Venezuela and Iraq. It's the same issue, Stupid.

All this is happening in a long historical context of US interference in other nations.
The so-called "War on Terror" is just a ruse to hide the same old time-worn politics of the right.

Scenario:

A national leader, no matter how democratic or dictatorial--that's not an issue, has control over a vast portion of the world's oil reserves.
The NeoConservatives are hell-bent on wresting control of natural resources from the control of nations, transferring ownership to the private domain.

Methods = Same old well-worn crap from some old CIA manual (with examples):

Demonize the leader (Castro).
Disrupt the economy (Nicaraguan and the Reagan/Bush Contras).
Finance any insurgents, no matter who (Osam bina Laden).
Send in the covert ops pros who fix or interfere with elections (Venezuela).
If no elections, overthrow the bastard (Iraq).
If a liberal takes control, shoot him (Allende).

Past Successes:

Arbenz, Guatemala (reverses nationalization of land).
Somoza, Nicaragua (long-standing dictator suppresses own people).
Pinochet, (tens of thousands murdered by US installed dictatorship)
The Shah, Iran (nice oil, thanks).

the list is long ....

Solution:

VOTE the NeoCons out of power in the USA (unless, of course, the pros who fix elections are working here too).

On edit: Unintended typo corrected. Purposeful typo retained to bypass the automated word search surveillance of the entire Internet :rofl:

this US Administration, and soon. So tired of there blatant arrogance.

Abominable. They're bringing Plantation Economics to America ... trafficking in human labor and creating a Ruling Elite and permanent "underclass."

The list extends far into our history. Imperialism, under the guise of religion, or supposed national security, has long been with us. The Philippines, Vietnam on and on.

before you know it, you have so called progressive people carrying their water and fighting their informational wars for them.

It sure helps when the news is all about personality cults instead of the real human family around the globe! If all we know is the USA ....

One of the important facets of keeping the truth from surfacing is controlling the media.

Ours is almost like theirs was.

We can either control the media, or educate the people so they don't believe the hype.


I say the answer comes from the people. Every time. But not everyone is smart enough to rise above the lies.

At least now, we can counter the cr@P! to a degree. We can't let them take the net, too.

I honestly thought the RIAA trying to reach in and grab college radio stations a few years back was their first attempt. We fought back. And won. But now we know it's a continuous fight.

Hey, we've learned a lot in 8 years, haven't we.

I appreciate so much, everything you all have passed on to us "underlings". Right on.

Plus, I'm lucky I have a dad who actually gets this stuff.

By the way, I just found a place to call home. I bought a piece of land in Mendocino. I'm broke, but I'm happy.

:toast:

Recommended :kick: #5

It has been the policy of the united states under ALL administrations since the start of the republic to take steps that ensure us interests are met.

This means overthrowing governments, killing people, and other unsavory things, behind the scenes. That is the reality of the world.

Sometimes that worked well (East Germany, fall of the USSR) and some times not so well (Iran)

We killed communists in Greece and played games in Latin America with the USSR and Cuba.

You may not be aware that we came close to a global thermonuclear war because of Castro. I am sure someone in the CIA was wishing they had popped him in the head before 62.

In a way you are right, but you don't really cover it. It does not matter who is in office, this policy will continue where required.

Not promoting it, more like gravity, it will just be there. All nations do it.

It's the right thing to do.

:sarcasm:

needs no defense. You can argue against it, fight it, deny it.

In the end this process is followed by every administration. It will be followed by future administrations.

Thanks for clearing that up for us you authoritarian ghoul.

the rules for comporting ourselves laid down by Jefferson et. al. Trade with everyone, ally with none, keep control of our money in the hands of The People.

Basically, it boiled down to removing the ability of the ruling class to amass enough power to enslave The People.

So, did Castro fix Florida 2000 for Bush :rofl:

Okay, let's just for a moment assume you are not just flowing at the mouth with crap from a horse's blind end,

Please provide some facts to back up what you just said.

"All nation do it." For example, if all nations were overthrowing the governments of dozens of other nations, that would be rather chaotic.

Do all nations murder other nation's democratically-elected Presidents?

You say "played games in Latin America" like killing thousands of people is a sport.
That, my friend, is the sort of high-grade horse puckey used to grow gardens of lies.
It is also the apologism of the ill-informed. Where were you when the Bay of Pigs invasion was launched?

