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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:09 PM
Original message
What to do if you can't make your mortgage payment.
I'm a realtor and have helped clients with this, so I know it can be done.

If you find that you can’t make your mortgage payment the first thing to do is contact your lender BEFORE your payment is late. If it’s a short term issue most lenders will grant a reprieve and allow you to skip up to three payments and add them to the end of the loan.

If it’s too late for that and you’re facing foreclosure talk to your lender about a “short sale”. Many lenders will let you sell your home for less than you owe on it and take the loss because it’s cheaper than foreclosing. Foreclosure takes a long time during which there is no cash flow against the loan and attorney’s fees can run as much as $25,000. The end result is you are out from under the loan and don’t have a foreclosure on your credit history. Your credit will still suck but not as badly or as long.

If it’s too late for that and you’re in the credit re-build mode get a pre-paid credit card, one whose credit limit is set by a deposit you make to the card-holder. A debit card dosn't count. Use it once a month to buy something small like a tank of gas (small?). Pay it immediately, never carry a balance forward. Lather rinse and repeat. Each payment is recorded on your report as “paid as agreed”. A year’s worth of paid-as-agreed helps re-establish you as someone who pays your bills. It won’t wash a foreclosure off your report but it helps reduce the time it matters.

If you're foreclosure (or bankruptcy or divorce or whatever) is behind you a bit and you're now financially recovered with some paid as agreed history you can boost your credit worthiness with a lender by writing a letter explaining why you had trouble, what you've done to make sure it doesn't happen again and provide some proof of payment stability. Borrowing money is still a person to person event. I did this for a woman who divorced and was stuck with a two year old dismissed bankruptcy, a car repo and half a dozen defaulted credit cards. I'll admit the letter was a work of art, but she was able to get a loan at near an "A" credit rate.

Best of luck to any who need this advice.
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Fierce Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
1. This is the single most useful post I've ever seen on DU.
Thanks!
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Bryan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
2. K &R
Thanks for the tips!
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HCE SuiGeneris Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
3. Great advice. K & R
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LakeSamish706 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
4. I agree, Great Thread and super advice... Thanks, many will use this. n/t
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calimary Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 02:11 AM
Response to Reply #4
80. No kidding! This isn't just a post, it's a public service!
I found, in my own situation, that it ALWAYS is better to COMMUNICATE!!!

I had this weird experience when I was still at the AP. I was using some of the money from expense reimbursements - LOTS of mileage and parking fees and other things that I paid out ahead of time, for which company then reimbursed me. Sometimes those checks would be pretty nice and allowed me a little spending money from time to time.

But then, they stopped. VERY unusual reason. The first Gulf War has broken out. The guy at the home office in Washington DC whose job it was (among other things) to sign off on the expense forms and receipts we all submitted every week got sent to Riyadh to coordinate war coverage. Things like expense reimbursement forms were a low priority item and just sort of fell by the wayside, since they didn't really replace him as far as clerical stuff back at the home office. But in the meantime, I'd charged a few things and found myself without the regular reimbursement checks from which I ordinarily covered my monthly bills.

So I wound up calling the credit office for a couple of these and explaining this rawther - um - unorthodox predicament, sheepishly, and asking for a little patience. Each time, the person on the other end of the phone actually got kind of a kick out of it - this was one excuse they'd never heard before and it was actually pretty legitimate. After all, everybody knew about the war to drive Saddam out of Kuwait. I was told more than once that because I'd had a consistent track record of paying "as agreed" every month, they were willing to let me slide. And in each case they wrote up my explanation on my record so there wouldn't be some black mark recorded against me.

It's REALLY important to communicate. If they don't hear from you, they take that as an automatic "fuck you" and your credit report suffers accordingly.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:18 PM
Response to Original message
5. Thank you for posting this.
I'm going through divorce right now. Both attorneys-hers and mine, along with Consumer Credit Counseling agreed that since her income is lower she would qualify for Chapter 7 and is filing right now for that. She's still living in the house and the mortgage holder is aware of the impending Chapter 7. What'll happen to the house right now is up in the air.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:23 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Selling property during a bankruptcy is a complicated issue and
varies from state to state. Make damn sure you're realtor knows how to handle it and interacts with your bankruptcy attorney and the bankruptcy trustee. If there's a dispute between realtor, the attorney and the trustee go with the trustee (s/he's God at this point). If there is a mistake in the transaction the property can be tied up for a long time in litigation and it may affect the status of your bankruptcy.
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Wapsie B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #6
23. That's just it.
We're upside down on the house and we'd owe a large deficiency payment as a result of any sale by a realtor. I don't believe that in this area we'd get what is currently owed on it. Another sub-prime mortgage here. I think it'd be best to let the house go to the bank.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #23
28. I can't emphansize this enough. Check with the trustee. nt
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:24 PM
Response to Original message
7. What do I now that I realize my mortgage payment..
is being tossed in to a black hole every month?

