My 1/2 ton Chevy today cost $70.20 to fill up with gas., WTF? Under Clinton, it was only $38.00

That SOB Bush and his OIL Buddies are screwing us Americans big time....
I hate this fucked up World...we are stuck on stupid....

The fact is, we're not paying the full price of the gasoline that you and I burn. At least not at the pump. The carbon released every time we drive anywhere shoves those costs onto mostly into the future so that our kids and grandkids can pay them. In effect, we're mortgaging our future to pay for cheap energy today.

I don't want to take away from your point about personal cost. It's a totally valid one, but every time I hear people talking about the cost of gas I keep thinking about what I see as the bigger picture. That picture's looking pretty bleak right now.

The picture is bleak only because our leader is fixated on self interest and not for the COMMON GOOD.

He is ALFRED E NEWMAN personified.....

I just wish we had been much better prepared as a nation for this. It's not like this is some big surprise.

You can't deny that.

Think about it this way. Every gallon of gasoline you burn contributes to global warming. Oceans rise swamping cities, agricultural areas desertify. These are costs which are passed on to future generations because we are burning fossil fuels today.

We're getting (relatively) cheap energy today at the cost of a much much warmer world in the near and long-term future.

Don't forget about the diverse life that our use of the dead kills off as well.

It's only cheap because we insulate ourselves to the cost. Every time the check gets near the table, we move the table closer to the door so that we can run out. Obviously we can't get out of the restaurant, so we come up with more creative ways to not pay. We move the table to different corners. Every time we do that though, we increase the bill. The more often we don't pay, the more the walls of the restaurant start to crumble, and we run out of places to go. It's almost the same as paying taxes.

If we don't stop harnessing the energy of the planet for our benefit, on ever increasing scales, we'll be the only ones left, but there won't be much of a habitat.

much less think of viable solutions...."What? Me think?"

our atmosphere on to the Tuvalu people and the Bangladeshis and future Floridians...........and farmers around the world who lose crops to climate destabilization............and to the Inuit whose villages on the coast are being washed away.........and to the ecosystems that are being destroyed and to the coral that is bleached and dying.........and to the plankton at the very base of the ocean food web. We will pass these true costs on to the next generation and our neighbors and fellow living creatures in order to continue denying that there ARE any such costs.

To whom, indeed.

Sorry, but that opinion makes no sense and I am very annoyed to see it in every one of these threads here on DU. The individual can't change the "bigger picture" because there are no alternative options available.

Individuals can make a difference. You can drive less. You can carpool. You can get a more efficient vehicle. I'm not blaming. I'm just pointing out that we all are mortgaging our future to drive more cheaply today.

And there are plenty of alternatives in that field

and live in a space small enough that you CAN afford to heat.

That's what they used to do in the olden days.

Most places around the world with much higher gas prices, the oil co is not raking in obnoxious profits but it is highly taxed. I think oil should be taxed more, with less profits going to the companies. Use the taxes for mass transport, for building alternative energy things (wind, sun), for helping people do things like super insulate their homes.

It seems to me to be the worst of all worlds to pump billions of pounds of CO2 into the air so we all have the 'freedom' to individually drive a hummer 30 miles to work one way. If we're going to burn fossil fuels we can at least do so in the most efficient manner possible.

I'm kinda screwed in the screw (i.e. fuck) arena, due to the hours I work (if nothing else) ... but please Mr. Bush, get off my gas you fucker.

Meh. ZERO chance of that.

Gods but do I need fucked. Literally. And not by my government.

(on edit: fixed that govt thingy.)

And it really doesn't matter who will be President. The world is running out of oil.

It takes me $56 to fill up my tank, but I know having a car that gets 19 miles to the gallon is a luxury and I expect I'll never be able to get a car like this again.

Leaders are supposed to inspire, command, innovate, protect the nation/planet, etc ...

Bush is supposed to find ways to lessen our cost of living....NOT make it worse. He is stuck on STUPID....I mean,...LOOK at him.

us to rip the planet apart, and then to insulate ourselves from the consequences.

The only thing Bush is doing is nothing. Physical reality is catching up to us. We're starting to actually have to pay for our actions, as a species, as Americans. We've had to do it before, but then someone comes along and allows us to cheat death again.

:hug:

of what we are experiencing, nearly 100% employment, residences are located close to work, more than adequate food production,
Social Probs(crime) hardly exist, exciting, fun to be alive, many luaus all the time, Room is no problem- as the city just expands as required, No Famines - water shortages, extremely low rent, and , essentially, a paradise.

