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Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (1/22-2007 thru 12/14/2010) Donate to DU
 
Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 10:14 AM
Original message
The problems of today are built on the mistakes of yesterday
There has been a lot of anger here over recent weeks concerning the actions, or lack of them, of our Representatives. A couple of years ago I posted here more regularly and I tried to explain this to people but I don't think most were ready for it at the time. Maybe they are now so I'll try to draw a few connections here.

If it wasn't for the compromises for drug war exceptions to the Constitution we might not be so comfortable with exceptions to the Constitution today, but we allowed exceptions for searches and all kinds of things in the name of going after some faceless "them". Them of course turned out to be our kids and neighbors in many cases. If it wasn't for our getting so used to exceptions then they might not have been so easy to get away with today, but we allowed compromise as long as it was "for a good cause". Also got us into that us vs them frame of mind some have found so useful in other respects today.

When we built a massive for profit prison and drug testing industry we started down the road into invasive procedures that violated both personal privacy and pushed the limits on self incrimination. That was ok though, it was for a good cause we thought. And so we took another step toward exceptions and an invasive society.

When we created the safe school zones with tough mandatory minimums it all sounded like a great idea, at least until we put it into practice. But we never looked at the results much, did we? In the suburbs a kid doesn't spend much time in one so unless they do or deal drugs at school it's no big deal, in the city they can overlap and in some places you might spend most of your life in one and not even realize it some of the time. Probation, treatment and other options are there in the suburbs for an identical crime to the one which triggers that mandatory in the city. Too often it's not the worse crime, but the wrong place to have been born and raised. It's there but we didn't look.

When we failed to look at those results we created this racial balance. Everyone knows about Florida and the elections of 2000 but that isn't the only time disenfranchised voters mattered. In custody you don't get a vote, in many places you don't get a vote for years or even life after you've served your time which means that between current and past voters removed from the roles we've been losing close elections we could have otherwise won for years now, and nationwide. The decline of the party is at least in part related to their willingness to allow things like this to happen to others.

When we allowed that private prison industry to be built, when we learned to tolerate no knock warrants and a growing armed private security industry, when we cried tough on crime for enough years that everyone got used to the idea of force as an option we were building the environment for today. In the 60's could we have tolerated a Blackwater? I don't think so, not on the left or on much of the right. But with the background of force we've become so used to for many people they are just another security firm and it's hard to get them to understand what's wrong. At least until the abuses became apparent it was, not so hard these days.

The joke of it all? It was for nothing, absolutely nothing positive. And we've had the results to know that for years, it's some combination of pure cowardice or an unwillingness to even look at the results and nothing more that props it all up. The prices of cocaine and http://www.briancbennett.com/charts/fed-data/heroin-prices.htm">heroin have both fallen by quite a bit adjusted for inflation, contrary to popular opinion we never drove prices up. Death rates on both have climbed, from the 0.2-0.1 range in 1979-1980 to a death rate of 1.1 by 1998 for opiates, heroin mostly, and from the 0.1-0.0 range in 1979-1980 to a death rate of 0.7 by 1998 with cocaine. Purity on heroin climbed from about 8% in the 1 gram street level range to roughly 40%, that likely contributes to the climb in death rates. We haven't saved any lives, we've lost them. We didn't drive prices up, they fell. We didn't hurt any enemy over the years in any way that mattered, for every cartel we removed another one or two was right there to replace it and at least as dangerous as the last.

Sound familiar? Kind of like the war on terror? They've always been related as we see in Afghanistan today and are based on most of the same principles and tactics.

Today isn't an accident people. We've been walked into this step by step and over the years, the drug war being my area is where I see it but it's been happening on a lot of fronts such as the Buckley v. Valeo Supreme Court decision in 1976, better known as money equals speech. That's the wall we run into for everything from controlling corporate expansion to campaign finance reform to whatever else, I'm sure many of you have examples of your own for that example or others. Step by step and on multiple fronts we've been walked into it over the years and in too many cases such as with the drug war and with NAFTA with more than a little help from the Democratic leadership.

I don't want this to degenerate into blame or who is responsible for what, I do want us to take a look at the damned results for a change and decide it's time NOW to do something different and we can't do that while attacking each other. But we're going to bleed to death as a nation in the name of party or personal loyalty if we don't find a way to either convince our leaders to stand for something and check the results for a change or if we don't replace them. We're running out of time for the niceties of politics and compromise as usual. That's the way I see it at least.
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 11:18 AM
Response to Original message
1. Sank like a stone :)
Oh well, too soon or poorly said, one or the other I guess. I'll leave you all be on the topic then, let it scroll off and die.