My home is losing value faster than I can pay off the mortgage.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:28 PM
Response to Reply #7
9. Only matters if you want to sell it or borrow against it
If your house was worth the mortgage payment to YOU as a price for a place to live then it still is. Hopefully we can discount the notion that it never was worth it to you! Housing trends are not permanent and that includes this - regionally dependent - decline.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #9
14. How do you know it isn't permanent?
I've seen no change in the trend in 5 years.

I'd like to move into a smaller house, but I guess I can stay for awhile longer since I'm stuck.
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dmallind Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Reply #14
26. Because nothing is in economics


In fact come to think of it outside economics too. What was that little legend about the king who commissioned his greatest philosophers to come up with a simple statement that was true in all circumstances?

I've seen plenty of change in 5 years too. I'm pretty sure home prices rose in many places and quite probably nationally after 2002 (anedotal but market-rate example: I bought in suburban St Paul in 2004 for $376K and sold for $424K in 06). In fact many areas including where I am selling in the next few months - continue to show small increases in existing home prices, so it's not even a universal trend now.

BTW before anyone leaps mightily to the wrong conclusion I move a lot for job reasons - not to flip houses for profit.

Is it bad where decline is more notable? Absolutely yes. I would be doing my damnedest to stay put if I lived in San Diego or Boston in a home I had not owned for a long time right now. But even there it's almost certainly not permanent.
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #9
68. Amen to that!
"If your house was worth the mortgage payment to YOU as a price for a place to live then it still is. "

We've lost sight of fact that our house payments (for those for who have them and can afford them) are payments for shelter - equity is just a bonus.

If the amount your house cost you over the period between when you bought it and you sold it (all payments to date + points + fees + interest + insurance + taxes + repairs/improvements - tax write-off for interest) is the same or less than you would have paid for comparable shelter during the same period (rent + renter's insurance + cost of any moves you may have been forced to make - renter's tax credit if you are fortunately enough to live a state that has one) than you didn't lose money on the house even if you sell it for the same or less than you paid for it. Your true net is either 0 or a gain (especially if you can write off the "loss" if you sell for less than what you paid).
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yardwork Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:59 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. The cost of renting goes up every year, too.
If possible, it's best to lock in a fixed interest rate that is comfortably affordable. Even if you lose your job, you are probably still better off in your house with that fixed mortgage every month, then out competing in the wilderness for a safe, reasonably comfortable apartment at an affordable rate.

I understand that not everybody has this option, and that folks make decisions based on the best information they have but then circumstances change drastically, like a divorce, high medical bills, forced move to another part of the country, etc.

My heart goes out to everyone going through this, and I hope that everyone recovers and does well.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
10. If you can make the payment keep doing so.
There will be a recovery, trust me. I personally think things will hit bottom within a year, go stagnant another year while inventory is sold off and values will grow again after that.

Here in Texas there was a housing recession in the early 80's and my home lost 5% of its value after making three year's payments. Two years later it was back in the black so to speak.

If you can't make the payments, talk to your lender about the short sale.
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tridim Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. I don't have any problem making the payments..
It's just seems like this "investment" will never pay off, probably by (BushCo) design.

My parents had it so easy. Every home they owned appreciated by a significant amount, then BAM I buy my first house in 2000 and it fucking depreciates from day one and hasn't stopped in 5 years.

Sorry, but I just felt like complaining. This housing/mortgage crunch isn't just affecting people who can't pay their mortgage. It's affecting everyone.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:28 PM
Response to Reply #13
31. Consider it rent. Think about it, if you rented a place as nice as
where you're living every dime would be gone. As it is the IRS is subsidizing 30% (or your tax bracket) of the interest and if you sell it at a loss you'll get some return that you wouldn't get if you were renting.

I know it's little comfort and that unlike renting you can't just move because you can't pay off the loan if you sell at a loss but I feel your pain and just wanna' help.
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truedelphi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:58 PM
Response to Reply #31
47. You are earning more good deed marks
For every posting you make - I am sure people are being helped by this.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 02:09 AM
Response to Reply #10
78. The only constant is change.
Here in L.A., we had a downturn in housing prices in the early 90s thanks to less military and aeronautics spending. In '94 (I believe) there was a sizable earthquake. It looked pretty bleak for the housing market. Bargains were abundant, profits on housing sales were not. But, as we all know, the housing market skyrocketed over the early and mid 2000s. So, it is always up and down. What goes up must go down, but also vice versa.
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:26 PM
Response to Original message
8. Just BIG thanks for this! nt
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:31 PM
Response to Original message
11. I think I read somwhere
that a short sale leaves you liable for a hefty tax bill. Is this true?
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:38 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. Yes, it can. The difference between the purchase price and the
discounted loan (loan value - short sale) may be seen as short term capitol gains or some other form of un-earned income.

