It was BushChristians, not Christians, who beat up those Jewish couples for saying Happy Hanukkah.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/wire/newyork/ny-bc-ny--hanukkahattack1211dec11,0,1793775.story

It is unfortunate timing that this should come up now, especially since so many seem upset about the perceived anti-Christian attitudes here at DU.

Quite frankly, I am so angry about this I cannot see straight, but I am taking a deep breath so I can say this because it needs to be said before GD erupts in another flamewar.

To all the people who wish to bash Christianity in general for this, I would like to say that it was BushChristians.

BushChristians are NOT Christians. NOT. They are the opposite. They follow a man who may well be an AntiChrist, just as Revelation predicted they would (maybe prophesy, probably just a deep insight into human nature and the nature of evil that always seeks to cloak itself as Noble and Good).

They have turned Jesus' message upside-down, as one would expect from the disciples of Bushie Evil.

Blessed are the war makers for they shall make war...

In any case, before we all go flying off the handle about how awful Christianity is and how it caused this, let us pause to think who REALLY caused this.

Bushies with their trumped-up bullshit eliminationist, albsolutist, sounds-like-Nazi-propaganda Bill O'Reichley's War on Christmas. They have been stirring up hate on this topic (as usual, against an opponent which isn't really even there) for years now.

Now we are beginning to see some of the fruits of those malevolent efforts. Make believe the vast majority is being tyrannized by a tiny and powerless minority to work them into a froth against the tiny minority. Sound familiar? It SHOULD!

But I want to say this loud and clear: I do not blame Christianity itself, nor should anyone. I do not blame Christians, only BushChristians, and they are nothing like True Christians. Nothing at all.

In the name of peace and harmony. In the name of whatever God or Gods you believe in. In the name of simple human decency, let us remember that it was BushChristians that did this, and they are the exact opposite of True Christians.

Peace.

If you agree with this sentiment, please keep this K & R'd. It is something we DUers need to see as we trickle in and see what Bill O'Reilly's Kids did tonight and tomorrow. Many will want to lash out against Christians in general, please don't. I am not so egocentric to think I can stop this with a single thread, but it never hurts to try to mitigate it with some words of reason.

Peace.

"No good Scotsman" I believe.

And then they would point out that Hitler was a Christian.

Though being a Christian is about what you do, not what you say, mostly. You can say you're a Christian all you like, but if you're actions don't reflect it, it's easy to have doubts.

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

Let's not start a "reverse" flame war, either.

Hitler was a BushChristian, that should be obvious. That's why he and Prescott Bush were such good friends and why Prescott laundered Hitler's blood money for him.

One an Antichrist, the other the grandfather of an Antichrist. No WONDER they were such bosom chums.

what you said. I didn't mean it as a condemnation. I've been through the "Hitler was a Christian" argument several times, and the answer is often that this is an example of the "No true Scotsman" fallacy, and that Christians have no good answer for the fact that Hitler said he was a Christian. There are those who don't accept the answer "but a true Christian wouldn't act like that."

I agree with you, btw. There are progressive Christians on this board who would never act in the way that is described in the incident you're talking about. Just playing a bit of devil's advocate.

the state was the religion and there was the underlying cult of himmler`s ss...i just realized you are right..:thumbsup:

"Though being a Christian is about what you do, not what you say, mostly. You can say you're a Christian all you like, but if you're actions don't reflect it, it's easy to have doubts."

It's really to bad that many people profess to be good Christian's but act exactly the opposite of what that really means!

who never danced and didn't play cards and did all the things a good Baptist is supposed to do in public, but when at home beat his wife. I think his point was that we shouldn't fall into the trap of thinking we know what makes a "good" Christian.

support and vote for people who act and believe just the opposite of Jesus. It is amazing to me the blindness of people to the contradictions in their own behavior. These people would claim that Dick Cheney or Alberto Gonzalez is a better representative of the techings of Christ than Barack Obama or Dennis Kuchinich, this alone shows their total hypocrisy.