Obviously, you have never hung out with the hunted humans!

China interferes in Tibet. Australia has interfered in Timor. The US and USSR interfered all over the world.

France in its former colonies. The list goes on..

USSR:
All over africa, pick a nation..AK is on the fucking flag of one.
Afghanistan
Vietnam

Bay of Pigs, Cuban missile crisis, Angola, East Germany.

Grow up, look at the world around you. It did not just shake out like this, it has been manipulated.

Both the US and Russia killed heads of state and others. That is as true as gravity.

Nations will continue to manipulate world affairs to suit their needs.

:eyes:

of the indefensible caught in a lie. It may work with the small minds that believed Reagan's lies. It won't fly here.

This is also a qualitative issue. Manipulation of "world affairs to suit their needs" does not permit nations or persons to commit crimes! Your generalizations fail to differentiate normative conduct from illegal covert operations and obvious criminality of conduct, like murdering the leaders of democratic nations to topple a liberal, elected President (never could happen in the USA, even if the USA has pros doing itoverseas, right?).

Regarding the "read a book" laugh. What do you think I did--every day for many decades--before the Internet!!

Like gravity? What a ridiculous statement!

There is no "requirement" for the kinds of murderous and anti-democratic interventions that the U.S. has carried out around the globe, the only interests being served are those of the plutocrats.

sw

The gravity of your cruel world does not draw me.

Way to go!!!!!!!

:woohoo:

Instead we tried the Bay of Pigs and failed miserably.

Yes there are times when it would be better if we put a bullet in someone's head. Hitler would be a good example. 9 times out of 10 however, it seems to lead to a chain of very negative events.

asshole. Policies of mass murder and racism in Latin America are not games. In Greece a lot of people were killed, and lot of them were communists. Your obsession with the guy in the red shirt is getting a little weird. May I suggest you try and get laid or something, seriously it will do you some good.

See this film: THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELEVISED = FILM on the Failed Overthrow of Hugo Chavez
Discussion ongoing here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2386960#2387632

just fookin' love to have Venezuela's O-I-L! Get, a dummy puppet in there and watch it flow into the carlyle coffers.

But, but, but, "Chavez is a Dictator and the disgraced rummy says so".

Viva Chavez!

the history lesson cause I didn't know that. That must really freakin' piss off the carlyle's greedy A$$holes.

came into power. They just ramped it up into overdrive. It is all about corporate interests. There is no ideology there, except for the almighty dollar, with no thought given to ecology, world stability or personal freedoms.

On edit: At this point, there is real reason to think that these type of operations won't continue, with a democratic administration.

that helps with the disconnect from a long and continuous historical (and criminal) process and context.
The neologistic disconnect is just another aspect of the enabling lies.

The so-called "NeoCons" in the Bush Junta today were at the table when Reagan/Bush sent their murderous dollars illegally to the Contras, after selling USG missles to the "terrorists" to earn the illegal money for their "Secret Government" Enterprise.

Watch Bill Moyers "Secret Government for the best summation on film of those criminal times with the same players who control the "intelligence" community today.

The Secret Government: The Constitution in Crisis, by Bill Moyers
1 hr 26 min 29 sec - Feb 14, 2007 - All time views: 120,610

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3505348655137118430

This is the full length 90 min. version of Bill Moyer's 1987 scathing critique of the criminal subterfuge carried out by the Executive ... all » Branch of the United States Government to carry out operations which are clearly contrary to the wishes and values of the American people. The ability to exercise this power with impunity is facilitated by the National Security Act of 1947. The thrust of the exposé is the Iran-Contra arms and drug-running operations which flooded the streets of our nation with crack cocaine. The significance of the documentary is probably greater today in 2007 than it was when it was made. We now have a situation in which these same forces have committed the most egregious terrorist attack on US soil and have declared a fraudulent so-called "War on Terror". The ruling regime in the US who have conducted the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, are now banging the war drum .....

http://www.democracynow.org/2005/5/17/confessions_of_an_economic_hit_man
May 17, 2005


Confessions of an Economic Hit Man: How the U.S. Uses Globalization to Cheat Poor Countries Out of Trillions
We play an interview with, John Perkins–author of “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man”–who says he says he helped the U.S. cheat poor countries around the globe out of trillions of dollars by lending them more money than they could possibly repay and then taking over their economies.