Only advice here is to get more than one market analysis (if the resale value is comparable to the short sale price) and argue that there was no real gain. It's not easy arguing with the IRS, so I wish you luck.

I've done this for a bankruptcy when the trustee thought the property was worth $10k more than the market would bear.
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Mojorabbit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #15
77. Thanks
for the information. Luckily I have a low interest fifteen year mortgage with seven years left. I know so many people though who are in dire straits.
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satya Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. Be careful, though, a short sale may cause you to be subject to additional income taxes.
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 01:42 PM by satya
Disclaimer: I am not a tax pro, this is based on what I've read elsewhere.

The amount of debt forgiven by the bank in a short sale may be treated as income, and you will owe the IRS the taxes on that amount, even though you received no cash. So you're out of debt to the bank, but now owe the IRS.

Please check with a tax pro before going this route.

And thanks for a very helpful (and timely) post, flamin lib!

Edited to add:

There is legislation pending to address this:

http://www.homesalessandiego.com/blog/short-sale-tax-relief-introduced-in-congress/
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:25 PM
Response to Reply #12
70. EVERYONE READING THIS THREAD SHOULD READ THE LINK IN SATYA'S POST
There are huge tax implications with short sales.

Banks 1099 borrowers for the part of the loan they don't pay.

Get tax and legal advice before agreeing to a short sale. Whether it makes sense will depend on your circumstances.
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alstephenson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:39 PM
Response to Original message
16. Here's another source for homeownership preservation assistance:
The Homeownership Preservation Foundation: Their 24/7 "hotline" is 888-995-HOPE.

From their website:

About 888-995-HOPE

The 888-995-HOPE hotline has a single mission: to help more homeowners avoid foreclosure. Provided by the Homeownership Preservation Foundation, the HOPE Hotline has provided advice and education to more than 100,000 homeowners since 2002.

The Foundation is not a mortgage company. We are an independent, third-party resource that has assembled a not-for-profit network dedicated to helping homeowners avoid foreclosure.

The help we offer is free.

Financial support for the Homeowner's HOPE Hotline is provided by the Homeownership Preservation Foundation, a Minneapolis-based 501(c)(3) nonprofit.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:48 PM
Response to Reply #16
20. thanks for adding to the resources nt
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ET Awful Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:41 PM
Response to Original message
17. In addition . . .
Steer clear of places like "Lexington Lawfirm" who offer to help you remove negative marks on your credit reports. They don't do anything you can't do yourself via certified mail to the three credit reporting agencies.

Familiarize yourself with the rules and regulations pertaining to credit reporting and collections. (Visit creditboards.com for some very good info).

Stay far far away from so-called rebuilder credit cards that have high monthly and annual fees (First Premiere being a prime example). There are other rebuilder cards that might have a fairly high fee but offer a good credit rebuilding product (Orchard Bank is a fairly decent organization). There are also many store cards that are very easy to get and will add positive tradelines to your credit report (and consequently increase your FICO score in short order). Target is one example of a fairly easy account to get (another is Crown Jewelers, an online only jewelry store with fairly cheezy merchandise, but they'll give you a $1500 credit line with no credit check which will report as such).

Know how FICO scoring works. It's tough, and the actual formula is a closely guarded secret by Fair Isaac, but some general guidelines are easy to track down. For instance:

Your utilization:available credit ratio on revolving accounts makes up approximately 30% of your FICO score. If you total up all your credit cards and all your balances, make sure that if at all possible your balances total under 1/3 of your total available credit. Your FICO scores will show a very quick increase simply by proving that you aren't using all the credit available to you.

Also, please ignore the rampant bad information telling you that having too much available credit hurts you. That is NOT always the case. Remember that available credit is not debt and you'll go far.

Another thing to remember - every time you apply for credit, an inquiry is added to your credit report, too many inquiries can lower your FICO score (this accounts for approx. 10% of your overall FICO score).

The biggest contributing factor to a high FICO score is timely payments. One 30 day late payment can decrease your score by a HUGE amount. I know someone who had a score of 805, he missed one credit card payment accidentally, the payment was only $45. His score dropped by 60 points just from that one late payment.

There is a wealth of good information out there (creditboards.com is my favorite resource, so I'll recommend it twice in this post :)).

Remember - if someone wants to charge you to help fix your credit, they aren't going to be much help, they're out to make a buck first and to help you second. They won't do anything for you that you can't do for yourself with a little research, typing and postage.

Get your REAL FICO scores. You can't get these from "freecreditreport.com" and the like. They all sell different scores that do NOT reflect the real FICO score at all. The only place you can get your true FICO score is myfico.com. It's run in cooperation with Fair Isaac and will provide the real FICO score from all three of the major credit bureaus.