I do hope some think about it at least. It's always easy to argue that we've got to make these deals to get elected, or to trade a little good for a little bad, and on a case by case basis those arguments sound pretty good. In the long term they don't seem to be working out so well, too many compromises have been made which shouldn't have been, even if we realized it only in hindsight. We could at least fix those now that we do know. Been some moves on the crack/powder cocaine discrepancy in sentencing in the courts and the sentencing commission but last I heard it was stalled for lack of interest or action in the House.

I'm really worried by what I see today, the element of compromise and concern with keeping their powder dry or whatever euphemism we want to use these days. I think that's what lead us from the 60's to where we are now and I worry about what we'll look like in anther 20 or 30 years if we don't find a way to stop. Tomorrows problems will be built on the mistakes of today just as todays were the result of yesterdays.

Later :grouphug:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 11:20 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. It's difficult to post serious discussions on the GD...
It moves too quickly.
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Richard Steele Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #1
13. Bobbing back to the surface quite nicely. recommended
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 05:55 PM
Response to Reply #1
18. Thank you for your thoughtful OP
I still post at DU due to folks like you.
Glad to keep this up and atom!
Peace and low stress to you and yours and please keep posting here!
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ayeshahaqqiqa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 12:38 PM
Response to Original message
3. Kicking and recommending
I'm at work and can only browse--have to answer phones to earn my pay. But I think you are right about this. Thanks for posting about this on kentuck's thread so I could find it. Hope many more do.
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unhappycamper Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 02:38 PM
Response to Original message
4. k&r n/t
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JFN1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 02:40 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well said!
Glad to K&R this post!!
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porphyrian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 02:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. My representatives work harder for republican interests than for mine.
Because of it, my primary vote won't count now. If I can't even get them to respect my vote, I don't think I can get them to challenge the status quo, even with facts and visual aids.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 02:57 PM
Response to Original message
7. Wanna know what this boils down to?
"It doesn't affect me, so I don't care."

The powers that be are pushing at an absurd rate to see if there is a point when we'll take to the streets...and IMO, that point won't come. The outrage just isn't there.

It's discouraging to me, because it tells me most people don't have principles, and don't see the point of them. Kidnapped child? "Poor them." Torture victim of ours? "I can't believe we did that! My nation doesn't do that!" Innocent person in jail? "They must have committed SOME crime!"

Action from said people...*crickets*
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Lilith Velkor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 04:18 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. It's not that they did nothing
They drank beer and watched COPS.

History will judge us very harshly for this.
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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
16. History will always be kinder than the reality
Our "civilization" is a sham...but history will say that it was "somewhat civilized."
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druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 03:05 PM
Response to Original message
8. where've you been?
We've been needing a voice such as yours around here lately. One to bring us off the incredibly petty nature of Primaries at DU. I couldn't agree more with your assessment. Unfortunately, i believe some radical changes are in order. The MIC (which i believe is part and parcel to the PIC) is as strong as it ever will be and it will take nigh a mighty effort to break its hold on world domination.

More people were imprisoned for possession of MJ this year than for all violent crimes put together. That doesn't seem fair to me. It's a plant fer chrissakes...

Mandatory Minimums are a travesty of justice every fucking time...

This needs work people! Who's going to change this system for the better? Kucinich? Edwards? Clinton?

Has any candidate taken a position on non-violent drug offenses and/or mandatory minimums?

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TomInTib Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 03:27 PM
Response to Original message
9. Excellent KnR
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gateley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 03:40 PM
Response to Original message
10. K&R!
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Bongo Prophet Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 04:28 PM
Response to Original message
12. Excellent post, Asgaya. I am so glad you are here at DU
I missed this originally, as I cannot spend too much time on DU.
You can thank Mythsaje for linking to it.

Your point about this war on consciousness sending us on the downward spiral of human and constitutional rights abuses really gets to the heart of the matter.

:thumbsup:
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #12
20. I have, but twice never hurts
Since you mention it Mythsaje was kind enough to mention the post in the one he started, here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=389&topic_id=2499032&mesg_id=2499032

I'm sure that helped the cause and I do appreciate it.
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DCKit Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 04:31 PM
Response to Original message
14. You forgot to mention that the War on Drugs is a two-fer...
The drug scourge of the 80's was engineered to prime the citizenry for the implementation of the draconian legal measures that followed. The WH and MSM were complicit. The ATF, FBI, several other government agencies, the Private Corporate Prison companies and the entire legal system were all huge winners in the implementation of both the increased import and the laws engineered to increase enforcement as well as the incarceration rate.

