Being a mormon should be a campaign issue until 1978 black folks were considered sub-human

http://www.religioustolerance.org/lds_race.htm

Theological foundation for racism in the LDS church:
According to sociologist Amand L. Mauss, a president of the Mormon History Association, the church's racist beliefs originated within protestant denominations from which many Mormons converted. He said in 1998: "Every major Protestant denomination in history has taught that blacks are descendants of Cain and Ham." 1

Cain is described in the book of Genesis of the Hebrew Scriptures (a.k.a. Old Testament) as a son of Adam. Cain was jealous of his brother Abel, because God had rejected Cain's offering, while accepting Abel's. In Genesis 4:8, he is described as having "attacked his brother Abel, and killed him."
Ham is described in Genesis 9 as a son of Noah who had seen his father naked. Ham himself was not punished. But Ham's son, Canaan, was cursed. Genesis 9:25-27:

"Cursed be Canaan! The lowest of slaves will he be to his brothers. He also said, 'Blessed be the Lord, the God of Shem! May Canaan be the slave of Shem. May God extend the territory of Japheth; may Japeth live in the tents of Shem and may Canaan be his slave'."

This became known as the Curse of Ham.

Most Christians found it convenient prior to the 19th century to assume that the Curse of Ham was to continue to all of Ham's African descendents. This justified human slavery.

Protestant denominations in the early 19th century interpreted the Bible as implying that the black race was formed from Cain and Abel's descendents. The Curse of Ham was used extensively prior to the Civil War to justify slavery as a biblically condoned, recognized and regulated practice. The abolition movement caused a great deal of distress among Christians because they had to finally reject slavery as profoundly immoral -- a practice which the Bible accepted as a normal aspect of the culture of the Middle East. They had to wrap their minds around the fact that the Bible taught something that was apparently against the will of God. Beliefs of the inferiority of blacks died a slow death among the leading denominations: Baptists, Methodists, Presbyterians, etc.

However, the LDS church was an exception. The Pearl of Great Price is one of four source texts that are accepted by Mormons as divinely inspired and authoritative scripture --the "Standard Works." The Pearl had specifically prohibited the ordination of anyone who was black or who had even one distant black ancestor. Its teachings could not be easily altered.

Another inspired scripture, according to the LDS, is the Book of Mormon. It discusses the Lamanite race, and how they received dark skins and a degenerate status as punishment:

2 Nephi 5:21-23:

"And he had caused the cursing to come upon them, yea, even a sore cursing, because of their iniquity. For behold, they had hardened their hearts against him, that they had become like unto a flint; wherefore, as they were white, and exceedingly fair and delightsome, that they might not be enticing unto my people the Lord God did cause a skin of blackness to come upon them."

"And thus saith the Lord God: I will cause that they shall be loathsome unto thy people, save they shall repent of their iniquities."

"And cursed shall be the seed of him that mixeth with their seed; for they shall be cursed even with the same cursing. And the Lord spake it, and it was done."

"And because of their cursing which was upon them they did become an idle people, full of mischief and subtlety, and did seek in the wilderness for beasts of prey."

In 2 Nephi 30:6, the the Book of Mormon as originally translated (or written; opinions differ) by Joseph Smith said that if Lamanites accepted the true gospel,

"...their scales of darkness shall begin to fall from their eyes; and many generations shall not pass away among them, save they shall be a white and a delightsome people."

After 1981, the term "white and delightsome" was changed to read "pure" -- an unusual action for a book considered to be inspired by God in its original version. 5

3 Nephi 2:15 reads:

"And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became white like unto the Nephites." 5

Mitt will never fly in the bible-belt.

not republicans.

the response was in regards to the first post stating what fundies believed. Lonestarnot's point is that we shouldn't care whether fundies believe Mormonism is a cult or not.

I hope this clarifies things a bit.

An ignorant and nonsensical post, to be sure.

Maybe too much beer is to blame. That can make my mouth detatch from my brain, so perhaps it explains his post.

I don't understand what gets into people sometimes.

:rofl:

:-)

I just can't believe that so many people (Literally) think the Bible's words are true...

Being a Christian should be a campaign issue. Some denominations/individual churches currently promote subjugation of women, criminalization of abortion, eradication of rights for LGBT people, teaching of creationism/'Intelligent Design' in science classes, etc. (That's :sarcasm: just in case anybody's wondering.)


But thankfully there's no religion test allowed for public office, at least not officially. Unofficially, the majority religion is allowed to make it so only people who practice the majority religion make it to the highest offices. Then they turn around and whine about all of the bashing and persecution they face in our nation. Oh, the irony.

don't officially ban black people from holding their priesthood but in practice all their ministers are white? Sunday morning is still the most segregated hour in America.

Then there's that whole no female priests in Catholicism thing...

That's pretty much what Christianity had to say until the sixties.

an active adult member prior to that date.

really I love coming to a site that I help fund to hear that I should be DISQUALIFIED from holding office because of my religion.

Nice, it gives me all sorts of warm fuzzy feeling </sarcasm>.

where it states any adult member should be disqualified from office.

an adult member of a church which openly discriminated against black people?

Are you assuming that all mormons prior to 1978 were racist?

But religious labels don't necessarily reflect their actual beliefs.

Generally, the answer to your question is yes.

Never respect religion. Always respect people.

That's like a textbook definition of bigotry. But I think you already know that.

Nevermind judging them based upon the content of their character.