I am going to give the plans to this place to the Dem Nom to put this into action... it is a five year project just to initiate beyond the model stage. The plan is entirely feasible with off the shelf technology/material/etc.

I've been thinking about this place for months. It is an advanced model for a concept first dreamed of by a nuke physicist.

I just bought a cheap printer to get started on the project. This will facilitate the effort in a way too long to describe here.

Sometimes, I think of all the good things we can do to lessen our collective misery but ignore for one reason or another, leading to my frustrations....

Come, we go Luau. We eat, drink, laugh, dream, smile, sing, imagine, and enjoy...as humans really should.

Time is getting short....I getting old and tired....I had to rant....Thanks for the support.....Opi

Sometimes a Prius just isn't possible.

I drive a Prius but my husband needs a full-sized truck for work. I figure we balance each other out.

and i don't think priuses have 5th wheels.\

better milage.

Come, we go surf, sky dive, snorkel....

A Prius just does not fit every taste nor pocketbook.

like for example bad arthritic knees. I had to trade in my Civic for a higher up car (an Accord) after almost being hit trying to get out of the Civic. It was a real painful effort for me to do it (more or less hoisting myself up on the door frame). It HAD to go. I do not get the mileage I once did but :wtf: else could I do other than buy a SUV :puke: .

Can't win with this situation. Nope.

The deal is already cooked. As for those saying "it already cost "x" amount in Europe" ... yes that is true BUT they also have health insurance for all!

:kick:

and now, high prices for everything.....Bush/GOP has been a disaster....

and damn them! Now I cannot afford to drive the Accord very far really. Luckily, I do not drive much. If I could sell the car and give up driving I would do it. However, there is hardly any public transportation available where I live. They shut down the train years ago so you really are stuck if you need to travel somewhere. The only other option *available* is to "Fly the Unfriendly Skies of United", something I refuse to do !! :mad:

:kick:

The Prius has one of the lowest co-efficients of drag of any production automobile. At .26 that is better than the C6 Corvette and much to superior to say the .32-.33 of the newest American market Ford Focus.

What do you think of Chrysler's cab forward push in the 90s? Didn't that improve aerodynamics and internal volume?



Finally anyone who thinks American car companies are gods of style should have to defend the Pontiac Aztec.

As China and India continue to industrialize, more and more people will be made to compete for less and less crude oil. That means higher gas prices for all. Given that the US simply refused to invest in mass transit in favor of interstates, you get this situation. Thinking long-term hasn't been a strong point of America.

He is so NEWMANESQUE...."What, me THINK?"

Hey;-) at the time I thought premium was better for the engine. the other day we filled our other vehicle, not to be named for fear of my being bloodied, we put 60 bucks in it without a problem, it wasn't empty when I started and not full when I finished either, same size tank btw. We don't drive the f150 enough anymore to ever fill it up as gas does go bad. buck fush

Our National Debt would be almost GONE...instead...its almost 10 TRILLION...this Bush Dufus is Killing America.

exactly it would be like. if nothing else I can come away from the clinton years having lived in somewhat better times as they were my best 8 of 59 and counting years.

the Dufus Trend...

I wus born before WW2 and have lived enough to know them Pubs Scammed us real bad....we are fucked...unless we do sumpthing soon...the rabbit hole can only get deeper.

hundreds of thousands of Iraqis would be alive today.

I get real depressed when I think about it and the only thing that helps me to keep my sanity is the real deep belief that our congress critters will sometime in the hopefully near future pick up the ball and start playing the game. this crew we have now are really stick it to us and it needs to stop

Bush is Killing us...literally and financially

And it was showing it still had a quarter tank in it when I stopped to fill it up.

Man...that is painful...$400 to $500 per month?

benifits one of the items that made a big difference was the new job was about 15 bucks or more a day closer. So with that coupled with his actual increase in pay he actually got a pretty good pay raise.

out to the people rather the people having to drive to the work, I know several companys around here that was started during that time as a matter of fact. It was a good idea back then and its a good idea now, imo

me dumb questions like why don't I get a nice place out in Agoura or Thousand Oaks or the Santa Clarita Valley, lol. Like I have that kind of money for the "newer" housing..........but now I'm laughing all the way to the bank. Folks out there that DON'T have Priuses are really hurting.

That and the hour and a half of my day that I won't have to waste in traffic anymore- I just don't have the time to spare it.

cause I wasn't going to get up one second sooner than I had to so it gave me a chance to get awake before I started to work but as I got older all that changed. the last 25 or so years of my work history I worked close to home and I would just go to work 30 minutes earlier than I had to for the same reasons, to get woke up

although at the time...gas here was 70 cents a gal.

