Folks, it's an airplane. Can't we fly above or around the bad weather? :shrug:

(Answer: Maybe, if we'd put more fuel in the plane, beyond the bare minimum to required to fly there in a straight line. :yoiks: )

Never did fly that day. Nor that evening. Eventually, raced to the rental car counter and ended up driving. Wishing I'd gotten behind the wheel oh, say, two-and-a-half hours sooner than I did. And with the luggage that I'd checked. :grr:

Like, a freaking criminal offense? Hello?

That must be included in this legislation.

and have no comprehension of the 20,000 processes that go into a single flight.

DU has zero sympathy for the 350,000 airline employees in the United States and neither does Congress.

made up mostly of people who have reached elite levels on one or more airlines.

Basically, the passengers are saying, "Yeah, it's about time! There are alternatives to leaving passengers on a stationary plane for 11 hours. They can bring out the airstairs and some buses. They can at least run some food and water out to the stranded passengers and pump out the toilets."

And the airline employees are saying, "You don't understand. You don't understand. You don't understand."

And the passengers are saying, "Yes, we do."

Thanks to you!

I DO work for an airline; and you're right: the general public has no concept of how many things have to go right, and how many people have to be involved, in order for a single flight to take off, even under the best of circumstances. I agree that nobody should be stuck on an airplane for hours and hours -- but the crew doesn't want to be there, and the airline doesn't want them to be there, any more than the passengers do.

For a passengers' bill of rights to work, it also has to apply to the air traffic controllers and the people who run the airport, since the airlines themselves have very little control over what happens on the ground, especially when the weather goes to hell. The airports, not the airlines, are responsible for removing the snow and ice and managing the jetways. If the jetways are inoperative due to snow and ice, or if the taxiways haven't been plowed, airplanes (which are very clumsy and hard to maneuver on slippery pavement) can't get back to the gate to let the passengers get off. They can't let the passengers out on the taxiways to walk back to the terminal if they can't a stairway to the plane, and the TSA probably wouldn't allow it anyhow. And if the airport can't or doesn't plow the taxiways and ramps, they can't get buses out to transport the passengers.

So there is a lot more to this problem than meets the eye. There needs to be a coordinated effort among everyone involved, not just the airlines, to prevent these problems from happening, and the public (and, apparently, Congress) needs to get accurate information about how the whole system works.

You make a dozen EXCELLENT points that I didn't add, but please read my new thread about this subject: <http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=243466&mesg_id=243466>

and please add your points into my thread!

THANKS!

After all, being falsely imprisoned for half a day... Oh, wait, that wasn't you.

:eyes:

were apparently just as mishandled, with passengers being kept in the dark about the status of their flights and told that yes, the flights were going, with just a bit of delay, while meanwhile, the majors were simply cancelling their flights.

Northwest has actually been good about this, in my experience. The last time my Christmas flight was affected, I got a phone call the night before saying that my flight was cancelled due to an incoming blizzard and that I would be rescheduled for two days later. It all worked out well in the end, because I had no pressing reason to go back to Portland, I could hang out at my mom's house for free, and when I turned up to check in for the flight two days later, I found that I'd gotten an op-up to first class. :-)

that started it all the last time the PBOR (pax bill of rights) stuff went around in Congress some seven years ago - they had passengers stuck on two different flights in a major blizzard on the tarmac for 22-24 hours and it was all over the news. Some Congressmen held hearings afterwards.

learned their lesson. :-)

i sure as hell hope that your airline job has absolutely nothing to do with customer service/contact.

and yes, i used to work for an airline- united.

the airlines have very little control over when passengers can deplane if there is no scheduled, assigned gate or leased gate for that day/airline/time or when the flight was diverted -- TSA, ATC and the airport authority have that control -- not the airline. The airline can desperately want to accommodate passengers, but they cannot just offload pax onto a tarmac -- that is a STERILE area, and doing so would cause a a major security breach that would shut down the entire airport -- or didn't you know that? You said you were airline...

So blame that 11 hour delay on the TSA - an agency brought to you by Homeland Security.

If you left UA before 9/11, then it's not the same job by any stretch - it's a new world and the government agencies have more control now over the daily and irreg ops processes of this industry than you know or could imagine.

in not ordering a set of stairs to be driven over to deplane the passengers sooner? (that's how the passengers were ultimately taken from the plane- it didn't return to the gate)

so- it would seem that you are COMPLETELY mistaken, as those passengers WERE offloaded onto the tarmac.

You can't imprison people because it doesn't fit into YOUR economic model.

The airlines exist to serve the customers, not the other way around.

It is a civil rights issue.

You cannot force people to stay in a tiny sealed tube with 300 other passengers sharing a few chemical toilets with no food.

There are children, babies, pregnant women, elderly, claustrophobics, people on medicine, etc.