The importation of drugs, especially cocaine and heroin, has been linked to the CIA and government contractors since the mid-80's. So much and so long, in fact, that it has gone from being CT territory to becoming a widely accepted fact. Iran-Contra should have resulted in impeachments and prison terms for the executive branch, the military personnel involved, several administration officials and many, many government contractors. Unfortunately, the drug leg of the arms/drugs/cash golden triangle was politely ignored by Congress and the MSM due to the popularity of St. Ronnie and the complicity of those who benefited from the flow of cash and influence which trickled down. While the trade has definitely slowed, it has not ended. It is unAmerican, illegal and immoral. It is NOT who we are.

CorpAmerica owns the WH and much of Congress, the War on Drugs is an ongoing stain on American and Constitutional values and that same formula has been ramped up and applied to "Teh War on Terra" and is further eroding our Constitutional rights. We are once again faced with the choice of taking back our country and Constitution or living in an increasingly fascist state. The upcoming election, resulting in the installation of a majority, non-corporate, Democratic Congress is vital if we are to ever regain our status as the "Shining Light of Democracy" in the world community. It may even take two election cycles, but a clear message in the next election is necessary if we are to get back on track.

Check the voting records of your Congress persons and Senators, but also, look closely at who's funding their campaigns. Know that the oil companies are only interested in profit at our expense, that the insurance industry makes more money by denying claims and allowing people to die, go homeless or live with disabilities and that the drug companies are making record profits because they wrote the new Medicare drug policies to harm, rather than help, the elderly and disabled. If you need to get angry at corporate control of the political system, watch "Who Killed the Electric Car" and "Sicko".

This Presidential election is of great importance to all Americans, but it's not the only game in town if we are to restore our Constitution and the America we were each taught to believe in while growing up. Civics and government have been de-emphasized in the educational system so we can't count on the current upcoming generation to get it right. We have to lead by example and restore the America we know we deserve.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 04:55 PM
Response to Original message
15. kick
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lildreamer316 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 05:51 PM
Response to Original message
17. BOOKMARKED, Rec, and KICK!!! THANK you. n/t
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flashl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 06:04 PM
Response to Original message
19. K&R
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Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 10:49 PM
Response to Original message
21. Good read!
Thank you
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Captain Angry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Dec-19-07 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
22. Interesting post, thank you.

Every so often, somebody needs to connect the dots for the younger folks.

Good stuff.
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Mythsaje Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 12:50 AM
Response to Original message
23. Error: You already recommended that thread.
Ah, well. I'll give it a kick, anyway.
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eridani Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 01:30 AM
Response to Original message
24. Kucinich is unequivocally AGAINST the War on Some Drugs
You want this issue raised? Then support him in the primaries.
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 03:13 AM
Response to Original message
25. That's very powerful stuff
Thanks for trying again. Looks like the second time did better.
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Asgaya Dihi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 05:06 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Thanks to you and everyone else for the comments
I do appreciate it, this is an issue which I've worked on for years and though awareness seems to be rising I also worry that time might be running short. We've got technologies developing over the next couple or few decades which if improperly used could make resistance that much harder and control a hell of a lot easier. Combine that with our natural tendency to get used to things over time, assume things are supposed to be like this, and I think it's a real concern. If we don't try to rebuild the nation we wanted to be and do it soon we could end up losing it for good.
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Laelth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
27. Nicely said. K&R.
n/t

:patriot:

-Laelth
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lunatica Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 09:22 AM
Response to Original message
28. When you make small compromises to your basic principles
You've already started down the path of corruption. It's the same as being "a little pregnant". And unfortunately it's also the essence of being a politician. They call it bi-partisanship compromise. It's just that it shouldn't be the choice of any party to stand for anything that's un-Constitutional and un-American.

I've been of the same mind as you for at least a decade, and especially since Tom Daschle started compromising after he received anthrax in the mail.
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fascisthunter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:19 AM
Response to Reply #28
29. And It's Easy Cover for Infiltrants
"compromise"

Example: Lieberman
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 11:20 AM
Response to Original message
30. Argh. Another too late to rec. - kick
:kick:
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Uncle Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Dec-20-07 03:07 PM
Response to Original message
31. Kicked, too late to recommend.
Thanks for the thread, Asgaya Dihi.
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mdmc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Dec-23-07 10:38 PM
Response to Original message
32. kick
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