1) Peak oil. Not even the Clenis could halt that steep hill we're about to start really sliding down. Not *'s fault
2) The weakening dollar. The cost of oil is going up more for us than say for Europe, not because they were paying more already, but because our dollar is worth less. Complicated, but definitely partly Bush's fault. Also very much partly Greenspan's fault, which is why THE FED MUST GO!

He could after all these years have at least lifted his pinkie to do something to actually get the US off of the insane oil-peak oil death curve. But he has RESISTED all common sense and public duty so that his republicon oil cronies could PROFIT.

America was and still is hell bent on driving off this oil cliff.
Just ask Carter.

We are grossly wasting our energy resources … as though their supply was infinite. We must even face the prospect of changing our basic ways of living. This change will either be made on our own initiative in a planned and rational way, or forced on us with chaos and suffering by the inexorable laws of nature.

— Jimmy Carter, 1976

You know, even a little gesture...or something...

I blame him, Dickie Halliburton Cheny and his greedy, short-sighted republicon oil cronies for showing no leadership, and not even trying...

I will never forget how republicon hero Ron Reagan, immediately upon moving into the White House -- ordered that the solar energy panels that Carter had installed on the roof be taken down and carted to the dump.

That's republicon "leadership." Bush, Cheney and the other republicons have shown the same kind of "leadership..."

to start the ball really rolling.

Bush has been non-existent on this front, and token support for ITER doesn't count. Fusion is not going to be the stop gap measure.

Bush has not even looked into solutions other than token crap.

and where is Karen Hughes? Back to Texas....thats where Bush should go...

Clearly, he could but wouldn't do the right things for the common good. He is detestable and despicable....a mega fraud.

While Clinton was in office, anyway.

Guess he changed his mind about that.

:eyes:

That would be great to put in my sig line!

the last time I tried to find it it appeared to have been scrubbed.

I'll take a look around again and see if I can scrounge one up. :)

was "mission accomplished". If the mission really was accomplished, then what have my fellow military members been doing over there the last 4 1/2 years? Looting? Slumming? Stealing oil for halliburton?

:think:

Ok, there was some sarcasm/venting in there.

I might start a new thread just to see if anyone else can still find it... from what I remember it "disappeared" a year or two back.

Search for Cheney on this page: http://www.kaos2000.net/bushwatch/repubreport2005.html

I think I'll start that thread now. :)

This is getting ridiculous!

It is one thing you can count on - the ignorant and the poor assume the current president is to blame and will not want to vote for him or his party.

The GOP has done much damage to America...

Their sign is still up, gas was $1.29/gal for unleaded regular. I hold out no hope for anything close to that in the future, but maybe our next president will be a bit more effective at jawboning with the Saudis.

Bush has not been good at anything but taking care of his friends/cronys/oil buddies.

I work from home whenever possible, typically two days a week, combining trips whenever possible. I'm fortunate that my income allows me to absorb the added cost of fuel, but there many people, including several in my family, who aren't as lucky as me.

occured on Chimps watch. Through the Clinton admin, it was thought that the Caspian region would push the date of peak substancially into the future.

Recycled screed follows.

++++++++++++++

Caspian Region. The Oil Isn’t There

Following is a post by 'Petrodollar' in the following thread at peakoil.com. This poster seems to know what he is talking about and what I have previously read about the situation 'plots' with his summary.

I am reproducing the post here because it provides excellent factual information for the coming attacks (when TSHTF next year) on why the Clinton Administration did little regarding energy independence.

http://www.peakoil.com/fortopic21121-0-asc-60.html

On the one hand I can understand your desire to "blame" Gore for not publicly discussing Peak Oil until recently, but you must put history in context before you draw condemnations. Indeed, a lot more is known today than what was known just 8 to 10 years ago.

The first "authoritative" and analytical report on global peak oil that I am aware of was Petroconsultant's 1995 report “The World’s Oil Supply (1930–2050)” - which predicted that peak oil production would occur in the decade following 2000. (written in part by Dr. Colin Campbell). It is rumored the CIA is or was the largest client of Petroconsultants (now IHS Energy), but it is unknown if this report was well received as far as the veracity of the data - but it is a good question for historians....

Anyhow, the one big caveat in that report I suspect were all the estimates from the mid-1990s until late 2001 that the Caspian Sea region could have up to 200 billion barrels of untapped oil, making it the “oil find of the century" - and push back Peak Oil for 12 to 15 years. I think Enron was "banking" on cheap natural gas from the Caspian and a trans-Afghanistan pipeline to save their company re their huge investment in India...