The protests this week in Bolivia come as Latin America is seeing significant success among popular progressive movements. From Hugo Chavez of Venezuela, Lula da Silva of Brazil to the changes of government in Uruguay and now Ecuador, there is a continent-wide trend that has Washington concerned. The US has long exploited countries throughout Central and Latin America for the natural resources, labor and land. Over the decades, this exploitation has been backed up by force and through devastating policies dictated to puppet regimes. Our next guest says he helped the U.S. cheat poor countries in Latin America and around the globe out of trillions of dollars by lending them more money than they could possibly repay and then taking over their economies. From 1971 to 1981, John Perkins worked for the international consulting firm of Chas T. Main. He described himself as an “economic hit man.” He"s written a memoir called Confessions of an Economic Hit Man. When he joined us in our fire house studio, we asked him to begin with how he came to be recruited first by the National Security Agency–far larger than the C.I.A.–and then this so-called international consulting firm of Chas T. Main.

John Perkins, author of “Confessions of an Economic Hit Man.”


also Globalization by Greg Palast ..and about Argentina and the world bank and Jebbie and Enron!!

fly

The US ran the government of Perez he was a puppet for our oil companies ..even under Carter.

In fact i was in Venezuela during the first OPEC meeting there during our hostage crisis in Iran..there was all kind sof shit going on in Venezuela by our government then..and it stunk..i was living in a hotel that many of the real people who worked in the Iranian embassy, who were taken out before the hostages were taken, and they were living in hiding and in limbo until the US decided what to do with them and their families.
The pilots who flew the king of Kuwait lived with us at the hotel..and we had helicopters flying over our heads at the poll daily.Venezuelan and US AF..

at a Xmas and New years party by my hubby's employer i danced with the VP of Venezuela..i told him it was a disgrace the way women and children were treated and the poor in Venezuela..he laughed and told me American women are too idealistic..and that if i have a complaint i should take it up with my own government..wink wink..

fly

This statement: "At this point, there is real reason to think that these type of operations won't continue, with a democratic administration."

The only way that statement would be true is if it said: "At this point, there is NO real reason to think that these type of operations won't continue, with a democratic administration."

U.S. imperialism and interventionism has ALWAYS been a bipartisan project.

sw

what I MEANT to say. I believe there is NO reason it won't continue under a democratic administration.

I know there's a few wide-eyed partisan naifs on this board who DO think that electing a Dem president will change these things, but I never considered you among their number. ;)

sw

between February 2, 1999 and the end of Bill Clinton's Presidency, when both Hugo Chavez and Clinton served as Presidents of their countries at the same time.

I just can't seem to remember anything that would support your claim, based on what happened at that time.

might be a better name for these primitives.

period you specified and the relationship between Clinton and Chavez, there is no doubt that the CIA, under Clinton's administration was directed by the White House to change the focus of their mission from Cold War enterprises to those of economic security operations. As Clinton pushed for a global economy, he utilized the CIA in that mission.

http://www.nthposition.com/evolvingintelligence.php

So yes, for corporate interests, the CIA was used during the Clinton administration.

It's not exactly a secret that America has been an empire since 1945 and that every President has had policies to a certain extent to preserve the empire. One day we might get a President that is interested in re-defining America's role in the world.

Between now and then, that President will have a much smaller mess to clean up if we have more Democrats in the White House.

1912 - U.S. marines invade Nicaragua, beginning
an occupation that was to last almost continuously until 1933. ...

President Taft declares: "The day is not far distant
when three Stars & Stripes at three equidistant points will mark
our territory: one at the North Pole, another at the Panama Canal and
the third at the South Pole. The whole hemisphere will be ours in fact
as, by virtue of our superiority of race, it already is ours morally."

More chronology: http://www.chavezthefilm.com/html/backgrd/usa.htm

because the biggest problem here in the American Empire is the belief that people benefit from our intervention, and that we are good for the world.

Even good leftys often believe that line.

for our own safety.

rather than one humanity and one human family.

the biggest threat to the world in my opinion is the thing that Ike warned us about, the big war machine, the neoCON's of today. My worry is that the rest of the world will all decide thats it and decide to join in their common good and stop the neoCON's themselves. Nothing stops China or Russia from doing that today except their own decisions. Why they don't is not only because of our big stick anymore as thats been partly debunked in Iraqistan, hasn't it. Either we stop these traitors ourselves or someone else will.