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My main question about Chavez, lets say a Democrat gets into the Presidency

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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:25 AM
Original message
My main question about Chavez, lets say a Democrat gets into the Presidency
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 12:26 AM by ShaneGR
And Chavez continues with his agenda threatening the US, threatening his neighbors, jacking up oil prices, what then? Because I think the reality that most people aren't recognizing is he's the next Castro. El Presidente for life, our country is going to have to deal with him for a LONG time. He's already said he wants to be President until 2020 or farther "god willing." Keep in mind he's sitting on a ton of oil. To the tune of 325 million per day.
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nightrider767 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
1. Like Castro He Needs An Enemy...
I hope the Dems won't help him in that respect.
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madokie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:31 AM
Response to Original message
2. where do you get your info on Chavez and the Venezuelans
best I can remember he's been elected with a pretty good sized majority too unlike our squatter who needed to be installed by the suppreme court
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:33 AM
Response to Original message
3. "jacking up oil prices"
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 12:34 AM by lwfern
The nerve of some countries, thinking they have the right to set their own prices on their own natural resources.

Were you thinking we should invade because they're getting all uppity?

Also, could you post a link to where he threatens the US? Thanks in advance.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:14 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. Sure, cutting off oil supplies
http://www.google.com/search?q=chavez+oil+cut+off+US&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Only about 500 threads.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:32 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Yes, I've seen that.
It's a decision about who they wish to sell their own resources to. That's just exercising their right to control their own exports.

You made it sound like he actually threatened us, which I don't believe is true.
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ShaneGR Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:46 AM
Response to Reply #10
16. Come on, you don't consider that a threat?
Seriously, you do realize a cutoff on that scale would send gas prices well above $4 and affect every single Americans daily lives in a negative way? How is that not a threat?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #16
24. It's the US's choice. I seriously don't get your logic.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 10:48 AM by 1932
Venezuela wants to sell oil at a fair price and have the government it choses. The only conceivable situation in which they don't do that is if the US tries to interfere in their Democracy.

Are you saying that we should all wish that foreign governments were ruled undemocratically for the benefit of private corporate interests because it makes life easier for Americans?

I don't think it does.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:50 AM
Response to Reply #16
33. No, I don't consider it a threat.
Newsflash: The United States does not have a god-given right to all of the natural resources on the entire planet.
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LittleClarkie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #3
38. He hasn't yet. Is only threatening. Citco's are among the cheapest gas around
But I would hope he'd continue to think of the poor.
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SyntaxError Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. Well, in which ways is he threatening the US?
I mean, what is he doing any different than what most other nations(particularly the US) do when protecting their own interests?

You can dislike Chavez, and shout "USA USA USA" all you want, and I personally don't have a problem with it. However, I do have a problem with people holding some of idea that other countries are not allowed to look out for their own interests, and that when they do, they are somehow "evil".
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SyntaxError Donating Member (378 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:40 AM
Response to Reply #4
6. Also...
I'm rather indifferent when it comes to Chavez. The fact is that I don't know what to think of him. Yeah, he has done and is trying to do something that some may view as questionable. However, I do not live there and I do not know the situation. That's something the people of that country need to figure out for themselves. So unless he starts invading his neighbors or starts executing people who disagree with him, then I don't think it's much to be concerned about.
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
5. Chavez has no real power outside of his region.

He cannot hurt anyone militarily. We don't need oil. We just need the guts to get off of it. As we remove passenger vehicles and other very wasteful uses of oil, prices will fall so that it doesn't hurt the industries where oil works out really well.

3000 pound cars that carry 200 pound people are not efficient. Tractor trailers are. Leave the oil for them as we figure out a way to more efficiently distribute produce.

Bottom line. Chavez isn't rounding people up, threatening his neighbors, or doing anything other than mouthing off.

Let him think he's important.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 12:58 AM
Response to Original message
7. HRC will be the next president
Hugo will bask in her leftism
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:53 AM
Response to Reply #7
12. LOL
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:29 AM
Response to Reply #12
41. hi
:hi:
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
9. You have to stop watching Fox Snooze.
Really, it warps your outlook.

What do you think the appropriate response is when the United States tries to destabilize your democracy?
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Mr_Monday Donating Member (220 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. No one watches Fox News here.
At least I hope not.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:05 AM
Response to Reply #14
15. In fairness, the smears have been coming out all over our media, Mr. Monday.
What I really take away from this incident is how screwed we are in that way. Our media is so thoroughly co-opted that I hope there's some part of the party that spends 24/7 working on how to counter balance the baloney. :(
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Bright Eyes Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:49 AM
Response to Original message
11. Well, what would you intend?
Bomb? Invade? Coup?

Or maybe, JUST MAYBE, we can leave a sovereign nation alone....for once?
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Sen. Walter Sobchak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 01:54 AM
Response to Original message
13. he won't last
There is enough wealth amongst the general population of Venezuela that his antics as quasi-dictator won't be tolerated by the public at large for very long when it hits their lifestyle.
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:50 AM
Response to Reply #13
17. Their lifestyle is debunking for Panama and Florida.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 02:50 AM by sfexpat2000
He already has lasted. If BushCo kills him tomorrow, it will already be too late.