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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #17
22. That's good information.
I'm a mortgage lender and I can't stress enough how important it is to work on your credit report AFTER a bankruptcy. I've seen people file chapter 7 and have damn near "A" credit 2 years out of the BK. Staying on top of the report and making sure the charged off debts get put in the proper column can be important. Fannie Mae will take a chapter 7 two years after discharge but the automated system will not like the deal if the debts are still in the "open collection" column. This can be done by the consumer but it takes some work.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:51 PM
Response to Reply #17
24. Thanks for adding to the resources. The three credit agencies
are required to give you one free report a year. Everyone should take advantage of that. If you can't read it, take it to your bank and ask a loan officer for help--it's free.
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:03 PM
Response to Reply #17
56. More good info.
:thumbsup:
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ima_sinnic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:36 PM
Response to Reply #17
60. the forums at myfico.com are a great resource
plus myfico.com offers several different credit score-monitoring packages, or just the scores themselves, as well as a Suze Orman kit that looks sort of interesting. I am midway thru a 2-yr plan to clean up my credit and have gotten really good information at myfico.com
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drmeow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:50 PM
Response to Reply #17
74. My credit score is lower
because the number of credit cards and installment payment plans I have is TOO low - stupid system. I still have an excellent rating but it still burns me to see that "your score is lower because" statement basically saying my credit rating is lower because I'm not willing to go further into debt!
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mzmolly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:42 PM
Response to Original message
18. Kind of you to share this info.
I live in a "burb" in the Midwest. A historic and appealing town. When we first bought here 9 years ago, houses were on the market for two weeks tops. Now they are listed, re-listed and vacant. It's really frightening.

Thanks.
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slackmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:47 PM
Response to Original message
19. Recommended!
:toast:
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. And for single moms and low income here is a place that is great
for helping you buy a home with a FIXED rate and little or no down payment.

https://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:53 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Check with your local city government as well. My city has a
grant's management division that offers grants for rehabilitating homes and for buying/rent assistance. It's a well kept secret because demand far out-strips grant money.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:03 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Do you know anyone that's had any experience with them?
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 02:06 PM by Kingshakabobo
They also, apparently, will do refinance buyouts for people in trouble with their predatory loans - the deal has to make sense at the lower rate which, often times, it will - especially if you take someone down from 10-15% to 5%..

I'm a lender and have run across them once through a client I was competing for. See my post below.
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:46 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. Yes my wife before we were married. Great orginization
She bought a 120,000.00 home w/ nothing down and 5.9% fixed 30 year.

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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 01:59 PM
Response to Original message
27. Have you heard of "NACA" yet?
I'm a lender and I ran across a client that met a NACA rep. at an open house. NACA is a non-profit mortgage company. Apparently,they get their loan commitments/funding from the big lenders (citi, bofa, countrywide) by shaming them for their predatory practices.

I'm not real crazy about a non-profit advertising a rate of 5% if they are going to be my purchase money competition (I'm not a communist after all). I'm not TOO worried about it as you have to jump through some substantial hoops to get your money but I think they might serve the "bail out" refi market well. I've seen a few people in the last several months that have been caught in the rate adjustment crunch and I haven't been able to help so I referred them here. I haven't received any feedback yet.





https://www.naca.com/index_main.jsp
NACA is a national non-profit community advocacy and homeownership organization providing the best homeownership program in America .

Home Save Program

Homeownership should be about stability without the fear of major increases in your mortgage payments. The foreclosure rate in the United States is soaring, and huge numbers of people also are saddled with mortgages that are or will become unaffordable in the near future. This is having a tremendous impact on families and neighborhoods and NACA is committed to fighting this devastation.

NACA’s Home Save Program is committed to assisting Member’s in every way possible to lower the mortgage payment to an amount that is affordable for the term of the mortgage. The NACA process considers the individual characteristics for each borrower but provides a framework and standardization to provide unprecedented home save solutions for tens of thousands of homeowners.

The Homeowner needs to following the below process:
STEP ONE:
Complete a Mortgage Submission on our website at www.naca.com
STEP TWO:
Attend a NACA Workshop to learn about the process and options.
STEP THREE:
Most importantly, meet with a NACA Mortgage Consultant who works with you throughout the process.
STEP FOUR:
Your file is referred to a NACA underwriter who then takes over the application.
STEP FIVE:
The completed file is submitted to the lender. This is through NACA’s paperless state of the art software system.
NACA’s home save options for you that are based on the terms of what you can afford, with a cascade of options as follows:

PAYMENT PLAN:
Appropriate if you have an affordable mortgage but have experienced a short term financial setback and can become current within 12 months.

MODIFICATION:
Works if you have an affordable payment but have experienced a long-term financial set back and cannot become current in 12 months. The loan is modified to include the past due amounts.