To differentiate between true Christians and not. Interesting

a good way to distinguish. I like the sentiment: "They're all cross, no Christ," too! Very clever, IanD!

unsuspecting people. It is part of the fundamentalist meme that they are under attack and in danger of some supernatural/terrorist/immigrant/enemy Other.

Yeah, there's a War on Christmas all right. :eyes:

i did`t see anything at all in this article saying they were or i`m missing another "i hate christians" post today . in fact the one guy was jew if the story of his mother being a jew is correct. since this guy attacked an black person and is being charged with a hate crime, i`d say he`s a neo-fasist/nazi or just a common street thug.

Sorry, but if they claim to be Christians, I have to take their word on it.

or Ann Coulter fans or dumb young thugs or maybe all of the above.

I don't even call myself an atheist - that implies actually subscribing to a movement, or philosophy or something.

And yet, I was raised as a Christian, was taught stuff in Sunday school that was pretty good. The whole love your neighbor and do unto others, suffer the little children message is great. I guess there may still be some pockets of people who still just get together to reinforce/reaffirm those teachings, rather than to plan how to take over the government.

I have no ill will toward those people. I do have ill will toward those who raise their children to suspend logic, to believe so literally in the supernatural that they are willing to accept almost any nonsense from any authority figure. As I do toward those who wish to take over the government and force their beliefs and practices on the populace.

What Christianity started out as, if some accounts are correct, was a sect who were peaceable and kind. Maybe something like the Amish today. Aside from the rather bizarre fixation on 19th century technology being ok but anything since being not ok, they seem to have a pretty good grasp on what Christianity is, or once was. The ensuing couple of thousand years, though, have brought us the crusades, the holocaust, the genocide against the Native Americans, the KKK, the skinheads, with "Onward Christian Soldiers" marching on, century after century. So it is not just "BushChristians" - it is a large segment of the population who cherry-pick bible passages to rationalize their bigoted, hateful ways. They were doing it long before bush, and they aren't going anywhere.

Many people have criticized mainstream, peace-loving Muslims for not speaking out more against those who co-opt that faith to further their bigoted, hateful ways. I feel the same about Christians.

I commend you for making your point, and hope you don't get flamed too much.

I like the way the company I retired from...or our office, anyway...handled holidays. Christmas, Hanukkah, Cinco de Mayo, Juneteenth, Kwanzaa...we all brought food and celebrated. The reason we celebrated was because we cared for each other, and all loved an excuse to bring food, and laugh.

Apparently, people take things much more seriously than we did back then. Nobody got offended, because even if it wasn't a holiday we were raised to celebrate, it did have meaning for our fellow workers, so we celebrated with them.

What they did was despicible and disgusting.

They'll never get into heaven that way.

(unless they say an act of contrition)

They were just a bunch of kids out robbing and jumping people on the train. Happens all the time. So the victims in this case happened to be Jews. That is incidental to their beating. What was essential was merely that they got in the path of this group.

To be clear: this had nothing to do with Christians, BushChristians, or Jews.

A bunch of kids got jumped by another bunch of kids. Period.

What's-in-it-for-me-Christians(who create...their own little REALITY, as they go along)

Bush's professed religion was and is, a propaganda tool, just like Hitler's was.

Who would Jesus "Just Bullshit?"

Who's "entitlements for the elderly" would Jesus end, so that he could pay for more weapons of mass murder and mayhem?

What little kid would Jesus let go uninsured to an early grave, so that the congress would have money to spend on still more deadly military hardware, from the likes Poppy's weapons making gun running pards.

What private secret Army would Jesus hire to invade your town in the midst of a disaster?

Who's job would Jesus export to China or India?

If Heaven ends up full of arrogant, perverted, nasty, selfish, lying, super-ego driven, fools, like bush and his GOPer enablers...Where will Jesus and Gawd move to?

If you dress a Wolf up to look just like the every day, garden variety, Lamb...that wolf will be in the door to all the other little lamb's houses, with very trouble or fuss. The lamb will gladly open the door himself, just about every time and the wolves can always count on easy pickings.