{For that famous quote about the "oil find of the century" see: Stephen Kinzer, “Pipe Dreams: A Perilous New Contest for the Next Oil Prize,” New York Times, September 24, 1997, IV-1}

Indeed, from 1997-1998 the US government and Taliban were negotiating over a trans-Afghanistan pipeline, but these talks were interrupted when two US Embassies in East Africa were bombed during August 1998. These terrorists’ attacks were attributed to Osama bin Laden, who was a “guest” of the Taliban regime. Former president Clinton subsequently launched a cruise missile attack against targets associated with bin Laden, ordered the negotiations with the Taliban called off, and imposed sanctions against the “rogue regime.” Any exploration and worthwhile extraction of the Caspian oil would have to wait until the landscape in central Asia become more conducive to oil pipelines, etc.

{FYI: According to Jean Charles Brisard and Guillaume Dasquie in the French book, The Forbidden Truth, the Bush administration ignored the UN sanctions that had been imposed upon the Taliban and entered into secret negotiations with this supposedly rogue regime from February 2, 2001, to August 6, 2001. The Taliban were not cooperative, according to the statements of Mr. Naik, Pakistan’s former ambassador. He reported that the US threatened a military option if the Taliban did not acquiesce to Washington’s demands about a proposed pipeline route that had to traverse Afghanistan. But I digress...}

I suspect in the late 1990s and perhaps even as the Bush administration entered office in 2001 that the US government may have deducted that the "vast and untapped" Caspian oil would push Peak Oil somewhat into the future. Here's a sampling of the euphoria that surrounded the Caspian in the late 1990s...

Quote:
I cannot think of a time when we have had a region emerge as suddenly to become as strategically significant as the Caspian.

— Former CEO of Halliburton, Dick Cheney, 1998

However, in December 2001, just after US troops took over the capital of Afghanistan, British Petroleum (BP) announced disappointing Caspian drilling results. According to Dale Allen Pfeiffer, an oil industry analyst and former researcher for Michael Ruppert’s www.fromthewilderness.com website, after three exploratory wells were analyzed, it was reported that the Caspian region contains much less oil than originally reported, although there are vast amounts of natural gas. Also, it was discovered that Caspian oil is of poor quality, with up to 20 percent sulfur content, which makes it expensive to refine and creates huge volumes of environmentally damaging waste products.

In 2002 the consulting group PetroStrategies published a study estimating that the Caspian Basin contained only 8 to 39.4 bb of oil. Shortly after this report was discussed in the petroleum news sources, BP and other Western oil companies began reducing their investment plans in the region...and at that point I think the reality of Peak Oil began to creep into consciousness...

Despite exaggerated claims of the “oil find of the century” and predictions of a 'new Saudi Arabia' outside the Middle East, the State Department announced in November 2002 that “Caspian oil represents 4% of world reserves. It will never dominate the world’s markets.”

Unfortunately, this unexpected realization about the Caspian Sea region had serious implications for the US, India, China, Asia, and Europe, since the estimated amount of available hydrocarbons for industrialized and developing nations was now significantly decreased - by 20% in fact if you believed the 200 b/bl estimate. For me, the arguments regarding PO became more valid and convincing after that point, but it was only 4 years ago that the "Caspian myth" was essentially de-bunked

Bottomline: I seem to recall a much more optimistic assessment of global energy supplies (both oil & gas) up thru 2000 when Clinton & Gore left office. Oil was only $10 a barrel in 1998, and talk of Peak Oil would have labeled Gore or whomever an "alarmist" at the very least, and certainly not helped in any future election based on what happened in 1980. (more on that in a moment)

Did the data in the mid to late 1990s support that Peak Oil was imminent? It's hard to tell until relevant CIA and/or DOE documents are released - at which point you will likely be in your 30s or 40s - assuming such documents will ever be released.

The only US President to really address the issue was Jimmy Carter - and every US politician believes that he lost his re-election bid to Reagan in part due to his "pessimistic" (honest) views on global energy supplies, along with that embarrassing incident re American hostages in Tehran during 1979 and the disastrous/failed rescue mission in 1980 didn't help either. Indeed, 30 years ago Carter stated something that no US politician has dared stated until March 2005 when Rep Roscoe Bartlett began his PO crusade in Congress.

Quote:
We are grossly wasting our energy resources … as though their supply was infinite. We must even face the prospect of changing our basic ways of living. This change will either be made on our own initiative in a planned and rational way, or forced on us with chaos and suffering by the inexorable laws of nature.