NACA REFINANCE:
This is for homeowners with a high rate and unaffordable mortgage who can meet the Refinance Eligibility Criteria (i.e. Loan-to-value, payments, etc.). NACA provides one mortgage product, the Refinance Product that is the best in America providing a below-market fixed rate interest, no points, no fees or repayment penalties. NACA has committed one billion dollars to help homeowners who have an unaffordable mortgage keep their homes in the wake of the subprime crash.

RESTRUCTURE:
This is the most powerful tool for many homeowners to save their home. We evaluate what you can afford: looking at your net income, deducting only the required debts, housing expenses and $200 for unforeseen expenses. This results in a payment that you can afford. This payment is the fixed figure or the mortgage payment (i.e. PITI). The two variables are the interest rate and outstanding mortgage amount. Servicers/Investors would reduce either or both to achieve the mortgage payment over the long-term

All of the above options provide for an affordable mortgage payment over the long-term. In fact the restructuring has sometimes lowered the fixed interest rate to less than a NACA Refinance. As opposed to the NACA Refinance, a Restructure is available throughout the country and is not based on factors such as equity, debt ratios and credit score.

We will try to assist everyone with either a NACA Refinance or working with your lender. However, we cannot assist you if you own investment properties. If you have an auction date or need immediate assistance, email NACA at HomeSave@naca.com .

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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:51 PM
Response to Reply #27
34. I understand your feelings about having to compete.
But I don't think they are going after your clientele. I would assume you don't put many single moms with very little to no down payment in many homes. I would think they are creating future clients for you buy establishing someones ability to manage a mortgage.
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Kingshakabobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:48 PM
Response to Reply #34
46. I'm really not worried about them.
Actually, I'm glad they're around for people that need a refi bail out. As for purchase money, I doubt many people (and realtors) are going to want to jump through those hoops to get money - at least not in my market. Also, when you calculate the $50 dollar monthly membership fee, the spread isn't that much.

I'm doing a lot of deals using the City of Chicago "City Mortgage" loans. The city is offering a 4% gift, below market rate, and reduced PMI rate. I'm closing one next week - the customers are getting 13K from the city.
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Lochloosa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 09:00 AM
Response to Reply #46
83. Morning Kick
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IndyOp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:08 PM
Response to Reply #27
58. NACA looks really good - it looks, to me, like all companies should in
terms of being straightforward and fair. Great information!
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FatDave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:03 PM
Response to Original message
30. A lot of great info in this thread
Thanks to all who have shared. I bought my current house from a person who was short selling. Until then I wasn't even aware of it as an option.
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tandot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 02:34 PM
Response to Original message
32. K & R for the great advise
Prices here in Northern California dropped significantly. We feel really bad for people losing their houses. However, we'll be finally able to afford and buy our first home (we are in our forties). The mortgage will be slightly higher than the rent we are paying now (about 20% of our monthly paycheck). And, we are only considering a 30 year fixed rate mortgage.

My brother-in-law has a adjustable rate mortgage and they can hardly make the payment. They had to move because he got a job in another county. They couldn't sell the house for the price they still owe. Now they are renting their condo out and have to rent an apartment where they work now. The rent they get for their condo just covers half of their mortgage. Their lender is trying to restructure their loan.

Good luck to all of you!
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
35. my mortgage
is funded by the USDA and is a part of the Farmers Home Loan Program(?). Our interest rate is tied to our income. We are currently paying 5.25%. We were unable to get a mortgage through a standard bank. But as first-time home buyers, we qualified for a low-income subsidy and down payment assistance.

We jumped through hoops for 14 months, but in the end we have a new construction Zero Net Energy house rated Leed Silver + 3 acres! Would never have been able to do it without the help of many organizations and companies that donated services... nonetheless, it can be done!

Of course, shoveling the long driveway kinda sucks...

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Snarkturian Clone Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:46 PM
Response to Original message
36. Thanks I may need this post
sometime. Hope not though.

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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:48 PM
Response to Original message
37. Bookmarked.n THANK YOU. n/t
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:49 PM
Response to Original message
38. My wife and I bought way smaller than we could have
Purchased a 130K condo when I was getting pressured by lenders to look in the 250's. I hate my little condo its in a bad neighborhood, the windows fog up, and its tight for the four of us (900sqft). But when my family hit health issues last year and I had to look into daycare I suddenly loved my low payments. There is no way I could have absorbed the cost of daycare if I had bought 'where I should have'..
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emilyg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:48 PM
Response to Reply #38
61. You are smart.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 04:01 PM
Response to Reply #61
95. If I were smart I would not have bought at all ;)
Sometimes God protects fools for his glory...

I let my pride of not wanting my kids to be stuck in an apartment (for instance I dont want to worry if a paint color is too dark to go over or blah blah). Because of that I bought the most affordable house I could..