And yet, another gratuitous and ill-informed dictator claim. I hope you have a day job.
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Whisp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:51 AM
Response to Original message
18. how is he threatening the US?
by calling the pretzeldent an asshole?

what Threat?
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IsItJustMe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:35 AM
Response to Original message
19. You have pulled an old trick from our msm playbook. Your statement says Hugo seems to be threatning
everyone. I see no evidence of that.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:38 AM
Response to Original message
20. Chavez threatens us like a fly threatens a horse.
Chavez's actions are a window into a growing resentment of our interventions. The growing resentment and its root causes are the threat.
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Donald Ian Rankin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:12 AM
Response to Reply #20
29. Tell me, have you ever been bitten by a horse-fly?
It's not something to be blase about.
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mmonk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #29
31. But it isn't fatal.
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 11:24 AM by mmonk
The difference is that our increasing classical aggressive interference (which has deep historical roots) creates the fly. When there are too many flies to escape from is when we fall.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:39 AM
Response to Original message
21. He seems to hate America
Why people would defend that regardless of who is sitting in the White House truly baffles me, unless they hate America too.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. He's actually said in speeches that he loves the America of Martin Luther King, Jr and FDR.
And so do I.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #23
25. How sweet
But that didn't address my comment about now.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. What is your comment, anyway? You don't think anyone should criticize America's exploitation of
foreign countries? That's what patriotism means to you?

Historically, the quest for empire tends to destroy countries, and if you're any kind of patriot you should be asking yourself how anti-democratic wealth-concentrating foreign policy is working for democracy at home?
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:08 AM
Response to Reply #27
28. I'm talking about another WAR being started because of this and more innocent people dying
Is that patriotism to you? Stop putting words in my mouth. Of course I am against IMPERIALISM, and in that vein I won't support Chavez's either should it come to that. Got that? Where the hell does it end?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. I still don't understand your argument. You think Venezuela is going to declare war on the US?
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:31 PM
Response to Reply #30
35. You think that impossible? Or the other way around?
Some of the comments here sure lead me to believe some would welcome it... amd I've had enough of that bs on all fronts.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 06:38 PM
Response to Reply #35
40. Yes. I think it's impossible that VZ will declare war on US. As for the other way around,
I'm not sure I agree with your 'have your cake and eat it' logic of criticizing good foreign leaders because our bad American political system might "force" us to destroy them if they are too good at representing the interests of their own citizens.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #28
34. You are holding two opposing positions at once.
I think we all know Chavez isn't going to declare war on the US.

It's within the realm of possibility though that we will do some idiotic military action, covert or otherwise, in Venezuela. That's how we operate. And we would do it because another country refuses to sell their natural resources to us - even though that's their right as a sovereign nation.

Have you ever seen how if a two-year-old wants something that isn't theirs and the other person won't give it to them, they sometimes have a temper tantrum and throw things at the other person's head? Don't be like that.

If you are against imperialism, criticize Bush and Clinton, not Chavez.
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RestoreGore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 02:34 PM
Response to Reply #34
36. I will criticize them ALL if I believe it is warranted
I do not support Imperialism from ANY political extreme.
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noamnety Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. I'm not clear on your response.
Has Chavez done anything that qualifies as imperialism?
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:41 AM
Response to Original message
22. The logic behind this post is a disgrace to your avatar!
Misinformed, you are.
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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 10:58 AM
Response to Original message
26. He's going to join with Fidel and invade Miami in '53 Dodges!!!
And, we won't even be able to flee the hordes because our SUV's will be out of gas!!

“The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.” H.L. Mencken
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SoCalDem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 11:24 AM
Response to Original message
32. Chavez PAID OFF his neighbor's IMF/World Bank debts
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 11:24 AM by SoCalDem
and "his" oil is part of the world market, so he does not set the prices.. he benefits from high prices like ANY oil producing nation..

The threats against america are more a statement of fact... If you sold ..lets say milk to a guy with a large famliy who continually tried to steal/and or poison your cow, or tell everyone your cow gave bad milk and you should be run out of town (none one it true)..would you be all that eager to continue to call him a "customer"? or would you look for other people who would buy your milk?
By telling the truth, would you be "threatening" him?? by telling him you prefer not to sell to him? that's a threat?
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Cleita Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-02-07 03:14 PM
Response to Original message
39. Before you put up threads like this that only display your
Edited on Sun Dec-02-07 03:14 PM by Cleita
ignorance in this matter, do some reading first. There is plenty of information out there on what is really happening in South American and USA hegemony there which is shaping our foreign policy and feeding our propaganda mill. A good place to start is reading anything by Noam Chomsky. Our own Latin American Forum here on DU has loads of information as well.
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