Would Jesus blow up frogs with firecrackers?...no but a serial wolf in sheep's clothing very well might.

"Trust the Wolf, just this once"...I'll pass on that plan, 24/7.(Myyyyyyy Rudy...what big teeth you have!)

EDIT...Caution...the sturgeon general warns, that the GOP brand, salvation flavored kool-aid, does contain mostly artificial coloring and flavoring, that could very likely be hazardous to the eternal preservation and well being of your very own soul.

Christians have had a pretty shitty history of anti-semitism over the last 2000 years that it's always safe to say that Christianity is to blame for stuff like this happening.

St Paul was a first class dickwheeze. John, too. What a cornholer. Not to mention that ignorant assmunch who thought that Daniel needed updating. Honestly, I wish we really did just have the Q-source with none of the pollution from the Signs Gospel or the Passion Narrative. Either that, or I wish that Thomas' crowd had won the great debate over the direction of Christianity, because Christ without the religion stuff really is a great guy. I hate it when people believe in supernatural crap. We're not 6 anymore you know.

Those who believe the basic principles of generosity and compassion
are fine with me. The Bible is not the word of God, but a compilation
of the writings of many people over a long period of time. Those who
take the parts that detail horrible punishment for various "crimes"
literally are not those enlightened ones who choose the more benevolent
parts of the dogma. It is unfair as well as downright incorrect to put
them all in one boat. There are "Christians" who believe it is their
God-given right to smash anyone who dares to espouse a different belief,
and for some of them, not much has changed since the Inquisition. But
there are others who believe God gives no one the right to smash anybody,
and that just because they believe what they believe, it doesn't mean that
others of other persuasions are in any way inferior. I have no quarrel at
all with those kind of Christians. I don't believe the same things they do,
but it's no skin off my back, as long as they are as cool with my beliefs as
I am with theirs.

I spend much of my time in Germany, and am married to a German. Believe me,
putting everyone in the same boat is not the way to look at any group of people.

...Christ himself would be ashamed to associate with them.

is like explaining the liberal nature of Christ to some of my more conservative Christian friends. So often I feel it it an exercise in futility on both accounts.

But I live for the breakthroughs. Many in our Bible study group have been in the anti Bush camp since 02-04 and this is in Houston Texas. And in private talk the anti-Christ label as applied to Bush has been discussed in much seriousness since his first 'election'. Oh-and we are Methodists....Bush's supposed religious choice. Not all lambs have fallen for the wolfs disguise.

As one of our members is fond of saying-christian is not supposed to be spelled s-t-u-p-i-d.

Maybe I'm missing something, but where in that article does it say that the kids who beat the four
were Christians?

It says that the attackers made anti-Semitic statements, etc., but nowhere do I see a statement that
says that they were Christians. They could have been Muslim, Hindi, Worshippers of Starbucks, etc....

:shrug:

Dumbasses are dumbasses......

and the subsequent reaction of the little bastards.

PS: You say heathens like it is a BAD word !!!!

I see this "...they were approached by a group of 10 people who offered holiday greetings."
It could have been "Merry Christmas", or "Merry Kwanzaa" or some Winter Solstice greeting.... don't
know, just saying.....

And as for the heathen part, I retract that (and will change the other post), in that I was meaning
the 'uncivilized or uncultured' interpretation, not the meaning dealing with the individual's
religious (or non-religious) beliefs.

I was just teasing about the Heathen part. As a pagan my friends and family often tease each other about being shameless heathens... I wasn't really offended by your sentence or anything. I have to start using emoticons more!

...what can I say?

Those people were Christians just as much as Luther or Father Coughlin or the Pope or Fred Phelps or Dorothy Day or Jesse Jackson or Jeffrey Dahmer are or were Christians.

fundie Christian territory.

Shitheels by any other name would smell as rank.

I can't imagine what was going through the victims' heads as it was happening. Horrible. I hope those predatory bullies get their asses handed to them in court and go to jail for a really long time.