I did get an added bonus when I changed jobs. I had a 25 mile commute when we first moved into the house and gas was at a 'high' of about 2$. My new job is 3 miles down the road with an on site daycare :)

After the holidays we will be getting a second car (something small and with good gas mileage) so the wife can run her daytime errands in something a little more economical than our minivan. When the summer comes I might even hook up the kid cart and bike my kids into work..
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Momgonepostal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #38
86. We are in a similar situation...
family of 4, in a condo of little less than 1000 sf. I've been really wanting to upgrade to something bigger, but now am glad we haven't been able to. Any house we bought in the last couple of years would now be worth less than what we paid for it.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #86
93. Yea Ive lost some value in my home
But I'm not *quite* upside down yet, and worse come to worse itll rent for about 2% over my mortgage payments. Im hoping my wife and I can get back on our feet in the next 24 months so we can take advantage of some of the deals that will be out there.

I have friends who bought 400K houses for a 'steal' at 370 in what seems like the closing days before the housing prices really started to stagnate/fall. It has not been that bad here in the twin cities, if you are not hooked into an ARM housing has stayed stron enough to keep from being a real worry but we will see how long that last.
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rox63 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:11 AM
Response to Reply #38
87. I also bought low, and I'm glad I did
I was approved for up to $220K, but I decided to buy a $150K condo instead. That was about 2.5 years ago. Because of the housing bust (I'm in eastern Mass), my condo is currently only worth about $130K, and I owe about $140K on it. So I guess I need to sit tight. Still, my payments are only slightly higher than I would be paying for rent on a comparable apartment. And I get that nice big tax deduction each year on the interest. So it's not all bad. I will have a problem in a couple of years, though, when my ARM is due to adjust. (I have a 5-year fixed ARM) Originally, I wasn't planning on staying in the condo for more than 5 years. But things change, and I may be here for a while longer than that. But I'm hoping to refinance before it adjusts. Right now, if I refinanced, my payments would go up by $100+ per month, because my intro rate was only 5.35%, and rates have risen since then.
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DadOf2LittleAngels Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #87
94. I bought in 2005 and would not touch an ARM with a 10 foot pole
I could have armed in at 5% but truth be told I kinda knew it was a bad time to buy. I went ahead because we were pregnant and living from apt to apt every two years with a kid is not what I wanted. I ended up getting a fixed 5.6% after shopping a bit.
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 04:52 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R
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we can do it Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
40. Thank You, I'm A New Realtor and Have A Friend In This Mess
Would it be ok if I PM you with any questions?
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:30 PM
Response to Reply #40
44. Of course, I'll share what I can. nt
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Clanfear Donating Member (260 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:47 PM
Response to Original message
41. That is great advice.
I agree with everything you said. Thanks for spelling that all out for people. A lot of people are in the dark as to what to do when things turn South and usually they avoid their lender instead of talking with them.
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Hoof Hearted Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:50 PM
Response to Original message
42.  K&R! This is the most useful and productive post I've seen for a long time
Thanks for the great info.
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 05:55 PM
Response to Original message
43. Thank you--this is the kind of thing that makes me love this place so much.
So many people with such vastly different expertise and talent.

I know someone in a big fix now due to medical bills. I'm going to pass this on to them. They are my next-door neighbors and just really nice people. I would hate for them to go.

Thank you!

:toast:
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 06:38 PM
Response to Original message
45. Some things I didn't mention in the OP.
Once you begin talking to your lender about Short Sale, they may become very inventive with ways to keep you in your home. Trust me, they DO NOT want to own your house.

There is also Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure where you sign the house over to the lender and just walk away. Assuming this is the best solution for both of you it leaves your credit clear of a foreclosure and saves the lender attorney fees.

Keep in mind that a lot of this advice is state specific and some places aren't hurting as much as others.

Also keep in mind that in Real Estate EVERYTHING IS NEGOTIABLE. If you're about to lose your home and you can't do anything about it look at it as a position of strength. They can't eat ya'.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 07:03 PM
Response to Reply #45
48. Awesome
Great advice
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blondeatlast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 07:04 PM
Response to Reply #45
49. No economics wonk am I, but I think the last thing the banks want is
hundreds or thousands of foreclosed properties. If the market were thriving, I can see them wanting to jump on it, but it seems that 10X the foreclosures (an estimate I'd seen on another DU thread by one in a position to know) would be a pain in the tuckus for them, too.

When we needed to file bankruptcy over medical bills, we did the Deed in Lieu of Foreclosure on a car loan and it saved our credit.

Thanks for these--if it doesn't help one of us directly, it will likely help someone close to us somehow.
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leftist_not_liberal Donating Member (408 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:00 PM
Response to Original message
50. In Australia
a person facing foreclosure sees his home go up for auction on the courthouse steps.

So what's different?

The bidders do not know the amount owed on the house.

Any monies obtained via the sale over and above mortgage value go by law to the person foreclosed upon.

I just wanted to mention what things are like outside the belly of the beast where some decency and fairness still remain despite the cancer of global capitalism.