Is a measure of character being able to go against one's beliefs?

and as someone who believes in the constitution I do not think it should either. Weather that is an issue for individual voters or not is a different issue. But to bar all mormons from holding office is offensive.

Im discussing weather Mormons should be allowed to hold public office based only on their religion. I already stated up thread that anyone can vote for anyone they want based on how they feel.

And where did anybody say anything about people being allowed to do anything (besides participate in Mormonism)?

8. Yep. This ALONE should completely disqualify anyone who was an active adult member prior to that date.

Though it can literally be interpreted otherwise, I don't think the poster is advocating laws which prohibit anybody from running for office.

"8. Yep. This ALONE should completely disqualify anyone who was an active adult member prior to that date."

"completely disqualify" is not in reference to voting... at least I dont see how it could be taken any other way...

Why don't you ask him/her.

Thank you for being a Democrat. We need more like you. :hi:

as someone who is not a believing member (I consider myself LDS because its my history etc, similar to Jews that are not believes but still identify as Jewish.) I have to stick up for all people. Im gay and mormon so I can see both sides. I also have mixed raced nephews and nieces so Im all to familiar with what any type of bigotry does, including the church's past and present bigotry.

Are they permitted to be priests, bishops or prophets?

Do they get the same reward for living good lives -- their own planets with multiple husbands?

Do they preach or prosletyze?

If not, they're being discriminated against.

bigotry for not being one of them, you can go cry me a river.

Curse of Ham. I suppose you thought it was perfectly ok, huh?

One of the few non-mormons in my JrHS in UT was black and I saw how he was treated. You'll NEVER get me to apologize for how I felt and still feel about that EXTREMELY RACIST religious doctrine.

Oh, BTW - I hate their sexism and patriarchal BS, too. And I'm a descendant of a whole slew of Mormons, so I know what I'm talking about and I know why I don't care for the church's doctrines.

Do you realize the irony of that argument?

the curse of Ham and such BS is, YES, a bigot.

But you go ahead and support that kind of thing.

Article VI states:

"...no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States."

I'll go with that.

Mormons never taught that black people are sub-human. Statements like that make YOU look like the bigot.

First, the Pearl of Great Price is not the source of banning the Priesthood to black people. It came later from Brigham Young.

In fact, the religion's founder, Joseph Smith, did ordain at least one black person to the priesthood and opposed slavery. Both were controversial moves in the 1840's.

What a crock.

joseph smith, magic underwear, polygamy, and all the other goofiness. if you want to believe in all that crap, that's fine....it's a free country. if you want to believe in the tooth fairy that's fine too. i just don't think you're qualified to be president if you're into fairy tales.

as for blacks being subhuman in the mormon church...yeah, i think they finally gave black people souls when they realized brigham young university's football team couldn't compete unless they started letting african americans play on their team.

Because I don't think there is a candidate in the race who claims to hold agnostic or atheistic beliefs. How do you square that with your comment about ALL organized religion being bad, and likened to a fairy tale?

are actually agnostic opportunists. Would people who believe in the generic Christian God act the way they do?

100%

I don't think Romney is any more Mormon than Clinton is christian. Most people who identify themselves as being part of one religion haven't even read these books (the bible, torah, koran, etc.). They are this-or-that religion because that's what they were told when they were told they were as children, and they use these religious institutions primarily for socializing and for social support. The bible still lays out rules for slavery, wife-killing, etc. they haven't even changed that shit, it's just accepted that some of this stuff is complete B.S., but people still use words like "christian" and "mormon" to describe themselves, since it is a part of their family heritage.

should have their religious status made a campaign issue because of the beliefs in their holy book and the things that were once advocated by the major thinkers in or the leadership of their religion or religious denomination.

I just find it laughable (not that you're doing this in the OP, but I've seen it numerous times on here done by others) when people talk about how outrageous the things that Mormons believe are but give Christianity itself a pass or are Christians themselves. I'm sorry, if you have faith and it helps you through your life, gives you direction, etc, that's a positive thing. But there are plenty of things in Christianity that seem outrageous, unbelievable, shocking, ridiculous, etc., to those who don't hold Xian beliefs or haven't become accustomed to such ideas through growing up in a "Christian" culture. I just fail to see any dramatic differences between what is in the Muslim holy book and what is in the Old and New Testament, and the beliefs of Mormons vs. many Christian denominations on race differ very little; maybe there are small differences in the matter of decades when they stopped being openly bigoted, but really... that's not saying much.

If there is evidence that Romney is openly racist (and I've seen a story that would lead me to believe at least that he's not a particularly progressive guy on racial issues) that's something worth judging him on. That he is affiliated with a religious group that used to be openly racist or identified with racist beliefs is another thing altogether. Wouldn't that disqualify just about anyone running for office professing to be a member of a religious faith?

Women cannot hold the "priesthood" or the power to hold church office and administer blessings, etc.

At 12 all the good little boys are given the priesthood, and from then on, boys move up in rank, gaining more power and responsibility. Women receive nothing and are instructed to get married, and through marriage, they are bound to the priesthood.

I know that many Christian faith's are patriarchal, but mormons are extreme in theirs. ALL doctrine, instruction and beliefs are written by men.

Remember before 1964 the Democratic Party was the biggest supporter of Jim Crow Law in the United States. Before 1865 the Democratic Party was the biggest supporter of chattel slavery in the United States. Times change, attitudes change. Is the current position of the Mormon Church today, the same as 1978. That is the only issue that should be addressed as far as I am concerned.