— Jimmy Carter, 1976

Bushes leadershiup SUCKs

So we have to pay more. $40 for my little 4 cylinder and that wasn't even a full tank.

They thought because he / Cheny are Oil men...they would stabilize the prices....bwahahaha

BhUMMER

:kick:

That's a 1991 CRX HF model.

Went from 17-21mpg to 42-47mpg.

I love saving the gas $$$, but considered the move one of necessity as I commute 32 miles to work daily. Between the cost of gas and the cost of health insurance, my meager COLA raises working in education were not keeping up.

Forced to downsize.

BTW, it is a very FUN car to drive - though more like a go-cart then a real car. And minus airbags, lets just say I drive very defensively!



peace~ :)

I don't understand why people are complaining about the gas prices in the US. It's very expensive here in the UK (just passed the pound barrier a couple of weeks ago for a litre of gas). It's £4.00 a gallon (Over $8 a gallon). Sure, it's a small country but the UK is very conscious of road safety (the driving test compared to the US's is so much harder), and also they put more emphasis on buying cars that are fuel efficient.

I've got a Fiat Panda 4x4 which hauls heavy trailers just fine, despite it being essentially a small SUV. And fuel efficient too!

Your gas prices are SO cheap compared to the UK.

I wonder how the citizens of the UK would enjoy paying $12K a year for HEALTH INSURANCE?

Case in point, the banks here tried to put a "surcharge" on an ATM when you use a card that's not related to that bank's ATM. People were so furious that the banks soon stopped the practice.

Ahh.. to do the same in the US! I wished I didn't have that during university (the bank in my state wasn't in the state I went to uni, so naturally it charged me everytime I used the ATM). If you use an American card on a UK ATM, they warn you that the US might charge you for using the ATM.

1) We can use any major bank ATM without having to worry about being charged to use it (only the "rental" ATM machines that you see in the pubs charge to use it)

2) We get free health care...

So... the high gas prices are just about bearable. Although, I'm seeing a spate of people who are pissed off about it being past the pound barrier on the news.

And I do think that the current price increase in the US is a good thing. So sue me!

Plus, if the US had universal health care, it would be bearable with the gas price increase.

Bush is like a Louis the 17th...full of shit...

Jeep Patriot gets 20mpg city and its a 4WD SUV. The CVT Trans makes a big difference.

Probably $3.15 last time I filled up.

Suburban Chicago.

Gas that much there? Damn....you guys are not far behind us here in Hawaii....and our oil gatta come 1,000s of miles.

Oil up them bikes...cheaper.

and one that does! Moral - never, EVER let just anyone become POTUS! Specially if they have ties to war and energy!

public transportation, correct?

The only reason I ask is because I work in an office building in a city with a good public transportation system, yet hear my fellow co-workers with huge trucks complain about having to pay enormous amounts of money to fill them up.

sporadic....but still, it hurts when gas went up so fast under Bush/GOP

Nobody cared when the software engineers all lost their jobs and/or their lives were destroyed a few years ago. But maybe the Dem congress will try to turn things around somehow. Couldn't be any worse that what happened in my chosen field.

I hope your field improves...sounds like high tech stuff...

Them stagecoach dudes lost out too when the horseless carriage became the norm. Social/technical evolution I suppose.

Wish you well....

One can be left scarred by the experience so to speak, psychologically and financially, and I think that is what they want, for everyone to feel and become powerless. I understand the cliche, 'what doesn't kill you makes you stringer', but the folks in control just want to hurt us period, everyone, one industry at a time.

unscrupulous leaders...ya would think this would change...but sadly....not yet

money. A damn shame.

We bought a Mazda Protege in 2001--it's a 98 model and gets very decent gas mileage. only car in the house.

When we lived in SEattle, we generally took the bus or walked everywhere and rarely used the car. When we did have to fill it up, it could be on fumes and I would STRUGGLE to get $20 in it. Generally $17 would fill 'er up.

Now we live in the boonies, still one car, but don't have the benefit of any public transportation or walkable conditions (thankfully the 6 inches of snow we got the other day melted, finally). We do use the car more than we did in Seattle, and still get very decent gas mileage.

Now when I fill up at Costco (the cheapest place around here, at least), I can't get by for under $30, sometimes more depending on how much gas costs. The last time we filled up it was $3.21 or so. When we got the car in 2001, gas was between $1.19 and $1.35...those are the numbers that stick out in my head, at least.

Sigh.