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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:13 PM
Response to Original message
51. So burning it down for the insurance isn't the answer?

Man was I way off.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:23 PM
Response to Reply #51
53. Well, no.
Number one the insurance will pay to rebuild and will be discounted to the age of the home. Unless you have paid for replacement value you're likely to be short a bit.

Number two, everybody concerned frowns on arson. Somehow the local constabulary has no sense of humor whatsoever about such things. I have a family member who can testify to that. Hmmm testify, maybe a bad choice of words.

At any rate you still own the mortgage whether you have a house or not.
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TroubleMan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:31 PM
Response to Reply #53
54. LOL....I didn't think I needed to include the sarcasm tag on that one.

I wasn't being serious. However, thank you for the serious reply. Foreclosures are gonna be a huge problem in this country, and you're providing good info.
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Quantess Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:57 PM
Response to Reply #53
92. Flamin lib says, no flamin house.
Got it. ;)
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DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 08:18 PM
Response to Original message
52. Thank You 'flamin lib' Very informative post and well worth saving! ..K&R
I feel so bad for anyone losing their home...I did a little research to hopefully add something ... http://www.businessweek.com/the_thread/hotproperty/archives/2007/03/the_new_exit_st.html
"some experts are now advocating a “short sale.”

---find a real estate agent willing to work for a smaller commission (which makes the bank a little more willing to absorb the loss), and you’ll also need to scale back your own spending. Putting expensive jewelry on your credit card will make a bank less inclined to do you any favors on the sale of your home. And be prepared that if your bank does absorb the loss, the IRS might treat that as taxable income and you’ll have to come up with the cash to cover the taxes.'



--"Of course, the better option is to find some way to stay in the house—by first, seeing if the lender is willing to restructure the loan, or forgo a couple of monthly payments to help you get back on your feet. Apparently, more and more lenders are willing to make accommodations to avoid taking the property back. Banks hate to take over homes, especially in a declining market, so you shouldn’t underestimate the willingness of a bank to make concessions."


Also- Check out the Reader Comments-- This issue effects everyone--
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Maestro Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:01 PM
Response to Original message
55. Great advice. My MIL is trying to rebuild her life and credit.
This is good advice. Thanks again.
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bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:05 PM
Response to Original message
57. Great post! n/t
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trashcanistanista Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 09:13 PM
Response to Original message
59. Excellent advise.
I had no idea there were remedies. K&R
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:05 PM
Response to Original message
62. A short sale is taxed as income. I wonder how many people would rather go into foreclusure
than have to owe the government 20-30% of the 50k-100k difference between the amount you own the bank and the amount they sell the house for at foreclosure.


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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #62
63. a short sale would be a loss to the taxpayer, not a gain
Edited on Mon Dec-03-07 11:09 PM by Lex

wouldn't it?







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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:17 PM
Response to Reply #63
64. You're taxed on the value of the loan the bank forgave.
That prevents rich people from getting income by, say, Enron loaning it's CEO 100,000,000, and then telling the CEO that it doesn't have to pay the loan back.

So, if you buy a house with a 500,000 mortgage and sell it and can only pay back 400,000 to the lender, boom, you have 100,000 in taxable income.

I'm not sure how you'd benefit from cap gains losses, in this situation, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be much. But maybe there's a CPA out there who could run through it...
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Lex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:23 PM
Response to Reply #64
67. Best to sell it for at least what the mortgage payoff is
if possible, then.

Sometimes the lender will accept a "deed in lieu" of foreclosure where they take title and possession of the house, cancel the mortgage (and don't foreclose).




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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #67
71. Whether you want to sell for less than owe is a question borrowers need to discuss
with tax and legal professionals.

I suspect that there might be tax consequences of a deed in lieu of foreclosure too (measured by appraised value? by actual resale price?).
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:22 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. Read the link satya posted upthread...
...http://www.homesalessandiego.com/blog/short-sale-tax-relief-introduced-in-congress/...

which has some very important information for anyone considering a short sale.
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RainDog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:17 PM
Response to Original message
65. this is so good of you
to try to help out others here.

I'm not facing such a situation but I wonder about the remark about a regional crisis. Do you think this crisis is chiefly along the costal areas of the U.S...and high spec. markets like Las Vegas or areas for people with second homes?

What is the best source of info about this bubble pop for the general public to be able to track what's going on?

On the link someone provided to an article on short sales, one commenter had been tho a housing bust in Canada (Alberta) and also noted this situation doesn't favor a bull market attitude either.

What does your industry expect, best and worse cases and somewhere in between?
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:46 PM
Response to Reply #65
72. It's very regional and even at the local level it can vary subdivision
to subdivision.

My own expectations are that the market will continue to decline for about another year and then level out until inventories become exhausted. It will take about six months to a year to sell off and then the market will reverse. It depends on how much mortgage money is available after the inventory sells off.