We don't care about the complicatons you're talking about. Figure it out or get out of business. The free market will figure itself out once you are out of the way. It's called entrpeneurism as opposed to monopoly.

We don't care. Don't hold us hostage. It's a civil rights issue.

But they must be more advanced than us in terms of security protocols, because they handle it all quite expertly.

some of the smaller regional flights use outside stairs. There's usually - but not always - someone from the airline to herd passengers from the plane to the terminal building so they don't wander around the tarmac.

It may take a while to find the stairs that fit bigger planes, but wouldn't an airport have some of these anyway for emergencies?

They put us directly onto a bus and took us straight to immigration and customs.

Hardly a podunk airport.

if they are allowed to "DePlane" because "walking across the tarmac to Gate" is very hazardous. Also that Airline Insurance and Passenger Insurance would come into conflict if passengers just got off the planes and walked back to gate. Stair step heights which have been raised could cause passenger injuries and in heavy rain or snow...there could be accidents that would be blamed on the airlines and not the passengers.

That's the Airlines view...but WHY should Passengers be subjected to "hostage" with overflowing, smelly toilets to relieve themselves in, NO FOOD, lack of water and NO AIR...with elderly passengers and babies and toddlers?

There needs to be some COMPROMISE...which I told my Pilot friend...and he agreed...:shrug:

In many, many other countries, they don't even HAVE sophisticated gate systems like we have. They offload in all weather, all the time. Surely the airlines and airports can come up with some protocols to allow for this in emergencies.

I'm just not buying this at all.

the passengers and the airlines to improve service. But...as he said the way it is now the Pilots have NO Voice...it's the Airline Management who makes the decisions. And, this guy did time as a Union Rep and it was such a depressing experience he didn't elect to serve to rep the Unions for another term. He said it was because Airline Management is working against the Pilots and Flight Attendants at every turn.

The Pilots live under fear of being layed off and their pensions are gone for the younger pilots (my relative) their health care has been cut and he makes only 60,00 a year after 20 years of flying and he's been cut back in salary twice. He was making 70,00 until American made their Eagle Pilots take big cuts to keep their jobs.

Only the older Pilots make the Big Bucks...the ones who fly the Big jets. The rest are taking the hits like the rest of Americans with Lay Offs downsizing and giving up more and more to keep the Owners in the BIG BUCKS for RETIREMENT/PERKS/STOCK OPTIONS.

They work for "DeMan" and yet they are very dedicated caring about their passengers and going through "retraining" every few months to make sure they are "up to their flying skills."

It's a mess all over America....for workers..but most Americans think the Pilots and Flight Attendants are making what they used to make...years ago...before late Clinton/Bush...

They don't care about the passengers. Money is the only bottom line for them.

If they saw a connection between the shitty service they give and their declining sales, maybe they would improve.

But they keep thinking that lowering the price is the only thing people care about. Wrong.

I fly on other country's airlines any chance I get, because almost invariably the worst service is from US airline companies. Shitty service starting from bitchy ticket agents, unsmiling flight attendants, surly security people and an overwhelming "fuck you, we got you there eventually, didn't we?" attitude.

Fly almost ANY OTHER airline company. European, Asian, whatever, you will see what I mean. There is no comparison.

It's really rather disgusting to see someone arguing that airlines should have the right to imprison people for hours on end. It's pathetic that the justification is "You just don't understand!!"

:puke:

Just because that's what your superiors tell you, don't make it a fait accompli.

But thanks for letting us know how ignorant, we the consumers/customers/tax payers that have bailed out your industry time and time again are.

They government would never ever make up weak, silly-ass shit to keep people in line.

Talk about de-humanizing! It is that kind of not so subtle use of language that enables humans to treat each other like shit.

It stands for "passengers", is that an insult to you?

"For example, those who follow analytic philosophy from Ludwig Wittgenstein onward accept the proposition that, as Wittgenstein said in the Tractatus Logico-Philosophicus"

You're just too suave for any airline cabin, I see that now.

I do have real sympathy for people who have to make a lot of complex systems work and try to keep a LOT of people happy.

That said, in recent years I've been appalled by the customer service by many people who work for airlines. There have been standout, stellar people that have been fantastic. But they've been been the exception, not the rule.

And no matter how you look at it, it ought to be CRIMINAL to keep people sitting in an airplane on the ground for 11 hours!

Free market should eventually lead to better service once the whole system crashes.

Is this from every carrier?

As to "I'm proud to not work for one" I can only extrapolate that one should be ashamed TO work for one, right?

just about every one is associated with some miserable experience. My partner travels frequently so he's a better gauge than I am. I know there are airlines he absolutely won't fly, and none he's thrilled about.

As to the extrapolation, I wouldn't extrapolate anything about what anyone else should do.

airline workers in the least. I do prefer my employer to theirs, but that's personal preference.

I can't believe that we can't see the relationship between this and our international abuse of human rights.

I'm so thankful she represents me .