I don't think we'll see another boom like this one unless the lenders continue to be completely stupid like they were with the sub-prime market.

I'm not a soothsayer and I don't play one on TV so take this with a grain of salt and call me in a year.
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remember2000forever Donating Member (594 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:16 AM
Response to Reply #72
82. South Florida, Land Of Foreclosures!
I am a Realtor who has taken a second job working as a Property Marketing Manager for a Real Estate Attorney. My Realty work is very slow but the Short Sale business with the Attorney is Booming! I'm working 10 hours a day and we get 10 listings a week for Short Sales. It is so sad to see so many people losing their homes. My advice, if you are in this position, is to work with a Real Estate Attorney. The Banks seem to respond better to the numerous communications needed to complete a Short Sale if a Law Office is involved. Realtors, such as myself, are taking Short Sale Courses to try to get up to speed. Much better to work under the umbrella of an Attorney.
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Dukkha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:24 PM
Response to Original message
69. wish I knew about the short sale option
my condo has been on the market for 1 year now. I only got one offer and it would've cost me $3k to lose it, so I had to decline. Now it may be a long time before I get another offer, if any.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Dec-03-07 11:49 PM
Response to Reply #69
73. If you can make the payments keep doing so. A short sale is
not something to be wished for. It will screw up your credit and as posted above there are tax issues to deal with.

Wait it out if you can. Short sales and other remedies are a last resort to minimize damage to your credit. Please note "minimize".
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Not Sure Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:03 AM
Response to Original message
76. I live near you, flamin lib
and I think I found myself a realtor! I'm not in a position where I need any of your great advice, but it's certainly very informative. Should I find myself in a bad situation due to health problems or layoffs or anything like that, I'll be brushing up on this thread again.

By the way, I work in civil engineering (I design residential subdivisions) and even though record foreclosures are expected in the coming year, I'm not anywhere near running out of work. If I didn't get any more work from here on out, I'd be busy until April at the earliest, so maybe the developers know something the rest of us don't. Maybe it won't be that bad.
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flamin lib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 10:16 AM
Response to Reply #76
84. Developers purchase properties years in advance of building.
And as I said, it's a regional issue and even within regions there are pockets of value growth. In this area houses under $130k are selling okay but mortgage money is hard to find without a 5-10% down payment. Homes over $400k are selling well too.

Entry level subdivisions are hurting real bad as that's where most of the subprime no down loans were made.

Over all Texas is still rolling along at 2-5% appreciation.
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Not Sure Donating Member (334 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:06 PM
Response to Reply #84
96. It's true that developers buy years in advance,
but by the time it gets to my desk, it's a couple months away from construction. Now, what you've said about entry level subdivisions is true (at least in my experience), since every one in DFW I'm working on is geared toward the builders' midrange products. I have one in Houston that is for the ridiculously wealthy, though.

Anyway, I can live with the appreciation we're seeing around here. I have a big lot in a good location (mediocre house, though), so over enough time I'll probably do alright.
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 02:10 AM
Response to Original message
79. Actually, if you can't make your payments, you need to talk to a lawyer.
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wundermaus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 03:09 AM
Response to Original message
81. The current housing market is a scam.
Outrageous prices for homes and the selling of money to purchase these homes for many more times than it's cash price is a money lending scam that is as corrupt and criminal as anything imaginable. Make it illegal to borrow money to purchase a home and watch the financial house of cards implode. It's a lie and yet fools can't wait to buy into it. The buying and selling of homes has become the poor man's stock market and they will fall prey to the same power player strategies and manipulations. Think you can bank on your home? Think it is insurance against inflation? Think the boom / bust cycle it a thing of the past? This is the big setup and the sting is going to be a dozy. The fleecing of America, the raping of the working class. Think you can play to win? It's a fixed game... suckers.
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Momgonepostal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 11:05 AM
Response to Original message
85. We're not in that boat, but thank you anyway!
I don't think most people who don't work in finance or real estate really know this stuff, so thank you for your post. You may have helped a lot of people today.

I live in one of the parts of the country that has a high rate of foreclosures per capita, and see daily how tough this can be on people.
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LakeLucerne Donating Member (2 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
88. Excellent
Smartest thing I've read today!
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qb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:39 PM
Response to Original message
89. Thank you!
I should sell soon, but there's no point with two other houses for sale on my street just sitting there. It is good to know I can negotiate with the lender if I get in a bind.
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helderheid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 12:41 PM
Response to Original message
90. Hello from a fellow Realtor!
:hi:

Excellent advice. I've been taking a lot of short sale courses as of late.
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tishaLA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 01:15 PM
Response to Original message
91. What's a pre-paid credit card?
I'm looking it up and all I find is debit cards.
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Rosemary2205 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Dec-04-07 08:10 PM
Response to Reply #91
97. try "secured credit card"
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